SSPX Excommunicated: History, Pope Leo and why it all goes back to Vatican II

On this week’s episode of “Jesuitical,” Zac Davis and Sebastian Gomes speak with America’s President and Editor in Chief, Sam Sawyer, S.J. to discuss the impact that U.S. bishops are having on politics, AI, and more. Bishops are speaking out against war, mass deportations, the death penalty and racism, and their voices are breaking through. In this episode, Zac, Sebastian and Sam talk about why they’re having a moment, the influence of Pope Leo, and the opportunities for shaping the future of A.I. Chapters: 00:00 Growing influence of Bishops on US politics 04:35 Opposing mass deportation  10:30 Engaging with the Trump Administration 14:05 Bishops are finding new ways to talk about issues 18:00 The influence of Pope Leo 22:43 Where Bishops stand on A.I. 29:54 How U.S. Bishops can implement Magnifica humanitas 32:55 Opportunities around A.I. Links:  The U.S. bishops are speaking out forcefully on politics—and finally being heard Top US bishop writes letter to Trump urging end to mass deportations of Haitians Why are there so few African American bishops? ‘The short answer is racism’ says Bishop Boxie Bishop Olson on racism Pope Francis to U.S. Catholic bishops: Oppose mass deportations Analysis: The U.S. bishops showed their unity on behalf of immigrants—and may have repaired their relationship to Rome Artificial Intelligence: United States Conference of Catholic Bishops  USCCB Positions on Artificial Intelligence Support Jesuitical by becoming a digital subscriber to America magazine at americamagazine.org/subscribe You can follow us on X and on Instagram @jesuiticalshow.   You can find us on Facebook at facebook.com/groups/jesuitical. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Schisms don’t happen often in the Catholic Church. Which makes Pope Leo’s recent excommunication of the Society of Saint Pius X big news. This week on Jesuitical, hosts Zac and Ashley speak to Shaun Blanchard, Senior Lecturer in Theology at the University of Notre Dame Australia, about the history of the SSPX, their illicit decision to ordain new bishops, and what their excommunication means for more traditional groups within the Catholic Church. Chapters: 00:00 Why we're talking about the SSPX 01:42 Why the SSPX was excommunicated 04:55 Why Archbishop Lefebvre rejected Vatican II 9:38 Lefebvre's problem with religious liberty 14:20 Was this a debate over liturgy? 18:00 Ordaining bishops crosses a line 21:33 How 17th c. Jansenism illuminates the crisis 28:45 Restricting the traditional Latin Mass 35:05 How excommunication works 38:52 Implications for the traditional Latin Mass 47:16 There's no going back on Vatican II 49:48 Learning to appreciate Vatican II Links:  Vatican declares excommunicated SSPX bishops, warns priests and lay faithful of schism Analysis: SSPX excommunications show what Pope Leo means by church ‘unity’ After SSPX excommunications, traditionalist Catholics face a difficult choice 5 years after Pope Francis’ Latin Mass restrictions, traditionalist Catholics reflect on ‘Traditionis Custodes’ After SSPX schism, some Catholics urge greater access to the older Latin Mass Latin Mass, schism and cardinals in the media: The liturgy wars are back (and never really left) Support Jesuitical by becoming a digital subscriber to America magazine at americamagazine.org/subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When President Trump took to Truth Social earlier this year and attacked Pope Leo for being “WEAK on Crime, and terrible for Foreign Policy,” most Catholics were understandably shocked. But a clash between a secular leader and the bishop of Rome is hardly without precedent. This week on “Jesuitical,” hosts Zac Davis and Ashley McKinless talk with Miles Pattendens, an expert on popes and papal conclaves, about the long and quirky history of feuds between popes and politicians. In Signs of the Times, Zac and Ashley discuss the Vatican rejection of a request from the German bishops to allow lay people to preach the homily at Mass. Plus, a look ahead at Pope Leo’s summer plans.  