The cult.ture podcast

What happens when the place you were taught was safe becomes a place you need to leave? In Episode 45, Derek welcomes Shaina to share her story, with Abby returning from Episode 20 as guest co-host. Raised in a devoted Jehovah’s Witness family, Shaina grew up under constant pressure to be exemplary. Baptized at 13 and married at 19, she describes how her hopes for a life of faith and belonging collided with an abusive marriage and how seeking help left her feeling even more alone. Shaina opens up about the experiences that pushed her toward leaving, the fear of Armageddon that followed her for decades, and how becoming a mother changed the way she understood her own childhood. Together, she, Derek, and Abby explore religious trauma, the grief of missing people you once felt close to, and the challenge of building connections after leaving a high-control religion. There’s humor here, too from denim skirts to “dinosaur violence” alongside an honest conversation about finding your voice and discovering that the world outside holds more goodness than you were taught to expect. Books, Films & Resources Mentioned Combating Cult Mind Control — Steven Hassan: Discussed alongside the BITE Model and recognizing patterns of control. Find on Amazon Religulous — documentary featuring Bill Maher: The film Shaina describes watching as she began questioning her religious beliefs. Find on Amazon Jurassic Park: The source of the episode’s “dinosaur violence” conversation. Find on Amazon Mary Poppins: Mentioned during the discussion about inconsistent entertainment rules. Find on Amazon Mary Poppins Returns: The sequel Derek recalls seeing with other Witnesses. Find on Amazon Star Wars: Discussed in connection with restrictions around the Force. Find on Amazon The Lord of the Rings: Mentioned during the conversation about fantasy and magic. Find on Amazon Harry Potter: Also referenced in the discussion about entertainment restrictions. Find on Amazon Podcasts & Online Resources Shunned Podcast — Shaina describes finding the podcast through resources shared by her therapist. Millstone Research on YouTube — Videos Shaina mentions while discussing her changing understanding of the organization. Ex-Jehovah’s Witness Reddit community — The community she found while searching for others experiencing Armageddon fears.   Support cult.ture pod over on Patreon Follow us on Instagram and TikTok thanks for rating us 5 stars 🫶   Disclaimer: The views and experiences shared on cult.ture are personal and based on the lived experiences of the hosts and guests. This podcast is not intended to attack or defame any individual or religious organization or provide therapy. Our aim is to foster honest, empathetic conversations about high-control environments, belief systems, and personal journeys including the long road of healing, questioning, and reclaiming identity. Please be advised that some episodes may contain content that touches on religious trauma, coercive control, emotional or physical abuse, or other potentially triggering topics. We strive to approach these conversations with care, but we acknowledge that certain themes may be difficult to hear. Listener discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is experiencing distress related to these topics, we encourage seeking support from qualified mental health professionals, spiritual trauma-informed therapists, or trusted recovery communities. You are not alone.  

Carlos Castaneda promised a different reality. What happened to the people who believed him? Writer and artist Ru Marshall joins Derek to discuss American Trickster: The Hidden Lives of Carlos Castaneda, the result of nearly two decades spent investigating one of the counterculture’s most influential and controversial figures. From The Teachings of Don Juan to the secretive inner circle that formed around its author, we explore how Castaneda built his mythology and how academic credibility, compelling storytelling, and the desire to believe helped sustain it. Marshall discusses the women known as his “witches,” the promises behind his Tensegrity movement practice, and the troubling disappearance of five women following his death. Along the way, we examine the disputed origins of his teachings, his influence on popular culture, and how the promise of spiritual freedom can become a means of control. A conversation about charisma, deception, and the difficult work of questioning the stories we want to be true. Connect with Ru Marshall rmarshallstudio.com Instagram Amazon   Books, films, and music from the conversation A Separate Reality: A Novel — Ru Marshall The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge — Carlos Castaneda Amy Wallace’s memoir, Sorcerer’s Apprentice: My Life with Carlos Castaneda Fitzcarraldo — film Don Juan’s Reckless Daughter — Joni Mitchell Joyce Carol Oates * James Frey * Harold Garfinkel * Walter Goldschmidt * Timothy Leary * Bob Dylan Lobsang Rampa * Helena Blavatsky * Neville Goddard * Richard de Mille  * John Lennon Federico Fellini * Friedrich Nietzsche * Max Weber   Support cult.ture pod over on Patreon Follow us on Instagram and TikTok thanks for rating us 5 stars 🫶 Disclaimer: The views and experiences shared on cult.ture are personal and based on the lived experiences of the hosts and guests. This podcast is not intended to attack or defame any individual or religious organization or provide therapy. Our aim is to foster honest, empathetic conversations about high-control environments, belief systems, and personal journeys including the long road of healing, questioning, and reclaiming identity. Please be advised that some episodes may contain content that touches on religious trauma, coercive control, emotional or physical abuse, or other potentially triggering topics. We strive to approach these conversations with care, but we acknowledge that certain themes may be difficult to hear. Listener discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is experiencing distress related to these topics, we encourage seeking support from qualified mental health professionals, spiritual trauma-informed therapists, or trusted recovery communities. You are not alone.  

What happens when the people who teach you about love make that love conditional? In this episode of the cult.ture podcast, Derek sits down with Terry Wayne Carpenter, a former Jehovah’s Witness, artist, novelist, and former sports journalist, to explore his journey through religious control, family estrangement, and rebuilding a life on his own terms. Terry shares his experiences with judicial committees as a teenager, the lasting impact of shunning, and how becoming a father changed his understanding of unconditional love. We discuss how high-control groups use language to shape reality and how storytelling can help us reclaim our identities. We also explore his debut novel, The Basket Weaver, a story of young love set in the Arkansas Ozarks in 1975. Drawing on experiences familiar to many former Jehovah’s Witnesses, Terry explains why he chose fiction over memoir and why he wanted to write a story that leaves room for hope. An honest conversation about belonging, boundaries, creativity, and finding peace after leaving a world that once defined everything.   Connect with Terry TerryWayneCarpenter.com Instagram: @theterrywayne Where to find The Basket Weaver Amazon Barnes & Noble Walmart   Tattered Cover, Denver Book Society,  Goodreads  Books referenced — Amazon links The Basket Weaver — Terry Wayne Carpenter Uncultured: A Memoir — Daniella Mestyanek Young 1984 — George Orwell Crisis of Conscience — Raymond Franz Infinite Jest — David Foster Wallace Gravity’s Rainbow — Thomas Pynchon Underworld — Don DeLillo The Autumn of the Patriarch — Gabriel García Márquez The Four Loves — C. S. Lewis   Religious texts and publications mentioned New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures The Quran, mentioned briefly. The Watchtower and Awake!, including bound volumes. Film and other screen references The Children Act — Amazon. This is likely the unnamed film Terry describes involving Stanley Tucci, a court case, and a blood transfusion. Fallout — Amazon. A television series referenced during the discussion about leaving a sheltered environment. Kintsugi — an anime project by Sean Miller, mentioned in the conversation.   Support cult.ture pod over on Patreon Follow us on Instagram and TikTok thanks for rating us 5 stars 🫶     Disclaimer: The views and experiences shared on cult.ture are personal and based on the lived experiences of the hosts and guests. This podcast is not intended to attack or defame any individual or religious organization or provide therapy. Our aim is to foster honest, empathetic conversations about high-control environments, belief systems, and personal journeys including the long road of healing, questioning, and reclaiming identity. Please be advised that some episodes may contain content that touches on religious trauma, coercive control, emotional or physical abuse, or other potentially triggering topics. We strive to approach these conversations with care, but we acknowledge that certain themes may be difficult to hear. Listener discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is experiencing distress related to these topics, we encourage seeking support from qualified mental health professionals, spiritual trauma-informed therapists, or trusted recovery communities. You are not alone.  

