The Politics of Pleasure w/ Eric Wycoff Rogers and Zarinah Agnew

Capitalism’s addiction to growth doesn’t just show up in the external world. It can also be found inside us—in our manufactured desire for more and better. Not only do we have to keep wanting to keep the machine going, we have to keep wanting what is “scarce” and easily privatizable or commodifiable so that the capitalist class can continue to profit. Critical hedonism(s) is an approach to pleasure and care that is critical of capitalism. It is a politics of pleasure that invites us to remake our desires to be less antisocial, competitive, and harmful, and to instead be more prosocial, collaborative and mutually beneficial.  The idea of critical hedonism(s) has been deeply studied and explored by our guests in today’s episode. Zarinah Agnew is a trained neuroscientist formerly at University College London, and then UCSF, a self-described guerrilla scientist, and part of the Beyond Return organization. Eric Wycoff Rogers is a historian, writer, community organizer, and designer currently based in London. Eric runs a thirdspace project in London, convenes a discussion series on the politics of pleasure, and is the author of the Critical Hedonist Manifesto. This is Eric and Zarinah’s second time on the podcast, they joined us in 2022 to talk about Fully Automated Luxury Communism, which is a great compliment to this episode. This is also a great episode following our most recent conversation with Jason Hickel, Better Lives for All. Where that conversation focused on human needs, this one takes up the topic of human wants.  In this conversation, we explore what capitalism tells us to desire and why, we interrogate what is truly “cheap,” “expensive,” and “valuable,” and explore what it would be like to participate in a politics of pleasure based on critical hedonism(s)—creating conditions and opportunities for distributed pleasure that don’t cause harm to people or the planet. Finally, we are invited to learn about community gatherings and how to do the work of reclaiming and remaking pleasure. Further Resources: Critical Hedonist Manifesto Critical Hedonism(s) Beyond Return Decoding Labs The Joyless Economy, by Tibor Scitovsky The Right to Sex, by Amia Srinivasan The Zero Marginal Cost Society I Dream of Canteens The Listening Society: Possible and Necessary Post-Growth Living: For An Alternative Hedonism, by Kate Soper Pleasure Activism: The Politics of Feeling Good, by Adrienne Maree Brown Becoming Feminist: Consciousness Raising and Social Ecology, Eric Woycoff Rogers (blog) Related Episodes: Fully Automated Luxury Communism with Zarinah Agnew and Eric Wycoff Rogers Better Lives for All w/ Jason Hickel Grassroots Urban Placemaking with Mark Lakeman Sex, Desire, and the Neoliberal Subject Suburban Hell and Ugly Cities Intermission music: Night Cafe Radio Upstream is a labor of love—we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at  upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.    

This is a free preview of the episode "Palestine Pt. 12: Resistance in the West w/ Max Geller and Sanyika." You can listen to the full episode by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast As a Patreon subscriber you will get access to at least one bonus episode a month (usually two or three), our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes, early access to certain episodes, and other benefits like stickers and bumper stickers—depending on which tier you subscribe to. You’ll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going. Find out more at Patreon.com/upstreampodcast or at upstreampodcast.org/support. Thank you. From the student-led encampments on college campuses all over the U.S. to direct actionists in the UK bursting through weapons factory walls with sledge hammers in their hands—the fight for Palestinian liberation in the West takes many forms. The response—repressive, heavy-handed, and fascistic—has also taken many forms, from draconian charges to outright mob violence. In this Patreon episode, we’ll take stock of some recent on-the-ground actions, from the Palestinian solidarity encampment at UCLA to the work of Palestine Action in both the US and the UK. And we’ve brought on two guests to help walk us through it all.  Sanyika is the current co-chair of the National Lawyers Guild Chapter at UCLA and a current, second year law student at UCLA who has been an organizer for the past 10 years, most recently at the UCLA student encampment for Palestine. You might have heard about the UCLA encampment after news of a violent series of attacks by Zionists hit headlines after the encampment was attacked on May 1st. The Zionist attack was followed up in the early hours of May 2nd by a police attack, where the LAPD and highway patrol attempted to clear the encampment using rubber bullets and flash bangs. The violence and brutality of the zionists and the police on those days captured the country’s attention as news feeds were packed with images and videos that left us feeling like we were staring fascism in the face. But we also saw the community response of over a thousand people who showed up to protect and defend the encampment.  Our second guest for this episode is Max Geller, a public-facing member of Palestine Action in the UK. Max is a return Patreon guest who you might recall from our episode Palestine Pt. 7: Direct Action w/ Max Geller of Palestine Action, part of our ongoing series on Palestine.  In this episode, we take a deep dive into the UCLA encampment—its origins, its demands, its fight against campus administrators, zionists, and cops, while situating this specific encampment within the broader encampment movement, which is very much still active. We also explore one of the most recent actions by Palestine Action which has left 11 direct actionists facing felony charges in the UK. We talk about the importance of direct action and organizing, what we can learn from the past eleven months of actions, the struggle for liberation both in the West and in Palestine, and how we can plug in and get involved ourselves.  Cover art: Sanyika Further resources: Palestine Action Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) UC Divest The Mapping Project Join us in supporting Palestine at MECA, Anera, or the Palestinian Red Crescent Society Related episodes: Palestine Pt. 7: Direct Action w/ Max Geller of Palestine Action Upstream's ongoing series on Palestine Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at  upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

U.S. empire—the world’s greatest enemy. U.S. imperialism is not a "single issue," it's directly connected to hundreds of millions of people's lives, capital accumulation and global inequality, climate change, fascism in the US, crumbling infrastructure, monopolies, and much, much more. U.S. imperialism is the issue that ties all of the other issues together, founded as it is on capital's need to accumulate profits and maintain U.S. political hegemony. There is not a single issue in your life that cannot be traced back to our empire and its maintenance. Today’s episode is a special live conversation we did last month in Los Angeles with the terrific Abby Martin. Abby is journalist, filmmaker, activist, founder of The Empire Files and director of the films Gaza Fights for Freedom and the upcoming documentary Earth’s Greatest Enemy, which focuses on one particular aspect of U.S. empire: its environmental impact. The U.S. military is the largest institutional source of climate emissions on the planet—and yet it’s exempt from the climate protocols that aim to reduce emissions. However, this is not the only way the US Empire harms the planet. Abby’s upcoming film, as well as our conversation with her, take a deep dive into imperialism’s wider environmental impacts. We also discuss Abby’s other work, including her 2019 film, Gaza Fights for Freedom, which documents the Great March of Return in Palestine. We talk about what she learned in 2017 from her time in Jerusalem and witnessing Israeli society first hand, her experience being an unapologetically anti-Zionist voice for so many years, the business of war, the upcoming elections, the role of alternative media in breaking the chains of empire and much more.  Thank you to All Power Books in Los Angeles for organizing this event—they are a radical bookstore and community space that are the real deal. Check them out and support their incredible work at: allpowerbooks.org. And also, visit earthsgreatestenemy.com to chip in and support Abby and her team in getting their film past the finish line—they are still raising funds to complete production.  Further Resources: Donate to Earth’s Greatest Enemy Gaza Fights for Freedom Breakthrough News Project Censored Jerusalem street interviews All Power Books Donate to All Power Books Join us in supporting Palestine at MECA, Anera, or the Palestinian Red Crescent Society Related Episodes: Better Lives for All w/ Jason Hickel Walter Rodney, Marxism, and Underdevelopment with D. Musa Springer & Charisse Burden-Stelly [UNLOCKED] How the North Plunders the South w/ Jason Hickel Palestine Pt. 11: Israel and the U.S. Empire w/ Max Ajl Nationalism and the Error of Patriotic Socialism w/ Sina Rahmani and Nick Climate Leninism w/ Jodi Dean and Kai Heron Upstream's ongoing series on Palestine Covert art: Gage from All Power Books Upstream is a labor of love—we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at  upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.    

