44: Roxanne Pepin: Startups and the ability to learn RevOps

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Amrita Mathur, VP of Marketing at ClickUp.Summary: Building a brand from zero is all about diving deep into what makes your audience tick and tailoring your messages to hit just right. Amrita digs into this, stressing the gold in blending hard data with your gut in order to spot what truly connects. It’s not about the immediate wins; it’s hunting for those less obvious cues that hint you’re on to something. When it comes to team-building, she’s clear: bring on board folks who are curious, the ones who ask all of the questions and are unafraid of constructive criticism. For Amrita, the secret sauce to thriving in marketing, beyond all the strategy and insights, boils down to enjoying the ride and the people you’re with, transforming work from a mere grind to an adventure worth every second.About AmritaAmrita kicked off her career at a startup in Toronto that was later acquired by OpenText, there she wore many different marketing hats, and later progressed to Redknee as Product Marketing ManagerShe briefly shifted to customer success at Jonas Software, concentrating on customer growth and retention and later returned to product marketing at Toronto Region Board of TradeShe then became Director of Marketing at PriceMetrix/McKinsey, where she led marketing planning and team hiringShe also led Demand Marketing at Vision Critical where she focused on go-to-market strategies, demand generation, and martechAmrita then moved over to Top Hat as Vice President overseeing Demand Generation, Marketing Operations & GrowthShen then joined a startup called Konsus founded by two Norwegian entrepreneurs who secured seed funding from Sam Altman and the Slack Fund. There she led the rebrand of the company to Superside and built a team that helped the startup grow from 0 to $4M in year 1 and reach $60M by year 4Finally, Amrita has recently joined San Diego-based ClickUp, the popular productivity platform valued at over $4B, known best for their SuperBowl ad or their music albumThe Myth of the Ivory Tower in Tech LeadershipAmrita’s journey at ClickUp shatters the common myth of the ‘ivory tower’ often associated with leadership roles in substantial tech enterprises. Despite the company’s impressive valuation and extensive team, she emphasizes a hands-on approach that defies traditional expectations. At ClickUp, there’s no detachment between the upper management and the operational workforce; instead, the organization champions a flat hierarchy. This structure not only promotes visibility across all levels but also encourages direct involvement in operational tasks, regardless of one’s title.The ethos at ClickUp, as Amrita describes, mirrors what’s often referred to as the ‘Stripe model’—a reference to Stripe’s renowned flat organizational structure. This approach ensures that despite rapid growth, the company maintains an environment where every individual, from interns to VPs, is expected to dive deep into the minutiae of their work. It’s a testament to the belief that understanding and engaging with the details are paramount to effectiveness. ClickUp’s CEO reinforces this by advocating for a culture where being ‘in the details’ is not just encouraged but required.This philosophy stands in stark contrast to what Amrita experienced towards the end of her tenure at Superside, where she could afford to step back, confident in her team’s ability to manage without her direct oversight. At ClickUp, the scenario is vastly different. The expectation to remain operationally involved means leadership roles are as much about rolling up your sleeves and getting your hands dirty as they are about strategic oversight.The ClickUp model demonstrates a pivotal shift in how companies view leadership and organizational structure. It challenges the notion that senior positions are synonymous with distance from the day-to-day operations, highlighting the importance of a collaborative and transparent work environment. This approach not only ensures that leaders remain grounded and connected to their team’s work but also fosters a culture of accountability and shared responsibility.Key takeaway: At ClickUp, success is found not in the isolation of leadership roles but in their integration within the operational fabric of the company. This model serves as a compelling blueprint for marketers: to stay relevant and effective, immerse yourself in the granular aspects of your work, foster transparency, and maintain a willingness to engage across all levels of the organization.Choosing Between Testing and Informed Decision-MakingAmrita sheds light on a prevalent misconception in the marketing world: the notion that every decision should be subjected to testing. This idea, while rooted in the desire to make data-driven decisions, often becomes a stumbling block, delaying action and fostering indecision. With ClickUp’s significant web traffic and signup volumes, one might assume an endless capacity for testing. However, Amrita points out that this isn’t always the most effective approach. Traffic isn’t uniformly distributed across all initiatives, necessitating a more discerning strategy for deciding what to test and what decisions can be made based on informed hypotheses.For instance, the launch of ClickUp’s AI product, Click AppBrain, presented a scenario with zero initial traffic, making traditional A/B testing impractical at the outset. Instead, ClickUp opted for a bold approach, deviating from conventional landing page norms to create something distinctive and engaging. This strategy, as Amrita describes, is about ‘zagging’ when others ‘zig’, striving for uniqueness in a crowded marketplace. The success of their unconventional approach is evident in the substantial interest generated for their launch event, demonstrating that not all marketing initiatives need to be prefaced by rigorous testing.Amrita’s philosophy extends to broader marketing decisions, where not everything falls neatly into the ‘testing’ bucket. Certain endeavors, like sponsoring a podcast, defy straightforward measurement. The decision to proceed often hinges on understanding the audience and trusting the medium’s reach rather than on direct testing outcomes. This highlights the importance of leveraging different marketing disciplines to create compelling campaigns that might not initially lend themselves to A/B testing but are nevertheless rooted in strategic thinking.The approach to testing at ClickUp underlines a crucial balance between data-driven decision-making and intuitive marketing strategies. While A/B testing remains a valuable tool for optimizing conversions and understanding user behavior, Amrita’s insights remind us that marketing’s artistry lies in knowing when to rely on data and when to trust in creativity and market understanding.Key takeaway: Marketers should focus on cultivating an ability to discern which initiatives require validation through testing and which can advance based on informed hypotheses and innovative thinking. This approach not only streamlines decision-making but also encourages creativity and differentiation in a competitive landscape.Optimizing for Velocity of Learning in Early-Stage MarketingIn the formative stages of Superside, Amrita encountered the challenge many startups face: limited traffic and the pressure to demonstrate growth through experimentation. Instead of focusing solely on the quantity of tests, the emphasis was placed on the ‘velocity of learning,’ a concept introduced by her CEO. This shift in perspective, from quantitative to qualitative insights, paved the way for a more flexible and insightful approach to growth.

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Mauro Figueiredo, a global Digital Transformation and MarTech leader (and Innovator). Summary: Mauro walked us through his blueprint for building multifaceted teams equipped with technical, emotional, and strategic competencies. We emphasized the significance of identifying martech talent through self-awareness and curiosity, and how these traits play a crucial role in navigating the integration of martech with analytics and AI. We also focused on leveraging AI in marketing and the dangerous messaging of Co-Pilot’s Superbowl ad. By fostering a culture of continuous learning and cross-functional collaboration, marketers can unlock new opportunities in AI and ensure their strategies align with business goals for impactful outcomes.About MauroMauro spent the first 6 years of his career focusing on CRM and marketing automation for various gambling and casino companies across the UK and MaltaHe worked as a Senior CRM Manager at Sony Computer Entertainment focused on growing PlayStation game launches including Uncharted 4, Playstation VR and several live eventsHe later had short advisory stints at a business aviation company and a booking marketplace startupHe then joined Europe’s largest gaming publisher – Gameforge as their Head of CRM where he led multichannel campaigns that spanned across 400M+ usersHe then made the mage move to JPMorgan Chase as Executive Director of CRM where he built the CRM department from the ground upMost recently he’s moved to APAC Vietnam to be Director of Martech and Center of Excellence at a regional financial institutionA Blueprint for Building Effective Martech TeamsWhen constructing a Martech team, the approach should be tailored, recognizing that the company's size and the team's maturity significantly influence the team's structure and