What happens when you leave a high-control religion—but keep living by the rules it taught you? This week, I’m joined by Melissa Duge Spiers, author of Holy Disobedience, for an honest conversation about growing up as a fourth-generation Seventh-day Adventist, leaving at 18, and realizing decades later how much of that upbringing she still carried. We compare notes from our Adventist and Jehovah’s Witness childhoods: end-times fear, strict rules, purity culture, and learning to obey before learning to trust yourself. Melissa opens up about painful family secrets, her account of her father’s abuse, and how she sees the conditioning of her childhood reflected in her adult relationships. We also talk about speaking out, finding community, and making peace with the possibility that the people who hurt you may never give you the answers you need. There’s humor, some hard truths, and a reminder that leaving can be the beginning of the work.   Connect with Melissa Duge Spiers Book: HOLY DISOBEDIENCE: Sex, Sin, and Secrets in the Biggest Church No One Knows ExSDA TikTok: @the.glory.whole ExSDA Instagram: @the.glory.whole Personal Instagram: @melissadugespiers_writer   Support cult.ture pod over on Patreon Follow us on Instagram and TikTok thanks for rating us 5 stars 🫶   Disclaimer: The views and experiences shared on cult.ture are personal and based on the lived experiences of the hosts and guests. This podcast is not intended to attack or defame any individual or religious organization or provide therapy. Our aim is to foster honest, empathetic conversations about high-control environments, belief systems, and personal journeys including the long road of healing, questioning, and reclaiming identity. Please be advised that some episodes may contain content that touches on religious trauma, coercive control, emotional or physical abuse, or other potentially triggering topics. We strive to approach these conversations with care, but we acknowledge that certain themes may be difficult to hear. Listener discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is experiencing distress related to these topics, we encourage seeking support from qualified mental health professionals, spiritual trauma-informed therapists, or trusted recovery communities. You are not alone.        

Leaving a high-control religion may end your participation but it doesn’t immediately undo the identity, fear, shame, and expectations it placed inside you. In this episode of the cult.ture podcast, Derek sits down with Audra Phelps, a former Mormon and coach who helps women, particularly mothers, rebuild their lives after leaving the LDS Church. Raised in a strict Mormon household, Audra grew up with a prescribed identity and a clear roadmap for what it meant to be a faithful woman, wife, and mother. After more than a decade of questioning, international travel gave her the physical and emotional distance to see her religious upbringing differently. In 2015, a church policy affecting LGBTQ+ families became her breaking point. She removed her temple garments, looked at herself in the mirror, and said the words she had struggled for years to say: “I am not Mormon.” Audra and Derek discuss the difference between leaving and recovering, grieving without regretting your decision, rebuilding trust in yourself, setting boundaries, navigating marriage, and learning to parent without relying on an external religious authority. They also explore what it means to break generational cycles and change the emotional inheritance passed down to your children. SPECIAL OFFER FOR CULT.TURE LISTENERS Audra is offering podcast listeners 50% off their first individual coaching session. This offer is open to any woman navigating a faith transition after leaving a high-control organization—not only former Mormons. Learn more about one-on-one coaching and book a free consultation with Audra: https://mamaaudra.com/oneonone Mention “PODCAST” during your consultation to receive the discount.     Support cult.ture pod over on Patreon Follow us on Instagram and TikTok thanks for rating us 5 stars 🫶     Disclaimer: The views and experiences shared on cult.ture are personal and based on the lived experiences of the hosts and guests. This podcast is not intended to attack or defame any individual or religious organization or provide therapy. Our aim is to foster honest, empathetic conversations about high-control environments, belief systems, and personal journeys including the long road of healing, questioning, and reclaiming identity. Please be advised that some episodes may contain content that touches on religious trauma, coercive control, emotional or physical abuse, or other potentially triggering topics. We strive to approach these conversations with care, but we acknowledge that certain themes may be difficult to hear. Listener discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is experiencing distress related to these topics, we encourage seeking support from qualified mental health professionals, spiritual trauma-informed therapists, or trusted recovery communities. You are not alone.  

This is a different conversation... Devin Fish spent much of his life hiding what he was carrying. Raised amid poverty, instability, addiction, and repeated moves, Devin entered the U.S. Army looking for direction. Over nearly a decade of service as both a cavalry scout and career counselor he learned resilience, but he also absorbed the belief that asking for help was a sign of weakness. Behind that armor were the death of his mother, unresolved family trauma, isolation, online exploitation, blackmail, and a mental health crisis that ultimately brought him to the hospital. In this episode of cult.ture, Devin joins Derek and Trent to discuss the experiences behind his book, Answering the Hard Questions: Let It Be the End of a Chapter, Not the End of the Book. Together, they explore military culture, masculinity, coercive online tactics, parental addiction, grief, faith, self-hatred, and what can happen when someone finally allows others to see what they have been hiding. Devin’s story is a reminder that asking for help is not weakness and that the hardest chapter of your life does not have to become the end of your story. Follow Devin on Facebook Buy Answering the Hard Questions: Let It Be the End of a Chapter, Not the End of the Book on Amazon   Support cult.ture pod over on Patreon Follow us on Instagram and TikTok thanks for rating us 5 stars 🫶     Disclaimer: The views and experiences shared on cult.ture are personal and based on the lived experiences of the hosts and guests. This podcast is not intended to attack or defame any individual or religious organization or provide therapy. Our aim is to foster honest, empathetic conversations about high-control environments, belief systems, and personal journeys including the long road of healing, questioning, and reclaiming identity. Please be advised that some episodes may contain content that touches on religious trauma, coercive control, emotional or physical abuse, or other potentially triggering topics. We strive to approach these conversations with care, but we acknowledge that certain themes may be difficult to hear. Listener discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is experiencing distress related to these topics, we encourage seeking support from qualified mental health professionals, spiritual trauma-informed therapists, or trusted recovery communities. You are not alone.  

Bri grew up homeschooled in a conservative Christian family before becoming deeply involved with the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP), the fundamentalist organization founded by Bill Gothard and closely associated with the Duggar family. She believed in the teachings enough that, as an adult, she planned to bring IBLP into her own family. Then she became a mother. When Bri attempted “blanket training” with her infant son, a practice she says was intended to teach blind obedience, her instinct was to comfort him when he cried. That instinct led to a question that changed everything: Why should comforting her own crying baby be considered breaking the rules? Bri joins cult.ture to talk about growing up sheltered, homeschooling, the Duggar family's influence, Bill Gothard, IBLP's “umbrella of authority,” gender hierarchy, obedience, parenting, and the process of beginning to question a worldview she once fully believed. We also explore the anger and discovery that followed as Bri began researching the people and institutions she had been taught to trust, and how she is now raising her own children with more freedom to question, explore, and decide what they believe for themselves. It's a conversation about control disguised as protection, the moment instinct collided with indoctrination, and what it can mean to break a cycle.   Follow Bri here   Support cult.ture pod over on Patreon Follow us on Instagram and TikTok thanks for rating us 5 stars 🫶   Disclaimer: The views and experiences shared on cult.ture are personal and based on the lived experiences of the hosts and guests. This podcast is not intended to attack or defame any individual or religious organization or provide therapy. Our aim is to foster honest, empathetic conversations about high-control environments, belief systems, and personal journeys including the long road of healing, questioning, and reclaiming identity. Please be advised that some episodes may contain content that touches on religious trauma, coercive control, emotional or physical abuse, or other potentially triggering topics. We strive to approach these conversations with care, but we acknowledge that certain themes may be difficult to hear. Listener discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is experiencing distress related to these topics, we encourage seeking support from qualified mental health professionals, spiritual trauma-informed therapists, or trusted recovery communities. You are not alone.

What happens when a child is taught that the world may end before she ever reaches adulthood? Gisselle grew up as a first-generation Latina in a strict Jehovah’s Witness family in Phoenix. From an early age, she was taught that Armageddon was imminent, that life in the present world was temporary, and that pursuing a career or higher education was largely unnecessary. In this audio-only conversation, Gisselle joins Derek to discuss the isolation of growing up “in the world” but never being allowed to fully participate in it. She reflects on the pressure to maintain appearances, the lack of empathy she witnessed inside the congregation, the suppression of her cultural identity, and the painful consequences of disfellowshipping within her own family. Gisselle also shares how her desire to attend Bethel unexpectedly led her to community college and how using the research skills she had been taught eventually exposed contradictions she could no longer ignore. After discovering the organization’s handling of child sexual abuse cases and witnessing an elder verbally intimidate her younger brother, she decided that she would never return to another meeting. Leaving at 19 did not immediately erase the fear, isolation, or pressure. But it gave Gisselle the opportunity to begin creating a future she had never been taught to imagine. Today, she holds a bachelor’s degree in mass communications, media studies, and journalism and is pursuing a Master of Public Administration and Public Policy at Arizona State University. Her interests in civic engagement, voting access, and public service have become part of the process of reclaiming a voice she once felt forced to silence. This conversation explores: • Growing up in a strict Spanish-language Jehovah’s Witness congregation • Cultural identity, representation, and the Gen Z ex-JW experience • Armageddon fear and being raised without a vision for the future • Family instability, disfellowshipping, and conditional belonging • Higher education and the pressure to abandon college • Researching Watchtower teachings and discovering misrepresented sources • The meeting that became Gisselle’s final night in the congregation • Rebuilding family relationships after leaving • Political neutrality, voting, and reclaiming civic participation • Creating a meaningful life beyond a high-control religion Gisselle’s story is a reminder that leaving is not the end of someone’s life. Sometimes, it is the first opportunity they have had to truly begin it. Follow Gisselle on Tik Tok: @gisselle.ara   Support cult.ture pod over on Patreon Follow us on Instagram and TikTok thanks for rating us 5 stars 🫶   Disclaimer: The views and experiences shared on cult.ture are personal and based on the lived experiences of the hosts and guests. This podcast is not intended to attack or defame any individual or religious organization or provide therapy. Our aim is to foster honest, empathetic conversations about high-control environments, belief systems, and personal journeys including the long road of healing, questioning, and reclaiming identity. Please be advised that some episodes may contain content that touches on religious trauma, coercive control, emotional or physical abuse, or other potentially triggering topics. We strive to approach these conversations with care, but we acknowledge that certain themes may be difficult to hear. Listener discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is experiencing distress related to these topics, we encourage seeking support from qualified mental health professionals, spiritual trauma-informed therapists, or trusted recovery communities. You are not alone.      

What happens when your greatest act of resistance is simply becoming yourself? This week, we sit down with filmmaker Scott Homan, director of the acclaimed documentaryWitness Underground, to explore life growing up as a second-generation Jehovah’s Witness, the underground music scene that became a lifeline, and the long journey of rebuilding identity after leaving a high-control religion. Scott shares the moment he realized he was living two lives, one dictated by the expectations of the Watchtower and another fueled by creativity, music, and authentic connection. Together, we unpack the psychology of indoctrination, fear, deconstruction, chosen family, and why art often becomes one of the first languages of freedom.   In this episode we discuss: Growing up as a second-generation Jehovah’s Witness Music as a path toward authenticity and self-discovery The hidden underground scene of Jehovah’s Witness musicians Fear, indoctrination, and the psychology of control The moment Scott recognized he was in a cult Deconstruction, atheism, and rebuilding a worldview Friendship, community, and healing after high-control religion The making of Witness Underground Whether you’ve experienced religious trauma, left a high-control group, or simply want to better understand how people reclaim their identity after systems of control, this is a conversation about resilience, creativity, and what it means to finally live on your own terms.   