This is a free preview of the episode "Oil, Monopoly Capitalism, and Imperialism w/ Adam Hanieh." You can listen to the full episode by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast As a Patreon subscriber you will get access to at least one bonus episode a month (usually two or three), our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes, early access to certain episodes, and other benefits like stickers and bumper stickers—depending on which tier you subscribe to. You’ll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going. Find out more at Patreon.com/upstreampodcast or at upstreampodcast.org/support. Thank you. Oil is much more than just a source of energy—it’s a commodity that has shaped—and has been shaped—by the forces of capitalism perhaps more so than any other commodity. The story of oil is one of monopoly capitalism, one of imperialism, one of cheap labor, resource extraction, ecosystem devastation, climate change, assassinations, environmental disasters, genocides—the list goes on. Oil is the commodity which not just lubricates the actual, literal machinery driving the system—but which also lubricates the entire process of U.S. imperialism—the blood flowing through the empire’s many tentacles wrapped around the globe. As today’s guest has written, “Oil's centrality stems from what it does for the imperatives of accumulation: its ability to accelerate and expand capital's turnover, cheapen the costs of production (including labor), and knit together an international market. No other commodity plays this role.” Adam Hanieh is a Palestinian professor at the Institute for Arab and Islamic Studies at the University of Exeter. He is the author of Lineages of Revolt: Issues of Contemporary Capitalism in the Middle East, published by Haymarket Books, and most recently, Crude Capitalism: Oil, Corporate Power, and the Making of the World Market, published by Verso. Adam was on the show last year to talk about the political economy of Palestine, part of our ongoing series on Palestine.In this episode we explore the early history of oil, its emergence as a fuel source and how it eventually overtook other fuels like coal as the primary energy source of capitalism. We explore the role that oil has played in shaping geopolitics—from colonialism to coups, assassinations, and more, focusing on the way that oil has shaped the Middle East to this day. We talk about the major oil companies and how the world market for oil works, and finally, we bring into stark relief the environmental implications of this hydrocarbon and the way that oil companies continue to dominate and shape our response to climate change. Further resources: Crude Capitalism: Oil, Corporate Power, and the Making of the World Market Related episodes: Upstream's ongoing series on Palestine Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at  upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

We’re often told that it would be unfeasible for everyone on the planet to live good lives—that if there wasn’t some degree of poverty—or at least lower living standards—in the rest of the world, then we’d blow right through the ecological limits of the planet. Even if it’s not said explicitly, the argument is that some people need to be poor in order for us in the Global North to live good lives. There’s a lot wrong with this assumption on a lot of different levels, but most importantly—it’s empirically inaccurate. It is possible, in fact, for everybody on the planet to have their needs met and to live a good life and make it happen, in fact, with only 30 percent of current global resource and energy use. That might sound unbelievable, right? Well, that’s capitalist realism for you. Because not only is it believable—it’s based on solid research and empirical data. It would, however, require ending capitalism and moving towards eco-socialism. So yes, it’s possible. But it won’t be easy. To discuss the research behind these exciting findings we’ve brought on economic anthropologist Jason Hickel. Jason is a professor at the The Institute for Environmental Science and Technology at the Autonomous University of Barcelona, and the author of the books The Divide: A Brief Guide to Global Inequality and its Solutions and Less is More: How Degrowth will Save the World. He’s the lead author of the paper “How much growth is required to achieve good lives for all? Insights from needs-based analysis” published in the journal World Development Perspectives, and which we’ll be discussing today.  As you may know, Jason is a regular guest on the show and was on most recently to discuss two other fascinating and important papers he recently co-authored, “Imperialist appropriation in the world economy: Drain from the global South through unequal exchange, 1990–2015” published in journal Global Environmental Change and "Unequal exchange of labour in the world economy" published in the journal Nature Communications. What assumptions go into traditional economic thinking and how have they limited the way we conceptualize poverty and how we address it? How do we conceive of good lives—and how does our current economic system limit these conceptions and perpetuate environmental destruction and social immiseration? What would an economic system that is designed around meeting actual human and planetary needs look like? And, perhaps most importantly, how do we get there? These are just some of the questions we discuss in this fascinating conversation with economic anthropologist Jason Hickel. Further Resources: The Political and Economic Determinants of Health Outcomes: A Cross-National Analysis, Hugh F. Lena and Bruce London How to pay for saving the world: Modern Monetary Theory for a degrowth transition, Christopher Olk, Colleen Schneider, Jason Hickel Related Episodes: How the North Plunders the South w/ Jason Hickel The Divide – Global Inequality from Conquest to Free Markets with Jason Hickel International Development and Post-capitalism with Jason Hickel How Degrowth Will Save the World with Jason Hickel The Green Transition Pt.1 – The Problem with Green Capitalism Covert art: Berwyn Mure Intermission music: One Last Wish Upstream is a labor of love—we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at  upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.  

You can listen to the full episode "Nathan Fielder's 'The Curse'" by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast As a Patreon subscriber you will get access to at least one bonus episode a month (usually two or three), our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes, early access to certain episodes, and other benefits like stickers and bumper stickers—depending on which tier you subscribe to. You’ll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going. Find out more at Patreon.com/upstreampodcast or at upstreampodcast.org/support. Thank you. What happens when the contradictions of living under late capitalism—both internal and external—are revealed in excruciating detail? What happens when our performances break down, when they break us, when they break those around us? What happens when you take all of this and wrap it up in a faux reality TV show which is itself about a reality TV show?  Well, you get The Curse—the latest masterpiece by comedian, actor, writer, director, and producer, Nathan Fielder. You may know Nathan from his satirical docu-reality comedy television series, Nathan For You. You may know him from his more recent TV series The Rehearsal. Or you may not know him at all—it doesn’t really matter, because in this episode we’re going to explain everything you need to know about how Nathan Fielder produces masterful media and art—and we’re going to do so by taking a deep dive into the 10 episode mini-series The Curse, written by and starring Nathan Fielder and Benny Safdie—and also starring Emma Stone.   And to have this conversation, we’ve invited on friend of the show and TV & film enthusiast Carlee. You may recognize Carlee from our episode on Capitalist Realism, or you may recall a couple of Patreon episodes ago when Robert read her piece, “The Puritanical Eye: Hyper-mediation, Sex on Film, and the Disavowal of Desire.”   In this conversation, we discuss Nathan Fielder’s “The Curse”—walking you through the plot and the characters before analyzing and presenting a wide variety of scenes from the show and discussing what they tell us about our individuated, isolated, tortured, exhausted, and often performative lives under neoliberal capitalism. It really is a great show and this is a wide-ranging discussion that will have value whether or not you’ve seen the show. It’s also a lot of fun.  Further resources: Egress: On Mourning, Melancholy and Mark Fisher The Puritanical Eye: Hyper-mediation, Sex on Film, and the Disavowal of Desire, by Carlee Related episodes: Capitalist Realism w/ Carlee Sex, Desire, and the Neoliberal Subject Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at  upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship

Facts don’t care about your feelings. Logic isn’t fair. Reason isn’t concerned with your emotions. These oft-regurgitated cliches hurled at the left by those on the right might sound familiar to you. Hey, maybe they’ve even been directed at you personally. And, aside from seeing these claims from the right as simply funny, they’re also quite ironic. Because, when you actually dig down into the arguments of both the left and the right, it becomes quite clear, quite quickly, that the facts are actually on our side. That when you use logic and reason to argue for either capitalism or socialism, it’s socialism that comes out as the winner. Everytime.  There are many tools in the left’s toolbox when it comes to convincing those we interact with about the superiority of socialism. We do have arguments that center on fairness and equity, on more feelings-based arguments, which are very compelling and which we should certainly not abandon. But we also have a vast arsenal of arguments that rely on simple logic. And it’s some of these arguments that we’re going to explore—both in favor of socialism and against capitalism—in this episode. And we’ve brought on the perfect guest to walk us through this style of argumentation. Scott Sehon is a Professor of philosophy at Bowdoin College and author of the book Socialism: A Logical Introduction, published by Oxford University Press. In this episode, we introduce the philosophical study of logic and how to construct and deconstruct logical  formulas and logical arguments. We then apply this knowledge to the real world by asking what is the better economic system: socialism or capitalism? In the process we discredit and overturn some of the most common arguments for capitalism, we explore what we actually mean by socialism and socialistic societies, we explore a great deal of empirical data suggesting the superiority of societies with more democratic control and more egalitarian distribution, and, we talk about the importance of utilizing the tools of logic and reason as socialists. Further resources: Socialism: A Logical Introduction, by Scott Sehon Taking Stock of Shock: Social Consequences of the 1989 Revolutions by Kristen Ghodsee and Mitchell Orenstein Related episodes: Dialectical Materialism w/ Josh Sykes Why Women Have Better Sex Under Socialism with Kristen Ghodsee [UNLOCKED] How the North Plunders the South w/ Jason Hickel Walter Rodney, Marxism, and Underdevelopment with D. Musa Springer & Charisse Burden-Stelly The Spirit Level with Richard Wilkinson & Kate Pickett Suburban Hell and Ugly Cities Debunking the Myth of Homo economicus (documentary) Socialism Betrayed w/ Roger Keeran and Joe Jamison Cover artwork: Carolyn Raider Intermission music: "Invisible Rain" by Stick To Your Guns Upstream is a labor of love—we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at  upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

Weight loss has become a fully fledged industry in the United States—another classic trick by the capitalist class: manufacture a problem to make profits, and then sell a half-solution back to the population to purportedly address that problem. Are you experiencing health issues from the poisonous food manufacturing industry in the United States? No problem, we got you. Here’s a drug.  You might have heard of a drug called Ozempic—if not, don’t worry, we’ll bring you up to speed soon, but for now, all you need to know is that it’s a brand new weight loss drug that swept its way through Hollywood a couple of years ago and has now found its way into the bathroom mirrors of people around the world. Some predictions actually suggest that in a few years, a quarter of the U.S. population will be taking these drugs. In fact, it’s become so widespread that there’s been a decline in the stock value of companies like Krispy Kreme, the doughnut brand, which analysts have directly attributed to the growing popularity of drugs like Ozempic.  But what problem are these miracle weight loss drugs really trying to solve? If they are meant to increase our health and well-being, how do they actually impact health indicators? And what if the ultimate solution to the problem of increasing stress under capitalism and a poisonous food industry is more complicated than injecting yourself with appetite suppressing hormones?  These are the same questions that led today’s guest on a journey from Iceland to Minneapolis to Tokyo to find some answers about the impacts of industrial food manufacturing and “miracle” drugs. The answers aren’t black and white, and they take us through a deep and widely varying conversation that spans from body positivity movements, to weight loss drugs, fast food, anorexia, body dysmorphia, health and healing, and much more.  Johann Hari is the author of the books Lost Connections: Why You’re Depressed and How to Find Hope, Stolen Focus: Why you Can’t Pay Attention, and, most recently, Magic Pill: The Extraordinary Benefits and Disturbing Risks of the New Weight-Loss Drugs. In this episode Johann tells us about his experience experimenting with Ozempic, the benefits and drawbacks of the drug, what it taught him about shame, willpower, and healing, and whether these magic little pills are a pathway towards liberation from diabetes, cancer, and an early death, or if they’re just another symptom of and false solution to a system that poisons us for a profit. Further resources: Magic Pill: The Extraordinary Benefits and Disturbing Risks of the New Weight-Loss Drugs, by Johann Hari Related episodes: Upstream: Stolen Focus with Johann Hari Upstream: The Political Economy of Food with Eric Holt-Gimenez Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at  upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

You can listen to the full episode "The Liberal Virus" by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast As a Patreon subscriber you will get access to at least one bonus episode a month (usually two or three), our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes, early access to certain episodes, and other benefits like stickers and bumper stickers—depending on which tier you subscribe to. You’ll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going. Find out more at Patreon.com/upstreampodcast or at upstreampodcast.org/support. Thank you. Liberalism is a virus. It began to spread across Europe centuries ago and was later carried into other parts of the planet where it evolved and then returned back to Europe even more virulent than before. Liberalism, is, of course, used here in the philosophical sense, not in the sense that it is used in the United States’ electoral and political sense. Liberalism, for the most part, is synonymous with capitalism, and in this Patreon reading and analysis of the classic text, The Liberal Virus: Permanent War and the Americanization of the World, we go on a journey with the Egyptian and French Marxist, dependency theorist Samir Amin to explore the rise of liberalism and its implications for people and the planet.  In doing so, we explore the basic tenets of liberalism, how it elevates the economy above all else, how it distorts human relations and infects us with pure economism and an exchange value mindset. We take detours into Mark Fisher’s concept of capitalist realism, into postmodernism and how it has been deployed as an ideological weapon against Marxism, into U.S. electoral politics and how identity is utilized by the liberal class, into U.S. imperialism, world systems theory, and much, much more. Further resources: The Liberal Virus: Permanent War and the Americanization of the World, by Samir Amin Related episodes: Walter Rodney, Marxism, and Underdevelopment with D. Musa Springer & Charisse Burden-Stelly  Palestine Pt. 11: Israel and the U.S. Empire w/ Max Ajl [UNLOCKED] How the North Plunders the South w/ Jason Hickel Dialectical Materialism w/ Josh Sykes Climate Leninism w/ Jodi Dean and Kai Heron The Missing Revolution w/ Vincent Bevins What is To Be Done? with Breht O'Shea and Alyson Escalante Capitalist Realism with Carlee Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at  upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

Pan-African Marxist, underdevelopment theorist, guerrilla intellectual, father, husband, radical—these are all terms that we could use to describe Walter Rodney. You may know him from his classic text, How Europe Underdeveloped Africa, you may know that he was assassinated at the age of 38 for his activism, or you may not know who he was at all—either way, his ideas and his influence have most likely reached you, if not directly, then indirectly, through the waves and ripples that his life and work created in the many intersecting liberation movements throughout the planet.  Described by some as decolonial Marxism, by others as Pan-African Marxism, or just as a continuation of Marxist theory as applied to the African continent and the African diaspora, Rodney’s work has been monumental in advancing and applying scientific socialism to updated physical and temporal regions which were not covered extensively until Rodney. His theories on underdevelopment as part of global capitalism opened up new spaces for theorizing and understanding imperialism, colonialism, and neocolonialism. His work in academia was imbued with a radical, guerrilla, fervor which resulted in institutions and states taking great measures to silence him, and the impact that he had was so monumental that he was tragically assassinated in his home country of Guyana almost 45 years ago.  We’ve been exploring many ideas on the show recently that are founded on much of Walter Rodney’s work, and so an episode on his life and work are past-due. And we have brought on two guests who we could not be more excited to be having this conversation with.  D. Musa Springer is a cultural worker, community organizer, and journalist based in Georgia. They are the International Youth Representative for Cuba's Red Barrial Afrodescendiente and an organizer with The Black Alliance for Peace. They produced the documentary “Parchman Prison: Pain & Protest (2020),” and are the host of the Groundings podcast. They are currently working on a documentary project titled “Y Mis Negros Que?”, and their book Alive & Paranoid was published in Spring, 2024 by Iskra Books. Charisse Burden-Stelly is Associate Professor of African American studies at Wayne State University, a member of The Black Alliance for Peace and Community Movement Builders, and author of Black Scare / Red Scare: Theorizing Capitalist Racism in the United States, published by the University of Chicago Press. You may remember that Charisse was on the show last year to talk about Black Scare / Red Scare.  In this conversation, we introduce Walter Rodney biographically before we dive into his work applying scientific socialism to Africa, theorizing underdevelopment and capitalism as a world system, applying his work to events happening in the world right now in places like Palestine and Cuba, what Rodney had to say about education and academia, and much, much more. Further resources: Charisse Burden-Stelly Black Scare / Red Scare: Theorizing Capitalist Racism in the United States, by Charisse Burden-Stelly Alive and Paranoid, by D. Musa Springer The Walter Rodney Foundation Related episodes: Upstream: Black Scare / Red Scare with Charisse Burden-Stelly Upstream: [UNLOCKED] How the North Plunders the South w/ Jason Hickel Intermission music: "A Song for Walter Rodney" by Bocaflojay Cover artwork: B. Mure Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at  upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.