EP 148: Making Movement Meaningful with Kelly and Juliet Starrett

Try Katy's Virtual Studio Free for 7 Days!This Episode's Show NotesJoin Our Newsletter: Movement Colored GlassesBiomechanist Katy Bowman and biologist Jeannette Loram get into a nuanced discussion about clothing, specifically the idea that how you get dressed might be impacting the way that you move or the movement choices you are able to make. Katy and Jeannette highlight how stiff or excessively baggy clothing might be ‘casting’ movement. On the flip side ‘stabilizing’ wear like well-designed bras and compressive garments can make movement more comfortable for certain activities. Katy offers advice on how to dress for multiple scenarios: the movement that you plan to do, the spontaneous movements that you might want to do, as well as all the other things you need to do in a day.Also in this episode Katy speaks with Mira Fannin of Sweet Skins. Sweet Skins produce beautiful hemp-cotton organic clothing. Katy and Mira talk about the origin of Sweet Skins and how Mira’s goal to make cute and liveable clothes for busy women has created the perfect movement-friendly clothing line. They also talk about the famous Bike Time pants and the new Sweet Skins styles coming out very soon. Mira is offering our listeners 20% off all clothes with code Movement20 CHAPTERS00:06:00 - The Dynamic Collective 00:07:09 - Definitions and Categories of Clothing 00:17:30 - Compressive Garments 00:25:23 - Listener Question brought to you by Venn Design 00:31:23 - How do you get dressed in the morning 00:40:31 - Interview with Mira from Sweet Skins BOOKS, ARTICLES AND RESEARCH MENTIONEDInfluence of Compression Garments on Proprioception by Ghai et al 2024Grow Wild by Katy BowmanRESOURCES Minimal Shoes, The ListMovement Matters: Clothes MADE POSSIBLE BY OUR SPONSORS:Earth Runners, minimalist sandals that mimic being truly barefoot through their grounding technology, take 10% off with code DNA10Ikaria Design, creators of the Soul Seat®, a height adjustable chair that allows you to sit in diverse shapes including cross-legged, take 10% of new inventory with code DNA10Sweet Skins, organic hemp and cotton clothing that is stylish, flexible and designed to move with you, take 20% off with code Movement20Smart Playrooms, design and products to keep you and your kids engaged and active at home, take 10% off monkey bars, rock wall panels and holds with code DNA10Venn Design, beautiful floor cushions and ball seats that keep you moving at home or at the officePeluva, Five-toe minimalist sports shoes ideal for walking and higher impact activities. Take 15% off with code NUTRITIOUSMOVEMENT

Try Katy's Virtual Studio Free for 7 Days!This Episode's Show NotesJoin Our Newsletter: Movement Colored GlassesIf you have heard about eccentric exercise but are unsure of the benefits, what it is or how to do it, this episode is your primer! Eccentric muscle contractions generate more force with less energy than other types of muscle contraction and are therefore one of the best ways to get stronger. The mechanism of eccentric contraction within the muscle is a little complicated but Katy offers a simple analogy involving two hair combs! Katy and Jeannette offer some examples of how you can incorporate eccentrics into your movement plan with the empowering message that you can get a lot stronger doing only half an exercise. Can’t do a pull-up? Not a problem, train the eccentric half of the movement—lowering down from the pull-up bar—and you will reap the strength rewards. ¢Also in this episode, Katy speaks with Pack Matthews of Ikaria Design and creator of the Soul Seat®, the original and adjustable cross-legged chair. Katy is using one for her podcast set up and she and Pack talk about the origin of the chair, how the design has changed over time and Katy’s experience with it.  CHAPTERS(0:07:08) - Muscle Contraction: Three types (0:15:56) - Sarcomere: Actin, Myosin, and Titin (0:26:57) - Get Stronger Doing Half of an Exercise (0:41:00) - Listener Question: 'use it or lose it' brought to you by Earth Runners  (0:47:40) - Interview with Pack Matthews of Ikaria Design BOOKS, ARTICLES AND RESEARCH MENTIONEDWant to Get Stronger and Avoid Injury, Try This, New York Times article on eccentrics Eccentrics: Get Stronger Doing Half Of An Exercise, Katy Bowman The Chair by Galen CranzMADE POSSIBLE BY OUR SPONSORS:Ikaria Design, creators of the Soul Seat®, a height adjustable chair that allows you to sit in diverse shapes including cross-legged, take 10% of new inventory with code DNA10Venn Design, beautiful floor cushions and ball seats that keep you moving at home or at the officeSmart Playrooms, design and products to keep you and your kids engaged and active at home, take 10% off monkey bars, rock wall panels and holds with code DNA10Earth Runners, minimalist sandals that mimic being truly barefoot through their grounding technology, take 10% off with code DNA10Peluva, Five-toe minimalist sports shoes ideal for walking and higher impact activities. Take 15% off with code NUTRITIOUSMOVEMENT Sweet Skins, organic hemp and cotton clothing that is stylish, flexible and designed to move with you, take 15% off with code DNA15

