Art and Obsolescence

For this episode we are back in the conservation lab, visiting with Carol Mancusi-Ungaro, Melva Bucksbaum Associate Director for Conservation and Research at the Whitney Museum of American Art. If you were to visit the Whitney today and see the lab and the department that Carol leads, you might find it hard to believe that none of it existed back when she joined the Whitney. In 2001 Carol not only became the museum’s first director of conservation, but also its first staff conservator. In our chat we hear all about the incredible work that Carol has done over the past 20+ years at the Whitney, but the story goes much further back, prior to arriving at the Whitney, Carol spent a prior 20+ stint as the first conservator at the Menil Collection in Houston. Having originally trained and studied art that was centuries old, at the Menil Carol suddenly found herself dealing with modern and contemporary art and all the special and unique challenges that emerge when a conservator is faced with art where the paint has barley just dried. Carol found that talking directly to artists and their collaborators about the practical and technical aspects of their work was crucial in her work as a conservator — long before this was a common thing for conservators to do. This interview practice was eventually formalized and became the Artist Documentation Program, generating hours upon hours of footage of Carol and her former colleagues chatting with artists like Ann Hamilton, Ed Ruscha, Sarah Sze, Josh Kline, just to name a few. Today artist interviews have become a central part of conservation practice, so I was very excited to sit down with Carol, to interview the interviewer and hear what she has learned over decades as a leader the field of conservation.Links from the conversation with Carol> Artist Documentation Project: https://adp.menil.org/> The Whitney Replication Committee: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/01/11/the-custodians-onward-and-upward-with-the-arts-ben-lernerGet access to exlusive content - join us on Patreon!> https://patreon.com/artobsolescenceJoin the conversation:https://www.instagram.com/artobsolescence/Support artistsArt and Obsolescence is a non-profit podcast, sponsored by the New York Foundation for the Arts, and we are committed to equitably supporting artists that come on the show. Help support our work by making a tax deductible gift through NYFA here: https://www.artandobsolescence.com/donate

Today we are visiting with the one and only Shirin Neshat, who hardly needs introduction. If you’ve ever taken an art history class that covers video art, photography, international cinema, or for that matter contemporary opera, you’ve definitely seen Shirin’s work. Since her debut exhibition in 1993 at Franklin Furnace, Shirn’s work has offered a deeply personal yet universal perspective on womanhood, power, corruption, trauma, and the female body as the battleground of social and political manipulation. All of this in Shirin’s work is of course informed very much by her experience as an Iranian immigrant, who moved to the US at age seventeen just prior to the revolution, and since then has lived ostensibly in exile. These themes in her work however are quite universal, which is something Shirin spoke to expensively in our chat when we discussed her latest work which just so happens to be on view as we speak. Her latest exhibition at Gladstone Gallery titled The Fury is on view until March 4th, you’ve got a whole month to check it out, and this show features new works including a photo series and a large video installation in Shirin’s signature black and white with two channels of video on opposite walls, that harkens all the way back to her iconic 1998 video installation Turbulent. We discuss all this and more in our chat, as well as Shirin’s perspective on the ongoing protests and movement in Iran sparked by the death of Masha Amini — which of course is deeply related to the themes that have been present in Shirin’s work for decades.Today’s episode, and the many more artist interviews coming your way this year was made possible thanks to generous support from wonderful folks at the Kramlich Art Foundation.Links from the conversation with Shirin> The Fury: https://www.gladstonegallery.com/exhibition/10596/the-fury/installation-views Get access to exlusive content - join us on Patreon!> https://patreon.com/artobsolescenceJoin the conversation:https://www.instagram.com/artobsolescence/Support artistsArt and Obsolescence is a non-profit podcast, sponsored by the New York Foundation for the Arts, and we are committed to equitably supporting artists that come on the show. Help support our work by making a tax deductible gift through NYFA here: https://www.artandobsolescence.com/donate

We are closing out 2022 with highlights from eight incredible artists that graced the show this year. Tune in to hear the voices of Gary Hill, American Artist, WangShui, Meriem Bennani, Alan Michelson, Tourmaline, Arthur Jafa, and Hito Steyerl discussing how they think about the preservation and documentation of their work, as well as intimate inside glimpses into their practice and studios. Sending a huge heartfelt thanks to everyone all of the listeners that made 2022 such a memorable year for the show – wishing you all the best and see you in the new year! xoGet access to exlusive content - join us on Patreon!> https://patreon.com/artobsolescenceJoin the conversation:https://www.instagram.com/artobsolescence/Support artistsArt and Obsolescence is a non-profit podcast, sponsored by the New York Foundation for the Arts, and we are committed to equitably supporting artists that come on the show. Help support our work by making a tax deductible gift through NYFA here: https://www.artandobsolescence.com/donate

For our 60th episode, we are visiting with artist, writer, filmmaker, and educator, Hito Steyerl. In addition to being able to find Hito’s work in museums, biennales, collections, and bookshelves all over the world, a good deal of her single-channel moving image work can be watched freely online, which of course is a good thing, but Hito’s work has also explored the darker side of what the global dispersion of images can entail – starting with her deeply personal pre-internet short film Lovely Andrea. Hito’s work is often deeply socially and politically engaged – taking on issues of war, labor, surveillance, climate change, and more – and this social engagement and critique extends of course to her writing. Hito is not shy about turning her lens onto corruption that exists within the art world itself, as she did in her 2017 book, Duty Free Art: Art in the Age of Planetary Civil War – a book whose initial seed of inspiration was realizing that an artwork of her own had been purchased merely as an investment and shipped directly to a tax-haven Freeport art storage facility. Hito’s installations are often ambitious in scale and immersion, and are incredibly spatially away of your presence – it is quite common to find a place for yourself as a viewer to sit, rest, and enjoy the work – in a way that is very integrated with the installation itself. In our chat we cover so much ground from Hito’s origins in film-making, to going inside how she conceives of and creates her immersive installations, as well as some pretty real feelings about long-term preservation of contemporary art in the age of anthropogenic climate change and global energy crisis. This episode was made possible thanks to generous support from lovely folks at the Kramlich Art Foundation. Tune in to hear Hito’s story! Links from the conversation with Hito> How Not to be Seen: A Fucking Didactic Educational .MOV File, 2013: https://www.artforum.com/video/hito-steyerl-how-not-to-be-seen-a-fucking-didactic-educational-mov-file-2013-51651> Lovely Andrea, 2007: https://vimeo.com/533265768> Duty Free Art, Art in the Age of Planetary Civil War: https://www.versobooks.com/books/2992-duty-free-art> Radical Friends: https://www.furtherfield.org/radical-friends-book/ Get access to exlusive content - join us on Patreon!> https://patreon.com/artobsolescenceJoin the conversation:https://www.instagram.com/artobsolescence/Support artistsArt and Obsolescence is a non-profit podcast, sponsored by the New York Foundation for the Arts, and we are committed to equitably supporting artists that come on the show. Help support our work by making a tax deductible gift through NYFA here: https://www.artandobsolescence.com/donate

This week on the show we are visiting with Rebecca Cleman, executive director of Electronic Arts Intermix. EAI has of coursed already come up on the show many times, and recently in episode 54 we visited with their director of preservation and media collections – today we will be going deeper into this history and evolution of EAI, and getting a look behind the scenes of an organization that has been incredibly central to the history of video art, and incredibly impactful for countless artists. At EAI Rebecca has built a long and rewarding career of working with and collaborating artists – starting years ago focused on their distribution program, sitting down with artists and facilitating the hard work to ensure that their work made it into the hands of curators, art history professors classrooms, and ultimately in front of your eyeballs in a way that honored the artist’s vision and intentions. In 2019 Rebecca stepped up as executive director, and in just a few short years has already left an unmistakable imprint on the organization, stewarding EAI through a move of their HQ, growth of their team, and really doing some important work to think through what enabling distribution means in an age where artists have infinite means at their own fingertips. Rebecca’s own professional journey is a great story and is just bursting with tales of the evolution of the art world in NYC, and life-long relationships with artists that she has built over time. Tune in to hear Rebecca’s story!Links from the conversation with Rebecca> EAI: https://www.eai.org Get access to exlusive content - join us on Patreon!> https://patreon.com/artobsolescenceJoin the conversation:https://twitter.com/ArtObsolescencehttps://www.instagram.com/artobsolescence/Support artistsArt and Obsolescence is a non-profit podcast, sponsored by the New York Foundation for the Arts, and we are committed to equitably supporting artists that come on the show. Help support our work by making a tax deductible gift through NYFA here: https://www.artandobsolescence.com/donate

This week on the show we are traveling to Karlsruhe, Germany to chat with art conservator Morgane Stricot. You wouldn’t know it considering the technologically complex works of art that she cares for today, but Morgane’s first love in conservation was incredibly traditional, initially being drawn to frescos and murals. Fast forward to today and she is wrapping up a PhD in applying a media archeological approach to the conservation of time-based media art in the context of the collection of the ZKM, where she serves as their Senior Media and Digital Art Conservator. The approach that Morgane is taking with conservation at ZKM is quite distinct – and a refreshing reminder that the technologies that underpin works of art are also worthy of study and preservation in and of their own right. What does it look like when art serves a supplementary purpose of helping to preserve the cultural context of the history of technology? Tune in to find out, and to hear Morgane’s story!Links from the conversation with Morgane> ZKM: https://zkm.de/> PAMAL Group: https://pamal.org/en/pamal-group-en/ Get access to exlusive content - join us on Patreon!> https://patreon.com/artobsolescenceJoin the conversation:https://twitter.com/ArtObsolescencehttps://www.instagram.com/artobsolescence/Support artistsArt and Obsolescence is a non-profit podcast, sponsored by the New York Foundation for the Arts, and we are committed to equitably supporting artists that come on the show. Help support our work by making a tax deductible gift through NYFA here: https://www.artandobsolescence.com/donate

This week on the show we travel to Switzerland to visit with media conservator Martina Haidvogl. We’ve heard the conservation program at the Bern Academy of the Arts mentioned a few times on the show so far, as for a long time it was really the only formal conservation training program that had time-based media as a specialization. With time spent in Bern, and as an alum of the Academy of Fine Arts in Vienna, Martina was one of the few first conservators to arrive in the US with formal time-based media conservation training, and now co-directs the Bern Contemporary Art and Media conservation program, so suffice it to say, she’s kind a big deal. In our chat we hear about Martina’s formative experiences in her early years training as a conservator, the accomplished eight-plus years she spent at SFMOMA’s first-ever time-based media art conservator, and the deeply important work she is doing now to train the next generation. We’ll also hear about how Martina is thinking through how the conservation profession and the arts ecosystem needs to adapt and evolve to a rapidly changing world around us. Tune in to hear Martina’s story!Links from the conversation with Martina> About Team Media at SFMOMA: https://www.sfmoma.org/read/team-media-action-contemplation/> About caring for technology-based artworks and design objects: https://www.sfmoma.org/read/theres-no-app-adventures-conserving-old-tech/> On SFMOMA's MediaWiki documentation platform: https://stedelijkstudies.com/journal/reimagining-the-object-record-sfmomas-mediawiki/> About the HKB's Contemporary Art and Media training program: https://incca.org/training-programme-bern-academy-arts-switzerlandhttps://www.hkb.bfh.ch/en/studies/master/conservation-restoration/> Symposium Contemporary Art Conservation Revisited: 20 years later (program & videos): https://www.hkb.bfh.ch/conscareGet access to exlusive content - join us on Patreon!> https://patreon.com/artobsolescenceJoin the conversation:https://twitter.com/ArtObsolescencehttps://www.instagram.com/artobsolescence/Support artistsArt and Obsolescence is a non-profit podcast, sponsored by the New York Foundation for the Arts, and we are committed to equitably supporting artists that come on the show. Help support our work by making a tax deductible gift through NYFA here: https://www.artandobsolescence.com/donate

This week on the show we are continuing to expand our perspective on the time-based media conservation ecosystem in Taiwan, with our guest Yuhsien Chen. In the handfull of years that she has been dedicated to time-based media conservation Yuhsien has been up to some incredibly exciting things. We heard her name come up back in episode 46 when visiting with her colleague and collaborator Tzu-Chuan Lin, about work they did together at the National Taiwan Museum of Art – and as you’ll hear in today’s chat there’s so much more. For years now Yuhsien been leading the Save Media Art Project in Taiwan, and fascinatingly just wrapped up what I’m guessing is probably the first Fulbright scholarship focused on time-based media conservation, which brought her to New York City where for the past few months she has been embedded within both the museum of modern art – and Rhizome. Yuhsien however has been keen to find a way to carve out her niche in her hometown, and all of the information and practice that she observed and absorbed during her Fullbright has led some pretty surprising conclusions. Tune in to hear Yuhsien’s story!Links from the conversation with Yuhsien> https://savemediaart.wixsite.com/sma-tw Get access to exlusive content - join us on Patreon!> https://patreon.com/artobsolescenceJoin the conversation:https://twitter.com/ArtObsolescencehttps://www.instagram.com/artobsolescence/Support artistsArt and Obsolescence is a non-profit podcast, sponsored by the New York Foundation for the Arts, and we are committed to equitably supporting artists that come on the show. Help support our work by making a tax deductible gift through NYFA here: https://www.artandobsolescence.com/donate

Since 1991 when he somewhat accidentally landed a curatorial position at the Guggenheim, Jon Ippolito has been passionately dedicated to building curatorial projects, research initiatives, and collaborations revolving around the preservation of time-based media art. Through projects such as the variable media questionnaire, exhibitions such as Seeing Double, and books such as Re-collection: Art, New Media, and Social Memory (co-authored with Rick Rinehart), Jon’s thinking about how to approach the documentation and preservation of art has unquestionably influenced a whole generation of professionals – not least of which through his role as director of the digital curation program at the University of Maine where he has been for the past twenty years. Tune in to hear Jon’s story!Links from the conversation with Jon> http://three.org/ippolito/> https://digitalcommons.library.umaine.edu/fac_monographs/198/> https://umaine.edu/newmedia/people/jon-ippolito/Get access to exlusive content - join us on Patreon!> https://patreon.com/artobsolescenceJoin the conversation:https://twitter.com/ArtObsolescencehttps://www.instagram.com/artobsolescence/Support artistsArt and Obsolescence is a non-profit podcast, sponsored by the New York Foundation for the Arts, and we are committed to equitably supporting artists that come on the show. Help support our work by making a tax deductible gift through NYFA here: https://www.artandobsolescence.com/donate

This week we’re visiting with media conservator and conservator Caroline Gil Rodríguez, who last year became director of preservation and media collections at the Electronic Arts Intermix. EAI played an incredibly pivotal role in cementing video art’s place in history, and there Caroline is doing exciting work not only to safeguard their important collection, but also to help shape and rethink what role a place like EAI plays within the broader time-based media conservation ecosystem today, many decades after the organizations founding. In our chat we hear about Caroline’s vibrant professional journey, and the incredible array of positions she has held across many different contexts within the moving image preservation world – from handling nitrate film, preserving Catalonia’s legacy of silent film – to assessing software based works of art at the Museum of Modern Art and the MET. Our chat with Caroline further expands the global map we’ve been building on the show of time-based media conservation practice, as we hear all about her origins and early professional years in Puerto Rico. Tune in to hear Caroline’s story!At the time we’re releasing this episode Puerto Rico is reeling from the devastation of hurricane Fiona. Below is a list of local aid and relief organizations courtesy our guest – please consider supporting them if you are able:Taller Salud- Feminist grassroots organization that works with low-income and mostly Black women and communities in Loíza. Donation page: https://secure.actblue.com/donate/fionaresponseAgitArte | Papel Machete- AgitArte is an organization of working class artists and cultural organizers who work at the intersections of race, class, gender, sexuality and ideology. Donation page: https://secure.actblue.com/donate/fionaresponseMuseo de Arte Contemporáneo de Puerto Rico (MAC) - Community Contemporary Art Museum in Santurce, San Juan, PR. Artist Emergency Fund - PayPal.Me/museoMACPRPitirre Proyectos-  a Puerto Rican based organization, 501c3 non-profit launched to provide direct aid to the artist community in the island. Artist Relief fundraiser: https://www.pitirreproyectos.org/donateOther links from the conversation with Caroline>  M&M proyectos curator Michy Marxuach https://www.cifo.org/index.php/visit/leadership/item/596?tmpl=biographies&TB_iframe=true&height=500&width=900>  We didn’t ask permission, we just did it… https://camstl.org/exhibitions/we-didnt-ask-permission-we-just-did-it/> Recording of noise band Cornucopia, at Iámbica Festival https://archive.org/details/Live_SanJuan_01