#806: How Rich Barton Built Expedia and Zillow from $0 to $35B — Audacious Goals, Provocation Marketing, Scrabble for Naming, and Powerful Daily Rituals

Rich Barton is the co-founder and co-executive chairman of Zillow, a company transforming how people buy, sell, rent, and finance homes. Before Zillow, Rich founded Expedia within Microsoft in 1994 and successfully spun the company off as a public company in 1999. He served as president, CEO, and board director of Expedia and later co-founded and served as non-executive chairman of Glassdoor.Sponsors:Ramp easy-to-use corporate cards, bill payments, accounting, and more: https://ramp.com/tim (Get $250 when you join Ramp)Cresset prestigious family office for CEOs, founders, and entrepreneurs: https://cressetcapital.com/tim (book a call today)Shopify global commerce platform, providing tools to start, grow, market, and manage a retail business: https://shopify.com/tim (one-dollar-per-month trial period)Timestamps:[00:00:00] Start.[00:05:30] Eddy Cue magic.[00:06:14] Rich’s morning routine and workout philosophy.[00:13:38] How Brad Chase at Microsoft taught Rich to swing big.[00:15:46] The failed DOS for Dummies book bundle project.[00:18:52] Steering a company toward a culture of innovation.[00:20:26] Rich’s journey from management consulting to Microsoft.[00:24:34] How Expedia came to be.[00:32:32] Pitching and recruiting team talent.[00:37:18] Degree design at Stanford.[00:39:45] Realizing the value of real work as a youth.[00:41:44] A fascination with Italy.[00:43:01] Selling Expedia to Barry Diller/IAC.[00:43:51] Dara Khosrowshahi’s role in Expedia’s acquisition.[00:45:23] From a post-Expedia sale sabbatical in Italy to the birth of Zillow with Lloyd Frink.[00:55:41] “Big pond, good fishermen” as business criteria.[00:56:50] Early Zillow mistakes.[01:00:05] The Zestimate: Zillow’s killer feature.[01:01:29] Making lemonade from the lemons of Zillow’s launch day server crash.[01:03:49] Rich’s provocation marketing playbook.[01:05:30] Regulatory battles and resistance to industry disruption.[01:10:44] Founding Glassdoor and its “give to get” data collection model.[01:12:58] Avvo and rating attorneys — legal challenges as marketing.[01:16:11] Digital marketplaces and Google disintermediation concerns.[01:19:52] How Rich names companies to be memorable.[01:25:28] Why Rich recommends leaving fear out of the provocation marketing equation.[01:26:48] Working with Benchmark Capital.[01:30:37] What serving on a board looks like and Rich’s membership criteria: “Is it local? Is it fun? Is it lucrative?”[01:39:00] Rich’s motivation and regimen for staying healthy in his 50s.[01:47:13] Cultivating leadership through absence — the two-week disconnected trip.[01:49:34] Building a good company by keeping good company.[01:51:42] Developing the skill to fire people as a win/win proposition.[01:54:41] Rich’s family tattoo design and symbolism.[01:57:29] Advice for balancing family and professional life.[02:01:08] The benefits of distributed workforces post-pandemic.[02:03:23] Recommended reading.[02:12:17] Rich’s billboard.[02:14:25] The importance of sabbaticals and disconnecting from digital devices.[02:17:41] Taking up Procreate digital art during COVID.[02:19:05] Parting thoughts. *For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast.For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsorsSign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday.For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts.Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books.Follow Tim:Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferrissYouTube: youtube.com/timferrissFacebook: facebook.com/timferriss LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferrissPast guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, Margaret Atwood, Mark Zuckerberg, Peter Thiel, Dr. Gabor Maté, Anne Lamott, Sarah Silverman, Dr. Andrew Huberman, and many more.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Philip Goff is a professor of philosophy at Durham University. His main research focus is consciousness, but he is interested in many questions about the nature of reality. He is most known for defending panpsychism, the view that consciousness is a fundamental and ubiquitous feature of the physical world. He is the author of Galileo's Error: Foundations for a New Science of Consciousness and Why? The Purpose of the Universe.This episode is brought to you by:Our Place's Titanium Always Pan® Pro using nonstick technology that’s coating-free and made without PFAS, otherwise known as “Forever Chemicals”: https://fromourplace.com/tim (Get 10% off today!)AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement: https://DrinkAG1.com/Tim (1-year supply of Vitamin D (and 5 free AG1 travel packs) with your first subscription purchase.)Helix Sleep premium mattresses: https://HelixSleep.com/Tim (20% off on all mattress orders)Connect with Philip Goff: https://philipgoffphilosophy.com/https://x.com/Philip_Goff/https://bsky.app/profile/philipgoff.bsky.socialTimestamps:[00:00:00] Start.[00:06:24] What is panpsychism?[00:11:19] Common misunderstandings about panpsychism.[00:16:08] Roger Penrose and quantum consciousness.[00:17:26] Gödel’s incompleteness theorem.[00:19:22] The challenges of scientific consensus on consciousness.[00:21:35] Integrated Information Theory (IIT).[00:27:17] What early quantum pioneers like Max Planck and Niels Bohr thought about consciousness.[00:33:15] Defining consciousness and qualia.[00:35:41] Galileo’s Error: How science removed consciousness from study.[00:41:03] Materialist vs. panpsychist.[00:43:30] The neuroanatomical seat of consciousness debate.[00:45:41] Scientific challenges around the public observation of consciousness.[00:50:35] Exploring potential payoffs and ethical considerations of figuring out consciousness.[00:57:01] How virtual reality reminded Philip to appreciate ordinary reality.[01:00:31] Bertrand Russell and William James as philosophical heroes.[01:02:05] Science seems mum on the matter of matter.[01:06:53] William James and mystical experiences.[01:09:20] Philip’s journey as a “heretical Christian.”[01:19:23] Why Philip left Christianity at age 14.[01:20:20] Rediscovering mystical traditions within Christianity.[01:31:41] Karen Armstrong on the modern corruption of religious belief.[01:33:56] Is true belief a prerequisite for building a community through religion and enjoying its therapeutic benefits?[01:48:40] Psychedelics and numinous experiences.[01:51:36] Sufism and mystical poetry.[01:56:10] Renaming traditional religious terms for broader accessibility.[02:01:09] The potential resurgence of religion and new spiritual movements.[02:05:42] Philip’s billboard.[02:08:36] Parting thoughts.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Robert Rodriguez is a film director, screenwriter, producer, cinematographer, editor, and composer. Rodriguez has written, produced, directed, and edited a series of successful films including El Mariachi, Desperado, From Dusk Till Dawn, the Spy Kids franchise, Once Upon a Time in Mexico, Frank Miller’s Sin City, and many more. Robert recently launched Brass Knuckle Films, an investable action film slate.This episode is brought to you by:Cresset prestigious family office for CEOs, founders, and entrepreneurs: https://cressetcapital.com/tim (book a call today)AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement: https://DrinkAG1.com/Tim (1-year supply of Vitamin D (and 5 free AG1 travel packs) with your first subscription purchase.)Wealthfront high-yield cash account: https://Wealthfront.com/Tim (Start earning 4.00% Annual Percentage Yield (APY) on your short-term cash until you’re ready to invest. And when new clients open an account today, you can get an extra fifty-dollar bonus with a deposit of five hundred dollars or more.) Terms & Conditions apply. APY as of 12/27/24 and is subject to change. Tim Ferriss receives cash compensation from Wealthfront Brokerage, LLC for advertising and holds a non-controlling equity interest in the corporate parent of Wealthfront Brokerage. See full disclosures here.*Timestamps:[00:00:00] Start.[00:08:19] Recounting what’s happened in the 10 years since Robert’s last appearance on the show.[00:11:23] The freedom of limitations.[00:14:08] Fruit-bearing “failures.”[00:16:09] How Robert stumbled onto his own brand of counterintuitive parenting.[00:18:42] How fan investing for Brass Knuckle Films works.[00:23:59] How to effectively pitch a movie idea.[00:26:55] The time to start your art is now. Aim high.