And in As One Friends Speak to Another, America Media’s O’Hare fellows—Brigid McCabe, Ed Desciak and Will Gualitiere—share some spiritual insights from a year working at the intersection of the church and the world.  Jesuitical listener survey 00:00 Context 2:47 Vatican says "no" to women preaching 12:07 Pope Leo's summer schedule 16:05 History of Catholic authority 19:46 The investiture controversy 26:03 Pastoral concern or power grabs? 34:27 Henry VIII vs. Popes 39:20 How the church lost power 43:10 Moral authority on the global stage 52:00 Donald Trump's attacks on Pope Leo 1:00:10 Fill out our listener survey! https://forms.gle/yggZcBKeXYKbWYpM7 1:01:12 Faith sharing with our Fellows! Learn about America Magazine's Joseph A. O’Hare, S.J., Postgraduate Media Fellowship: https://www.americamagazine.org/ohare-fellows Jesuitical listener survey: https://forms.gle/yggZcBKeXYKbWYpM7 Links: Vatican to German bishops: No lay people preaching homilies at Mass Extraordinary consistory signals Pope Leo’s push to work with cardinals on global challenges Pope Leo speaks out on SSPX ordinations and U.S.-Iran deal Pope Leo to accept Liberty Medal and address Americans on July 3 Electing the Pope in Early Modern Italy, 1450-1700 Support Jesuitical by becoming a digital subscriber to America Magazine! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week on “Jesuitical,” Zac and Ashley sit down with Luke Burgis, the director of the Cluny Institute at The Catholic University of America and the author of The One and the Ninety-Nine: Forging Identity in the Age of Social Contagion. They discuss why we join and leave tribes, how to form a “solid” self and what healthy group identity looks like. In Signs of the Times, Zac and Ashley discuss Vice President JD Vance’s new memoir on converting to Catholicism, the consecration of the United States to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and new statutes for the Vatican’s commission for the protection of minors. Plus, Pope Leo wraps up his successful trip to Spain on the Canary Islands—but has some trouble getting off them. And in As One Friend Speaks to Another, Zac shares what he’s thinking about going into his very first Father’s Day. 0:00 Intro 3:30 J.D. Vance’s new book “Communion” 9:36 U.S. bishops meet for annual meeting in Orlando 19:44 Pope Leo finishes Spain trip 21:39 Papal plane trouble 24:25 Interview with Luke Burgis 25:52 The parable of the lost sheep 31:16 The age of social contagion 33:56 What Luke learned in seminary 38:05 Is your community good for you? 42:27 People respond to aesthetics 46:30 The importance of distance 48:46 The Catholic Church is unique as a community 57:20 What is the Cluny Institute? 1:02:25 What about AI? 1:05:24 Canonization 1:08:07 As One Friend Speaks to Another Links: The One and the Ninety-Nine: Forging Identity in the Age of Social Contagion Learn more about the Cluny Institute JD Vance writes about his journey to Catholicism in his new book, ‘Communion’ Consecration 101: What the bishops’ upcoming consecration of the US to the Sacred Heart means Pope Leo XIV approves new statutes for child protection commission Pope Leo ends visit to Spain with a call to repent What’s on tap? Sancerre You can follow us on X and on Instagram @jesuiticalshow.   You can find us on Facebook at facebook.com/groups/jesuitical.  Please consider supporting Jesuitical by becoming a digital subscriber to America magazine at americamagazine.org/subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week on “Jesuitical”, Ashley McKinless and Zac Davis talk to Dianne Bergant, C.S.A.,  who taught Scripture at Catholic Theological Union in Chicago for 44 years. She also served as America’s Word columnist from 2002 to 2005. During her time at CTU, Sr. Dianne had one very famous student, Robert Prevost—the future Pope Leo XIV. With Sr. Dianne, Zac and Ashley discuss what it’s like to be the teacher of a future pope and how approaches to teaching Scripture have evolved over time. During Signs of the Times, Ashley and Zac unpack Pope Leo’s trip to Spain and a new Sagrada Familia Lego Set, and they talk sports with Catholic perspectives on the World Cup and NBA Finals—featuring some words from O’Hare Fellow Ed Desciak.  