The Transforming Power of Constant Surprise: Further Up and Further In

Dr. Iain McGilchrist and Dr. Chris E W Green join The Meaning Code to speak of the way back from our current wandering in the wilderness. Introductions to the two follow the timestamps, which regrettably only cover the first hour. If anyone wants to add the second hour, go for it. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 01:00 Reflections on Spirituality and Hope 01:25 Iain McGilchrist reads poem by Hermes Trismegistus 06:37 The impact of Reductionism on Art and Experience 13:16 The interplay of Death, Life and Storytelling 19:01 The danger of grasping mode in human experience 31:40 The nature of understanding and intelligence 36:09 The temptation to turn resistances into tools for personal gain 40:30 The importance of making space for growth 45:00 Opposites and Dark Sides - George MacDonald 49:04 The importance of acknowledging darkness for health and society 52:50 Rituals and Henri de Lubac 56:00 Sentimentality is cruelty Iain McGilchrist is a former Fellow of All Souls College, Oxford, an associate Fellow of Green Templeton College, Oxford, a Fellow of the Royal College of Psychiatrists, a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts, a Consultant Emeritus of the Bethlem and Maudsley Hospital, London, a former research Fellow in Neuroimaging at Johns Hopkins University Medical School, Baltimore, and a former Fellow of the Institute of Advanced Studies in Stellenbosch. His books include Against Criticism (Faber), The Master and his Emissary: The Divided Brain and the Making of the Western World (Yale UP), The Divided Brain and the Search for Meaning; Why Are We So Unhappy? (Yale UP), and Ways of Attending (Routledge). Chris E W Green Chris Green is Professor of Public Theology at Southeastern University (Lakeland, FL) and Director for St Anthony Institute of Theology, Philosophy, and Liturgics. He is the author and editor of a number of books, popular and scholarly, including most recently All Things Beautiful: An Aesthetic Christology (Baylor University Press), the first volume of a forthcoming trilogy.

Grey Hamilton, a 28 year old husband and father, joins Karen to discuss relationships, education and the impact of societal changes on family and community dynamics.

Cassidy joins the Meaning Code to talk about the excitement around the upcoming Breakwater Festival in Culemborg, The Netherlands from November 7-9, 2025She also fills us in on past conferences, and what to expect at this one.For more information:Breakwater Festival Culemborg, The Netherlands: November 7-9 2025Crowdfunding/Pre-sale ticket link: https://igg.me/at/BackingBreakwaterBreakwater Email: [email protected]

Rick Walker, Entrepreneur, Podcast Host and Author joins The Meaning Code to discuss his new book, 9 Steps to Build a Life of Meaning, (endorsed by both John Vervaeke and Paul VanderKlay) which tells the hard fought lessons he has learned through trauma, loss and building multiple businesses while doing his best as a husband and father. Book Link: https://a.co/d/6fjDRXr Rick Walker website: https://rickwalker.com Rick Walker Podcast, also available on pod bean, Spotify and YouTube https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rick-walker-podcast/id1667818152

Chris Green is Professor of Public Theology at Southeastern University (Lakeland, FL), Bishop of the Diocese of St Anthony (CEEC), and Director for St Anthony Institute of Theology, Philosophy, and Liturgics. He is the author and editor of a number of books, including most recently All Things Beautiful: An Aesthetic Christology. (cewgreen.com) Discussion topics: Theological Concepts of Creation and Christology Dynamics of Optimization and Context in Natural Selection Metaphors in Music and Existence Creation, Causation, and Beauty Relationship between over-identification and under-identification Causation and Recognition in Conversations Biology and Regeneration Order, Chaos, and Harmonics The integration of chaos and order in the context of existence.
Dynamics of Creativity and Order in Relationships Exploring Play, Wisdom, and Creativity Anticipation is a key element that makes play enjoyable The role of play and creativity in understanding theological concepts. The significance of anticipation versus prediction in theological discussions.