dynamics. Mauro's method begins with a clear understanding of the project's scope, the technologies required to address the business challenge, and the delivery of tangible business value. Identifying the necessary hard skills is just the initial step; the blend of technological prowess and customer-centric focus forms the foundation of a capable team.Equally crucial to hard skills, however, is the team members' attitude and characteristics. Mauro emphasizes the importance of adaptability and resilience, qualities that enable team members to navigate through the inevitable changes in project scope, technology, and industry trends. The ability to shift modes from discovery to definition and then to implementation, all while remaining open to adjustments, is essential. This flexibility is not just about coping with changes but thriving amidst them, ensuring the team's effectiveness and the project's success.The journey from the inception of a Martech project to its completion involves various phases, each demanding a different mindset and set of capabilities. The selection of team members who possess a well-rounded skill set, blending technical knowledge with a customer and experience obsession, is vital. Moreover, prioritizing soft skills and personality traits such as resilience and adaptability ensures the team can withstand and adapt to unforeseen challenges.Key takeaway: Building a winning Martech team requires more than just technical expertise. Invest in cross-training within your Martech team to ensure every member can handle multiple aspects of projects. This not only enhances team flexibility but also prepares each marketer for future roles in an ever-changing landscape.Interview Tips for Identifying Future Martech StarsSpotting the next Martech superstar hinges not just on evaluating their resume but on assessing their emotional intelligence (EQ) and problem-solving capabilities. Mauro shares that beyond the standard assessment of a candidate's career achievements, he delves into how they've navigated specific situations, tasks, actions, and results, adhering to the STAR model. This method uncovers not just what the candidate has done but how they've approached challenges and contributed to their team's success.After vetting a candidate's professional skills and understanding their career trajectory, Mauro shifts the focus towards EQ. He employs a unique set of questions designed to reveal how candidates perceive themselves and how they believe others perceive them. Asking candidates to describe themselves in four words and then to reflect on how their friends might describe them serves a dual purpose. It not only provides insights into the candidate's self-awareness but also opens a window into their personality and motivations.This approach to interviewing goes beyond traditional methods, allowing leaders to gain a deeper understanding of a candidate's interpersonal skills and how they relate to others. Such questions can surprise candidates, prompting them to think more deeply about themselves and how they interact with the world around them. The disparity, or lack thereof, between self-perception and external perception can be telling, revealing traits that are crucial for roles requiring high levels of collaboration and adaptability.Mauro's method exemplifies a comprehensive approach to identifying potential team members who are not just technically proficient but also emotionally intelligent and adept at navigating complex social dynamics. This balanced assessment strategy ensures that the Martech stars of the future are well-rounded individuals capable of contributing to a team's success on multiple levels.Key takeaway: Enhance your interview readiness by preparing to showcase not only your technical skills and professional achievements but also your emotional intelligence and self-awareness. Reflect on how you've tackled past challenges using the STAR method and consider how you perceive yourself versus how others might see you. This preparation can set you apart in interviews, demonstrating your depth as a candidate and your potential as a future Martech leader.Valuing Curiosity in Martech RecruitmentCuriosity is a fundamental trait for anyone in marketing. Mauro sheds light on its importance, emphasizing the ability to anticipate, inquire, and delve deeper into the unknowns is what sets apart the outstanding from the ordinary.Demonstrating curiosity during the hiring process can significantly impact a candidate's appeal. Mauro suggests going the extra mile by researching the company beyond the surface-level information available online. Engaging with employees or connections related to the company can provide deeper insights and demonstrate a genuine interest in the role and the organization. This proactive approach signals to the interviewer that the candidate is insightful, eager to learn, and prepared to engage with the team and its objectives on a profound level.Asking thoughtful and unconventional questions during an interview is another method to exhibit curiosity. It's not just about the questions themselves but the thought process that led to them. This indicates a candidate's ability to think critically and their desire to understand the rationale behind decisions and strategies. Such interactions reveal a person's inclination to explore and expand their knowledge base, crucial in a field where adaptation and innovation are key.Curiosity is the engine of personal and professional development, prompting individuals to question, learn, and innovate continuously.Key takeaway: Encourage and demonstrate curiosity by researching extensively, connecting with company insiders, and asking insightful questions during interviews. The goal is to showcase your proactive approach to learning and adapting. This trait not only enhances your a...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Abby Gailey, Director of Marketing Operations at Vibrent Health. Summary: Abby walks us through the complicated marketing ops world of B2B2C healthcare SaaS, emphasizing a move from sales-centric to engagement-focused martech. We dive into curiosity and continuous learning, using tools like webhooks to blend digital and physical marketing effectively. Quality assurance through negative checklists and professional growth through mentorship and communities are key themes for future proofing your martech career. Abby simplifies success in martech: blend innovation with teamwork, and balance your professional and personal life.About AbbyAbby started her career in arts administration in regional, non-profit theaters She moved over to academic conference production, where she later pivoted to a marketing and comms role and got her first taste of martechShe later worked as a Marketing Manager at Human Kinetics where she wore a variety of hatsShe moved over to Wolfram an enterprise tech company where she started as a product marketing analyst but later pivoted to marketing ops where she took ownership of Iterable and other martechToday she’s Director of Marketing Operations at Vibrent Health – the leading platform for precision medicine research – where she leads a team that works in email, SMS, push and direct mailNavigating Martech in a B2B2C SaaS ModelAbby sheds light on the unique challenges and opportunities of managing martech operations within a B2B2C business model, particularly in a sector as sensitive and regulated as healthcare research. At Vibrant Health, Abby's role straddles the line between serving business clients and engaging end users in medical studies. Her experience is notably distinct from the traditional B2B or B2C marketing roles, often dominated by discussions around lead generation, MQLs, and SQLs. Abby’s work involves partnering with prestigious institutions like the Dana Farber Cancer Institute and the National Institutes of Health, utilizing their platform to facilitate crucial medical research.The essence of her work emphasizes engagement and enablement over direct revenue generation, a departure from the revenue-centric focus seen in many marketing operations roles. This divergence stems from the regulatory landscape of healthcare, demanding precision and adherence to stringent guidelines in communications. Abby's toolkit is unique, relying less on mainstream martech solutions like Marketo or Salesforce, and more on specialized tools that cater to direct engagement through emails, SMS, and direct mail.Abby's perspective underscores a broader theme in martech: the necessity of tailoring marketing operations to the specific needs and regulations of the industry and business model. While mainstream conversations in martech often gravitate towards lead generation and sales enablement, Abby's experience highlights the importance of engagement and enablement in scenarios where direct revenue generation is not the primary focus.Key Takeaway: Abby's experience at Vibrant Health highlights the significance of customizing martech strategies to fit the unique requirements of a B2B2C business model in a regulated industry. The focus shifts from revenue generation to precise engagement and adherence to regulations, underscoring the need for specialized tools and approaches beyond the conventional sales-centric martech solutions.Driving Engagement in Highly Regulated IndustriesUnlike many marketers whose performance metrics revolve around revenue generation, Abby's focus is on engagement — a critical component in the context of medical research. This pivot away from revenue-centric metrics allows her team to concentrate on the effectiveness of communication strategies that encourage participation in health studies, which is paramount for the success of their projects.Her work involves navigating a complex landscape of HIPAA and governmental regulations, making her tasks not just about engagement, but also about compliance. Abby points out the similarities between challenges faced in healthcare marketing and those in other tightly regulated sectors like FinTech, highlighting the creative and nuanced approaches required to provide value within these constraints. Despite these challenges, Abby sees significant opportunities to impact user engagement and support the overarching goals of research and funding.Abby’s work underscores the importance of engagement in the success of healthcare research, where the actions of participants directly contribute to the progress and outcomes of studies. Her approach offers insights into the broader potential for marketing operations to support and enable core business functions beyond direct revenue generation, especially in sectors where regulatory compliance plays a significant role.Key takeaway: Marketers in regulated industries can leverage creative engagement strategies to drive participation and compliance, highlighting the value of focusing on outcomes beyond direct revenue. Abby's approach underscores the importance of tailoring marketing efforts to meet the unique challenges and opportunities of highly regulated fields.Cultivating Curiosity in Martech ProfessionalsCuriosity isn't just a trait; it's a fundamental skill for anyone navigating martech. Abby champions the idea of curiosity as the driving force behind learning and innovation in martech. She equates curiosity to the eagerness to press a button just to see what happens, a simple yet profound analogy for the exploratory mindset required in this field.This approach to technology and problem-solving isn't about reckless experimentation but embodies a deeper, more meaningful engagement with the tools and strategies at one’s disposal. Abby highlights the importance of continuous learning, whether through webinars about new features or strategies to enhance user engagement. The martech landscape is perpetually evolving, with an endless array of tools emerging. Staying ahead, or at least keeping pace, demands a proactive attitude toward learning and experimentation.Abby's method underscores an essential truth about martech: its dynamism is not a challenge but an opportunity for those willing to explore and learn. This mindset transforms potential obstacles into puzzles to be solved, making the work engaging and rewarding. Her favorite activities for skill acquisition—such as attending webinars and exploring new features—illustrate practical ways professionals can cultivate their curiosity.Key takeaway: Regularly engage with webinars and hands-on experimentation with new martech tools to sharpen your problem-solving skills and keep pace with industry innovations.The Value of Hands-On Learning in Marketing OperationsThere's a unique value placed on hands-on, experiential learning in MOPs. Abby emphasizes how on-the-job training surpasses traditional education for practical skill acquisition in the martech field. Abby’s journey, like many in our field, showcases the immense benefits of diving directly into the tools and systems that define the industry and learning through direct interaction and problem-solving.This method of learning isn't just about understanding how a particular platform operates; it extends to grasping the soup of data flows, system integrations, and the art of engaging end-users in meaningful ways. Abby highlights the importance of facing real-world challenges—those specific to a company’s vertical and the common hurdles encountered with tech systems. This hands-on approach cultivates a problem-solving mindset, essenti...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Stephen Stouffer, VP, Digital Transformation & Innovation at SaaScend.Summary: Stephen shares practical and innovative examples of combining AI tools with iPaaS tools to do things like parsing email auto-responses and subcontracting tech support questions from family members. He’s a fan of starting simple, gradually advancing to more complex solutions, all while maintaining a keen focus on ethical considerations and human interaction. We also cover growth potentials of having a stint in the agency world, is martech really for engineers and the benefits of thinking of emails like billboards on the highway. About StephenStephen started his career as a web developer before moving to a marketing analyst role where he got his first taste of marketing and sales alignment as well as marketing automationThis led him to a Marketing Automation Migration Manager role at Cheshire Impact where he managed over 25 platform migrations in less than a yearHe then worked in-house at a few software companies including iDonate, Thryv as well as FireMon – a security policy management platform where he served as Sr Manager of Marketing Operations and led all the magic behind each GTM programMost recently, Stephen’s returned to his agency roots as VP of Digital Transformation and Innovation at SaaScend – a 20-person revenue operations agencyAutomating Parental Tech Support with AIStephen's journey into automating tech support for his mom using AI showcases a blend of ingenuity and practicality. Faced with an array of tech-related questions from his mother, from resetting routers to converting recipes into different metric units, he sought a solution that could offer simple, direct answers without the clutter of search engine results. Recognizing the ease with which texting comes to his parents compared to navigating the internet, Stephen ingeniously integrated Twilio with GPT, leveraging Tray.io as the intermediary. This setup allows text messages to transform into queries for OpenAI's API, which then sends back clear, useful responses.The beauty of this system lies in its simplicity and effectiveness. By funneling questions through a familiar medium—text messaging—Stephen's mom can now access a wealth of information at her fingertips. Whether she's looking for new restaurant suggestions after moving to a new area or needs quick answers for her culinary adventures, the AI assistant provides concise, relevant information. This approach not only empowers his mother to find information independently but also maintains their daily communication, highlighting the importance of family connections amidst technological solutions.Key Takeaway: Stephen's inventive use of AI for handling his mother's tech support inquiries demonstrates the transformative potential of integrating simple technologies to solve everyday challenges. This strategy not only streamlines the process of obtaining information but also enriches the user's experience by delivering tailored answers through a preferred communication channel.Making Use of Email Auto-responses with ChatGPT and Tray.ioStephen's presentation at Dreamforce was a bold exploration of AI's potential in streamlining email management, a topic ripe with complexities and nuances. Opting for the risky path of live demos, he engaged his audience directly, inviting them to submit various types of emails into an open text field. Utilizing Tray.io as his iPaas tool of choice, these inputs were then processed through OpenAI's API to classify the emails and execute appropriate actions based on their nature—whether setting up follow-up tasks, unsubscribing contacts, or updating records in Salesforce and Pardot.This daring demonstration not only showcased the practical applications of AI in automating mundane tasks but also ignited discussions on data compliance and ethical considerations in AI usage. Stephen's session highlighted the efficiency and adaptability of AI in handling massive volumes of email responses, providing a glimpse into the future of digital communication management. The success of this live demo, buoyed by flawless internet connectivity, underscored the reliability and transformative power of AI in enhancing operational processes within the tech ecosystem.Stephen's process for integrating auto-responses from email clients into GPT is remarkably straightforward. By designating a reply-to address in your automation platform, all auto-responses are directed to a specific inbox. From there you create a forwarding rule for all incoming emails in that inbox to another address provided by Tray.io. This address acts as an endpoint, channeling the email content directly into the iPaas tool for processing. From there you can prompt ChatGPT by bringing in the payload of those individual emails.Despite the simplicity of this setup, Stephen cautions about the volume of data being handled, highlighting the importance of managing the flow to ensure accuracy in parsing and prompt building. This method not only simplifies the initial step of data collection but also underscores the intricacies involved in refining AI to perform nuanced tasks like accurately unsubscribing contacts.Key Takeaway: Stephen's Dreamforce presentation exemplified the innovative use of AI in automating useful tasks that are often left behind because of the manual nature. His live demo reinforced the potential of AI to transform mundane operational tasks into automated, intelligent workflows, setting a precedent for future applications in business and technology.Unveiling the Early Stages of AI in Marketing OperationsStephen's insights into the maturity of the martech market, particularly regarding the integration of AI into marketing operations, highlight a crucial phase of development that many professionals are navigating. His observations, shared after captivating the audience at Dreamforce, shed light on the novelty and potential of AI to revolutionize marketing practices. Stephen emphasizes that we are at the beginning of this journey, with much of the excitement and innovation concentrated in regions like North America, notably ahead of other areas such as Europe and Australia. This disparity showcases the varying pace of technological adoption across the globe, reminding us that advancements like marketing automation, now seen as standard in some parts, are just gaining traction elsewhere.Stephen points out a common misconception within the industry: the belief that AI's application is limited to those with deep technical expertise, such as data engineers. This notion, he argues, often overshadows the simpler, yet profoundly impactful uses of AI that can benefit marketers at all levels. For instance, AI's capability to generate email subject lines or assist in content ideation represents an accessible entry point for professionals seeking to leverage technology to streamline their workflows.The enthusiasm Stephen encountered post-Dreamforce, where attendees expressed astonishment at AI's capabilities, underscores a widespread underestimation of AI's current role and potential in marketing. This reaction suggests a gap between the perceived complexity of AI applications and the practical, immediate benefits they can offer. Stephen's approach to demystifying AI—highlighting straightforward applications and encouraging experimentation with basic tasks—provides a valuable roadmap for professionals looking to embrace AI without feeling overwhelmed.Through his experience, Stephen advocates for starting small with AI, focusing on automating simple tasks that can significantly enhance efficiency and creativity. This strategy not only makes ...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Jessenia Francisco, Director, Marketing Operations at Lucid. Summary: Jessenia shares her journey from nonprofit to tech, emphasizing adaptability and purpose. She tackles imposter syndrome by fostering an inclusive culture, explores the strategic use of tools like Lucidchart in her own day to day, and advocates for mindful martech selection, particularly the integration of AI, balancing innovation with practicality. Her work with Women in Revenue underscores the power of mentorship in empowering women in revenue roles, highlighting the importance of community and strategic thinking for professional and personal growth. About JesseniaJessenia started her career in Finance at Merril Lynch and Bank of AmericaShe pivoted to the non profit space joining the Association of Latino Professionals for America where she started to get in fundraising operationsShe was later recruited by the NewSchools Venture Fund and moved out to the Bay area to roll out Salesforce across the organizationShe then joined the Opportunity Fund as Development Operations Manager focused on improving the donor acquisition process and marketing automation implementationJessenia then made the mega move to Asana where she started in Sales Operations and later pivoted to Marketing Operations leading Martech Program and eventually becoming Head of Marketing AutomationToday she’s Director of Marketing Operations at Lucid Software, the creators of the popular flowchart and diagram tool; LucidchartShifting from Counting Coins to Making ChangeJessenia's career evolution from finance to the nonprofit sector was not just a job change; it was a pursuit of impact over income. She sought to make a tangible difference, moving away from the profit-focused dialogues of her finance days towards creating systemic change. This quest for purpose led her to the nonprofit world, where she found the work deeply rewarding.Reflecting on her journey, Jessenia realized she had been involved in operations long before it became a recognized field, combining her analytical skills with business operations even during her finance tenure. This foundation served her well in the nonprofit sector, allowing her to apply her skills to support community-driven initiatives. She was particularly moved by the stories of the communities she worked with, finding a profound connection to the people and the transformative changes her efforts contributed to.At NewSchools Venture Fund, Jessenia experienced the intersection of venture philanthropy and educational reform. This organization, pioneering in merging investment with educational innovation, aimed to disrupt traditional learning models. She was fascinated by project-based learning, as seen in a Napa school, where even kindergartners engaged in complex concepts like velocity and gravity. Such moments underscored the significant impact of strategic funding in education.The nonprofit sector also presented Jessenia with numerous growth opportunities, from implementing CRMs to leading marketing operations. These experiences built her expertise in sales and marketing operations, highlighting the sector's potential for rapid professional development. Jessenia appreciated the creative challenges and the "champagne taste on a beer budget" mentality, which taught her to maximize limited resources effectively.However, Jessenia also faced challenges, including under-resourcing in technology and potential career stagnation. The nonprofit world's inclination to deprioritize tech investments and the limitations in career growth posed significant hurdles. Additionally, leadership changes and political dynamics within organizations could disrupt projects and affect the effectiveness of operations work.Key Takeaway: Jessenia's narrative reveals the dual nature of nonprofit work: its capacity to fulfill a deep-seated need for purpose and impact, juxtaposed with the practical challenges of limited resources and career growth ceilings. Her journey highlights the importance of adaptability, creativity, and a steadfast focus on mission-driven work amidst these challenges.Career Leaps From Small Ponds to Big Tech OceansJessenia's career leap from niche nonprofits to tech giants like Asana and Lucid sheds light on the value and versatility of working in different organizational sizes. Initially joining Asana when it was a relatively small team of 350, she quickly dispelled the myth that smaller entities lack significance. Her experience at Asana, a company that grew from a "cult classic" to a major player, exemplifies the unique advantages of smaller companies, such as a close-knit work culture and rapid adaptability.Small companies, Jessenia notes, offer a level of intimacy and direct impact that larger organizations can struggle to match. From knowing a colleague's preference for Diet Coke to having the ability to influence business outcomes directly, these environments foster a sense of community and effectiveness. Yet, she also confronts the misconception that privilege and pedigree are absent in smaller settings. Even in a tight-knit team, backgrounds of privilege and elite education can influence dynamics, something Jessenia encountered firsthand.However, as companies grow, maintaining the essence of a smaller organization's culture poses challenges. Jessenia emphasizes the importance of meeting people and business needs as they evolve, advocating for empathy and adaptability in processes. She warns against being wedded to past solutions or technologies, stressing the need to tailor approaches to the organization's current context rather than relying on what worked elsewhere.Key Takeaway: Jessenia makes the point that smaller companies offer a richness of experience and that you will need a nuanced approach if transitioning to or scaling within larger tech companies. She highlights the importance of adaptability, empathy, and a keen understanding of the unique dynamics at play, offering insights into successfully navigating career transitions and fostering personal and professional growth in any organizational landscape.Reflections on Overcoming Imposter SyndromeJessenia tackles imposter syndrome with a unique blend of emotional intelligence and mindful reflection. Instead of reacting on impulse, she takes time to process complex ideas, valuing collaboration over solitary effort. Recognizing when to ask for help has been crucial in her journey, turning potential hurdles into learning opportunities and stronger bonds with her colleagues.Her approach to leadership focuses on empowering her team, encouraging them to confidently express their insights and take ownership of their expertise. This method not only addresses imposter syndrome but also promotes a culture where accountability and teamwork thrive. Jessenia believes in the power of vulnerability and support, showing that admitting you don't know everything can be your greatest strength.Jessenia actively seeks out communities for both professional and personal growth, especially during challenging times like the COVID-19 pandemic. By engaging with networks, she ensures no one has to face difficulties alone, emphasizing the importance of collective wisdom and shared experiences.Key Takeaway: The cornerstone of her strategy against imposter syndrome lies in fostering environments where asking questions, seeking clarity, and valuing each team member's viewpoint are encouraged. This approach not only helps combat feelings of inadequacy but also strengthens the team's cohesion and effectiveness.Cracking the MOPs Code with Lucidchart's Vis...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Josh Kim, Growth Marketing Lead at Notion. Summary: Josh elevated growth marketing from scattered tactics to a unified framework, emphasizing data-informed decisions, teamwork, and a cohesive vision. He detailed the significance of a marketer's adaptable role in a growth pod, the value of strategic martech use, and the power of experimentation in understanding user motivation. By highlighting the synergy between community, product innovation, and growth, alongside the importance of continuous learning through programs like Reforge, Josh provided a compact yet rich guide for marketers seeking sustainable growth.About JoshJosh started his career in strategic planning and analysis before moving to growth product managementHe was the second Growth PM hire at Inflection – an employment screening startup where he worked on their Conversion Optimization teamHe then moved over to Marketing Operations at Credit Karma and later became the first hire on their Growth and Engagement team where he owned implementation and testing focusing on MAUsJosh then spent 3 years at Spotify where he held different Growth Marketing roles owning different products, from Consumer to Creator and finally marketplace Most recently he’s moved over to Notion first focusing on Growth, lifecycle and product marketing and recently leading the Growth Marketing teamJosh also advises startups within the First Round Capital portfolio as an Expert in ResidenceHarnessing Growth Marketing Insights from Top Tech BrandsJosh shares invaluable lessons from his journey through renowned tech companies, spotlighting the essence of growth marketing and brand development. At the heart of his experience is a nuanced understanding of how to blend growth strategies with brand identity, creating a compelling narrative that resonates with users and drives business expansion.Starting at Credit Karma, Josh dove deep into the mechanics of marketing, where he honed his skills in crafting campaigns that not only speak to the product but do so with personality and flair. This foundational stage was crucial, laying the groundwork for his growth marketing philosophy: combining effective brand communication with a genuine connection to the audience.His tenure at Spotify offered a masterclass in synchronizing brand and growth efforts to fuel business scalability. Josh highlights the Spotify Wrapped campaign as a quintessential example of this harmony. This initiative wasn't just a branding triumph; it was a data-driven strategy that leveraged insights to engage both creators and consumers, showcasing the power of integrating brand narratives with growth objectives.At Notion, leading the growth marketing team, Josh finds himself among a cadre of exceptional talent, all united in their mission to make tool making ubiquitous. This role has underscored the importance of working on products that strike a chord with their users. Notion's success, according to Josh, lies in its ability to articulate a brand voice that appeals to a wide array of communities and individual users alike, demonstrating the profound impact of aligning product utility with user passion.Josh's reflections from his experiences at Credit Karma, Spotify, and Notion reveal a consistent theme: the significance of building a brand that not only stands out but also genuinely connects with its audience. This connection fosters an approachability and loyalty that transcends the traditional boundaries of product marketing, turning ordinary users into passionate advocates.Key Takeaway: Josh's experience underscores the critical role of brand marketing in growth. By weaving together insightful data, compelling narratives, and genuine consumer engagement, companies can cultivate a loyal user base and drive sustainable growth. This approach not only elevates the product but also cements the brand's place in the hearts and minds of its audience, proving that at the intersection of growth and brand, remarkable business success can be achieved.Evolution of Growth Marketing From Hacking to Holistic StrategyJosh reflects on the journey of growth marketing from its "growth hacking" days to its current multidisciplinary nature, offering a nuanced perspective on how the field has matured to become an integral part of strategic business development. His insights shed light on the transformation of growth tactics from quick fixes to foundational strategies rooted in data and collaborative team efforts.Growth hacking, once the buzzword of startup culture, aimed to shortcut success with clever tricks and shortcuts. Josh candidly shares his discomfort with the term now, emphasizing that true growth cannot be "hacked." Instead, it requires a solid foundation based on first principles and a deep understanding of data to drive sustainable progress. This shift signifies a move from seeking immediate gains to establishing strategies that ensure long-term success.At the core of successful growth teams today is their multidisciplinary composition. Josh advocates for the inclusion of growth marketers directly within product teams to facilitate faster, more impactful decisions. This approach, pioneered during his tenure at Credit Karma and Spotify, has proven highly effective, especially at Notion, where growth marketers play a pivotal role in most product groups. This setup fosters an environment where different perspectives converge, leading to more holistic and successful growth strategies.Josh outlines three critical elements that define a strong growth team: A shared North Star: A unified goal or metric provides clarity and focus, guiding the team through the myriad of options and strategies available.Clear roles and responsibilities: Clear delineation of roles allows team members to leverage their strengths and address weaknesses collaboratively.A commitment to strong fundamentals: Adherence to growth fundamentals, including rapid iteration and rigorous test hygiene, ensures that strategies are both effective and sustainable.Key Takeaway: The evolution of growth marketing from opportunistic "hacking" to a strategic, multidisciplinary approach highlights the importance of foundational data analysis, cross-functional collaboration, and a clear, shared vision for success. Josh's experience illustrates that the most effective growth strategies emerge from teams that integrate diverse expertise, focus on fundamental principles, and align around a common objective, paving the way for sustainable business growth.Defining the Marketer's Role in a Growth PodJosh provides a compelling narrative on tailoring the growth marketer's role within a team or "pod" to enhance effectiveness and foster innovation. His approach underscores the importance of matching a growth marketer's strengths with the team's needs, creating a dynamic synergy that propels both strategy and execution forward.At the heart of Josh's strategy is the nuanced matchmaking between the team's requirements and the growth marketer's expertise. This process begins with a thorough assessment of both the team's strengths and gaps and the growth marketer's skill set. Whether it's proficiency in paid ads, data analytics, email marketing, or lifecycle management, the goal is to identify where the growth marketer can add the most value. This bespoke alignment ensures that the growth marketer's contribution is both impactful and complementary to the team's existing capabilities.Josh's personal experience at Spotify serves as a prime example of this approach in action. Identifying his strengths in data and analytics, lifecycle email engagement, and experiment design, Josh integrated himself into a pod th...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Debbie Mayen, Head of Marketing Operations at Logitech.Summary: Debbie went from dreaming of diplomacy to steering the global martech ship at Logitech and takes us through a masterclass in making well timed bets and the art of simplifying martech. Her marketing operations mantra includes clear processes, open lines of communication, and giving her team the reins to shine. She walks us through why she’s big on the whole marketing-meets-IT vibe, pushing for teamwork that taps into the best of both. And how her focus on celebrating wins and building an anti-fragile culture is key to withstanding chaos and uncertainty in a profession riddled with burnout. About DeborahDeborah got her start as an International Project Manager where she led big IT projects, and later pivoted to international MARCOM projects and bizdevThis led Deborah to a pivotal role as Marketing and comms manager at Encyclopaedia Britannica where she would spend 7 years managing marketing activities in Latin America and BrazilShe also spent 5 years as a Marketing Automation Project Leader at Molex – where she was focused on optimizing tech stack and lead generation processesToday, Deborah is Head of Global Marketing Operations at Logitech, where her team drives operational excellence for Logitech's B2B Marketing team focused on strategy and automation, segmentation and ABM Embracing Nonlinear Paths into MartechDebbie's foray into the world of martech is a tale of unexpected turns and adaptation. Growing up with a nomadic lifestyle due to her father's career in the oil industry, Debbie was exposed to diverse cultures and languages from an early age. This multicultural upbringing sparked an initial desire to pursue a career in international law or diplomacy. However, as she ventured through university, the reality of the constant movement and its impact on family life led her to reconsider her career trajectory.Opting for a more stable living situation, Debbie still yearned to maintain her connection to the international sphere. This longing eventually steered her toward the realm of international business, landing her a role at Encyclopedia Britannica, focusing on the Latin American market. It was here, amidst the challenge of managing a vast geographic area with a limited budget, that Debbie stumbled upon martech.In the early days of martech, with fewer than 200 vendors and most tools available only in English, resources were scarce. Yet, this did not deter Debbie. Leveraging tools like Silverpop, she ingeniously maximized her small budget to achieve significant impact across Latin America. This experience not only honed her skills but also ignited a passion for martech, drawn to its capacity for measurable results and efficient campaign management without the need for expanding her team.Debbie's entry into martech was born out of necessity but flourished into a deep-seated love for the field. Her journey reflects a seamless blend of her identity and her professional path, showcasing how embracing change and leveraging available resources can lead to unexpected and rewarding destinations.Key Takeaway: Debbie's transition from aspiring diplomat to martech enthusiast underscores the power of adaptability and the unexpected paths our careers can take. Her story is a testament to the impact of embracing one’s background and challenges as opportunities for growth and innovation in the ever-evolving martech landscape.Navigating the Dawn of MartechDebbie's entrance into the martech scene came at a time when the landscape was vastly different from today's sprawling ecosystem. Reflecting on Scott Brinker's landscape charts, she recalls a period of consolidation and the nascent stages of martech, drawing parallels to the current explosion of AI tools in the sector. For Debbie, the early days presented both challenges and opportunities. The relatively small number of tools available meant she could delve deeper into the resources at her disposal, turning limitations into advantages.This era of martech was marked by significant acquisitions, such as Silverpop's integration into IBM's portfolio and Pardot's acquisition by Salesforce, signifying the beginning of industry consolidation. For Debbie, being part of the martech field from its inception allowed her to develop a comprehensive understanding of marketing automation platforms, a knowledge that would set the foundation for her future expertise.Her early start in martech endowed her with the ability to navigate the ever-expanding landscape without getting overwhelmed by the plethora of choices available today. Debbie's journey underscores the importance of foundational knowledge and the advantage of focusing deeply on available tools before branching out. As the martech landscape continues to grow, her experience offers valuable lessons in staying grounded amidst the noise and the allure of new technologies.Key Takeaway: Debbie's early experiences in the evolving martech landscape highlight the benefits of deep specialization and a focused approach to technology adoption. Her story is a testament to the power of leveraging limited resources for maximum impact and the importance of discerning evaluation in the face of rapid industry expansion.The Art of Simplifying MartechDebbie champions a philosophy of simplicity in navigating the galaxy of martech tools. She believes in a measured approach, cautioning against the allure of new technologies without a clear understanding of organizational needs. For Debbie, each addition to the martech stack represents not just potential benefits but also added complexity and potential debt. She emphasizes a cost-benefit analysis to ensure the advantages of any new tool significantly outweigh the costs, considering factors like team workload, system integration, and the tool's alignment with the company's evolving goals.This practical mindset extends to prioritizing work-life balance for her team and ensuring that any new technology seamlessly integrates into existing systems without creating unnecessary burdens. Debbie's old-school martech perspective of "less is more" serves as a guiding principle, advocating for a focus on what truly adds value and drives forward the company's objectives.Key Takeaway: Debbie's strategy in martech selection is grounded in simplicity and practicality, underscoring the importance of a discerning approach to tool adoption. Her advice encourages a balance between embracing innovation and maintaining a streamlined, effective martech stack that aligns with both immediate and long-term business goals.Navigating the Challenges of Marketing Operations at LogitechAt Logitech, the marketing operations team faces the intricate challenge of serving various internal and external stakeholders across different groups and brands. Debbie highlights that the key to managing these challenges lies in recognizing the team's central role as a service arm within the organization. With each business group having unique demands, it becomes crucial to maintain a bird's-eye view of all requests, ensuring no group is unaware of the others' needs.Process orientation emerges as a fundamental strategy for the mops team. By adhering to well-defined processes, the team not only safeguards the quality of their work but also empowers themselves to manage and prioritize requests effectively. Debbie stresses the importance of clarity and communication in this dynamic environment. She encourages her team to engage in open dialogues with stakeholders, offering the ability to push back on requests when necessary, provided it's done with clear reasoning and possible alternatives.This approach fosters a culture where markete...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Ezra Fishman, VP of Growth at Wistia. About EzraEzra started his career as an engineer developing devices to help treat diabetes and obesity at GI DynamicsHe later had a short stint as an Operations Manager at an investment firm that was dedicated to funding health tech startupsAfter completing his MBA, Ezra joined a video tech startup called Wistia as their Director of Marketing and after 4 years he transitioned to leading Business IntelligenceToday Ezra is VP of Growth at Wistia where he’s now spent over 12 years, seeing the company grow from a handful of customers to over 375,000 and becoming one of the top vPaaS tools on the planetSummary: Ezra is a strategic and technical visionary at Wistia. He combines an audience-first content strategy with a data-informed approach to drive sustainable growth. He emphasizes the importance of genuine relationships over transactions and advocates for leveraging data to inform decisions while valuing human intuition. His journey from initiating a central data warehouse to implementing tools like Census, Fivetran, and dbt showcases how a single source of truth can enhance operational efficiency. Ezra's experience, from fostering a data-informed culture to embracing a scrappy startup mentality with a focus on high-impact ideas and rigorous A/B testing, reflects a commitment to strategic evolution and the balance between data and creativity. His insights offer invaluable lessons on growing and engaging with audiences in meaningful ways, advocating for a blend of strategy, intuition, and data-informed decisions in marketing.From Wistia’s First Customer to Early Team MemberImagine this: Ezra, initially just a fan from the sidelines, watching Wistia, a fledgling startup by his buddies Chris Savage and Brendan Schwartz, trying to carve its niche in the world of video. This journey from an intrigued observer to Wistia's first customer, and eventually, a pivotal team member, is nothing short of a cinematic twist.Back in the day, while Ezra was navigating the complexities of medical devices, Chris and Brendan were brainstorming Wistia's next big thing. The plot thickens when Ezra, amidst casual banter in their Boston living room, pitches a game-changing idea sparked by his own professional hurdles. Picture this: medical procedures generating heaps of video data, with the only sharing option being the archaic method of mailing DVDs worldwide. Enter Ezra's lightbulb moment—why not transform Wistia into a haven for secure, efficient video collaboration?Fast forward to Wistia marking its foray into uncharted territories. This wasn't just about ditching DVDs for digital; it was about reimagining how professionals could leverage video for learning and collaboration.The narrative takes a delightful turn when, over a lunch filled with reminiscing and future-gazing, Chris and Brendan propose a novel idea to Ezra. With a shared laugh over their collective naiveté in marketing and business management, they decide to join forces. This was the moment of serendipity, the kind that you'd find in tales of old, where the hero embarks on an unforeseen quest.Wistia's storyline evolves with a bold strategic pivot, transitioning from a focus on internal video sharing to mastering the art of video marketing. This wasn't merely a shift in services; it was a leap towards redefining Wistia’s essence. The introduction of video embeds and performance tracking was akin to discovering a new continent in the realm of video marketing. This pivot was the catalyst for an explosive growth, attracting a myriad of users and establishing Wistia as a beacon in the marketing universe.Ezra's saga with Wistia illustrates a kaleidoscope of lessons: the beauty of perspective, the strength found in adaptability, and the magic of seizing hidden opportunities. It's a testament to how internal insights can dramatically alter a company's course, steering it towards realms of untapped potential and success.Key Takeaway: Ezra's journey with Wistia showcases the power of leveraging personal experiences to spot unique opportunities in the professional sphere. His story teaches us the importance of staying open to unexpected career paths and the transformative potential of internal insights. For any professional, Ezra's narrative is a reminder to embrace adaptability and look beyond conventional boundaries, because sometimes, the next big shift in your career or business strategy could emerge from your own unique challenges and observations.Ezra's Audience-First Philosophy Beyond Funnel VisionEzra's reflections on Wistia's early content strategy are a testament to the power of foresight and the courage to challenge the status quo. In an era dominated by the lead capture mantra, the idea of prioritizing audience engagement over immediate conversions was nothing short of revolutionary. Ezra's insights into this paradigm shift reveal not just a tactical change, but a philosophical evolution in marketing.At the heart of this transformation was a simple observation: content that educates, engages, and entertains fosters a community of brand advocates. Ezra noticed early on that content about video production on a budget or maximizing video effectiveness wasn't just filling up space on Wistia's blog; it was actively drawing people into a conversation with the brand. This wasn't engagement that could be easily quantified by the number of leads generated, but its impact was undeniable. Website visits and signups surged post-publication, showcasing the tangible benefits of nurturing an audience.This observation led to a critical realization: gating content might boost lead numbers temporarily, but it dampens genuine engagement. The stark contrast between open access and restricted content provided clear evidence that the key to sustained growth was fostering an environment where quality trumped quantity. This approach required a commitment to producing stellar content that people didn't just stumble upon but sought out and shared.Ezra's philosophy underscores a critical marketing truth: building an audience is about cultivating relationships, not just capturing data points. This mindset shift from a focus on quantity to a dedication to quality was, at the time, a bold stance that set Wistia apart. It wasn't about bombarding people with sales pitches but about drawing them into a meaningful dialogue with the brand.This audience-first approach is not just about creating fans; it's about building a community that grows organically, powered by the quality of interaction and content. The lesson here is clear: when marketers prioritize genuine engagement over short-term metrics, they lay the foundation for lasting growth and brand loyalty.Key Takeaway: Ezra's strategic pivot to an audience-first approach at Wistia highlights the lasting value of building genuine relationships over transactional interactions. In today's content-saturated world, the brands that stand out are those that treat their audience not as leads to be captured but as a community to be cultivated. This philosophy doesn't just elevate a brand's marketing game; it transforms customers into advocates, ensuring sustainable growth and a competitive edge.Data-Informed Instead of Data-DrivenEzra's path through the diverse landscapes of marketing, business intelligence (BI), and growth at Wistia is a narrative about the confluence of data and human insight. His tenure, marked by wearing multiple hats across different roles, underscores a singular truth: the realms of marketing, BI, and growth, despite their distinctions, share a common core centered around attracting and engaging people, converting them, and leveraging data for informed decision-making.Ezra, self-...

Summary: Justin is a polished voice of reason in martech. In our conversation, he focused on the practicality of AI, highlighting its capability to transform data into actionable insights, aiding in a deeper understanding of customer needs. We also covered the shift towards flexible, composable tech stacks and the importance of diverse skills alongside a few Sci-fi references. He also proposed a transparent, Shark Tank-style approach for selecting martech vendors, underscoring the need for effective evaluation methods. This episode offers practical guidance for marketers aiming to navigate the rise of gen AI in marketing.Balancing Opportunity and Skepticism With AI in Marketing Justin's insights highlight a critical juncture in marketing technology: the integration of AI, specifically GPT-4, into daily practices. He acknowledges the prevalent fear of missing out (FOMO) among marketers, emphasizing the importance of staying abreast with AI advancements. Justin points out the dual nature of this fear: the anxiety about falling behind and the apprehension towards the implications of AI in marketing. His perspective reflects a cautious yet necessary embrace of technology.Interestingly, Justin positions himself as a technologist with a skeptical eye, wary of jumping onto the latest trend without due diligence. This approach is particularly relevant in a field bombarded with yearly hype cycles. His focus on adding value rather than noise is commendable. By mapping out AI's potential use cases in marketing, Justin contributes to a more structured understanding of this technology. He shifts the conversation from mere adoption to thoughtful integration, ensuring AI's relevance and applicability to marketing operations.The idea of mapping AI's role in marketing is not just about adoption but about understanding where and how it fits into the broader marketing strategy. Justin's approach of breaking down and analyzing different aspects of AI in marketing is crucial for its effective utilization. His methodical and analytical approach towards AI adoption in marketing is a testament to the need for balance - recognizing the potential of new technology while maintaining a healthy skepticism.Key takeaway: Marketers should balance the excitement of AI's potential with a thoughtful, structured approach to its integration into marketing operations. Understanding and mapping AI's practical applications in marketing can turn the fear of missing out into an opportunity for innovation and strategic advancement.Transitioning Rule-Based to AI-Driven Marketing StrategiesJustin delves into the complexities of transitioning from traditional rule-based automation to AI-driven approaches like next best action and propensity modeling in marketing. This shift, he points out, is not just a technological upgrade but a fundamental change in how marketing campaigns are conceptualized and executed. His insights are particularly relevant for marketing teams accustomed to rule-based systems and now facing the challenge of integrating more sophisticated, AI-powered models.The promise of AI in marketing, especially in next best action scenarios, is substantial. Justin notes that while the concept has been a long-sought 'Holy Grail,' it's now becoming a practical reality. However, he cautions against being swept away by the technological possibilities without considering their practical implications. The key, according to Justin, is to subordinate the technology to what works effectively as a marketer, always keeping the customer context in focus.For B2C scenarios or low-value product-led growth motions, AI-driven recommendations can be incredibly effective. However, Justin points out the limitations in complex B2B contexts, such as selling high-value products or services. These scenarios involve decision committees, contracts, and multiple stakeholders, where a simple AI-generated email is unlikely to clinch a deal. He suggests a more nuanced application of AI, perhaps integrating insights from sales calls or digital body language to tailor communications more effectively.Regarding quality assurance in AI-driven marketing, Justin highlights the potential pitfalls. He shares an example of an AI-generated email that was impressively detailed yet glaringly inaccurate, underscoring the brand risk associated with unmoderated AI content. This example illustrates the current necessity for a human in the loop, balancing AI's efficiency with the nuanced understanding that only human oversight can provide.Key takeaway: Justin's perspective on integrating AI into marketing strategies emphasizes a thoughtful, customer-centric approach. The shift from rule-based to AI-driven models demands not only technological adoption but also a strategic reevaluation of marketing practices. The balance between leveraging AI's capabilities and maintaining human oversight is crucial to navigate this transition successfully, ensuring that marketing efforts remain effective and resonate authentically with the target audience.Balancing AI Adoption with Practical Realities in MarketingJustin addresses the emotional aspect of adopting AI in marketing, acknowledging the tension between the excitement of AI's potential and the reality of its practical application. This emotional dimension is often overlooked in the rush to embrace new technology. Justin highlights the challenge of integrating AI without losing the human element, a concern particularly relevant in an era where personalization and authenticity are crucial.The key, according to Justin, is to find a balance between being at the forefront of AI adoption and ensuring that the technology genuinely enhances marketing efforts. He shares his strategy of assessing AI tools based on their feasibility and impact. Some applications, like AI-generated LinkedIn posts, might be feasible but not necessarily advisable due to their impact on authenticity and personal engagement. On the other hand, AI-generated imagery offers significant benefits, producing unique and compelling visuals that surpass traditional stock images.Justin's approach is driven by the practical benefits of AI, focusing on areas where AI can offer substantial support. For instance, processing large volumes of unstructured text, a tedious task for humans, is an area where AI can provide significant relief. His advice for listeners is to let their needs guide their adoption of AI, rather than succumbing to the pressure of forced adoption. By doing so, they can leverage AI where it truly adds value, enhancing their work while retaining the essential human touch.Key takeaway: In martech, the adoption of AI should be driven by practicality and real needs, rather than the pressure to conform to trends. Evaluating AI tools based on their feasibility and impact ensures that their integration enhances marketing efforts without compromising the human element that remains essential to effective communication.AI as a Tool for Enhancing Creative MarketingJustin discusses the role of AI in transforming unstructured data into actionable insights, particularly in the context of marketing and content creation. He touches upon an intriguing shift from the traditional focus on quantitative data to the exploration of qualitative insights through AI tools. This shift is significant, especially in an era where content creators and marketers have predominantly leaned towards quantitative analysis.Justin reflects on the unique nature of creative work and the essential human insights that drive its excellence. He is of the view that certain aspects of creativity and human consciousness are inherently unique and cannot be replicated by AI. In his analogy, AI is like a highly responsive paintbrush, capable of executing tasks based on verbal instructions, y...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Crissy Saunders, CEO and Co-Founder at CS2. Summary: Crissy takes us through the evolution from tactical management to strategic leadership, and the adaptation to changing marketing strategies. We discuss the significance of specialized platforms in marketing automation, the critical role of the sales funnel in revenue growth, the shift in email marketing towards 'inbox influence', and revitalizing outbound marketing strategies. This episode is a concise yet profound guide, offering actionable insights for martech professionals to navigate their careers and strategies effectively.About CrissyCrissy started her career at Marketo when the company was only 4 years old. She was quickly promoted to Marketing Ops manager where she led weekly training of internal users as well as lead management and technical execution for enterprise clientsShe then moved over to Jive Software as Global Marketing Operations Manager and later Agari as a Sr Demand Gen manager She co founded Walkzee, an app that connected sheltered dogs with dog lovers who needed a walking buddyShe also co-founded CS2 with her husband Charlie, a martech agency that powers efficient and predictable revenue which has grown to over 15 team members and has served some of the coolest brands including Gong, Sendoso, Coursera and SalesLoftShe also finds time to be a podcast co-host, a women in revenue co-founder, a partner at MKT1 and an advisor for Syncari and ChilipiperNavigating the Dual Dynamics of Marriage and Business in MartechCrissy's journey with her husband Charlie in the realm of marketing operations (martech ops) is a testament to how personal and professional relationships can synergize effectively. Their story began in a work environment, where they were assigned to different global roles. Crissy, based in Palo Alto, and Charlie, working from the EMEA office, quickly realized the need for a counterpart due to the time difference. This necessity sparked their collaboration.Their work dynamic evolved as they discovered not only their professional compatibility but also a personal connection. This dual relationship blossomed into marriage, and after a year of living apart, they decided to venture into consulting. The transition from employees to business owners was facilitated by their solid professional background and the initial success in acquiring clients. This success was a result of their extensive network and the burgeoning field of marketing and sales operations, which at the time, was not as recognized as it is today.Their business, initially named CSU Marketing, evolved to focus on revenue operations, reflecting their diverse expertise beyond just marketing ops. They attribute their successful business partnership to aligning on business goals, leveraging each other's strengths, and maintaining constant communication. Daily meetings help them stay connected and address priorities, a luxury not all business leaders share.However, blending personal and professional life has its challenges. Discussions about the business often spill into their personal time, but they view this as a constructive process. Differences in opinion are not seen as conflicts but as opportunities for 'storming' – a phase in the McKinsey framework – leading to innovative solutions. This approach underscores their ability to balance their roles as business partners and life partners.Key takeaway: Crissy and Charlie's experience highlights the importance of communication, alignment of goals, and leveraging individual strengths in a business partnership. Their journey from colleagues to spouses and business partners demonstrates that professional and personal relationships can coexist and thrive, provided there's a clear understanding of roles, constant communication, and a positive approach to resolving differences.Elevating from Tactical Manager to Strategic Leader in MartechCrissy sheds light on a crucial challenge in the martech sector: the transition from a tactical, technology-focused manager to a strategic, business-minded director. In her view, the key to success in operations roles lies in balancing tactical knowledge with evolving strategic approaches. Understanding the operational landscape and keeping abreast of technological possibilities are vital for leaders in this field.She emphasizes the importance of building a solid operational foundation rather than being mired in constant 'firefighting' mode. This foundation is crucial for moving beyond immediate tactical challenges and focusing on long-term strategic goals. Crissy advises against solely aiming for a position where one only manages people and devises strategies. A true leader in martech needs to grasp the practical aspects of the technology they oversee, even if not involved in the hands-on work.Her tips for professionals aspiring to advance include aligning with business goals and key metrics, particularly those of the revenue team. She advises creating a flexible roadmap that accommodates unforeseen challenges while ensuring that the team remains focused on impactful, long-term projects. Moreover, she underscores the importance of data analysis and insights in driving operational efficiency and informing higher-level decisions.Key takeaway: To progress from a tactical role to a strategic leadership position in martech, professionals need to balance their technical knowledge with an understanding of evolving business strategies. Building a solid operational foundation, aligning with key business goals, and emphasizing data analysis are essential steps. Success in this transition requires not just managing teams but also possessing a deep understanding of the technology and strategies that drive the business forward.The Challenges of Unbundling Marketing Automation PlatformsCrissy delves into the complexities of unbundling marketing automation platforms in the current martech environment. She identifies several issues that make this process challenging, particularly for established operations. The primary concerns include understaffing, high turnover, and the necessity for comprehensive training on these tools.Marketing automation platforms offer a wide range of functionalities, which can be both a blessing and a curse. While they provide a one-stop solution for various needs, Crissy points out that many features often go unused, leading to questions about cost-effectiveness. However, the real worry lies in the management and upkeep of these systems. The existing tech debt in marketing automation and CRM platforms complicates the situation further.Crissy suggests that while the idea of a more flexible, composable solution is appealing, especially for small and medium businesses (SMBs) focusing on profitability and investment appeal, the historical and operational challenges in B2B settings make it a difficult transition. She also highlights the potential benefits of having a single tool to master, simplifying contract management and expertise development within teams.The future of marketing automation, according to Crissy, lies not in the immediate unbundling of these platforms but in the advancements and specialization of these tools. She emphasizes the need for marketing ops professionals to choose platforms based on their specific use case...