In “As One Friend Speaks to Another,” Ashley shares an exciting announcement. Links from the show: Pope Leo defends the unborn and migrants in historic speech to Spanish parliament More than one million attend Pope Leo’s Mass and procession in the heart of Madrid Pope Leo meets Bad Bunny in Madrid In Spain, Pope Leo denounces polarization and hails commitment to multilateralism Lego announces new set designed after Spain’s Sagrada Família basilica Oligarchs can’t ruin the World Cup  Celebrating faith and FIFA: Italian-American community welcomes soccer legends Your Catholic Guide to the 2026 N.B.A. Finals: Spurs Sisters vs. Villanova Knicks You can follow us on X and on Instagram @jesuiticalshow.   You can find us on Facebook at facebook.com/groups/jesuitical.  Support Jesuitical by becoming a digital subscriber to America magazine at americamagazine.org/subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week on “Jesuitical,” Zac and Ashley speak with Mary Kate Polanin, the executive editor of The Good Newsroom, the digital news outlet of the Archdiocese of New York. They discuss the important and changing role of diocesan communications, Catholics in the digital space and New York’s new archbishop. In Signs of the Times, Zac and Ashley discuss Pope Leo’s surprising and historic choice to lead the Vatican’s Dicastery for Communication and dig into the advice “Magnifica Humanitas” offers to each of us when it comes to navigating our relationship with A.I. Plus: Pope Leo heads to Spain on Saturday—and Bad Bunny is hoping they cross paths.  Links from the show: Pope Leo appoints president of EWTN News as head of Vatican communications America’s coverage of “Magnifica Humanitas” Bad Bunny wants to meet Pope Leo XIV. In Madrid, a crossover event is in the works. The Good Newsroom You can follow us on X and on Instagram @jesuiticalshow.   You can find us on Facebook at facebook.com/groups/jesuitical.  Please consider supporting Jesuitical by becoming a digital subscriber to America magazine at americamagazine.org/subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this bonus episode of “Jesuitical,” Ashley and Zac speak with two digital evangelization experts who helped create the Vatican’s study group report on the digital environment as part of the Synod on Synodality. Kim Daniels directs the Initiative on Catholic Social Thought and Public Life at Georgetown University, and José Manuel de Urquidi runs the Evangelization Lab. Both were synod delegates, along with then-Cardinal Robert Prevost (the future Pope Leo XIV), at the global sessions of the synod in Rome in 2023 and 2024.  They discuss: 00:00 What are the Synod Study Groups? 7:10 How Pope Leo has shaped synodality 15:16 How influencers challenge church jurisdiction 28:30 Accompanying digital evangelizers 33:40 Converting to real communities Links: Study Group 3’s final report on the Digital Environment The Initiative on Catholic Social Thought and Public Life Evangelization Lab Coverage of Pope Leo’s encyclical “Magnifica Humanitas” You can follow us on X and on Instagram @jesuiticalshow.   You can find us on Facebook at facebook.com/groups/jesuitical.  Support Jesuitical by becoming a digital subscriber to America magazine at americamagazine.org/subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week on Jesuitical: A feed drop of this week's special “Inside the Vatican” roundtable, a discussion of “Magnifica Humanitas,” Pope Leo’s groundbreaking first encyclical on protecting the human person in the age of artificial intelligence. Host Colleen Dulle sits down with her co-host and senior Vatican correspondent, Gerard O’Connell, as well as America’s president and editor in chief, Sam Sawyer, S.J. They discuss the document’s key takeaways, how it is being received in Silicon Valley, Pope Leo’s challenge for every Catholic in the A.I. age and much more.  