[00:33:00] The value of learning by doing.[00:43:31] The power of labels to elevate or diminish our ambitions.[00:47:51] Why lack of access is a myth.[00:49:08] No human doubts — when not knowing is half the battle.[00:54:25] Fear forward past the confines of the comfort zone.[00:59:02] Interactions with the enigmatic Rick Rubin.[01:01:53] Harnessing the creative spirit: action first, inspiration second.[01:07:00] Living is reliving: why Robert wants you to start journaling.[01:15:38] “Don’t just parent. Partner.”[01:22:47] In defense of what some call nepotism.[01:28:27] Why the double R naming scheme in the Rodriguez household?[01:30:04] Tribe talk.[01:33:38] Robert’s favorite exercise-related life hack: the rock walk.[01:36:15] Parting thoughts.*For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast.For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsorsSign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday.For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts.Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books.Follow Tim:Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferrissYouTube: youtube.com/timferrissFacebook: facebook.com/timferriss LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferrissSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Craig Mod Returns! Craig is a writer, photographer, and walker living in Tokyo and Kamakura, Japan. He is the author of Things Become Other Things and Kissa by Kissa. He also writes the newsletters Roden and Ridgeline and has contributed to The New York Times, The Atlantic, Wired, and more.Sponsors:Shopify global commerce platform, providing tools to start, grow, market, and manage a retail business: https://shopify.com/tim (one-dollar-per-month trial period)Momentous high-quality supplements: https://livemomentous.com/tim (code TIM for 20% off)Helix Sleep premium mattresses: https://HelixSleep.com/Tim (Between 20% and 27% off all mattress orders and two free pillows)Timestamps:[00:00:00] Start.[00:07:25] More than a decade of Perfect Days in a six-tatami mat room.[00:10:44] The first steps of Craig’s huge walks: exploring Tokyo’s nightlife.[00:17:33] Discovering pilgrimage trails with John McBride.[00:22:49] What’s so appealing about pilgrimage trails?[00:31:25] Learning politeness and language in Japan.[00:40:09] An invitation from Kevin Kelly.[00:41:23] The birth of a photo book.[00:42:50] The big solo walks begin.[00:43:53] Launching a membership program.[00:44:58] The Nakasendō experience.[00:50:01] Craig’s rules for walking.[00:51:04] The Vipassana influence.[01:00:43] Logistics of walking in Japan.[01:09:03] Depopulation and pizza toast.[01:13:42] How Kissa by Kissa came to be (and its unexpected success).[01:16:34] Kicking off Craigstarter.[01:17:47] The pièce de résistance membership strategy.[01:18:41] Finding product-market fit.[01:19:12] The importance of sustainable scale.[01:19:50] Membership community rules.[01:27:15] Navigating the publishing world.[01:38:37] Promoting midsize cities in Japan as a wild and strange celebrity.[01:52:50] The economic and cultural effects of this promotion.[01:54:46] Hidden gems and walks in Japan.[01:56:56] Walking beyond Japan.[01:59:47] Craig was a Mod before you was a mod.[02:00:47] How Craig reconnected with his birth family.[02:19:32] Reflections and future plans.[02:23:00] Parting thoughts.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Craig Mod is a writer, photographer, and walker living in Tokyo and Kamakura, Japan. He is the author of Things Become Other Things and Kissa by Kissa. He also writes the newsletters Roden and Ridgeline and has contributed to The New York Times, The Atlantic, Wired, and more.Sponsors:David Protein Bars 28g of protein, 150 calories, and 0g of sugar: https://davidprotein.com/tim (Buy 4 cartons, get the 5th free.)AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement: https://DrinkAG1.com/Tim (1-year supply of Vitamin D (and 5 free AG1 travel packs) with your first subscription purchase.)Eight Sleep’s Pod 4 Ultra sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating: https://eightsleep.com/tim (save $350 on the Pod 4 Ultra)Timestamps:[00:00:00] Start.[00:06:49] What would make this a worthwhile conversation?[00:09:14] How Craig and I first met.[00:11:06] Growing up in a post-industrial Connecticut town.[00:13:10] The kindness of a tech-savvy stranger.[00:14:02] IRC, ANSI art scene, and making connections in the Internet’s early days.[00:15:48] From adoption to exploring hometown escape options.[00:18:28] Driving cross-country to a Silicon Valley internship.[00:20:05] Pursuing the desire to live abroad.[00:22:14] Attending Waseda University in Japan at age 19.[00:23:34] Seduced by the Ivy League: A momentary return to the States for a UPenn education.[00:24:52] Craig’s advice for adults who want to pick up the Japanese language.[00:29:04] Bizarre homestay experiences.[00:41:04] How Craig wound up back in Japan to work in publishing.[00:42:55] Developing design sensibilities at UPenn with Sharka Hyland and Joshua Mosley.[00:47:30] Craig’s color blindness and its influence on his design aesthetic.[00:49:54] Without a time machine, Craig lives vicariously through his daughter’s opportunities.[00:51:36] Struggling with spirits of sauce and the supernatural .[00:56:02] A Tibetan dream reader and lost love.[00:59:53] Craig’s journey to self-worth: Running, charging more for work, and building confidence.[01:01:51] The transformative experience of climbing to Annapurna Base Camp in Nepal.[01:04:40] Writing a camera review that went viral and paid rent for two years.[01:10:33] The article that changed Craig’s life.[01:16:39] The enduring power of physical books in the digital age.[01:21:06] How being adopted prepared Craig for life as an outsider no matter where he hangs his hat.[01:25:25] Craig’s time at Flipboard.[01:29:24] Writing in hotel rooms on weekends.[01:30:14] Meeting Kevin Kelly and landing a MacDowell writing residency.[01:32:51] Bridges burned and discoveries made at MacDowell.[01:40:16] Justifying a round two.[01:41:17] Craig’s advice for aspiring creatives.[01:45:12] Books Craig has reread multiple times.[01:49:43] The story behind Craig’s new book, Things Become Other Things.[02:01:47] Craig’s Special Projects membership program.[02:04:08] In praise of unexpected corners.[02:06:25] Lessons learned from the Sally Mann documentary.[02:07:34] Parting thoughts and a preview of round two (coming later this week).See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a special inbetweenisode, which serves as a recap of the episodes from last month. It features a short clip from each conversation in one place so you can easily jump around to get a feel for the episode and guest.Based on your feedback, this format has been tweaked and improved since the first recap episode. For instance, listeners suggested that the bios for each guest can slow the momentum, so we moved all the bios to the end. See it as a teaser. Something to whet your appetite. If you like what you hear, you can of course find the full episodes at tim.blog/podcast. Please enjoy! This episode is brought to you by 5-Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter.Timestamps:Brandon Sanderson: 03:24Seth Godin: 12:08L.A. Paul: 21:08Dr. Keith Baar: 31:53Full episode titles:#794: Brandon Sanderson on Building a Fiction Empire, Creating $40M+ Kickstarter Campaigns, Unbreakable Habits, The Art of World-Building, and The Science of Magic Systems #792: Seth Godin on Playing the Right Game and Strategy as a Superpower#796: L.A. Paul — On Becoming a Vampire, Whether or Not to Have Kids, Getting Incredible Mentorship for $250, Transformative Experiences, and More#797: Dr. Keith Baar, UC Davis — Simple Exercises That Can Repair Tendons (Tennis Elbow, etc.), Collagen Fact vs. Fiction, Isometrics vs. Eccentrics, JAK Inhibitors, Growth Hormone vs. IGF-1, The Anti-RICE Protocol, and How to Use Load as an Anti-InflammatorySee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Ev Williams is the co-founder of Mozi, a new social network that helps you connect in person with the people you care about. Over the past 25 years, Ev has co-founded several companies that have helped shape the modern internet—including Blogger, Medium, and Twitter. This episode was recorded live at Diggnation, where digg.com was relaunched. Go to digg.com and sign up to get early access when invites go out.Sponsors:David Protein Bars 28g of protein, 150 calories, and 0g of sugar: https://davidprotein.com/tim (Buy 4 cartons, get the 5th free.)Sundays for Dogs ultra-high-quality dog