We Thought It Would Be Easy

Ed Fries joins hosts Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant to show how a teenage arcade hacker became the exec who helped turn Microsoft into a gaming powerhouse. Curiosity first, constraints as fuel, and a ruthless respect for shipping, that hacker ethos still drives how he works & builds things today.Check out Ed's venture fund 1Up Ventures - where he's building a community of the most talented, experienced, and creative independent game developers in the world.https://1upfund.com/Don't forget to check out the IDGA, he world’s largest nonprofit membership organization supporting the people who make games.https://igda.org/Quick reference mentioned by Ed: • Amir Satvat’s “Dear parent” letter: A frank, supportive overview for families weighing game careers, with realistic odds and next steps.https://www.linkedin.com/posts/amirsatvat_dear-parent-of-a-college-high-school-or-activity-7316429901132165125-vFYb/ • Amir Satvat’s “Harsh truth about game degrees”: Data on employability by role, what to study, and practical alternatives.https://www.linkedin.com/posts/amirsatvat_the-harsh-truth-about-game-degrees-too-many-activity-7324100230067453952-YaW2/00:00 Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant welcome Ed Fries07:13 Early Hacker Days17:37 Excel's "Sindogs" Bug25:07 Joining Microsoft's Games Group29:00 Navigating Corporate Politics36:28 Xbox Origins & Brand Battles46:39 Building Game Portfolios59:52 Post-Microsoft & Family Focus01:05:48 Passion vs. Profit in Gaming01:15:22 1Up Ventures & New Bets01:21:23 Advice for Young Creators01:27:52 Regrets & The Fickle Nature of Pitches01:34:57 Closing & What's NextFollow us on Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/wethoughtpodFollow us on X:https://www.x.com/wethoughtpodFollow us on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/company/we-thought-it-would-be-easy

Art Director & visual powerhouse Daniel Dociu joins Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant to torch “style bibles,” praise imperfections, and argue that art should grow like aged cheese - slow, organic, story-first. He recalls sketching Crimson Skies, turning Guild Wars into a “playable painting,” and painting The Expanse covers with zero notes. The trio spar over rapid prototyping, AI’s coming shake-up, and how small, gutsy teams can still out-create lumbering megaprojects.Check out Daniel's INCREDIBLE ArtStation, where you can find many examples of his amazing work:https://www.artstation.com/daniel_dociu00:00 Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant welcome Daniel Dociu05:12 Daniel's Unique & Definitional Style07:27 Style Can't Be Frozen - It Must Be Grown12:31 Style Guides vs Real Creativity17:32 Conducting an Art “Orchestra” of Hundreds23:44 Becoming Distinctive by Accepting Imperfection32:22 Directing Art by Starting Conversations35:09 On Sequels & Sameness40:19 Navigating AI's Role in Creativity40:27 AI, First Chairs, and the Future's Smaller Teams45:56 Concentric Development: Prove Fun Before Polish49:41 Personalization vs. Localization in Gaming54:25 The Destructive Nature of the Approvals in Games01:08:08 Painting The Expanse: A No-Notes Approval StoryFollow us on Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/wethoughtpodFollow us on X:https://www.x.com/wethoughtpodFollow us on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/company/we-thought-it-would-be-easy

Mitch Gitelman: Building MechCommander, Shadowrun, Battletech - And Why Kindness WinsGame-making maestro Mitch Gitelman sits down with Jordan and Jonathan to spill the wild origin story of how “a kid who didn’t know what a pixel was” bluffed his way into Sony - and then built classics like MechCommander, Shadowrun Returns, and BattleTech. From goat-pasture negotiations and Microsoft war stories to why “improvise, adapt, overcome” (and a lot of kindness) still beat crunch and corporate ego, this episode all about creative hustle and staying human in AAA chaos.Check out SLICE - Seattle Loves Indie Creators Expo, is a one-day games industry conference that Mitch is helping out with:https://seattleslice.org/Follow us on Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/wethoughtpodFollow us on X:https://www.x.com/wethoughtpodFollow us on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/company/we-thought-it-would-be-easy

Our guest this week is Kevin Hanna - who started as a scrappy game developer before making an unlikely leap into directing documentaries, including the acclaimed film about Hellboy creator Mike Mignola. He joins Jordan and Jonathan to share candid insights about the creative hustle, turning lunch-table dreams into award-winning reality, and why true creativity means making your own luck, even when the odds are against you.Watch Mike Mignola: Drawing Monsters on Amazon Prime:https://amzn.to/4dfzPhoCheck out Ink On Paper (Kevin's film studio) on YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@inkonpaperstudiosFollow us on Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/wethoughtpodFollow us on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/company/we-thought-it-would-be-easy

In this episode, storied game designer Chris Taylor (Total Annihilation, Supreme Commander) joins Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant for a candid conversation about fearless creativity, costly mistakes, and why groundbreaking games often mean never waiting for permission. From pioneering real-time strategy to surviving the brutal highs and lows of independent studio life, Chris shares his boldest bets - and what it truly takes to deliver on ambitious game-design dreams.Check out Chris' web‑based RTS project Kanoogi:https://www.kanoogi.com/00:00 Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant welcome Chris Taylor03:10 Chris Taylor's Early Career and Hardball08:09 Transitioning to Boxing Games12:18 Taking the Leap: Leaving EA for Total Annihilation15:08 The Rise of Total Annihilation: A New Genre21:00 Balancing Complexity: The Challenge of Game Mechanics29:00 The Role of Trust in Creative Teams34:37 Subtraction in Design: Knowing What to Remove40:25 Creative Freedom and Game Development43:52 From Cave Dog to Gas Powered Games55:13 Work-Life Balance in Game Development01:00:18 The Pain of Innovation01:04:34 Lessons from Mistakes and Expectations Management01:13:50 The Burden of Expectations & Navigating Failure01:19:01 The Evolution of Game Development01:24:11 The Changing Landscape of the Gaming IndustryFollow Chris:https://x.com/DeathBot9Follow us on Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/wethoughtpodFollow us on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/company/we-thought-it-would-be-easy

In this episode, Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant talk with renowned game designer Justin Gary, discussing his journey from winning Magic: The Gathering championships to creating successful games like Ascension and SolForge Fusion. They explore the evolution of game design, the importance of creativity, the challenges of crowdfunding, and the impact of AI on the industry. Justin shares insights on navigating risks, the creative process, and the significance of building a community around game development.Check out the new SolForge Fusion expansion mentioned in this episode, Shadows over Solace:https://gamefound.com/projects/stoneblade/shadows-over-solis?refcode=hrtpe5I8bkOYWNsguSijmA00:00 Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant welcome Justin Gary03:39 Justin's Journey in Game Design06:36 Innovations in Game Mechanics09:26 Working with Legends: Richard Garfield12:31 The Core Design Loop15:30 Common Mistakes in Game Design17:17 Setting Boundaries for Success20:22 The Ego Paradox in Creation24:15 Understanding Fear and Risk28:07 The Innovator's Dilemma34:56 Magic: The Gathering's Impact on Game Design43:09 Finding Joy in Leadership45:57 Trusting Your Team for Success54:02 The Evolution of Crowdfunding in Game DevelopmentFollow Justin:https://x.com/Justin_GaryCheck out Justin's podcast, writings, and book here:https://justingarydesign.substack.com/Follow us on Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/wethoughtpodFollow us on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/company/we-thought-it-would-be-easy