Clemenz With a ”Z” Podcast

In this episode of Clemenz With a “Z,” I’m joined by Dena Schusterman.  Dena is an educator, writer, mother of eight, and Chabad emissary in Atlanta. Her memoir, Stories Carry: A Memoir, began as an effort to preserve her father’s stories and grew into a layered account of her own family, faith, and the traditions and experiences passed between generations. We talk about telling stories honestly, the ways inherited survival strategies can become patterns we carry, the grounding rhythm of Shabbat, and how to hold complexity: loving our families while naming what hurt, and recognizing the gifts of tradition while being honest about its costs. Dena’s reflections open up a thoughtful conversation about how we carry what came before us while making room for our own questions. Learn more about Dena at denaschusterman.com and follow her on Instagram at @denads. If you are a member, were a member, or know someone who was a member of the ICOC or ICC or any other type of high control religious institution and would like to share your story about life in and out of the church, I’d love to hear from you. Together, we can continue exploring the question, “We were in a cult?” and perhaps find some healing along the way. You can reach me via email at [email protected], or send me a DM on Instagram at the Clemenz With a Z podcast page. If this episode meant something to you, I’d love it if you’d take a second to like, subscribe, and leave a review, it really helps more people find the show. You can head over to https://gofund.me/7ebb0524 every bit helps. And if you’re looking for more reflection, honesty, and spiritual wrestling, check out my Substack:  Devotionals for the Deconstructing & Disillusioned, it’s a space for people who still have soul, but no longer fit in the boxes they were handed. Thanks for being here.

In this episode, I reflect on a moment of recognition: while talking with Audra, who grew up Mormon, I heard echoes of my own experience growing up in the International Churches of Christ. Our stories aren’t identical, but we recognized familiar patterns, certainty, fear, and learning to distrust ourselves. I explore why it can feel like an exhale to be understood without having to explain or prove everything, and how sharing our stories can help us feel less alone without asking us to agree on what they mean. I hope this episode reminds you that your story doesn’t have to live with you alone. If you are a member, were a member, or know someone who was a member of the ICOC or ICC or any other type of high control religious institution and would like to share your story about life in and out of the church, I’d love to hear from you. Together, we can continue exploring the question, “We were in a cult?” and perhaps find some healing along the way. You can reach me via email at [email protected], or send me a DM on Instagram at the Clemenz With a Z podcast page. If this episode meant something to you, I’d love it if you’d take a second to like, subscribe, and leave a review, it really helps more people find the show. You can head over to https://gofund.me/7ebb0524 every bit helps. And if you’re looking for more reflection, honesty, and spiritual wrestling, check out my Substack:  Devotionals for the Deconstructing & Disillusioned, it’s a space for people who still have soul, but no longer fit in the boxes they were handed. Thanks for being here.

I’ve been away from the podcast for a little while, but I’m back now, and I’m glad to return with this conversation. In this episode of We Were In a Cult?, I sit down with Kristin, a fellow Kingdom Kid whose experience growing up in the ICOC differed from mine in some meaningful ways. She describes a childhood understanding of God as a best friend and parents who encouraged her to trust her gut, think for herself, and make her own decisions about faith. We also explore the messages she absorbed along the way and what she’s had to unlearn as an adult. What stayed with me was how much our parents can shape our experience of church, God, and ourselves and how their trust can give us room to discover who we are. As someone still unpacking the answers I was handed as a child, and as a father figuring out what I want to pass on to my son, this conversation gave me a lot to think about. Thanks for being here. It’s good to be back. If you are a member, were a member, or know someone who was a member of the ICOC or ICC and would like to share your story about life in and out of the church, I’d love to hear from you. Together, we can continue exploring the question, “We were in a cult?” and perhaps find some healing along the way. You can reach me via email at [email protected], or send me a DM on Instagram at the Clemenz With a Z podcast page. If this episode meant something to you, I’d love it if you’d take a second to like, subscribe, and leave a review, it really helps more people find the show. You can head over to https://gofund.me/7ebb0524 every bit helps. And if you’re looking for more reflection, honesty, and spiritual wrestling, check out my Substack: Devotionals for the Deconstructing & Disillusioned, it’s a space for people who still have soul, but no longer fit in the boxes they were handed. Thanks for being here.