food: https://sundaysfordogs.com/tim (save 50% on your first order)Wealthfront high-yield cash account: https://Wealthfront.com/Tim (Start earning 4.00% Annual Percentage Yield (APY) on your short-term cash until you’re ready to invest. And when new clients open an account today, you can get an extra fifty-dollar bonus with a deposit of five hundred dollars or more.) Terms & Conditions apply. APY as of 12/27/24 and is subject to change. Tim Ferriss receives cash compensation from Wealthfront Brokerage, LLC for advertising and holds a non-controlling equity interest in the corporate parent of Wealthfront Brokerage. See full disclosures here.Timestamps:[00:00:00] Start[00:05:35] Kevin Rose starts the party like it's 2004.[00:07:27] Ev's first internet product.[00:08:54] How technology became social for Ev.[00:10:52] The simple idea behind Mozi.[00:12:05] Strategic quitting vs. sunk-cost perseverance.[00:18:36] How Odeo begat Twitter.[00:22:01] Twitter's $11,000 SXSW 2007 inflection point.[00:23:45] Ev's hopes for Mozi's evolution.[00:25:02] Favorite books and information inputs.[00:30:45] Raising a generation to co-exist with AI.[00:33:12] Ev's billboard.[00:35:56] How Ev learned to manage his feelings.[00:37:16] Facing strangers as an introvert with the Hoffman Process.[00:39:57] Recently adopted habits that have galvanized positive change.[00:42:44] The silver lining of being fired from Twitter.[00:45:18] Contemplating how the universe works with The One by Heinrich Päs.[00:47:04] How Ev stocks his reading list arsenal.[00:50:26] Big thoughts on a Medium regret.[00:52:47] Resisting the urge to bloat Mozi with superfluous features.[00:55:40] How Mozi balances privacy with utility.[00:57:40] Parting thoughts.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Richard Taylor is the co-founder and creative lead at Wētā Workshop, which he runs with his wife and co-founder Tania Rodger. Wētā Workshop is a concept design studio and manufacturing facility that services the world’s creative and entertainment industries. Their practical and special effects have helped define the visual identities of some of the most recognizable franchises in film and television, including The Lord of the Rings; Planet of the Apes; Superman; Mad Max; Thor; M3gan; and Love, Death, and Robots.Greg Broadmore is an artist and writer who has been part of the team at Wētā Workshop for more than 20 years. His design and special-effects credits include District 9, King Kong, Godzilla, The Adventures of Tintin, and Avatar, and he is the creator of the satirical, retro-sci-fi world of Dr. Grordbort’s. He is currently working on the graphic novel series One Path, set in a brutal prehistoric world where dinosaurs and cavewomen are locked in a grim battle for supremacy.Sponsors:AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement: https://DrinkAG1.com/Tim (1-year supply of Vitamin D (and 5 free AG1 travel packs) with your first subscription purchase.)Seed's DS-01® Daily Synbiotic broad spectrum 24-strain probiotic + prebiotic: https://Seed.com/Tim (Use code 25TIM for 25% off your first month's supply)Our Place's Titanium Always Pan® Pro using nonstick technology that’s coating-free and made without PFAS, otherwise known as “Forever Chemicals”: https://fromourplace.com/tim (Get 10% off today!)TIMESTAMPS:[00:00:00] Start [00:08:51] Albertosaurus vs. bear.[00:10:10] The Richard Taylor office tour.[00:12:27] How Richard was inspired to begin sculpting.[00:15:42] Being influenced by — and meeting — stop-motion legend Ray Harryhausen.[00:18:08] Connecting with Dick Smith, the ‘grandfather’ of makeup effects.[00:19:17] Sculpting in margarine and breaking into the industry.[00:23:57] Tinfoil sculpting and teaching creativity to kids.[00:28:00] Wētā’s evolution from a small team to a 400-person creative hub.[00:35:57] 99 Dodgy Slips and 99 Deadly Sleds.[00:41:43] Greg’s artistic education and unique process.[00:46:11] The art must flow! But how does Greg make it happen?[00:47:54] The Auckland mural: when flow goes too far and Lemmy has to be replaced.[00:48:42] How Greg boarded the Wētā Workshop train after years on the dole.[00:51:59] The David Deutsch influence: curiosity, fun, and learning.[00:53:05] Philosophizing around art and creative problem-solving.[00:54:45] How Wētā’s Gallipoli exhibition makes WWI relevant to modern museumgoers.[00:59:04] The challenges of clothing giants and hitting deadlines.[01:03:33] How Wētā attacked the massive scale of the Lord of the Rings project with a can-do attitude.[01:11:23] Richard’s four tenets (plus one bonus tenet).[01:13:39] The unique advantages of operating in New Zealand.[01:16:42] The unwavering self-belief of Peter Jackson’s leadership style.[01:20:10] Richard’s advice for anyone seeking to cultivate their own creativity.[01:23:03] Artistic immortality: leaving a creative legacy.[01:24:13] Greg explains the retro sci-fi angle behind his Dr. Grordbort’s and ray gun projects.[01:28:55] The metaphysics of creative direction.[01:36:09] How Greg’s new book, One Path, came about.[01:40:02] Tools Greg used for conceptualizing One Path.[01:41:55] Where the curious can see more of Greg’s work.[01:43:18] How many destinations does Greg imagine One Path will reach?[01:45:02] Why working on District 9 was often frustrating, but ultimately rewarding.[01:50:39] How can an artist maintain a healthy detachment from their own work?[01:57:35] Greg’s inspirations.[02:06:20] What’s Bill Watterson (Calvin and Hobbes) up to these days?[02:08:53] What is art really about for Greg?[02:10:10] How Aaron Stupple changed Greg’s life.[02:13:13] Bestiaries, folios, and fondly remembered library books.[02:15:39] Parting thoughts.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

For this episode, I’m doing something a bit different. I’m featuring five chapters from the audiobook Fierce Intimacy by Terry Real. What you will hear in this episode will help you identify both your and your partner’s losing strategies in relationships, and help you move from disharmony to repair. Terry is the creator of Relational Life Therapy, or RLT, which underpins all his books, courses, and teachings and equips people with the powerful relational skills they need to make love work. He is also the author of five books, including the New York Times bestseller Us: Getting Past You and Me to Build a More Loving Relationship. And if you’d like an extra dose of calm, I recommend checking out Henry Shukman, a past podcast guest and one of only a few dozen masters in the world authorized to teach Sanbo Zen. Henry’s app, The Way, has changed my life. I’ve been using it daily, often twice a day, and it’s lowered my anxiety more than I thought possible. For 30 free sessions, just visit thewayapp.com/tim. No credit card required.Excerpted from Fierce Intimacy: Standing Up to One Another with LOVE by Terry Real (Sounds True, 2018.). Used with permission.[00:00:00] Who is Terry Real? [00:03:11] Harmony, disharmony, and repair: The rhythm of all intimate human relationships.[00:06:27] Harmony: Love without knowledge.[00:07:01] Disharmony: Knowledge without love.[00:10:01] Repair: Knowing love.[00:10:35] Stay or go? A relational reckoning.[00:12:04] Five losing strategies for getting from disharmony to repair.[00:13:21] Being right: Objective reality has no place in personal relationships.[00:16:35] Trying to control your partner: No one likes being controlled.[00:21:35] Unbridled self-expression: The barf bag approach to intimacy.[00:27:33] Retaliation: Offending from the victim position.[00:32:13] Withdrawal: Provacative distance-taking.[00:35:58] Shaking hands with your adaptive child — your losing strategy profile (LSP).[00:38:08] Lessons learned by comparing your partner’s LSP with your own.*For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast.For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsorsSign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday.For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts.Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books.Follow Tim:Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferrissYouTube: youtube.com/timferrissFacebook: facebook.com/timferriss LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferrissPast guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, Margaret Atwood, Mark Zuckerberg, Peter Thiel, Dr. Gabor Maté, Anne Lamott, Sarah Silverman, Dr. Andrew Huberman, and many more.