Empathy at the Table: Real Conversations with People who Negotiate Every Day

Is being a good communicator enough to make you a good negotiator? Tony Shepherd, a lawyer by background with over 40 years in negotiation, returns to Empathy at the Table for a second conversation with Tony Anagor about the red flags in today's negotiation advice. They agree on a lot, and where they don't, they say so.Tony Shepherd puts the balance at "20% communication, 80% substantive", meaning you have to know things. Tony Anagor pushes back with his own story of learning to communicate, and with the leaders he works with whose ideas get lost between them and their teams.In this episode:• Where communication skills end and negotiation begins• Positional power, and when a manager doesn't need to negotiate• What happens to collaborative ideas once the terms need agreeing• The different lanes of negotiation, and why expertise doesn't always travel• What makes a great negotiator• Why the other side doesn't have to like your terms• Conflict aversion and risk aversion• Blind spots after 40 years at the tableChapters:00:00 Welcome back Tony Shepherd02:22 From lawyer to negotiator04:13 From fighting to communicating08:06 Where communication ends and negotiation begins09:49 Positional power at work14:21 What Getting to Yes leaves out19:03 Does the relationship decide the deal?22:40 Personal and business relationships24:32 The lanes of negotiation26:31 Consensual and enforced negotiation32:50 20% communication, 80% substance36:29 Why how you present it still matters39:32 Australia, AI and copyright41:20 Great communicators and great negotiators43:17 What makes a great negotiator47:54 They don't have to like your terms51:39 Conflict aversion and risk aversion52:24 Blind spots after 40 years56:56 When the other side doesn't tell the truth58:54 A message to the negotiation gurus1:00:08 Negotiation, mediation and conflict resolution1:04:43 Closing thoughtsEmpathy at the Table, Episode 76. The negotiation podcast hosted by Tony Anagor.Our first conversation with Tony Shepherd: https://youtu.be/0F4LG9LueHwTraining and workshops: https://institute-ln.com

How do trust, respect and conflict change when you move between cultures? Ife Dare-Johnson, founder and CEO of Healthtracka and MIT Sloan Fellow, has lived and worked in Nigeria, the UK and the US. She talks with Tony Anagor about what each culture taught her about negotiating, leading and saying what you really mean.Ife started Healthtracka in 2021 after losing her father to an illness that could have been treated if it had been caught early. She shares how she tested the idea, why being an outsider in healthcare made her ask for help, and how she thinks about leadership in phases.In this episode:- Why Ife started Healthtracka, and how she checked people would pay for it- Being an outsider in healthcare, and finding the right people- Why Nigeria's entrepreneurial story is much older than its tech scene- How introductions and trust shape deals in Nigeria- Respecting people older than you when you are the boss- Why "interesting" and "not very happy" can hide real problems- Leading in phases, and the question "when is it enough?"- MIT, faith, and the year she thought she would not surviveEmpathy at the Table, Episode 75. The negotiation podcast hosted by Tony Anagor.Training and workshops: https://institute-ln.com

Sheila Heen teaches negotiation at Harvard Law School and is co-author of the bestselling book Difficult Conversations. In this episode, she joins Tony Anagor to explain why the feelings we don't talk about never actually disappear, they just come out sideways, through sarcasm, withdrawal or passive aggression.You'll learn:Why every difficult conversation is really two problems, not oneThe three conversations happening in your head before you even speak: facts, feelings and identityWhy fault is the wrong question, and what joint contribution means insteadWhy saying no is hard, and it has nothing to do with the word itselfSheila Heen co-founded Triad Consulting Group and co-authored Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What Matters Most with Douglas Stone and Bruce Patton.Find Sheila: triadconsultinggroup.com0:00 Welcome: introducing Sheila Heen1:10 From Nebraska to Harvard: how Sheila found negotiation3:20 The childhood goal that shaped her career6:54 Redefining negotiation beyond the boardroom9:45 Ignored feelings come out sideways12:00 The two problems hiding in every difficult conversation13:36 Why not having the conversation wastes more time14:31 The three conversations: facts, feelings, identity19:18 The trouble with the word fault21:17 Shifting from blame to joint contribution23:50 Why saying no is so hard27:02 How neuroscience changed negotiation in 20 years31:02 Why she wrote Difficult Conversations34:38 What Getting to Yes was missing35:26 Deciding which difficult conversations are worth having39:06 Being right vs solving the problem44:34 What Sheila is working on now48:19 Closing thoughts

Why do founders struggle to lead as their companies grow? Jason Gore, leadership coach and negotiation expert, joins Tony Anagor to explore founder psychology, delegation, emotional intelligence, negotiation, and the leadership behaviours that shape growing teams.From the pressure of scaling a company to high-stakes negotiation, Jason explains why founders have to learn to let go, how childhood experiences can influence leadership, and why practising in low-stakes conversations can change how we perform when the stakes are high.They also explore Jason’s Saturn Leadership Index, a framework built around 51 observable leadership behaviours, and what it really takes to build alignment without losing connection. resourcesJason Gore's Website Saturn Leadership Index AssessmentLinkedInTwitter

Fotini Iconomopoulos, bestselling author of Say Less and ranked #15 in the world's Global Gurus negotiation list, joins us for a conversation about the discipline of restraint.In this episode, Fotini breaks down why the most powerful move in a negotiation is often silence, not more words. She shares the real story of confronting a manager over a pay gap, why she calls negotiation ‘a synonym for self advocacy,’ and the mental ‘pause button’ that stops her reacting in the heat of the moment.You'll learn:• Why saying less builds more credibility than filling silence• How to use someone's own words to hold them accountable• The ‘cookie’ trap: why buying likeability always backfires• Why self awareness, not tactics, is the real foundation of negotiationFotini grew up in a Greek immigrant household, was recently diagnosed with ADHD, and turned both into an edge at the negotiation table. This is a masterclass in staying composed under pressure.Find Fotini: @FotiniIcon on Instagram and LinkedIn, fotiniicon.comHer book: ‘Say Less: Get More with Unconventional Negotiation Techniques’🎧 Empathy at the Table is hosted by Tony Anagor, founder of the Institute of Leadership and Negotiation (ILN).#Negotiation #EmotionalIntelligence #Leadership #EmpathyAtTheTable #FotiniIconomopoulos

Why do most of us keep making the same negotiation mistakes, even though we negotiate every day? In this episode, Tony Anagor sits down with negotiation expert Josh Weiss to unpack the three real purposes of negotiation, why storytelling might be the most underused tool in conflict resolution, and how emotional intelligence is what actually gets people to the table.Josh also introduces his Negotiation Stories project, a growing community built to collect and share real negotiation experiences from people at every level, not just the boardroom.This is our season finale before a short summer break — we'll be back in September with new episodes and guests. Thank you for listening this season. 🙏Resources:🔗 Negotiation Stories — negotiationstories.net📖 Getting to Yes, by Roger Fisher & William Ury🔗 Harvard Negotiation Project — pon.harvard.eduConnect with Josh Weiss on LinkedIn.

Most conversations fail because of human psychology.In this episode of Empathy at The Table , Tony speaks with negotiation expert, mediator, and endurance athlete Danny Bobrow about what actually drives communication breakdowns—and how to fix them.Danny introduces the “Persuasion Blueprint”, a framework built on three core stages: caring, connection, and collaboration. But what emerges in this conversation goes far beyond theory.They explore how persuasion begins internally, why emotional regulation is essential in high-stakes communication, and how most people unknowingly trigger resistance in others before a conversation even begins.Danny shares insights from decades of experience as a mediator, arbitrator, coach, and ultra-endurance athlete, revealing how resilience, patience, and self-awareness shape not only performance—but relationships.Key topics include:Why most communication failures are emotional, not logicalThe “care gap” between intention and perceptionHow to identify and regulate your own limbic responsesWhy labeling emotions increases clarity and reduces conflictThe difference between persuasion, manipulation, and influenceHow modern communication (text/email) increases misunderstandingsWhy real persuasion is about removing resistance, not forcing agreementThis conversation challenges the idea that negotiation is about winning. Instead, it reframes it as a process of understanding, alignment, and human connection.Whether you work in business, leadership, sales, or personal relationships, this episode will change how you think about communication.Full episode now available.#EmpathyAtTheTable#CommunicationSkills#Negotiation#EmotionalIntelligence#PersuasionMusic licensed through Soundstripe.Code: 3NKVDX1T0EUZGQPY

In this episode of  Empathy at The Table  , we speak with Thomas Erikson, author of the global bestseller Surrounded by Idiots, a book that has sold nearly 10 million copies and been translated into over 70 languages.The conversation explores the foundations of human behavior, self-awareness, and communication through the lens of Erikson’s well-known behavioral model (red, yellow, green, blue). Rather than labeling personality types, the discussion focuses on observable behaviors and how misunderstanding them creates unnecessary friction in business, leadership, relationships, and everyday life.Thomas shares his personal journey from a struggling young manager to becoming one of the world’s most recognized voices in behavioral communication. He explains how self-awareness is not only about understanding yourself, but also how others perceive you , and why this gap is often the root of conflict.Thomas also challenges the idea that people can simply be “put in boxes,” arguing instead that behavioral models are tools to understand patterns and tendencies, not fixed identities.Website: https://www.surroundedbyidiots.com/en/#EmpathyAtTheTable #ThomasErikson #SelfAwareness #CommunicationSkills #Leadership

Divorce is rarely just "ending a relationship"... it’s how people negotiate when emotions, history and financial stakes collide.In this episode of Empathy at the Table, Tony Anagor speaks with divorce mediator Joe Dillon, co-founder of Equitable Mediation Services, who has helped over 1,000 couples navigate one of the most emotionally charged negotiations of their lives.Joe brings a unique blend of finance, negotiation, and mediation experience, and explains why empathy is not a soft skill — but a strategic advantage in high-conflict conversations.We explore:Why most divorces are failures of communication, not loveHow emotional intelligence shapes negotiation outcomesWhy one partner often “sees it coming” years earlierThe difference between constructive conflict and destructive conflictWhy traditional legal divorce systems often escalate conflictHow mediators help people move from positions to interestsThis conversation reframes divorce, marriage, and conflict itself , showing how negotiation is not only a business skill, but a life skill.This episode explores negotiation, divorce mediation, conflict resolution, emotional intelligence in communication, and high-conflict decision making. It covers negotiation strategies, communication breakdowns, interest-based negotiation, and the psychology of relationships and conflict resolution.

You're Not Bad at Negotiation , You're Playing a Biased Game Lucy Watson spent over 25 years in high-stakes environments across tech, finance, and consulting, before realising a deeper pattern shaping outcomes in negotiation: gender dynamics and unconscious bias.In this episode, she breaks down why many women underperform in negotiations not due to lack of skill, but because of structural and cultural factors that shape behaviour long before the conversation starts.We explore:Why negotiation is often misread as confrontationThe “likability gap” and its impact on asking and self-advocacyWhy many everyday situations are actually negotiable (but not recognised as such)How stereotypes influence reactions to assertivenessThe difference between being confident, warm, and effectivePractical ways to reframe negotiation to create better outcomesLucy also explains how small, everyday negotiations shape long-term career outcomes far more than big salary discussions, and why awareness is the first lever for change.Lucy's website: https://empathyatthetable.negotiationwhisperer.co/#Negotiation #Leadership #GenderBias #EmpathyAtTheTable #Communication #Influence #CareerGrowth #Workplace #SalaryNegotiation #LucyWatson