Ethical Schools

We speak with Elana Sigall and Joe Kolman, creators of "Unorthodox Education," a documentary exposé of NYC's ultra-Orthodox yeshivas. Each year, thousands of students graduate from these schools with little to no secular education.  They are unprepared for college, careers, or life outside their insular communities. Because of their communities' extraordinary political power, elected officials are complicit in failing the students. The film tells the stories of schools, students, the fight to hold the schools accountable, and the obstacles to be overcome. Overview 00:00-00:47 Intros 00:47-06:21 Initial involvement in “Unorthodox Education” 06:21-09:21 Core subjects missing from yeshivas’ curriculum 09:21-09:59 Number of yeshivas in New York State 09:59-11:54 Differences in girls’ and boys’ education 11:54-14:50 Yeshivas’ justification for not providing secular education 14:50-15:37 Strategy for making sure students remain in the community? 15:37-18:59 How the refusal to provide secular education is maintained 18:59-22:17 Reasons for increased refusal over time to offer secular education 22:17-25:09 Experiences and struggles of students who want a secular education and those who leave the community 25:09-25:55 Ages at which people leave the community 25:55-26:46 Role of New York State Education Department 26:46-28:51 Politicians’ actions and justifications 28:51-30:48 Fears of accusations of antisemitism 30:48-33:17 Obstacles in funding and distribution of the film 33:17-35:44 Current state of things 35:44-37:44 What listeners can doResources Learn more about the documentary, its filmmakers, and upcoming screenings on the official Unorthodox Education website. The filmmakers also discuss the work of Yaffed, an organization advocating for the right of children in Hasidic and Haredi schools to receive an adequate secular education. Transcript[00:00:15] Jon M: I'm Jon Moscow.  [00:00:17] Amy H-L: And I'm Amy Halpern-Laff. Our guests today are Elana Sigall and Joe Kolman, the producer and director, respectively, of Unorthodox Education, a documentary film about the fight to ensure that students in ultra-Orthodox yeshivas in New York City receive a basic secular education, and the current state of the battle. Welcome, Elana and Joe.  [00:00:40] Joe K: Thank you. [00:00:41] Elana S: Thank you very much. Thanks for having us. [00:00:44] Jon M: How did each of you become involved with this film? [00:00:47] Joe K: Well, I guess I should start because I was ... It started with me. I learned that a lot of Jewish kids were not getting the secular education they needed in these ultra-Orthodox schools, and I was kind of shocked by that because my mother had gone to a yeshiva in Tel Aviv when she was growing up and got a religious education, but also got a really good secular education, and later went on to law school. The idea that there was some conflict between religious practice and secular education seemed crazy to me, and was the rationale for denying these kids in New York City and upstate New York this basic education. So I was furious, and I started learning more and more about it. And as a journalist, I got involved and decided to do a documentary. That was 2020. Originally, I thought we'd do a short video where we would interview a few people and explain the situation, and I did that. Right before COVID began, we finished this eight-minute documentary, and people said they didn't understand what I had done because they couldn't understand why people would deprive their own kids of an education...

We welcome back Dr. Kym Vanderbilt of Lehman College, this time joined by her former students, Kelsey Nova and Cyndhia Silvero. We discuss how Dr. Vanderbilt’s graduate students create case studies based on ethical challenges they themselves have faced. Ms. Nova and Ms. Silvero share their own case studies. We also discuss the ongoing struggle for fair compensation for early childhood educators, especially assistant teachers and education directors. Overview00:15-00:40 Intros 00:40-02:26 Objectives in assigning scenarios of ethically complex situations 02:26-05:06 Kelsey’s ethical dilemma scenario 05:06-06:14 Potential solutions 06:14-08:13 Cyndhia’s ethical dilemma scenario 08:13-09:14 Improving children’s experiences at more elite schools 09:14-10:37 Making schools more sensitive to cultural diversity 10:37-14:51 Does the State encourage teacher ed classes that discuss ethical issues 14:51-15:25 Penalty Kick video promo 15:25-17:00 Codes of ethics 17:00-23:28 Issues to resolve for high quality early childhood programs 23:28-26:55 Special ed issues 26:55-28:58 Why do these issues exist? 28:58-32:52 Denials/evaluations 32:52-39:50 Issues for early childhood staff as employees:              Autonomy vs compliance, staff pay and disparities 39:50-42:38 “Making this a career that people can stay in.” 42:38-43:50 Outro  TranscriptClick here to see the full transcription of this episode. Soundtrack by Poddington Bear

Jon talks with Dr. Beverly Falk of the High Quality Learning Project, Lauren Monaco, New York City pre-K teacher, and experienced educators Gil Schmerler and Renee Dinnerstein. They discuss the centrality of play to children’s development as confirmed by recent research on how the brain works. A “play-in” in Manhattan calls for greater emphasis on play in early childhood classes. Overview00:15-01:17 Intros01:17-02:53 Play’s defining features02:53-03:22 Defining early childhood03:22-08:46 How children learn and develop08:46-11:46 How central has play been historically to early childhood education11:46-24:15 Conflict between free play and academics in the early childhood education field24:15-28:36 Current status of play in early childhood education in NYS and NYC28:36-29:10 Penalty Kick video promo29:10-31:36 Patterns in community-based centers and schools31:36-36:06 What should NYS and NYC do to reinstitute proper levels of play?36:06-39:41 NYCplays.org: Organizing: How listeners can get involved, 9/26 Play-in39:41-41:08 Importance of public/education officials speaking up41:08-42:07 Play and explicit literacy instruction should be paired42:07-44:37 Parents getting mixed messages44:37-45:47 You can’t rush neurological development45:47- OutroTranscript Click here to see the full transcription of this episode. References Protectors of Play (POP) website: nycplays.org Join NYC Plays’ free, all-ages Play-In with games, activities, and advocacy for play in schools: September 26, 12–2 pm, at Manny Cantor Center (197 East Broadway, 6th floor, NYC). Register here! The High Quality Early Learning Project (Podcast) February 20, 2026: NYC Kindergarteners are Being Diagnosed with Play Deprivation & We Can Change It (Podcast) February 27, 2026: The Proposal to Fix Kindergarten that NYC's Mayor Needs to Hear Renee Dinnerstein's book "Choice Time: How to Deepen Learning Through Inquiry and Play" Soundtrack by Poddington Bear

We share brief presentations from the fifth “Global Saturday Salons” that Ethical Schools is sponsoring with three international partners. Nando Rodriguez is the Senior Manager for Environmental Programming at the Brotherhood/Sister Sol (BroSis) in Harlem, NYC. Camila Salcedo, 16, is a sophomore at Thurgood Marshall Academy, and Elias DeLeon, 17, is a junior at KIPP Charter School. Both have been members of the BroSis community for several years. Together, they explore what happens when young people are trusted with real responsibility, meaningful relationships, and hands-on experiences in nature. This salon series, Learning to Citizen: Tales of Youth Voice, Agency, and Care, honors learners and educators who are already practicing care, enacting citizenship, and learning how to regenerate their communities and their world. Discover more at edfortheworldwewant.net. TranscriptionClick here to see the full description of this episode. References To view Nando's slides presented during the Salon, [access the presentation here]. Want the full conversation?  Watch the complete Salon, including the plenary session, on YouTube. Soundtrack by Poddington Bear. 

Jon speaks with Dr. David Penberg, who ran the Liberty  Partnership Program at Bank Street College in the 1990s, and two of the participants, Madelyn Baez, and Tara Crichlow. Three decades later, Madelyn, Tara, and David explain how the program changed the trajectory of their lives. The Liberty Partnership was created as a college prep intervention for underserved and marginalized middle school students.   For the participants, it was a safe place of "uncomfortable empowerment" where their opinions were taken seriously in a simultaneously supportive and challenging environment. Overview00:00-00:45 Intro 00:45-01:56 Liberty Partnership Program (LPP) origin and description 01:56-03:36 What LPP felt like to Madelyn and Tara 03:36-07:03 LPP structure and goals 07:03-09:40 How Madelyn and Tara joined 09:40-14:42 How experiences in the program were different from school 14:42-19:10 Environmental conversations 19:10-19:24 Trip to China 19:24-20:49 Asset-based program; not about “fixing” the young people 20:49-23:03 Opportunities and relationships 23:03-26:04 “Uncomfortable empowerment” 26:04-26:50 Options, opportunities, exposure, experience 26:50-30:37 Bank Street as a place of safety and empowerment during time of demonization  of young people of color after Central Park jogger case 30:37-35:03 Impact on students’ relationships with families and friends 35:03-37:02 Impact on David’s life 37:02-37:52 Remembering youths who died 37:52-40:51 The larger Bank Street environment 40:51-42:15 The “pure love” of the LPP community 42:15- OutroTranscriptClick here to see the full transcription of this episode. Soundtrack by Poddington Bear

We share brief presentations from the fourth "Global Saturday Salons” that Ethical Schools is sponsoring with three international partners. Dr. Benjamin Freud is the Strategic Lead for Regenerative Education at the Green School Bali, Manon Tiange is a Grade 12 student mapping labor invisibility and systemic inequality in Bali, and Scarlett Gonella is a Grade 12 student investigating plastic pollution and advocating for clean water access in Indonesia. They talked about an educational culture rooted in contribution to community. Learners are trusted to ask difficult questions, collaborate across generations, and imagine reform at the highest levels. This salon series is called Learning to Citizen: Tales of Youth Voices, Agency, and Care. Our goal is to honor learners and teachers who are already doing the work practicing care, enacting citizenship, and learning how to regenerate their worlds. Discover more and join us on May 30th to learn with members of The Brotherhood Sister Sol: edfortheworldwewant.net  

Dr. Chantal Francois and Dr. Jen McLaughlin Cahill, co-authors of Identity-Affirming Literacies in Schools, discuss their time at the school they call Pearl Street Collaborative, a progressive secondary school on Manhattan’s Lower East Side that prioritizes teacher inquiry and collaboration. Schedules include time for teachers to meet frequently with grade and content colleagues. Drawing on the work of Freire and Lilia Bartolomé, Drs. Francois and McLaughlin Cahill used literature to support students' identities, including by integrating an LGBTQ+ focus into English classes.   Overview00:00-00:52 Intros 00:52-03:36 Humanizing pedagogy 03:36-04:44 Relationships and humanizing pedagogy 04:44-07:35 Scheduling facilitating creation and maintenance of faculty relationships 07:35-10:04 Collaboration as modeling for students 10:04-10:21 Pearl Street Collaborative 10:21-13:24 Literacy as more than reading 13:24-18:53 Reading and teaching as political 18:53-23:17 Mission statement as a meaningful document 23:17-31:23 Structuring literacy instruction around independent reading and reading whole books 31:23-36:44 LGBTQ+ identify-affirming literacies 36:44-40:34 Impact on students of LGBTQ+ focus 40:34- OutroReferences Book Identity-Affirming Literacies in Schools by Dr. Chantal Francois and Dr. Jen McLaughlin Cahill: buy it on Routledge or find it on Amazon Article by  Dr. Lilia Bartolomé "Beyond the methods fetish: Toward a humanizing pedagogy" TranscriptClick here to see the full transcription of this episode. Soundtrack by Podington Bear

We welcome back Dr. Anthony Johnston to speak about his new book, "Introduction to Secondary Teaching: Blending Wisdom, Research, and Social Justice.” Dr. Johnston explores teacher wisdom of practice, social justice pedagogy, evidence-based practices, and adolescent brain research. He identifies the foundation of all classroom teaching as teacher identity, teacher presence, teacher passion, and teacher stance.

We share brief presentations from the third of the “Saturday Salons” that Ethical Schools is sponsoring with three international partners. Kerry Kirk Pflugh is the executive director of the New Jersey School of Conservation. She also comes with extensive background experience at the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection. Tom Roderick is the author most recently of Teach for Climate Justice: A Vision for Transforming Education. He was also the Founding Executive Director of Morningside Center for Teaching Social Responsibility. Deb L. Morrison is a Learning Designer and Advisor at the University of Washington and a Lead Author on the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change Assessment Report 7. They talk about how educators can respond to the urgent environmental crises we face. Learn more and join at globalconversations.net

We welcome back Dr. Ujju Aggarwal, assistant professor at The New School, to speak about her book, Unsettling Choice: Race, Rights, and the Partitioning of Public Education. In Unsettling Choice, Dr. Aggarwal focuses on the intersection of public education and gentrification. The book is based on her work with mothers at a Head Start center in NYC. We discuss the race and class discrimination the parents faced and whether exclusion is inherent in school choice programs. Overview 00:00-00:56 Intros 00:56-07:13 Working with Head Start mothers in Manhattan’s Community School District 3 07:13-09:15 Connection between school choice and austerity 09:15-19:17 Issues mothers faced in choosing schools for their children and their experiences 19:17-24:06 The “post-Brown realignment” following the Brown v Board of Education Supreme Court decisions 24:06-25:30 Parents as “consumers” rather than as “citizens” 25:30-28:01 Can school choice exist without exclusion 28:01-29:03 NYC Schools Chancellor Samuels and citywide integration 29:03-32:21 Radical municipalism 32:21- OutroTranscriptClick here to listen to see the full transcript of this episode. References Book "Unsettling Choice: Race, Rights, and the Partitioning of Public Education" by Dr. Ujju Aggarwal Listen to our first interview "Ujju Aggarwal on school choice, whiteness as property, and the “right to exclude” published in 2019 Soundtrack by Poddington Bear