Transforming Discipleship

How did the early church fathers practice discipleship? What can we learn from them and apply to our lives today?In this episode, Oliver Hersey explores those questions with Pete Scazzero, author of Emotionally Healthy Discipleship: Moving from Shallow Christianity to Deep Transformation In addition to studying the early church Scazzero also studied the gospel of Matthew for years to learn how Jesus discipled the twelve apostles. “The disciples wanted to be popular,” he explains. “They didn’t want suffering and failure.” Those temptations and struggles still exist today. But how can Christians reject popularity, and embrace the cross? That’s where Scazzero looks to the riches of church history. To develop into people who are deeply changed by God, he suggested we should slow down, follow the crucified Jesus, make space for grief, and measure spiritual maturity by how we’re loving others. “Discretion was a quality of abbots in monasteries—the ability to let things unfold,” Scazzero notes. Join Scazzero as he lays out a blueprint for how to let your ministry flow out of your own life with Jesus. Learn more about emotionally healthy discipleship on his website. Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can the church come alongside people after the pandemic? In this episode, Oliver Hersey and Kelsey Bowse explore that question with Nicky Gumbel, Vicar at Holy Trinity Brompton (HTB) in London, England.  He’s also the pioneer of Alpha, a program that started in 1977 that helps people explore questions of faith in fifteen sessions. He left his legal career behind, to work in ministry full-time, with his wife Pippa Gumbel.  “This is the greatest evangelistic opportunity of a lifetime,” Nicky said. His church had its largest turn out for Alpha in 2020, with 1,600 people attending online.  He said “There’s going to be a huge amount of poverty, even in places like the UK and the U.S. It’s an opportunity for the church to do what it’s supposed to do, to care for the poor and to preach the gospel.”  The explosive growth of the church came directly after the epidemics of 165 AD, and 251 AD, according to Nicky. This is ultimately what separates Christians, from everyone else, their willingness to run towards people who are suffering. Check out what was referenced on the podcast:  Rodney Stark's book The Rise of Christianity: A Sociologist Reconsiders History Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can you live a life that’s deeply formed in Christ? In this episode, Oliver Hersey explores that question with Rich Villodas, author of “The Deeply Formed Life: Five Transformative Values to Root Us in the Way of Jesus.” He is also the lead pastor of New Life Fellowship, a multi-racial church in Queens, New York. He wrote the book out of pastoral concern, and lays out a vision for spiritual breakthrough in five key values. He covers five areas of ministry that inform his church’s overall mission, preaching and discipleship: • Contemplative Rhythms Value: slowing down our lives to be with God. • Racial Justice Value: examining a multi-layered approach to pursuing racial justice and reconciliation. • Interior Examination Value: looking beneath the surface of our lives to live free and love well. • Sexual Wholeness Value: exploring how our sexuality connects with our spirituality. • Missional Presence Value: living as the presence of Christ in a broken world. He indicated that prayer is about listening to God listen. “Prayer is an exchange of souls, not necessarily an exchange of information or words. It’s a communion of hearts,” Villodas said.  Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can you model your small groups after Levi’s house? In this episode, Oliver Hersey tells the story of Jesus calling Levi, or Matthew, the tax collector to follow Him. Many Christian scholars believe that Levi also wrote the gospel of Matthew, and witnessed the Ascension of Jesus, according to the Oxford Bible Commentary the Gospels. “After this he went out and saw a tax collector named Levi, sitting at the tax booth. And he said to him, “Follow me.” And leaving everything, he rose and followed him (Lk. 5:27-32).”  Soon after this encounter, Levi invited Jesus, and his tax-collector friends over for dinner, to dine with Jesus. The Pharisees questioned why Jesus would dine with sinners, and tax collectors. In response, Jesus said “And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners (Mk. 2:17).” Oliver indicated that Alpha is a small group ministry, that encourages seekers, and non-believers to ask questions about Christianity, in a welcoming environment. “The genius is that all it involves is food, and people, and drink and the presence of Jesus. He will grab people’s attention, when it’s time to,” Oliver said. If you work in ministry, there’s a good chance you’ve already left many things behind to follow Jesus. Holding onto your desire for greatness, fame, love, comfort, and convenience might still be a temptation, though. Here are a few questions to consider, if you'd like to start small group(s), where everyone matters: How can you model your small groups after Levi’s House? Have you left behind your desire for greatness? Are sinners welcome at your small group? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why is singing an important part of worship? Kristyn Getty and her husband, Keith wrote a book entitled “Sing: How Worship Transforms Your Life, Family and Church” that explores this question, in light of the Christian faith. They’re both known as modern hymn writers, and global ambassadors for the genre. Kristyn and Keith are best known for the modern hymn “In Christ Alone.” She aims to write beautiful songs that people can sing, highlighting Biblical truths, with stylistic influences from early hymn writers. Since she became a mom in 2011, she started wondering what it meant to teach her children how to sing. Kristyn said “We started doing a hymn a month with our kids, and that has been a wonderful thing.” Last month, they taught their children “It Is Well with My Soul” which has led to questions about who Satan is, and what it means to have assurance.  “What we sing is incredibly important. So much of what we sing is what we remember, and how we talk about our faith, how we pray, how we share our faith with unbelievers,” she said. Singing is an extension of our prayer life, and allows scripture to “dwell in us,” according to Kristyn. She indicated that the congregation is the ultimate choir, and is the life blood of the church. She said “There are some churches that sing robustly and have very carefully crafted worship services. Maybe it’s going down a liturgical path. And other churches have a more loose approach to how things are put together.”  Check out what was referenced on the podcast: Sing! In Christ Alone: Getty Music Worship Conference C.S. Lewis’ Essay on “Three Ways of Writing for Children” Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can you participate in the mission of God? In this episode, Oliver Hersey and Dr. Christopher Wright, author of The Mission of God: Unlocking the Bible's Grand Narrative discuss prayer, scripture reading, and theological study as ways to enter into God's mission. Dr. Wright said “we need to be men and women of mission. We need to see that we are participating in God’s mission in this world. We need to be followers of Jesus who are about the things that Jesus was about.”  In regards to prayer, and issues of social justice – Dr. Wright pointed to the Psalms and said “we need to be praying into the situation into much more Biblical ways.” He also points to the Lord’s Prayer as a way to enter into God’s mission, here on earth.  He also serves as the International Ministries Director of Langham Partnership International, a ministry founded by John Stott. Stott realized the church was lacking in resources for pastoral care and teaching. Because of this, he established a number of ministries, which later became known as Langham Partnership. Stott famously said “pastors can’t preach if they don’t study, and they can’t study if they have no books.” Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can you live in the tension of the ‘now, and not yet?’ Oliver Hersey and J.R. Briggs, author of The Sacred Overlap - Learning to Live in the Space In Between reflect on the mystery of the Christian life, as it relates to prayer, community and difficult questions we wrestle with. Briggs said “If you think about the overlapped life – it’s kind of like closing one eye. You can still see, but your depth perception and your peripheral vision is skewed significantly. We need both eyes in order to see with sharpness, clarity and depth.”  He talks about the “mandorla,” an almond shaped frame of light that surrounds holy persons in Christian art. Briggs said this concept has been around for a long time. He pointed out that the trinity symbol, includes the mandorla, two overlapping circles with a space in between. Briggs argued that Western culture is uncomfortable with the mystery of faith, due to the Enlightenment. He said “Eastern culture is much more comfortable with mystery, and not having everything solved. That’s the world that Jesus grew up in. If we only understand Him on facts, but we don’t let him be God in the mystery, we really miss out.” J.R. Briggs is the founder of Kairos Partnerships. He hosts the Resilient Leaders podcast, and serves on the Board of Directors with Jerusalem University College. Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can you ‘take off your mask off’ to be fully known? Oliver Hersey and John Lynch, author of “On My Worst Day: The Narrative changes When Redemption Enters In” explore that question. “It’s up to us as leaders, to be able to believe who are in Christ, to be able to know what I am telling is real. And I’m not wearing an idealized mask. That is the most profound gift, to someone in our audience, or community.” Lynch describes the paradoxes that we live in sometimes, as Christians. Your life can be messy, but you’re still made new in Christ, and not defined by your shame. The pandemic gave him an opportunity to release an updated version of his book “On My Worst Day,” where Lynch imagines what Jesus might be saying now.  He said “imagine the voice of Jesus who does not condemn – who stands in the center of everything I go through, who actually delights in me on my worst day. I wanted to give voice to that.” Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can you participate in the divine life? Oliver Hersey and Dr. Cherith Fee Nordling, Associate Professor at the Robert E. Webber Institute for Worship Studies at Regent College explore this question, in light of the Trinity.  She said “He is still incarnate, embodied, busy and is happy to invite us to be part of things.” Her students are blown away, when they find out that Jesus still has a body, is around 5’4’’ tall and Palestinian. Christological heresies often seek to simplify how Christ's humanity and divinity can be reconciled. For example, Docetism is a belief that Jesus’s human body wasn’t real; and Apollinarism, argues that Jesus had a human body, with a divine mind. Buying into heresies like this can lead people to misconceptions about Jesus, and our own identity: that our physical bodies don't matter after death, or that Jesus is no longer incarnate. "The heresies of the church are an attempt over 2,000 years, to try to simplify or to reduce the mystery of the fact that this is God in in our midst. We want to make him reasonable in our thinking,” according to Dr. Nordling. They also discuss Andrei Rublev’s icon of The Trinity, or the Hospitality of Abraham which depicts the three angels who visited Abraham at the Oak of Memre in Genesis 18:1-8. The icon shows how Jesus invites us into the divine life.   Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What defines Progressive Christianity? In this episode, Oliver Hersey and producer, Kelsey Bowse explore that question with Alisa Childers, author of Another Gospel: A Lifelong Christian Seeks Truth in Response to Progressive Christianity. She was also a member of ZOEgirl, a Christian band that toured from 1999-2013, with bands like Natalie Grant, and TobyMac Childers argues that Christians should be able to give an “apologia,” or defense for their faith. She said “every Christian should have a working knowledge, for at least the resurrection, and some basic Biblical reliability issues.” She drew attention to 1 Peter 3:15 (ESV) always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect. Her book, Another Gospel includes nine denials that define Progressive Christianity. In this conversation, Childers outlines the following denials: the authority of the Bible, the sin nature of man, and the reality of sin that separates us from God. When asked about Hell – she cited J.I. Packer ‘Hell is the negation of fellowship with the Lord, the negation of pleasure, the negation of any form of contentment.” Childers also added “if someone doesn’t like God now, they’re not going to want to be with him for eternity.” Her friend J. Warner Wallace outlines three things that take ministers down: sex, money and power. She indicated that Progressive Christians like Nadia Bolz-Weber are telling people “you can have all of those things.” That’s why, for some people, this message, is appealing – even though it’s antithetical to the Gospel. You can also listen to the Alisa Childers Podcast. Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices