Continuous Agitation

One day I’m paid six figures for a collection of my photographs, and the next day I’m offered less than $500. So which is it? Which one is the real value?It’s both. Neither.How do you quote a commercial gig when you have no idea whether the person on the phone (email to be honest, it’s always email) is expecting $1,000 or $10,000? Bill says you have to go the extra mile and do three versions of your estimate: small (streamlined), medium (realistic), and large (bells and whistles). I (Jay) have done that, but I’m lazy and deliberate and it takes me all damn day, which is why I’d rather get a quick gut check first. I might say: “It’s fine if you don’t know the budget, but do you think it’s closer to $500, $5,000, or $25,000?” That answer, if they have the patience to give me one, is often effective at getting us in the right universe.What does a photo shoot cost? Well, what does a house cost?Heather Morton’s State of the Industry is now behind a well-deserved paywall: https://hmphotoprof.substack.com/p/2026-state-of-the-photo-industryBut she posts plenty of rich analysis, most of which is free on Substack and Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hmphotoprof/Find us:Yell at us or with us on Substack: https://continuousagitation.substack.comOur big dumb faces on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ContinuousAgitationWrite to us: [email protected] Bill's newsletter, Art + Math: artandmath.substack.comFollow Jay: @jayfram  /  jayfram.comFollow Bill: @sawalich  /  sawalich.comRate and review Continuous Agitation on Apple Podcasts — it actually helps.

These week’s topic is very important: If you’re stranded on a desert island, which lighting kit are you bringing along?I’ve spent my life lugging around heavy strobes (studio flashes), and I dream of replacing the whole mess with LEDs so I can see what the light is doing, not to mention not popping flashes in my subject’s face. But for reasons you’ll hear, Bill half convinces me I have to keep both kits.You know what I quit.Gear we name-check:Dynalite (R.I.P.)Speedotron (remarkably, still in production)Lowel Tota-Light (a classic I will never surrender no matter how much I don’t use it)Profoto (B1, B10, A10, Acute, Pro-11)Elinchrom (THREE)GodoxBroncolor (Move)Nanlite (PavoTube)Aputure (1200d)Amaran (the CUTEST little sources)Litepanel Astras (hate)Lume CubeKino FloPhotek SunbusterBut for the desert island, I would suggest one of those expensive balloon canopy things, because then you could float on it to escape. Find us:Yell at us or with us on Substack: https://continuousagitation.substack.comOur big dumb faces on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ContinuousAgitationWrite to us: [email protected] Bill's newsletter, Art + Math: artandmath.substack.comFollow Jay: @jayfram  /  jayfram.comFollow Bill: @sawalich  /  sawalich.comRate and review Continuous Agitation on Apple Podcasts — it actually helps.

This week on Continuous Agitation: why everybody's rate is going up except yours.Client budgets are down, while the cost of everything that goes into photography (equipment, crew, gigabytes, snacks) is up up up. I’m not complaining that their rates have gone up; I’m complaining that mine haven’t. But the important thing is that I’m still complaining.Also, why is everybody happy but me? Find us:Yell at us or with us on Substack: https://continuousagitation.substack.comOur big dumb faces on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ContinuousAgitationWrite to us: [email protected] Bill's newsletter, Art + Math: artandmath.substack.comFollow Jay: @jayfram  /  jayfram.comFollow Bill: @sawalich  /  sawalich.comRate and review Continuous Agitation on Apple Podcasts — it actually helps.

Video Much Much Harder, Say Longtime Still Photographers– The OnionThis is an actual Onion headline. Or rather, it would be, if anyone ever listened to me. Today we take a look at the differences between getting hired to make photographs vs. films. (I like to say film because it makes me sound more artistic.) I love movies and film and, conceptually, I love to see my pictures move. So why do I dread video jobs, or worse, video + photo jobs?Because it’s difficult to do well, that’s why. And why does video pay worse for more work? Fight me."I think everything is hard if you care about it. And I think our world is too full of people who discount the expertise that other people bring to things."– Someone smartFind us:Yell at us or with us on Substack: https://continuousagitation.substack.comOur big dumb faces on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ContinuousAgitationWrite to us: [email protected] Bill's newsletter, Art + Math: artandmath.substack.comFollow Jay: @jayfram  /  jayfram.comFollow Bill: @sawalich  /  sawalich.comRate and review Continuous Agitation on Apple Podcasts — it actually helps.

How do you handle a good client who becomes difficult? We discuss slow payment, unexpected image use, and how good communication skills are your most valuable asset. Jay describes an annual report/image library shoot for a publicly traded company where 30-day terms weren’t met; after 57 days and a new rush request for more images, he considers withholding delivery, worries about seeming unreasonable, and sends an email to say I’m mad as hell and I’m not gonna take it anymore if that’s ok?Separately, Jay sees his interior photo used in a New York Times app ad despite being licensed only for unpaid marketing, debating whether to invoice, let it slide, or message the client tactfully and adjust future pricing, while weighing relationship value, leverage, and practical licensing."Not needing work is the ultimate negotiating position."Find us:Follow Jay on Instagram: @jayframFollow Bill on Instagram and Threads: @sawalichRead Bill's newsletter, Art + Math: artandmath.substack.comJay's photography: jayfram.comBill's photography: sawalich.comWrite to us: [email protected] / [email protected] and review Continuous Agitation on Apple Podcasts — it actually helps.

This one’s a Part Two. If you haven’t listened to the last episode – “Let Them Eat Cake” – go do that first.We pick up where we left off on the unlimited (sa)usage debate that started last episode, this time getting into the practical reality of how we bid jobs, when we mention usage/licensing, and when we don’t. And why the idealistic advice to "hold the line on licensing" doesn't work the way it used to.In the second half Bill introduces a possible future: retainers. Shooting multiple times a year for a client for less than you might have charged before, but making more than you would for a one-off shoot. Win sorta win? Bill also uses the C-word and Jay doesn’t like it."You give the same bid three times and you don't get it, and you say to yourself: I don't think this costs that anymore."Links:@asksternrep — Andrea Stern’s (generally) great advice resource on InstagramASMP — American Society of Media PhotographersMike Kelly, architecture photographerWonderful Machine — wonderfulmachine.com (commonly referenced resource for licensing and bidding)Find us:Follow Jay on Instagram: @jayframFollow Bill on Instagram and Threads: @sawalichRead Bill's newsletter, Art + Math: artandmath.substack.comJay's photography: jayfram.comBill's photography: sawalich.comWrite to us: [email protected] / [email protected] and review Continuous Agitation on Apple Podcasts — it actually helps.

Is usage licensing dead? Not exactly. But the business it was built for doesn't really exist anymore. Print is all but gone. Social media now accounts for 80% (!) of ad spend in the US. Clients want the C word [rhymes with shmontent] by the dump truck load and there are ten times as many people willing to shoot it.@asksternrep, a prominent photo rep with an excellent advice page, recently posted a follower’s question on her Instagram feed and the comment section got real spicy. Her advice to photographers losing bids over usage: be the best photographer you can be, and clients will pay for limited licensing. Will they though? We try to unpack what actually happened to the commercial photography market, why work-for-hire is the real threat, and why "hold the line on licensing" is good advice for 5% of photographers all of the time, a few more photographers some of the time, but never all photographers all of the time. "Telling photographers to do better is an outdated answer to a structural shift in the industry."Links:@asksternrep — Andrea Stern’s (generally) great advice resource on InstagramASMP — American Society of Media PhotographersFind us:Follow Jay on Instagram: @jayframFollow Bill on Instagram and Threads: @sawalichRead Bill's newsletter, Art + Math: artandmath.substack.comJay's photography: jayfram.comBill's photography: sawalich.comWrite to us: [email protected] / [email protected] and review Continuous Agitation on Apple Podcasts — it actually helps.

The Danziger Gallery is showing a large-format AI-generated color version of Ansel Adams' Moonrise, Hernandez, New Mexico. Prompt: make a realistic color version of Ansel Adams' iconic Moonrise over Hernandez. Reaction: gross. But also, this is the AI version of Richard Prince shenanigans. Which pulls us into Prince's Untitled Cowboys — Marlboro ads torn from magazines, rephotographed, sold for millions — and one real cowboy photographer describing what it feels like to watch someone copy your life's work and sell it for $3 million. From there: do we use AI, and what for? Jay uses it as a marketing coach. Bill mostly avoids it for not exactly ethical reasons. Harder question: if a client can get a convincing image from a prompt in an hour, why should they call us? Bill says it’s a business case: if the people who need appealing to – the audience – are moved by interacting with real images and film, and are actively turned off by AI facsimile, then AI ain’t gonna cut it. "Knowing something real happened matters to me in the context of viewing photographs."  Links:Ansel Adams Moonrise, Hernandez, NM – the real oneThe AI version of Ansel’s Moonrise, along with a new statement released by the Ansel Adams TrustGiuseppe Lo Sciavo at Danziger GalleryRichard Prince “Untitled Cowboy” Sam Abell’s iconic cowboy photographBill’s Norm Clasen profileBill’s Lynn Goldsmith Copyright StoryCal NewportAuthor of Deep Work; Jay heard him on the Offline podcast talking about AI and the atrophy of difficulty Follow Jay on Instagram: @jayframFollow Bill on Instagram and Threads: @sawalichRead Bill's newsletter, Art + Math: artandmath.substack.comJay's photography: jayfram.comBill’s photography: sawalich.comWrite to us: [email protected] / [email protected] Rate and review Continuous Agitation on Apple Podcasts — it actually helps.

Continuous Agitation — Episode 1: Why Are We Doing This?This first episode is an origin story — why two working photographers decided to start recording their phone calls and sharing them with strangers. We’ve been having these conversations for years and figured other photographers might get something out of it. But also: Jay can't find much content that reflects the business reality he’s actually living in. Not tutorials. Not influencers teaching us how to establish a personal vision. Just plain talk about commercial photography from people who are in it, confounded by it, and not pretending otherwise. We touch on AI image generation — and the fact that it’s not photography. We were both relieved to hear Rob Haggart and Heather Morton say publicly that they wish it never happened. Not that that solves anything. We talk about what has actually changed in the business, and the disorienting experience of knowing what a job used to be worth, having no idea what it's worth now, and wondering if the confusion is a character flaw or just an accurate read of the situation. "What's the value of an image with a lifespan of literally hours?" That's kind of the whole show. But, you know, like not that bad.Links to stuff we mention: Chris Buck — PhotographerChris Buck’s Lena Dunham Blog PostA Photo Editor — Rob Haggart's long-running blog about the photography businessHeather Morton (@hmphotoprof) on InstagramRob and Heather on “The Grain” Podcast about “Photography vs. AI”Adam FussMan Ray — Artist and photographer; inventor of the Rayograph, the original camera-free photographic imageTheo Welling — Photographer, mutual friend; "see if you can figure out what's going on."  Find us: Follow Jay on Instagram: @jayframFollow Bill on Instagram and Threads: @sawalichRead Bill's newsletter, Art + Math: artandmath.substack.comJay's photography: jayfram.comBill’s photography: sawalich.comWrite to us: [email protected] / [email protected] Rate and review Continuous Agitation on Apple Podcasts — it actually helps.