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dr. Keith Baar is a Professor at the University of California, Davis in the Department of Physiology and Membrane Biology. During his Ph.D. studies, his research revealed that mechanical strain on muscle fibers activates the mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR) signaling pathway, a crucial regulator of muscular hypertrophy. Subsequently, he studied the molecular dynamics of skeletal muscle adaptation to endurance training under the guidance of Dr. John Holloszy, a legend in the field of exercise physiology, considered the father of modern exercise biochemistry. Building on all of this experience, he conducted research into tendon health and the potential for engineering ligaments, which could have implications for treatment and recovery from injuries.Sponsors:Cresset prestigious family office for CEOs, founders, and entrepreneurs: https://cressetcapital.com/tim (book a call today)AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement: https://DrinkAG1.com/Tim (1-year supply of Vitamin D (and 5 free AG1 travel packs) with your first subscription purchase.)Shopify global commerce platform, providing tools to start, grow, market, and manage a retail business: https://shopify.com/tim (one-dollar-per-month trial period)*Links to everything discussed: https://tim.blog/2025/02/26/dr-keith-baar/Timestamps:[00:00:00] Start [00:07:12] How I discovered Keith’s work through a tweet about tennis elbow and rock climbing.[00:07:54] Emil Abrahamsson’s hangboard training protocol.[00:09:20] The fundamental principles of strength training and connective tissue adaptation.[00:10:36] mTOR complex 1 and its role in muscle growth.[00:12:06] Engineered ligaments and the discovery of minimal effective doses for tendon adaptation.[00:13:50] The refractory period between optimal tendon loading sessions.[00:16:42] Rapamycin’s effects on muscle hypertrophy.[00:18:49] Protocols for tennis elbow rehabilitation.[00:20:28] Why isometrics work better than eccentrics for tendon healing.[00:22:14] Stress shielding and how load distribution affects tendon healing.[00:29:07] The misconception about eccentric loading for tendon injuries and why velocity matters.[00:29:58] Ideal duration for isometric holds (10-30 seconds) based on injury status.[00:33:50] My elbow issues and current rehab approach.[00:36:02] Overcoming vs. yielding isometrics and optimal loading strategies.[00:47:11] Dr. Barr’s movement prescription for my tennis elbow.[00:52:18] Loading timing post-surgery and RICE protocol criticism.[00:56:58] Achilles tendon rehabilitation after surgery.[01:00:18] Critique of orthopedic suturing techniques and recommendation for resorbable sutures.[01:04:02] Multiple position isometrics for tennis elbow rehabilitation.[01:07:26] Collagen synthesis, supplementation, and vitamin C timing.[01:12:59] Critique of BPC-157 and other injectable peptides for tendon healing.[01:18:19] Evaluation of orthobiologics’ (PRP, prolotherapy, stem cells) effectiveness.[01:21:37] JAK-STAT inhibitor drugs and their effects on tendon growth.[01:25:35] Drugs that increase risk of tendon ruptures (fluoroquinolones, AT-1 receptor drugs).[01:29:33] How estrogen affects tendon stiffness and injury risk in women.[01:32:48] Testosterone’s opposite effects on tendon compared to estrogen.[01:35:31] Protein intake recommendations and timing.[01:40:11] Ketogenic diet effects on mitochondrial biogenesis and longevity.[01:41:57] Comparison of ketogenic diet, low protein diet, and rapamycin for longevity.[01:47:19] Inflammation’s role in adaptation and when to reduce it.[01:51:17] Timing of ice baths relative to training for optimal recovery.[01:52:33] Parting thoughts.*For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast.For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsorsSign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday.For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts.Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books.Follow Tim:Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferrissYouTube: youtube.com/timferrissFacebook: facebook.com/timferriss LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferrissPast guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, Margaret Atwood, Mark Zuckerberg, Peter Thiel, Dr. Gabor Maté, Anne Lamott, Sarah Silverman, Dr. Andrew Huberman, and many more.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.