In this episode, I sit down with Audra Phelps to talk about growing up in a strict Mormon household, the ten-year journey that eventually led her out of the church, and the difficult work of discovering who she was after leaving. We explore how high-control religious systems can teach us to distrust our own questions, surrender our decision-making to outside authority, and follow a prescribed life without ever asking whether it is the life we would choose for ourselves. Audra shares the moment she looked in the mirror and said, “I am not Mormon,” along with the later realization that she knew everyone else’s favorite kind of pie, but couldn’t name her own. Today, Audra helps former Mormon moms quiet their inner Mormon critic, reconnect with their intuition, and build lives and families beyond the beliefs they inherited. Through Mama Audra, she offers the Reclaimed program, one-on-one coaching, free monthly Cozy Chats, and a free masterclass called “Five Shifts Every Former Mormon Mom Needs to Make.” You can learn more at mamaaudra.com or connect with her on Instagram at @mamaaudraofficial. If this episode meant something to you, I’d love it if you’d take a second to like, subscribe, and leave a review, it really helps more people find the show. You can head over to https://gofund.me/7ebb0524 every bit helps. And if you’re looking for more reflection, honesty, and spiritual wrestling, check out my Substack: Devotionals for the Deconstructing & Disillusioned, it’s a space for people who still have soul, but no longer fit in the boxes they were handed. Thanks for being here.

Sometimes the most meaningful shifts don't happen while we're reading a book or sitting in therapy, they happen while scrolling Instagram... or watching Toy Story 5 with our kids. In this episode, I share how an Instagram reel about fatherhood challenged me, why I couldn't stop thinking about it, and how an unexpected night at the movies helped me discover the other half of the story. This isn't just a conversation about masculinity or fatherhood; it's about deconstruction, reconstruction, belonging, and the kind of presence I hope to become for my son, my family, and the people I love. If you've ever found yourself asking, "If I'm letting go of who I thought I was supposed to be... who am I becoming?" I think this episode is for you. If this episode meant something to you, I’d love it if you’d take a second to like, subscribe, and leave a review, it really helps more people find the show. You can head over to https://gofund.me/7ebb0524 every bit helps. And if you’re looking for more reflection, honesty, and spiritual wrestling, check out my Substack: Devotionals for the Deconstructing & Disillusioned, it’s a space for people who still have soul, but no longer fit in the boxes they were handed. Thanks for being here.

Every Father's Day, I hear some version of the same message: be stronger, lead better, protect more, carry the weight. And if I'm honest, those sermons usually leave me feeling less encouraged and more afraid. Afraid of getting it wrong. Afraid of not being enough. In this episode, I explore a different vision of fatherhood through one of Jesus' most famous parables. Looking at the story we often call "The Prodigal Son," I found myself drawn not to the son who left, but to the father who watched, waited, and ran. This is the Father's Day sermon I want to tell.  It's a reflection on fear, love, letting go, and what it means to become the kind of person someone can always come home to. If this episode meant something to you, I’d love it if you’d take a second to like, subscribe, and leave a review, it really helps more people find the show. You can head over to https://gofund.me/7ebb0524 every bit helps. And if you’re looking for more reflection, honesty, and spiritual wrestling, check out my Substack: Devotionals for the Deconstructing & Disillusioned, it’s a space for people who still have soul, but no longer fit in the boxes they were handed. Thanks for being here.

Music is, at its most basic level, just vibrations moving through the air. A guitar string vibrates, sound waves travel through oxygen molecules, and our brains somehow turn those vibrations into an experience. Yet that explanation never feels like enough. A song can make us cry, transport us back in time, or help us survive a difficult season of life. In this episode of Clemenz With a "Z", I explore the idea of emergence; the mysterious way that simple parts sometimes become something more when they come together. From music and consciousness to family, community, and spirituality, this conversation wrestles with two different kinds of "why" and what it means to live with wonder in a world that can often be explained, but never fully exhausted. If this episode meant something to you, I’d love it if you’d take a second to like, subscribe, and leave a review, it really helps more people find the show. You can head over to https://gofund.me/7ebb0524 every bit helps. And if you’re looking for more reflection, honesty, and spiritual wrestling, check out my Substack: Devotionals for the Deconstructing & Disillusioned, it’s a space for people who still have soul, but no longer fit in the boxes they were handed. Thanks for being here.

