'The Axis of Upheaval': Beth Sanner

Michael and Andy speak with Beth Sanner, former CIA analyst and Deputy Director of National Intelligence for Mission Integration, about the national security challenges facing the next U.S. president. They explore the complex relationships between Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea, rising tensions in the South China Sea, and the ongoing conflict in Ukraine. They also examine how these geopolitical dynamics impact global stability and discuss the fine line between geopolitical and cyber threats.

Andy talks with Dr. Christine Michienzi, who served as the Senior Technology Advisor for the Pentagon’s Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition & Sustainment and as the Chief Technology Officer for the Industrial Base Policy office. Dr. Michienzi explains the national security vulnerabilities in U.S. supply chains for essential minerals and materials used in key defense hardware like electronics, satellites, weapons systems and ammunition. She discusses China’s dominance in these critical supply chains and shares strategies to bolster domestic production and strengthen international partnerships.

Michael talks with former National Counterterrorism Center Director Christy Abizaid, who shares her extensive experiences in the intelligence community. She discusses the evolution of her career from intelligence analyst to policymaker and leader in counterterrorism, emphasizing the importance of integrity, objectivity, and the need for intelligence officials to accurately inform policy. Abizaid also highlights the challenges of navigating crises, the significance of being present in decision-making rooms, and the lessons learned from her unique perspective on both sides of the intelligence and policy divide.

Michael talks with former CIA Deputy Chief of Staff Nick Shapiro, former Deputy Director of CIA for Science and Technology Dawn Meyerriecks, and former Director of the agency’s elite Special Activities Center Brian Carbaugh about their new class on MasterClass: The Art of Intelligence. Nick helped organize the class on MasterClass with Michael, Dawn, and Brian who were given authorization to share their real-life experiences and the lessons they learned about leadership, critical thinking, and risk management. The class on MasterClass is humorous, engaging, and enlightening. And in this episode of Intelligence Matters, the four discuss their experiences arranging and taking part in the class on MasterClass.

Andy talks with Matt McKnight, General Manager for Biosecurity at Ginkgo Bioworks, about the new frontier of global threats posed by weaponized cell engineering. Matt discusses the need for a comprehensive global monitoring and early detection system, enhanced international cooperation, and a unified defense approach to mitigate the potentially catastrophic impacts of biological events, whether accidental or malicious.

Michael speaks with former Israeli National Security Advisor Eyal Hulata, now a senior international fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, about recent military strikes against Hezbollah, the strategic implications for Iran, and the need for a comprehensive agreement to secure long-term stability in Lebanon. Eyal also warns of the risk of Iran pursuing nuclear weapons and highlights the importance of international support for the Iranian people. Their conversation took place just before Israel’s ground offensive in southern Lebanon, and Tuesday's Iranian missile barrage. 

Michael talks with Bloomberg senior writer Stephanie Baker about her new book, Punishing Putin: Inside the Global Economic War to Bring Down Russia, which examines the unprecedented economic statecraft waged by the U.S. and its European allies in response to Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. The book evaluates the effectiveness of sanctions, how Russia is enduring them, and what may happen next.

Michael and Andy discuss their recent travels and the bleak prospects for resolving conflicts in Gaza and Ukraine, Taiwan’s preparedness for a potential Chinese attack, and the unfolding crisis in Venezuela. Michael also shares his son’s podcast, "3rd & 33", which focuses on college football.

Michael explores the world of leadership analysis with former CIA analyst Jennifer Welch. Now the Chief Geoeconomics Analyst for Bloomberg Economics, Jennifer discusses the art and science of crafting detailed profiles of world leaders—from understanding their personal histories to deciphering their strategic mindsets. She reveals how leadership analysis illuminates the human element in global affairs and can make or break diplomatic negotiations.

Michael talks with Israeli intelligence expert Uri Bar-Joseph, who dissects the stunning failure of Israeli intelligence ahead of the October 7th Hamas attack—a “perfect failure” that shook the foundations of Israel’s vaunted security apparatus. Tracing the roots of this debacle back decades, Bar-Joseph discusses the fatal flaw in Israel’s national security strategy: prioritizing military might over diplomatic engagement. It’s part of Uri’s new book in Hebrew, 'Beyond the Iron Wall.'