Try Katy's Virtual Studio Free for 7 Days!This Episode's Show NotesJoin Our Newsletter: Movement Colored GlassesBiomechanist Katy Bowman and biologist Jeannette Loram take a deeper look into three recent headlines in the body-nerd world.First up, recent research has shown that our skeletal muscles remember training at the protein level - no brain required! This is exciting research and Katy and Jeannette discuss the implications for exercise over the lifespan. Second, they dig into a recent study of uphill walking; the research suggests it is cheaper to take the steeper route, but energy efficiency might not be the only consideration. Finally in response to the online noise about recent changes to the CDC developmental guidelines, Katy and Jeannette explain what has really changed and whether it should have caused such an upset.CHAPTERS02:50 - Muscle Memory  17:12 - Steeper is Cheaper  28:02 - Changes in the CDC milestones  43:22 - Listener Question sponsored by Peluva:  Is it inevitable that our body and parts wear out? ARTICLES AND RESEARCH MENTIONEDNew Explanation of Muscle Memory in Science Daily Skeletal Muscle Proteomic Memory by Hulmi et al (2025)Steeper is Cheaper in Outside Magazine Graded Walking Energetics by Looney et al (2025)CDC Developmental GuidelinesEvidence Informed Milestones by Zubler et al (2022) MADE POSSIBLE BY OUR SPONSORS:Peluva, Five-toe minimalist sports shoes ideal for walking and higher impact activities, take 15% off with code NUTRITIOUSMOVEMENTSmart Playrooms, design and products to keep you and your kids engaged and active at home, take 10% off monkey bars, rock wall panels and holds with code DNA10Venn Design, beautiful floor cushions and ball seats that keep you moving at home or at the office Sweet Skins, organic hemp and cotton clothing that is stylish, flexible and designed to move with you, take 15% off with code DNA15 Ikaria Design, creators of the Soul Seat®, a height adjustable chair that allows you to sit in diverse shapes including cross-legged, take 10% of new inventory with code DNA10Earth Runners, minimalist sandals that mimic being truly barefoot through their grounding technology, take 10% off with code DNA10

Try Katy's Virtual Studio Free for 7 Days!This Episode's Show NotesJoin Our Newsletter: Movement Colored GlassesBiomechanist Katy Bowman and biologist Jeannette Loram continue their discussion about the skeleton. In this episode, they break down the best approach to taking care of your bones using a government framework: Strong, Steady and Straight. They use this framework to discuss exercise and bone loading at three life-stages: a growing skeleton, a mature skeleton and a vulnerable skeleton. Listen to this episode to design a movement plan for your bones.Also in this episode, Katy talks to Mike Dally, founder of Earth Runners, minimalist earthing sandals. Katy has walked more miles in Earth Runners than in any other shoe and Katy and Mike talk about her favourite features; from the non-slip foot bed to the replaceable straps and laces. Mike explains earthing technology and testing and describes their latest product that can ground any minimal shoe.Books Mentioned:Grow Wild by Katy BowmanMove Your DNA by Katy BowmanMy Perfect Movement Plan by Katy BowmanResearch Mentioned:LIFTMOR Randomized Controlled Trial by Watson et al (2018)Aquatic Jump Training Review by Mullenax et al (2021) Made Possible by Our Dynamic Collective of Wonderful Sponsors:Venn Design, beautiful floor cushions and ball seats that keep you moving at home or at the office; Sweet Skins, beautiful organic hemp and cotton clothing that is stylish, flexible and designed to move with you, take 15% off with code DNA15;  Earth Runners, minimalist sandals that mimic being truly barefoot through their grounding technology, take 10% off with code DNA10; Peluva, Five-toe minimalist sports shoes ideal for higher impact activities, take 15% off with code NUTRITIOUSMOVEMENT; Smart Playrooms, design and products to keep you and your kids engaged and active at home, take 10% off monkey bars, rock wall panels and holds with code DNA10 and; Ikaria Design, creators of the Soul Seat®, a height adjustable chair that allows you to sit in diverse shapes including cross-legged, take 10% of new inventory with code DNA10.