Learn More About Scott Homan & His Work Witness Underground Documentary exploring the underground music scene within Jehovah’s Witness culture and the journey of those who found freedom through creativity. https://www.witnessunderground.com/ Watch / Stream Witness Underground Available through multiple platforms including Apple, Amazon, Tubi, Plex, YouTube Movies, and more. https://www.witnessunderground.com/ Banana Island Films https://www.bananaislandfilms.com Banana Island Films YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@bananaislandfilms Guidedoc (International Streaming) https://guidedoc.tv/documentary/witness-underground-love-letter-to-the-outcast-documentary-film/ Rotten Tomatoes https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/witness_underground IMDb https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15215562 Follow Scott Instagram https://www.instagram.com/scotthoman Witness Underground Instagram https://www.instagram.com/witnessunderground Facebook https://www.facebook.com/WitnessUnderground Other Projects  Hanoi Mixtape A documentary exploring the underground music scene in Hanoi, Vietnam. https://www.hanoimixtape.com/ Music and the Mystical Experience Documentary project exploring music, consciousness, and psychedelic therapy. https://www.sutherlandsounds.com/music-for-psychedelic-therapy Nuclear Gopher New music from the artists and recording studio covered in Witness Underground https://www.nucleargopher.com/ Resources Mentioned For those questioning faith, recovering from religious trauma, or rebuilding after high-control environments: Recovering From Religion https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ Secular Therapy Project https://www.seculartherapy.org/ DECULT A documentary and resource project exploring cult recovery and coercive control. https://decult.net/ DECULT: Beyond Belief Documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZMhsGHTn30 Cults to Consciousness https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdruRz-kWtIBIzgURq05lzw If this episode resonates with you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review, and sharing it with someone who may need to hear it. Your support helps us continue creating conversations that explore identity, belief, recovery, and the human experience with honesty and compassion.     Support cult.ture pod over on Patreon Follow us on Instagram and TikTok thanks for rating us 5 stars 🫶     Disclaimer: The views and experiences shared on cult.ture are personal and based on the lived experiences of the hosts and guests. This podcast is not intended to attack or defame any individual or religious organization or provide therapy. Our aim is to foster honest, empathetic conversations about high-control environments, belief systems, and personal journeys including the long road of healing, questioning, and reclaiming identity. Please be advised that some episodes may contain content that touches on religious trauma, coercive control, emotional or physical abuse, or other potentially triggering topics. We strive to approach these conversations with care, but we acknowledge that certain themes may be difficult to hear. Listener discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is experiencing distress related to these topics, we encourage seeking support from qualified mental health professionals, spiritual trauma-informed therapists, or trusted recovery communities. You are not alone.      

In this episode, Derek and Trent sit down with Brittany Hart, writer, poet, and author of Surviving Wonderland: A Journey Beyond Control. Brittany Hart is an author and poet who writes at the intersection of spiritual trauma and recovery. Her debut collection, Surviving Wonderland: A Journey Beyond Control, transforms her experience in a high-control religious group into art for anyone reclaiming their voice and finding their way back to themselves. She now supports fellow survivors through creative writing, online guides, and spaces of gentle, grounded healing. Brittany shares her experience inside the International House of Prayer in Kansas City, also known as IHOPKC, and how a high-control religious environment shaped her sense of identity, time, purpose, and faith. What began as a sincere search for God slowly became wrapped in fear, urgency, end-times messaging, intense worship culture, and the belief that rest, normal life, and even questioning could mean spiritual failure. Through her book, Brittany uses poetry and the imagery of Alice in Wonderland to describe the process of going down the rabbit hole, waking up, and finding language for what happened. This conversation explores spiritual abuse, the power of music and repetition, the grief of lost time, the role of therapy, and what it can look like to rebuild faith in a way that is no longer rooted in fear. This is a conversation about control, healing, and the courage it takes to come back to yourself.   Brittany’s poetry collection, Surviving Wonderland: A Journey Beyond Control, is now available on Amazon Untangle from end times anxiety with help from Brittany here Follow Brittany on Instagram   Support cult.ture pod over on Patreon Follow us on Instagram and TikTok thanks for rating us 5 stars 🫶     Disclaimer: The views and experiences shared on cult.ture are personal and based on the lived experiences of the hosts and guests. This podcast is not intended to attack or defame any individual or religious organization or provide therapy. Our aim is to foster honest, empathetic conversations about high-control environments, belief systems, and personal journeys including the long road of healing, questioning, and reclaiming identity. Please be advised that some episodes may contain content that touches on religious trauma, coercive control, emotional or physical abuse, or other potentially triggering topics. We strive to approach these conversations with care, but we acknowledge that certain themes may be difficult to hear. Listener discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is experiencing distress related to these topics, we encourage seeking support from qualified mental health professionals, spiritual trauma-informed therapists, or trusted recovery communities. You are not alone.