35. Updating Neoplatonic Spirituality (w/ John Vervaeke)

Here I lay out my conception of what a metamodern version of Christianity looks like. Drawing on the insights of all the previous cultural paradigms, the revelation of God's nature and the deepening quality of the relationship between God and man can be understood as progressing through a series of covenants/dispensations that map to a learning process unfolding through time. Such a perspective helps us non-arbitrarily coordinate tribal, imperial, traditional, modern, and postmodern conceptions of God that have manifested across sacred history. All of these are necessary and contribute to a coherent story of deepening understanding about and relationship with the ever-transcendent Divine. 0:00 Introduction 0:56 "Metamodern" 5:50 "Christianity" 9:00 Sacred History as Learning and Expansion 11:43 Dynamics of Learning: Assimilation and Accomodation 16:47 Learning as Complexification of Thought 18:04 The Revelation of God as a Learning Process 24:34 1. The Sacred Relationship in the Tribal Epoch 26:12 2. Relationship with God in the Monarchy 29:02 3. Deepening Divine Relationship in the Prophets and Gospels 31:10 Recap: The Arc of Learning God Better 33:41 4. Revelation in the Modern Era 40:05 5. The Way of Jesus in Postmodernity 42:09 6. Metamodern Christianity: Embracing All Stages of Revelation 53:37 Conclusion

In this episode, I assume the modern historical-critical perspective with pastor and 'This Little Corner of the Internet' thinker Paul VanderKlay to explore the tension points it has with the traditional-devotional lens--and to consider if and how these impasses might be transcended. Does history matter to faith and to the faithful? If so, how, when, and why? Can we avoid equivocating discussions around the "reality" of Christianity? How crucial is the nonrational? Overall, we rehearse what challenges the traditional approach to Christianity faces as it develops into modern expressions and interpretations on the way towards a metamodern instantiation. 0:00 Introduction 0:55 The "God Pivot" and Metamodernism: The Missing Modern 7:39 How Does Faith Relate to Modern & Postmodern Critical Approaches? 24:30 The Reality of Religion in Different Psycho-Social Contexts 36:18 Reality vs. History: Language as Metaphor or Fact 52:38 Worldview, Rationality, and Projection 1:04:28 "Spirit": False Substance Reification vs. Real Transjective Relationality 1:07:22 Avoiding Equivocation and Taking Modern Science Seriously 1:20:59 Pragmatic and Developmental Hermeneutics 1:44:16 Nonrationality and the Meaning Crisis 1:59:15 Different Metamodern Spiritual Arcs: The Theological is Personal 2:16:00 Conclusion

In this episode, I offer my own take on the "God Pivot" towards Christianity in the Intellectual Dark Web and adjacent communities (e.g., the liminal web, "This Corner of the Internet," and beyond). Reflecting on my recent interview with Jordan Hall, I see something glaringly absent from the broader conversation: the modern historical-critical perspective. Therefore, I ask: 1) How does the Traditional-Devotional perspective differ from the Modern Historical-Critical one with regard to the Old and New Testaments? 2) What might a metamodern Christianity look like that could successfully and syngergistically toggle between these different lenses to yield something progressive and robust? 0:00 Introduction 4:40 Hermeneutic Lenses: The Traditional-Devotional and Modern Historical-Critical Perspectives 7:46 Old Testament: Traditional-Devotional 13:13 Old Testament: Modern Historical-Critical 32:01 New Testament: Traditional-Devotional 37:53 New Testament: Modern Historical-Critical 47:58 Implications and Synthesis

Following a recent conversion to Christianity, Jordan Hall offers his perspective on the Christian worldview, its orienting beliefs and how they inform (and affirm) ways of being in the world. Brendan brings his own background of being raised in and and leaving the church to the conversation, trying to gain deeper understanding about how one can affirm Christian doctrine in the context of a metamodern world. 0:00 Introduction 2:47 Faith and Understanding: Christian Propositional vs. Participatory Knowing 15:36 Beyond a "Religion vs. Reason" Debate 20:26 Jordan's Reasons to Believe: Scripture, History, 1st Person Experience* 30:36 Jordan Not Impressed by Naturalistic Challenge to the Resurrection 35:56 Notions of Gospel and Sin: Faith Changing Behavior --- For Good or Ill 41:53 Jordan's Rejection of Naturalism and His Faith in Christian Historicity and Ontology 52:21 (Brendan Has a Lot of Responses He Won't Get Into in This Context) 53:07 Self-Confirming Faith: Reciprocal Opening in Other Faiths? 1:02:32 Excursus: Historicity and Hermeneutics of the Doctrine of the Trinity 1:08:52 Self-Confirming Faith: Pathologies in Self-Justifying Beliefs 1:16:20 Self-Confirming Faith: Participatory Knowing and Confirmation Bias 1:27:53 Conclusion

Patrick Barry joins me to continue our discussion about the emerging contours of a metamodern wisdom school and the secular spirituality beginning to fill in the "missing tradition" between and beyond science and religion. 0:00 Introduction 0:34 Towards a Secular Spirituality 5:01 Awe and Mystery in Both Religion and Science 10:25 "Faith" in What Is 17:18 Being Naturally At Home in the Universe 27:08 Past Church and Academia: Forging a New Kind of Wisdom Institution 46:21 A New Story: A Self-Appreciating Cosmos 58:40 Meaning as Awe as Learning 1:04:18 Significance vs. Scale 1:09:58 Speculating on God and Telos: Finding Ourselves in the Depths of Being 1:24:23 Conclusion

Stephen Hicks, a professor of philosophy and author of Explaining Postmodernism, joins me to discuss the transformation of worldviews from the premodern to the modern and from the modern to the postmodern. After his incisive overview of these dramatic shifts, we discuss what it might look like to integrate the genuinely positive contributions of postmodern thought, and consider where we are headed in a post-postmodern world. 0:00 Introduction 1:58 How to Trace Philosophical History 4:15 From Premodern to Modern 15:56 From Modern to Postmodern 34:07 How Do We Move Beyond the Modern and Postmodern while Integrating Their Strengths? 43:28 Relativizing the Critique 51:14 Living After Postmodernism

Patrick Barry, a former science journalist and current coder for the popular Waking Up meditation app, joins me to talk about building wisdom communities and Stoas for secular spirituality. As those who claim no affiliation with organized religion (the "nones") are now the most populous religious identity in America, what institutions of meaning, virtue, and self-reflection might we see appear that can properly meet the needs of metamodern seekers? 0:00 Introduction 4:13 Stoicism, Empiricism, and Secular Spirituality: Towards a Sacred Naturalism 12:55 Science and the Sublime: Finding Significance in the Known 22:52 The Missing Tradition 27:02 Wisdom Gyms for Lived Philosophy: Adding 1st- and 2nd-Person Truths to 3rd-Person Fact 51:30 Know Thyself: A Second Curriculum 57:44 "Broicism"?: Shadow and the Developmental Conveyor Belt 1:03:27 Integrating Tradition and Myth 1:12:02 Stoicism in Metamodernity 1:15:15 Conclusion

I'm joined by Integral thinker, theorist, teacher, writer, and community elder Bruce Alderman to talk about the ongoing love/hate relationship between metamodernism and Integral Theory, especially as the debate has been stirred up anew by the publication of my new book Metamodernism: Or, The Cultural Logic of Cultural Logics. Here we tackle some of the ongoing controversies that continue to swirl in some parts of the metamodern discourse, especially around the degree to which Ken Wilber and his formulation of the post-postmodern does/does not, should/should not inform our understanding of theories of the metamodern. Given the relationship that does exist, how do we best acknowledge and utilize it in pragmatic and integrous ways? How do we properly parse and distinguish these post-postmodern paradigms? What are the genuine fault lines and distinguishing characteristics of each framework, and what's just meme fluff? 0:00 Introduction (1:16, 3:30 Bruce card) 1:55 Bruce's Integral Context/Background 5:06 Brendan's Metamodern Context/Background 8:07 Did Hanzi Just Rip Off Wilber? 13:03 Did Hanzi Just Steal the Term "Metamodern" for an Integral Framework? 25:26 Has the Ship Sailed? Could Metamodernism Be the Future of Integral? 42:48 Did Brendan Just Excise/Ignore Wilber? 51:33 Does Metamodernism Offer a Workable Social Science Where Integral Doesn't? 1:01:03 The "Woo" Factor 1:14:15 Conclusion

Embodiment practitioner and teacher Ēlen Awalom joins me to talk about the promise and necessity of bringing more embodied wisdom into our world and, especially, our online spaces. We consider some approaches one can use in the context of triggering or polarizing engagements in digital forums in an attempt to return the focus back to the body and lived emotional experience in very disembodied contexts. Finally, we talk in broad terms about the importance of increasing our somatic intelligence in all areas of life, whether that's in response to the meta-crisis or our own interpersonal relationships. 0:00 Introduction 2:00 Bringing More Embodiment to Metamodern Discourse 9:13 Responding with Somatic Intelligence: Step 1. Center Yourself and Feel the Emotion 16:47 Step 2. Respond with Open Questions 20:00 Step 3. Use "I Statements" 23:15 Step 4. Know When to Step Back 31:20 The Challenge of Bypassing 36:19 Intentions for Embodied Leadership 50:19 Conclusion

Whitehead scholar and process thinker Matt Segall joins me to deepen our conversation about responses to the meaning crisis as it relates to reconnecting cosmos, consciousness, and value. In this discussion, we dive into the topic of "prehension," an idea from Whitehead that posits an experiential component to all phenomena in the universe. 0:00 Introduction 5:08 Prehension: Not Interior, but the Interior/Exterior Bridge 12:06 Prehension and Panpsychism 16:27 Identifying Basal Experience: Subjectivity and Time 25:52 Experience and Complexity 33:40 Attempting to Describe Fundamental Experience 47:06 Is Time Subjective? 54:36 Metaphysics and Novelty: Evolving Laws? 1:00:16 The Spectrum of Consciousness 1:04:22 Whitehead vs. Anthroposophy? 1:10:28 Philosophy's Role in a Scientific Age 1:21:43 Next Steps