Try Katy's Virtual Studio Free for 7 Days!This Episode's Show NotesJoin Our Newsletter: Movement Colored GlassesKaty’s Virtual Studio - Try it Free for 7 Days!This is the first of two episodes on bone. There is lots of discussion in the media about bone health and in this first episode biomechanist Katy Bowman and biologist Jeannette Loram place bone tissue health into a wider context; what really matters is how well the entire skeleton is working—as a system—to support our bodies and our movement. Katy and Jeannette explain how the status of the bone in different parts of your skeleton is a record of the movement you have—and have not done—in the past. They outline Wolff's law, the idea that bone adapts and changes according to the stress and load it experiences throughout a lifetime. They bring this concept to life using examples from populations with distinct movement and bone loading histories ranging from ancient human archers and farmers, through different sporting populations to astronauts. Books Mentioned:Move Your DNA by Katy BowmanOrbital by Samantha Harvey Rethink Your Position by Katy Bowman Research Mentioned: Neolithic Women, Manual Labour and Bone  Cycling and Bone HealthMultidirectional Sport and Running: bone strength  Made Possible by Our Dynamic Collective of Wonderful Sponsors:Smart Playrooms, design and products to keep you and your kids engaged and active at home, take 10% off monkey bars, rock wall panels and holds with code DNA10; Earth Runners, minimalist sandals that mimic being truly barefoot through their grounding technology, take 10% off with code DNA10;  Peluva, Five-toe minimalist sports shoes ideal for higher impact activities, take 15% off with code NUTRITIOUSMOVEMENT; Ikaria Design, creators of the Soul Seat®, a height adjustable chair that allows you to sit in diverse shapes including cross-legged, take 10% of new inventory with code DNA10; Sweet Skins, beautiful organic hemp and cotton clothing that is stylish, flexible and designed to move with you, take 15% off with code DNA15 and Venn Design, beautiful floor cushions and ball seats that keep you moving at home or at the office; Thoughts/questions email us at [email protected] Voice on the Podcast: Read The Credits 

Try Katy's Virtual Studio Free for 7 Days!This Episode's Show NotesJoin Our Newsletter: Movement Colored GlassesKaty’s Virtual Studio - Try it Free for 7 Days!Inspired by a listener's letter, biomechanist Katy Bowman and biologist Jeannette Loram talk about exercise and sport and how these relate to natural movement. They discuss how Katy’s message has sometimes been reduced to exercise is ‘bad’ and natural movement is ‘better’.Katy explains that this has never been her position; rather her aim has been to challenge the assumption that the only way to move our bodies is through exercise. Her work has been to expand our framework of human movement and provide a broader understanding of the shapes and volumes of movement required for human health. Katy and Jeannette also address issues raised in the listener's letter about gym culture and sports, noting that many of the negatives are perceived rather than actual or are to do with commercialization. They discuss the ubiquity of team sports across human cultures and the many positives that sport can provide, including natural movements—like throwing and catching—that are hard to get elsewhere in life.  Also in this episode Katy interviews Anna Yona, co-founder of the barefoot shoe company Wildling. Anna shares the origin story of Wildling and their expansion from children’s shoes into the adult market. Katy and Anna talk about favourite customer stories, teenage shoe choices and Wildling’s most recent venture—a rain boot—filling a much needed niche in the minimal shoe market. Books Mentioned:My Perfect Movement Plan by Katy BowmanI Know I Should Exercise, But... by Diana Hill & Katy Bowman Far From the Tree by Andrew Solomon Hunter-Gatherer Childhoods Edited by Barry Hewlett & Michael LambMade Possible by Our Dynamic Collective of Wonderful Sponsors:Movemate, dynamic active standing boards that invite movement and play into your workday, without disrupting your workflow; Venn Design, beautiful floor cushions and ball seats that keep you moving at home or at the office; Peluva, Five-toe minimalist sports shoes ideal for higher impact activities; Wildling, minimal footwear for toddlers, kids and adults made from natural materials; Correct Toes, soft silicone toe spacers that can be worn barefoot or in shoes and Smart Playrooms, design and products to keep you and your kids engaged and active at home; Thoughts/questions email us at [email protected] Voice on the Podcast: Read The Credits 