Intersection of AI, Language, and Psychology The hardware and software distinction in language processing. Programming languages build layers of abstraction that relate to human cognition. The Creative Process: Hardware vs. Software Creative process in painting, compared to coding, highlighting the need to transform abstract ideas into tangible forms. This iterative process is similar to scientific investigation and everyday decision-making. The Hardware-Software Distinction in Perception Parallels between cognitive processing and art therapy. Individuals can become stuck in cognitive patterns and the need for therapy to help them navigate different cognitive zones. James Gibson's theories on perception, highlighting the direct relationship between reality and our perception of it. The relationship between art processes and cognitive functions. The relationship between AI and human experience, emphasizing that AI operates on a condensed version of human knowledge. AI lacks the direct, ecological experiences that humans have not only because of their embodiment but because of their life experiences. The Linguistic System and Its Underlying Structure Karen elaborates on the relationship between language and a foundational scaffold of reality, suggesting that both are governed by dynamic principles that allow for complexity and meaning. highlighting the limitations inherent in linguistic systems, such as the specific combinations of letters and words that can form coherent phrases and sentences. Exploring the Scaffold of Reality in Art and Harmony Reality as a dynamic net that fosters creativity, contrasting it with static boundaries. Principles such as harmony and balance play a crucial role in shaping experiences. Personal Growth Through Physical and Emotional Engagement Societal perceptions have limited personal growth, comparing it to children on a playground who don't realize their potential. Rafe Kelly's work in parkour as a means to help individuals connect with their physical abilities and emotional experiences. This engagement can lead to significant personal development and a deeper understanding of one's limits and capabilities. Measurement plays a crucial role at the Intersection of Hardware, Software, and Ecological Perception

Michael and Karen consider the theories of Elan Barenholtz, an Associate Professor of Psychology at Florida Atlantic University. His self-description: "I use behavioral and embedded computational approaches (i.e. neural networks running in robots) to study the brain and behavior with the goal of developing a broad theoretical framework of neural function." The videos that Michael and Karen were discussing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca_RbPXraDE with Curt Jaimungal, Elan Barenholtz and William Hahn positing a radical theory of human language generation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1q6Hhz0MAg with Kenneth Stanley who used to be at Open AI talking about an earlier method of AI research through Picbreeder Karen ends the episode by reading from C S Lewis' essay on Transposition focusing on the necessity of a higher.

Exploring Story Craft and the Intersection of Faith and Hollywood with Justin Wells, filmmaker of documentaries, professor teaching documentary and story craft. On X as @onejwells https://www.youtube.com/@justinsmorningcoffee Seeing Story Structure through the lens of Complexity Theory Justin elaborates on the five-act structure of storytelling, emphasizing the importance of updating a character's mental map as they navigate challenges. He connects this process to complexity theory, outlining the journey from order to chaos and back to harmony. Apparently, Sean Coyne and John Verveke are working on a book titled "Story Principia," which will delve into these concepts. The importance of mental models in understanding character development. The development of a five-act structure for storytelling. Understanding the Journey from Law to Chaos in Storytelling The transition from a procedural phase, where rules are strictly followed, to a chaotic phase in storytelling when everything goes wrong. He uses the analogy of teaching a child a game to illustrate the importance of learning and applying the rules before questioning them. Exploring Creativity Through Chaos Creativity is rooted in chaos, citing research that shows how epiphanies occur when individuals abandon conventional thinking, leading to breakthroughs. Chaos and Creativity in Storytelling Justin emphasizes the importance of chaos in the creative process, suggesting that characters in the New Testament often experience a shift in perspective that challenges their expectations. He notes that this pattern of death and resurrection is essential for learning and creativity. The Stages of Learning and Knowing Outlining four types of knowing, including propositional, procedural, perspectival and participatory knowledge, he describes the procedural stage as a time of obedience and practice, akin to boot camp, before moving into a more fluid, participatory stage where one can innovate and adapt.

Matthew Allison discusses the metaphysical and theological implications of infinity plus the influence of dualism and Gnosticism on philosophical discussions. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:30 Matthew on the Infinite 06:00 Heidegger 06:55 Wittgenstein 08:00 The significance of chiasms in biblical texts and how they reflect divine inspiration 14:00 Phenomenology 22:00 Reflections on Hebrews chapter 11, focusing on the theme of faith and the biblical figures who endured suffering without receiving God's promises. 30:00 The Nature of time and relationship 34:00 Methodological a priori and its implications 43:00 Contrasting Maximus's approach with that of Neoplatonists, pointing out that while he engaged with their ideas, he did not adopt their analytic framework. This distinction is significant for scholars studying the intersection of philosophy and religion. 46:00 Exploring Ontology and Methodology in human experience 53:00 The connections between choreography and spirituality in community 59:00 Square dance and its potential relationship to experiential dna

Karen and Haris explore Julian Barbour's theory of time and the universe, "nothing without ratios" while discussing the role of ratios in both mathematical theories and artistic expression.