A few days ago, my son climbed into the backseat after school holding a small Jesus figurine. He turned it over in his hands for a few quiet minutes, and then, completely out of nowhere asked me: "Why did Jesus die?" I laughed. Then I felt the weight of it. Because for a lot of us who grew up in evangelical or high-control religious spaces, that question was never simple. It carried fear, guilt, and a framework we absorbed long before we were old enough to examine it. In this episode, I talk about how I answered him, the answer I chose not to give, and what hit me a few days later, the realization that mattered more than getting the theology right. If this episode meant something to you, I’d love it if you’d take a second to like, subscribe, and leave a review, it really helps more people find the show. You can head over to https://gofund.me/7ebb0524 every bit helps. And if you’re looking for more reflection, honesty, and spiritual wrestling, check out my Substack: Devotionals for the Deconstructing & Disillusioned, it’s a space for people who still have soul, but no longer fit in the boxes they were handed. Thanks for being here.

I've ended every episode of Clemenz With a 'Z' with the same line for years:  'thanks for being a part of this messy middle with me.' It became such a reflex that I stopped asking myself what I actually meant by it. This episode is my honest answer. And if you've ever left a system, a church, a belief structure, a tribe and found yourself wondering why you can't seem to land anywhere clean, this one is for you. The messy middle isn't a problem to solve. It might actually be the most honest place you've ever lived. If something in this conversation resonated with you, I’d love to hear from you. You can email me at [email protected], or send me a DM over on Instagram at @clemenzwithazpodcast. If you want to support the podcast financially, you can head over to ClemenzWithAZ.com, there’s a merch store there with shirts, stickers, all kinds of stuff.  And if you’re looking for something a little more regular, check out my Substack: Devotions for the Disillusioned & Deconstructing. That’s where I share short reflections, devotionals, and some extra behind-the-scenes thoughts that don’t always make it onto the podcast. And of course, the best way you can support the show is by subscribing, rating, and leaving a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Share it with a friend, post it on your socials, drop it in a group chat, it all helps more than you know. This podcast keeps going because of listeners like you showing up, engaging, and passing it on. So thank you for being here, for listening, and for being part of this messy middle with me. Until next time, take care of yourselves, and each other.

This episode of Clemenz With a “Z” started with a story that honestly stopped me in my tracks: a pastor introducing another pastor from the pulpit by mocking his rental car as “a little gay.” But the deeper I sat with it, the more I realized this wasn’t really about a Prius, or even one awkward church moment. It was about the systems so many men have been raised inside, systems that teach us to fear tenderness, police closeness, and perform strength at the expense of real connection. In this episode, I explore masculinity, emotional safety, church culture, brotherhood, purity culture, and the quiet loneliness so many men carry underneath the performance. I also reflect on my own experience growing up in the ICOC, the complicated beauty of male friendship inside high-control environments, and the example my father gave me of a different kind of manhood—one rooted not in fear, but presence. If something in this conversation resonated with you, I’d love to hear from you. You can email me at [email protected], or send me a DM over on Instagram at @clemenzwithazpodcast. If you want to support the podcast financially, you can head over to ClemenzWithAZ.com, there’s a merch store there with shirts, stickers, all kinds of stuff. You can also donate directly through the GoFundMe, the link’s in the show notes. Every bit goes a long way in helping me keep these conversations going. And if you’re looking for something a little more regular, check out my Substack: Devotions for the Disillusioned & Deconstructing. That’s where I share short reflections, devotionals, and some extra behind-the-scenes thoughts that don’t always make it onto the podcast. And of course, the best way you can support the show is by subscribing, rating, and leaving a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Share it with a friend, post it on your socials, drop it in a group chat, it all helps more than you know. This podcast keeps going because of listeners like you showing up, engaging, and passing it on. So thank you for being here, for listening, and for being part of this messy middle with me. Until next time, take care of yourselves, and each other.