Try Katy's Virtual Studio Free for 7 Days!This Episode's Show NotesJoin Our Newsletter: Movement Colored GlassesKaty’s Virtual Studio - Try it Free for 7 Days!Katy Bowman and Jeannette Loram kick this episode off with a conversation about British walking idioms and nature-based language. They are then joined by Mark Sisson, author, former distance runner and founder of the minimal shoe company Peluva. Mark, Katy and Jeannette talk about human evolutionary history, walking, health and Mark’s latest book Born to Walk. They discuss how running has become the iconic fitness activity but Mark explains how most people would be better served by abundant walking—combined with some strength training and a small amount of higher intensity exercise—to create a more nourishing and less physically stressful movement diet.  Katy also has a conversation with Karri Bowen-Poole, founder of Smart Playrooms and one of the Move Your DNA sponsors. Smart Playrooms offer equipment and design services for indoor play and activity spaces. Katy and Karri discuss the ethos behind Smart Playrooms, the design process and Karri offers her genius recommendations for equipment to add to every home. Katy and Karri explain how to plan flexible and adjustable spaces so that your movement and play areas stay interesting and grow with your family. Books Mentioned:Landmarks by Robert MacfarlaneBorn to Walk by Mark Sisson & Brad Kearns The Primal Blueprint by Mark SissonBorn to Run by Mark McDougall I Know I Should Exercise, But... by Diana Hill & Katy Bowman Made Possible by Our Dynamic Collective of Wonderful Sponsors:Venn Design, beautiful floor cushions and ball seats that keep you moving at home or at the office; Smart Playrooms, design and products to keep you and your kids engaged and active at home; Wildling, minimal footwear for toddlers, kids and adults made from natural materials;  Correct Toes, soft silicone toe spacers that can be worn barefoot or in shoes; Movemate, dynamic active standing boards that invite movement and play into your workday, without disrupting your workflow and Peluva, Five-toe minimalist sports shoes ideal for higher impact activities. Thoughts/questions email us at [email protected] Voice on the Podcast: Read The Credits 

Try Katy's Virtual Studio Free for 7 Days!This Episode's Show NotesJoin Our Newsletter: Movement Colored GlassesKaty’s Virtual Studio - Try it Free for 7 Days!Biomechanist Katy Bowman and biologist Jeannette Loram discuss movement for the bendy body with their guest Dr Libby Hinsley, a doctor of physical therapy specializing in the treatment of hypermobility syndromes and chronic pain. Libby shares her personal and professional journey with hypermobility explaining what hypermobility is and the associated symptoms. Libby, Katy and Jeannette discuss the paradox that bendy bodies have large ranges of motion yet tense muscles and how a sedentary lifestyle is even more of a liability for people with hypermobility syndromes. Libby and Katy outline the ABCs of a movement program for bendy bodies that often struggle with proprioception and are easily fatigued. They emphasize the importance of higher load activities performed with very mindful attention to exercise form. They caution that smaller and slower movements are key whatever the exercise modality. Also in this episode, Katy has a conversation with Sohail Shariff of Movemate, creator of segmented active standing boards designed to be used while you work. Sohail explains the personal stories behind the product and its design. Katy shares her appreciation of the boards particularly how  these boards foster dynamic movement of the foot and ankle, something missing with traditional balance boards. Sohail and Katy also discuss the board's segmented design; the multiple articulations create a flowing but stable motion which means Katy can move and focus on work at the same time. Finally they discuss the value of the board in the therapeutic space particularly for those with a need for movement that soothes the nervous system. Books Mentioned:Yoga for Bendy People: Optimizing the Benefits of Yoga for Hypermobility by Libby Hinsley I Know I Should Exercise, But... by Diana Hill & Katy Bowman Made Possible by Our Dynamic Collective of Wonderful Sponsors:Smart Playrooms, design and products to keep you and your kids engaged and active at home; Movemate, dynamic active standing boards that invite movement and play into your workday, without disrupting your workflow; Correct Toes, soft silicone toe spacers that can be worn barefoot or in shoes; Peluva Five-toe minimalist sports shoes ideal for higher impact activities; Venn Design, beautiful floor cushions and ball seats that keep you moving at home or at the office and Wildling, minimal footwear for toddlers, kids and adults made from natural materials.  Thoughts/questions email us at [email protected] Voice on the Podcast: Read The Credits 

Try Katy's Virtual Studio Free for 7 Days!This Episode's Show Notes Join Our Newsletter: Movement Colored GlassesKaty’s Virtual Studio - Try it Free for 7 Days! Are you confused by all the social media messaging about muscle mass and strength training? Join us for this beefy episode all about muscle! Biomechanist Katy Bowman and biologist Jeannette Loram discuss the clinical term sarcopenia– age-related muscle decline–and distinguish it from muscle atrophy due to disuse and sedentary lifestyles. Katy and Jeannette tease apart the different elements of muscle decline; mass, strength and function. They debate how each of these can be measured and their importance. Their discussion centers on a listener's question seeking to understand what we should be doing physically to prevent muscle loss. Also in this episode, Katy has a conversation with Tyler Benner of Venn Design, a company creating dynamic seating for homes and offices. Tyler explains how his background in physics and sport have contributed to his creativity in product design. Tyler highlights his solar and sports series of Air Chairs and explains how he has created designs that look exactly like a planet or a basketball! He also introduces his latest venture; Strong Feet Athletics, creator of the first barefoot cycling shoe.  Books MentionedDynamic Aging by Katy Bowman Made Possible by Our Dynamic Collective of Wonderful Sponsors Wildling, minimal footwear for toddlers, kids and adults made from natural materials; Correct Toes, soft silicone toe spacers that can be worn barefoot or in shoes; Smart Playrooms, design and products to keep you and your kids engaged and active at home; Venn Design: beautiful floor cushions and ball seats that keep you moving at home or at the office; Peluva Five-toe minimalist sports shoes ideal for higher impact activities, and Movemate; dynamic active standing boards that invite movement and play into your workday, without disrupting your workflow. Thoughts/questions email us at [email protected] Voice on the Podcast: Read The Credits 

Try Katy's Virtual Studio Free for 7 Days!View This Episode's Show NotesJoin Our Newsletter: Movement Colored GlassesKaty’s Virtual StudioThis is a special episode with two features and several guests! In the first feature, biomechanist Katy Bowman is joined by psychologists Dr Diana Hill and Dr Kelly McGonigal. Katy and Diana have co-written a new book I know I should Exercise But… 44 Reasons We Don’t Move and How to Get Over Them and they came together with Kelly, author of the The Joy of Movement, to talk about personal obstacles to movement, movement frameworks & vocabulary and how to find your ‘movement genius’. In our second feature Katy welcomes author and masters athlete Brad Kearns, to talk about the minimalist five-toed shoe company Peluva, one of our podcast sponsors. Brad shares the early history of the company and how you go about making a minimalist shoe. Katy and Brad discuss the niche that Peluva fills in the minimal shoe market and Brad shares his favourite customer success stories. Books & Articles MentionedI Know I Should Exercise But…44 Reasons We Don’t Move and How to Get Over Them by Diana Hill & Katy BowmanThe Joy of Movement by Kelly McGonigal Born to Walk by Mark Sisson with Brad Kearns Made Possible by Our Dynamic Collective of Wonderful Sponsors Peluva Five-toe minimalist sports shoes ideal for higher impact activities, Wildling, minimal footwear for toddlers, kids and adults made from natural materials; Venn Design: beautiful floor cushions and ball seats that keep you moving at home or at the office; Movemate; dynamic active standing boards that invite movement and play into your workday, without disrupting your workflow; Smart Playrooms, design and products to keep you and your kids engaged and active at home; and Correct Toes, soft silicone toe spacers that can be worn barefoot or in shoes;Thoughts/questions email us at [email protected] Voice on the Podcast: Read The Credits