Chapters: 0:00 Intro 1:11 Pope Leo present for the launch of his own encyclical 4:21 How the encyclical is being received by the tech community 8:43 Magnifica Humanitas on the growth of Catholic social teaching 13:16 Acknowledging the Church’s role in slavery 15:53 Exploring Pope Leo’s ecclesiology 22:30 Leo’s concrete recommendations for A.I. 32:30 How lay people can deal with A.I. 37:40 Outro Links: Read “Magnifica Humanitas” Pope Leo’s first encyclical tackles A.I., power and human dignity Pope Leo XIV makes historic apology for the Catholic Church’s role in legitimizing slavery Why Pope Leo’s new encyclical quotes Gandalf: Literary images of hope and faith in ‘Magnifica Humanitas’ A capitalist (priest) reads ‘Magnifica Humanitas’ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week on the “Jesuitical” podcast, Ashley McKinless and Zac Davis speak to theologian and legal scholar Cathleen Kaveny about why Catholics seem obsessed with questions of sexual morality. They were prompted to dig into the historical development of Catholic sexual ethics after Pope Leo said in a press conference, “We tend to think that when the church is talking about morality, that the only issue of morality is sexual. And in reality, I believe there are much greater, more important issues…” 00:00 Leo's comments on sexual morality 4:08 What Scripture says 6:05 How Catholic teaching developed 9:30 What is "natural law"? 16:37 How Catholics became obsessed with sex 20:26 JPII's "theology of the body" 24:41 Sex and justice 28:50 Sex, confession and salvation 36:35 A healthy approach to sex Links: Pope Leo speaks on same-sex blessings, migration and more on plane back to Rome Heaven and hell in post-Vatican II Catholicism: How to move from fear to love You can follow us on X and on Instagram @jesuiticalshow.   You can find us on Facebook at facebook.com/groups/jesuitical.  Support Jesuitical by becoming a digital subscriber to America magazine at americamagazine.org/subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Jesuitical co-host Ashley McKinless and producer Sebastian Gomes speak to Michael W. Higgins about the spiritual master, Father Henri Nouwen (1932-1996). They explore Nouwen’s “wounded healer” approach to ministry, his brokenness and vulnerability, and his impact on contemporary Catholic thought. In “Signs of the Times,” Ashley and Zac discuss Secretary of State Marco Rubio’s visit to Pope Leo, plans for a border wall through a pilgrimage site, a cosmetics mogul turned Catholic priest, and when customer service hung up on Pope Leo. 00:00 Who is Henri Nouwen? 2:51 Pope Leo meets Marco Rubio 7:42 A border wall through a pilgrimage site? 10:40 A cosmetics mogul turned Catholic priest 12:39 Customer service hangs up on Pope Leo 15:40 You need to know Henri Nouwen 18:31 Henri Nouwen was an enigma 25:14 Nouwen's writings 31:23 How Nouwen understood priesthood 36:54 Intimacy, celibacy and homosexuality 41:17 Nouwen, the wounded healer 44:52 Good ministry isn't performative 48:39 How Nouwen prayed 58:00 Faith sharing: overcoming performative piety Links: Pope Leo XIV’s First Year Pope Leo meets with Marco Rubio amid Trump’s personal attacks Catholic diocese fights Trump administration plan to seize pilgrimage site for border wall Cosmetics millionaire turned seminarian, he’d give fortune ‘back a million times’ for Jesus Story of customer service agent hanging up on Leo shows pope’s ‘normal’ side "Genius Born of Anguish: The Life and Legacy of Henri Nouwen" 2026 Henri Nouwen Conference: "Longing for Home: The Prophetic Witness of Henri Nouwen in a Wounded World" Henri Nouwen Society Henri Nouwen: How to (actually) pray without ceasing The Monk and The Cripple by Henri Nouwen, 1980 Podcast Deep Dive: The first American pope—how it happened and what it means Performative piety: Why liturgy is not a space for self-expression Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices