Business of Apps Podcast

This time we're digging into one of the biggest calls a product team can make - whether to fix an app, rebuild it, or start over - and how AI is changing the answer. When a product stalls, teams usually arrive with a solution already in mind: a redesign, a rebuild, a new feature. But the initial ask rarely tells the whole story, and with AI cutting the cost of writing code, the math behind a rebuild has shifted. To cover all this, we've got David Barlev, CEO and co-founder of Goji Labs, talking to tech journalist David Murphy about how to choose the right path for a product and where AI fits into the work. David explains how Goji keeps asking "why" until it reaches the root cause, why the team isn't precious about whether the answer is a fix or a rebuild, and what 18 months of becoming AI-native has changed. He also warns that a wave of haphazardly written software could bring significant data breaches within the next year. If you build, run, or modernize apps and software products, this is a clear look at how to make the fix-or-rebuild decision when code is cheap and judgment isn't. Today's topics include: What counts as a product - customer-facing apps, SaaS tools, and internal business software Where to start when a client asks for a fix - asking "why" until you reach the root cause, not the symptom Do clients know what's holding them back - why most arrive with a solution already in mind Fix or rebuild - how cheaper, faster AI-assisted coding changes the case for doing more than the minimum AI in two lanes - what it adds to client products, and how it transforms the way the work gets done Where the value moves when code gets cheap - strategy, judgment and design upstream; scalability, performance and governance downstream The coming security risks - mediocre software flooding the market, and using AI at scale without adding risk Links and Resources: David Barlev on LinkedIn Goji Labs website Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from David Barlev: "The initial ask that our customers come to us with is rarely the actual thing that we end up doing." "As writing code becomes inexpensive, the value moves upstream towards strategy, judgment, taste and quality of design, and downstream towards scalability, performance and governance." "A lot of really mediocre software products are going to basically flood the market." Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

Bigger creators don’t reliably beat smaller ones. A YouTube video from 2023 is still bringing in subscribers. And a simple “don’t forget my code” post a week after the first one turned out to be a game changer. Many brands still treat influencer marketing as a brand play. The teams on this panel run it as a performance channel, with tracking links, discount codes, and conversion targets, while knowing that the content that convinces someone to buy often isn’t the content that gets the last click. This episode was recorded at Business of Apps NYC, with a panel of influencer marketing leaders: Lucia Aguilar, Co-Founder & CEO of Tatam Digital Mckenna Velasco, Senior Growth Marketing Associate at Babbel Malika Aimasheva, Influencer Marketing Manager at Vinted Jade Farhat, Senior Lead, Influencer & Podcast Partnerships at HelloFresh The panel works through three real campaigns. Malika explains how Vinted won Germany with creators who actually use the app, and why reach tells you almost nothing about who will perform. Mckenna shares how Babbel took a seven-year program from the Americas to Italy, Germany, and France. She budgets by the job each market does rather than its size, and explains why long-form YouTube suits a decision as slow as learning a language. Jade shows why French-speaking creators from Quebec top HelloFresh Canada’s results, and how codes and reminder posts made the channel measurable. Along the way, they cover creator ads vs. brand ads, AI-generated creators, social media as a search engine, and what breaks first when you scale. If you work in influencer marketing, user acquisition, or performance marketing, this is a practical look at how to pick, brief, boost, and measure creators so the channel earns its budget. The panel’s topics include: Performance influencer marketing - why creator performance is unpredictable, why micro creators often outperform bigger profiles, and why you need to invest in tracking and diversify talent and niches Flexible briefs - a short list of non-negotiables (tracking link, ad disclosure, CTA), best-performing creatives shared as inspiration rather than a script, and more creator freedom on organic posts than on paid ads Budgeting across markets and platforms - balancing growth and efficiency with a tiered market system, TikTok for testing hooks, Instagram stories for conversion, and YouTube for evergreen, long-form proof Picking the right creators - local credibility, checking comments and Instagram community channels instead of third-party engagement numbers, and lookalike searches based on creators who already convert Creator ads and boosting - creator ads beating brand ads with 4x higher CTR and 2x better cost per click, negotiating boosting rights upfront, and never boosting as a rescue mission for content that didn’t work organically AI search and buying intent - YouTube as the top source for AI search visibility, where the number of creator mentions matters more than reach, plus saves and shares as a stronger signal of buying intent than likes Measurement and scale - why last click isn’t the villain but relying on a single number is, using market research and incrementality tests alongside conversions, and why operations and creator relationships break first when you scale

Campaigns that used to take a week now ship in 30 minutes. A broken trigger nobody spotted for five days cut marketplace revenue by 11%. And a bank’s login screen now sells microwaves, and lifted conversion by 26%. Plenty of people talk about AI in app marketing. Far fewer open up the actual workflow and show how it was built, what it connects to, and where a human still signs off. In this panel, four growth leaders each walk through one real AI system they run today, then take questions from the audience. This episode was recorded at Business of Apps NYC, with a panel of growth executives: David Brown-Landron, CEO of Grohaus Jenna Klebanoff, VP Marketing & Product Management at Realtor.com= Alexander Guerra, VP, Head of Platform Strategy at Banco Azteca Tyler Chandler, Head of Growth at WeWard Kevin Agresto, Director of Lifecycle Marketing at CollX Tyler shows the UA operating system WeWard built with Claude Code for 28 countries and eight or nine channels: deterministic rules, around 1,000 GitHub Actions, and bid, budget, and creative recommendations that land in Slack for a human to approve. Jenna explains how Realtor.com uses Claude-built build and QA agents to manage a CRM program of around a billion emails a month. Her longest-standing user is now at three times the output, while everyone in the company coding creates a new bottleneck at review. Kevin walks through the weekly alert bot CollX built with Claude and n8n to catch automations whose send volume suddenly drops. And Alexander shares how Banco Azteca added a retail marketplace to a banking app with 300 million monthly sessions, using a Vertex AI “brain” to personalize login screens, with legal and content teams checking every output for hallucinations. If you work in user acquisition, CRM, or lifecycle marketing, this is a practical look at how AI workflows actually get built, what they deliver, and where the guardrails go. The panel’s topics include: AI as a UA operating system - automating the repetitive, rules-based work of a media buyer, from data aggregation and payback projections to bulk creative uploads with no naming errors, while the model never decides on its own How to build it - a detailed product spec with clear scope and boundaries, research into which platforms have an MCP or API, and plenty of back-and-forth with Claude to get to an MVP AI agents for CRM - build and QA agents that take a ticket from Airtable to working code, simple campaigns shipped in 30 minutes instead of one to four weeks, and the hidden cost of extra peer review Monitoring broken automations - a Monday Slack alert that flags any campaign with a 25%+ week-over-week drop in sends, and the SDK update that broke key triggers and pulled GMV down 11% until it was fixed Personalization at scale - AI-generated login screens based on cart and browsing data, rolled out from 1% to 15% of users through A/B testing, with conversion up 26%, about 42% retention increased, and NPS holding steady Data readiness, guardrails, and culture - structuring your data before you connect it, keeping humans in the loop, getting finance and accounting teams on board, and feeding company policies and culture into the model, not just marketing guidelines

Six statements about app growth, a room full of marketers voting live on their phones, and a panel that doesn’t always side with the room. The audience agreed with almost everything: that AI is creating sameness, that growth is now a product problem, that retention beats acquisition. Only one statement got flipped. Hearing why the panelists push back, hedge, or go all in is where it gets interesting. This episode was recorded at Business of Apps NYC, with a panel hosted by Nicole Weiss, Founder of Brass Finch/Mintgrove, featuring: Kate Palmer, Senior Director of Growth and Lifecycle Marketing at TouchTunes Christopher Bagtas, Senior Manager, App Marketing at The Economist Vincent Eterlet, VP Marketing at Fubo Alisha Kabir, Senior Growth Strategy Manager at Audiomack The panel splits on AI creative, with one side saying viewers can spot an AI-made ad straight away, and the other saying ads all looked the same long before AI arrived. They explain why brand has caught up with performance now that installs come from repeated exposure across TikTok, Meta, YouTube, and CTV rather than a single ad. Kate draws a clear line between product and marketing problems: if the right users are churning, it’s product; if you’re bringing in the wrong users, it’s marketing. And on channels, the panel weighs a wide mix you can shift budget into against the beta access and guidance that come from deep partnerships with a few platforms. If you work in app marketing, user acquisition, or lifecycle marketing, this is a candid look at which growth strategies deliver measurable results today, and which trends are overhyped. The panel’s topics include: AI in creative - why AI-generated scripts and statics are easy to spot, and where AI helps by making animated ads that would be too expensive or slow to produce in-house Brand vs. performance - performance spend across many platforms adds up to brand building, and in crowded categories users need a story and a mission before they commit Product vs. marketing - signal engineering as shared work between growth and product, and why marketing teams still need access to App Store Connect and Google Play Short-term ROAS vs. long-term growth - early experimentation to find the right optimization events, knowing your unit economics, LTV, and payback periods, and why ad-supported apps behave more like gaming Retention vs. acquisition - ad platforms now optimize for in-app events and revenue rather than installs, but in emerging markets grabbing market share first can still win Fewer channels vs. more - keeping alternate channels ready for when costs rise, starting with Apple Ads plus one channel, and why a mobile team of two to five people can’t manage 20 partner relationships

This time we're digging into connected TV as a performance channel for mobile apps - and how to prove it actually drove an install. TV has always been good at building brands. The hard part is showing it led to a conversion. As a top-of-funnel channel, CTV often loses the attribution credit to whatever touched the user last, and that's where incrementality testing comes in. To cover all this, we've got Connor Kernochan, Head of Apps and Games at Vibe, talking to tech journalist David Murphy at Business of Apps New York about measuring CTV campaigns and running them the right way. Connor explains what counts as connected TV, why it's now a performance play as well as a branding play, and how MMP data shows which strategies are working. He also covers how incrementality works in practice, including geo lift tests and ghost bids. If you work in user acquisition, app marketing, or mobile measurement, this is a clear look at how to measure CTV and fit it into your existing media mix. Today’s topics include: What connected TV is - Hulu, Peacock, HBO Max, Roku, and ESPN on the biggest screen in the house Brand and performance - targeting viewers like any other digital channel and measuring well enough to optimize Measuring a CTV campaign - plugging into AppsFlyer, Adjust, or Singular as the source of truth Why CTV loses attribution credit - many touch-points before a conversion, and CTV sits at the top of the funnel Incrementality in practice - comparing exposed and control groups through geo lift tests and ghost bids Doing CTV the right way - direct publisher relationships, and CTV data alongside your other channels Links and Resources: Connor Kernochan on LinkedIn Vibe.co website Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from Connor Kernochan: The real value is that it is a branding play, but it is also a performance play." "CTV often loses out on attribution credit because of the nature of being a top of funnel channel." "Whatever any of our clients are using as their source of truth for how they look to measure and report on their KPIs is what we plug into." Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

Today's topic is where app marketing budgets should go - and why creative now does the work that audience settings used to do. Ad platforms are increasingly machine learning-led, and the industry is increasingly privacy-led. Put the two together, and the creative you run decides who sees your ad. A couple of hero videos won't cut it anymore. To cover all this, we've got Jonathan Yantz, Managing Partner at M+C Saatchi Performance, talking to tech journalist David Murphy at Business of Apps New York about budget allocation, creative strategy, and retention. Jonathan explains why budget planning starts with a robust testing plan, how to be ready for new channels like ChatGPT ads before they arrive, and what a creative strategy built on a large number of variations looks like. He also covers why retention matters more when every dollar is under scrutiny. If you work in app marketing, performance media, or creative strategy, this is a clear look at how to plan, test, and spend when the algorithm does the targeting. Today’s topics include: Budget allocation - a testing plan thought through in advance, especially going into the end of the fiscal year New channels - having a plan ready and making sure you can measure any extra dollar Creative is the new targeting - how machine learning-led platforms and privacy changes moved the job to creative A robust creative strategy - many variations, with the next batch ready to go From A/B to A-to-Z testing - tying creative back to the overall testing strategy Budget scrutiny and retention - acquiring a user is costly, so keeping them is the easiest way to grow Links and Resources: Jonathan Yantz on LinkedIn M+C Saatchi Performance website Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from Jonathan Yantz: "We always said creative is king. And now we're saying creative is the new targeting, which is absolutely true." "Any extra dollar is going to be the most important one to measure." "Every dollar has to drive something." Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

Performance CTV is the phrase of the year - and today we're looking at what's actually behind it. For years, connected TV did one job: awareness. It was bought on reach and frequency, often upfront at fixed rates, with no way to tie an impression to an outcome. Now measurement has caught up and supply has flooded in, so the same channel can be linked to installs and conversions. To cover all this, we've got Matilda Lindström, Associate Sales Director at Dataseat, talking to tech journalist David Murphy at Business of Apps New York about connecting CTV with mobile user acquisition. Matilda explains what changed to make performance possible on CTV, why so many CTV tests look like failures when they aren't, and how MMP attribution settings can decide a campaign before it starts. She also covers second-screening and where to begin if you've never run CTV for performance. If you work in user acquisition, app marketing, or brand media, this is a clear look at how to run CTV and mobile as one strategy. Today’s topics include: What performance CTV means - still a great brand channel, but now measurable and optimizable in real time Measurement and supply - MMPs support CTV attribution, and free ad-supported streaming has pushed inventory ahead of demand Programmatic buying - bidding into inventory, shifting budgets mid-campaign, and capping frequency across publishers and placements The organizational challenge - CTV sits with brand teams, UA with mobile teams, each with different KPIs Attribution settings - probabilistic IP matching and MMP defaults that can make a working campaign look like it isn't A unified CTV and mobile strategy - second-screening, and a Sunday-night TV ad that pays off with a Monday-morning install Where to start - keep direct brand buys, scale programmatically, and check your MMP's CTV windows and prioritization Links and Resources: Matilda Lindström on LinkedIn Dataseat website Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from Matilda Lidström "I don't think that we should shy away from the fact that it's a great brand channel. That part hasn't changed. What changed is the ability to measure and optimize in real time." "You might look like the performance is not working at all, but it's actually not a performance issue. It's a settings issue." "I think that the most disappointing CTV tests are the ones that were decided by settings that no one looked at." Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

This time, we're talking about the practical impact of AI on app store optimization - and why LLMs aren't about to pull app discovery out of the stores. LLMs are changing how people search the web. But app discovery has stayed inside the App Store and Google Play for 16 years, and the stores are now adding AI layers of their own. To cover all this, we've got Dave Bell, Co-Founder and CEO of Gummicube, about how AI is reshaping ASO on the App Store and Google Play. Dave explains why winning in-store search is what earns an app a place in Apple's and Google's AI recommendation layers, and why reviews, Custom Product Pages, and Android vitals now count as AI signals. He also covers the risk of "AI cannibalization" when competing apps use generic prompts to write their metadata, the store policies and copyright issues around AI-generated content, and why your website, social, and store listing need to tell the same story. If you work in app store optimization, app marketing, or app growth, this is a clear look at what AI actually changes in the stores - and what it doesn't. Today’s topics include: App discovery stays in the stores - web downloads remain in the single digits, and LLMs will take share from web search, not from the App Store Search feeds AI - the organic signals that power in-store search also fuel Siri, Spotlight, personalized collections, and Ask Play New AI ranking signals - ratings and reviews, Custom Product Pages linked to organic terms, and Android vitals all affect how AI positions your app AI cannibalization - generic LLM prompts produce identical listings, lower conversion, and risk store penalties under Apple and Google Play spam policies Content cohesion - aligning your website, social, and structured content with your store listing so LLMs find one consistent story Links and Resources: Dave Bell on LinkedIn Gummicube website Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from Dave Bell “LLMs are absolutely going to eat search.” "AI is great for research, but it's not great for creation." “You don't want to have a web page that communicates one thing, and a store listing that communicates another.” Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

Today we're talking about influencer marketing - and about the point where creator content stops being a brand play and starts being a performance channel. Creator-led ads run four times better on click-through rate than the same brand's own ads. So the question is no longer whether to use influencers. It's how to scale them without losing the ROI. In this episode, we bring you a live panel hosted by Lucia Aguilar, CEO and Founder at TATAM Digital, featuring: Joanna Malecka, Partnership Director at Numan Esma Ebnu, Influencer Marketing at Flo Health Lia Darozhkina, Senior Influencer Marketing Manager at Trade Republic Stephanie Terziyski, Growth Influencer Marketing Manager at HelloFresh. The panel works through four trends. YouTube as the new TV - 13% of all US viewership and more ad revenue than Paramount, Disney, Universal, and Warner combined - and why long-form still converts for products that need explaining. Creator and partnership ads, where content boosted from the creator's own handle beats anything posted from a brand account. Regulation, with only 57% of UK paid posts tagged correctly, and how teams in health, Pharma, and banking build compliance into the brief instead of bolting it on at sign-off. And AI, from sourcing and brief writing through to forecasting campaign results, plus the case for human creators in a feed filling up with avatars. If you work in influencer marketing, user acquisition, or performance marketing, this is a practical look at where creator budgets are going in 2026 and what it takes to scale them profitably. The panel’s topics include: AI in growth teams — which tasks it already replaces, and why humans still own strategy Performance marketing's limits — why trust-driven categories like fintech need brand channels too Web-to-app funnels — near-double conversion rates and skipping the 30% app store tax Channel strategy for 2026 — fewer channels done better vs. always testing new ones Data and targeting vs. creative — where each wins, and the 96% CPA reduction story

In this episode, we're talking about app store visibility - and about the fact that organic and paid aren't two separate budgets. Every channel you run, no matter where it starts, ends up on the same product page. And the platforms are watching what happens there. To cover all this, we've got Stephanie Ino, Client Services Manager at Gummicube, about how ASO and paid search feed each other on the App Store and Google Play. Stephanie explains why ASO is the home base every channel returns to, how Apple Ads and Google Ads send relevance signals back into the organic algorithm, and why the right split between the two depends on budget, app maturity, and how much relevance you've already built. She also covers Custom Product Pages and Custom Store Listings as a way to align paid traffic with the right creative, and why a younger app should build its ASO foundation before pushing paid spend through. If you work in app store optimization, user acquisition, or app growth, this is a clear look at how the paid and organic sides of the store actually connect. Today’s topics include: ASO as home base - metadata and creative work together because almost every channel routes users back to the product page or store listing Paid feeding organic - Apple Ads SERP placements and Google Ads Play Store placements both send relevance signals into the algorithm for the terms you're targeting Striking the balance - there's no blanket answer, it comes down to available budget, app size, and maturity in the storefront Younger apps first build relevance - get the ASO foundation and keyword rankings in place, then push paid traffic through at a lower acquisition cost Custom Product Pages and Custom Store Listings - matching store assets to each paid campaign's strategy so the traffic you buy actually converts Links and Resources: Stephanie Ino on LinkedIn Gummicube website Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from Stephanie Ino “ASO is where everything comes back to, kind of home base. Most of any channel will come back into that product page or that store listing.” "When we're running Apple Ads, particularly for those SERP results, it gives that boost in relevance so that Apple understands that we have better potential to then rank organically for those terms." “If we're working with a younger app in the storefront, we don't have that relevance built out yet within the algorithm. So we really want to focus on our organic and our ASO performance first.” Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012