The RELEVANT Podcast

Joel Smallbone of for KING + COUNTRY joins us as his Christmas musical 'Drummer Boy' heads to theaters. We talk about the eight years it took to get it made, why the best musicals don't sing the whole time and an offer to musical haters that we have never heard an artist make before.Then pastor and former NFL defensive back Dr. Derwin Gray gets honest about his new book, 'It's Time to Heal,' which sits right where faith and therapy meet. We talk about why depression isn't a sign you've sinned, why so many Christians spend years circling the same wound and the question from his son that helped him face his own childhood trauma.Jesse is back from jury duty, which he was promised would be over by lunch. It was not, and he ended up on a murder trial. In Slices, Jesse brings a new Pew study that finds a surprising faith gap between college-age people and young adults just a few years older. Derek makes the case for Kirk Franklin's new album 'I Am What I Am,' and we hear about the Thanksgiving guest Kirk still hasn't gotten over. And Marty wants to know why the whole world keeps searching the Bible app for the same Psalm.Then Marty's Life Hacks closes it out, and the hacks are starting to look a lot like signing up for things. Highlights: 01:07 — Jesse's back from jury duty (he thought he'd be out by lunch and got put on a murder trial) 10:08 — RELEVANT Recommends: Joel Smallbone of for KING + COUNTRY on his eight-year road to 'Drummer Boy' 12:46 — How 2020 turned 'Drummer Boy' into 'Unsung Hero' 15:44 — Joel's offer to anyone who hates musicals 16:06 — Derek and Jesse already have a plan for Joel's offer 17:35 — Slices: Pew finds 18-to-22-year-olds out-churching the rest of America 22:15 — Derek on Kirk Franklin's new album 'I Am What I Am' 26:57 — The Thanksgiving Kanye ate Kirk Franklin's leftovers 31:51 — Jesse's spirit tunnel strategy32:24 — Marty on the most searched term in the Bible app 38:40 — Dr. Derwin Gray on 'It's Time to Heal' and where faith and therapy meet 40:27 — When mourning stops being a season 42:03 — "Christ's behavioral therapy" 44:03 — "Depression is not a sign that you've sinned" 45:30 — Derwin's question for the "just pray it away" crowd 46:21 — Trauma isn't just something that happened to you 49:36 — Marty's Life Hack56:06 — Is Joel's offer legally binding?

Former We The Kingdom singer Franni Cash grew up inside a cult, and her debut solo album ‘Here I Am’ is about what came after. We talk about the diary she had to hide, the day her family walked out, what she found when she met the real Jesus and what she’d tell anyone in a controlling church right now.The crew also gets into the backlash to Carl and Laura Lentz’s latest round of interviews and what Christians actually expect from someone who is doing the work of repentance. In Slices, Derek takes us inside Peter Thiel’s leaked lectures on the Antichrist, where the people the billionaire says to watch are not who you’d guess. Marty brings good news for anyone who has paid an AirBnB cleaning fee and had to do the dishes anyway. Then Marty’s Life Hacks has a listener-submitted tip about your chips that the rest of us are still processing, and Derek gets some constructive feedback on the zipper location in his new music video.An all hip-hop One Has to Go closes it out, and with two rappers on the panel, somebody was always going to get flamed.Highlights:02:24 — Are rappers’ gold chains secretly smart investing? 03:48 — Jesse’s on a jury, and Cameron played every card to get out of his 09:19 — Do hard times make better art? The Gulf War brought us Chingy 10:44 — Jay-Z reportedly books himself for the Super Bowl (and our guest list) 13:00 — “Can you tell me about your cult, please?” 15:32 — Introducing Unedited, our new full-interview series 16:46 — The backlash to Carl and Laura Lentz’s interviews 27:03 — “You’re only canceled until your next hit” 28:11 — Derek on why powerful people never admit they were wrong 31:32 — Franni Cash on growing up inside a cult 33:42 — What happened to the diary she kept hidden 35:57 — The night the cult jokes stopped being funny 38:21 — The burned page behind ‘Here I Am’ 39:47 — Her message for anyone inside a controlling church 41:50 — Slices: Peter Thiel’s leaked lectures on the Antichrist 45:34 — Airbnb is ending checkout chores 49:53 — Marty’s Life Hacks: Should your chips live in the freezer? 54:22 — One Has to Go 58:53 — Marty’s case against Dr. Dre 1:00:53 — Marty braces to get flamed 1:08:03 — Marty’s new album gets a release date 1:10:36 — Derek’s ‘r n r’ video and some feedback on his hoodie zipper location

Former Hillsong NYC pastor Carl Lentz and his wife Laura stayed together, and now they've written the book on it, 'Overcoming Infidelity.' We talk about the small warning signs, when leaving is actually the right call, what they've told their kids and what Carl says to the skeptics calling this a comeback tour.Plus, Cameron is back from NYC, where Greta Gerwig previewed 'Narnia: The Magician's Nephew.’ He went in skeptical and tells us what he saw and heard. In Slices, Jesse makes the case for 'You Can See Everything,' the three-hour Elizabeth Holmes movie everyone is talking about and nobody is spoiling (we won't either). Derek tells us why Hulvey canceled his Amsterdam show, and Marty asks the crew to name their favorite sin, which turns into a real conversation about Philip Anthony Mitchell and what comes after the celebrity pastor era.Then Marty's Life Hacks closes it out with a tip so wholesome we're pretty sure city hall is paying him.Highlights:01:41 — Cameron's report from Greta Gerwig's Narnia preview event 06:44 — The Aslan question 10:06 — Derek's case against the Meryl Streep casting 17:14 — How 'Stairway to Heaven' ended up in Narnia 24:03 — Slices: The Elizabeth Holmes movie nobody is spoiling 34:59 — Hulvey cancels a sold-out show over what was on the venue walls 37:28 — Marty asks the crew to name their favorite sin 37:46 — Philip Anthony Mitchell gets honest on The Breakfast Club 40:29 — What comes after the celebrity pastor era? 48:18 — Derek makes room for pastors in Jordans 49:05 — Carl and Laura Lentz on 'Overcoming Infidelity' 52:12 — Carl on the secrets that come before the big one 54:13 — Laura on when leaving is the right call 56:08 — What they've told their kids (and the phone call Carl didn't see coming) 1:01:39 — Carl's answer for the skeptics1:06:47 — Marty's Life Hacks: Wait, the library has 3D printers?

Jamie MacDonald, fresh off winning New Artist of the Year at the Dove Awards, joins us as her new deluxe album arrives this week. We talk about what it’s like to be the biggest thing in CCM right now, reliving her testimony on stage every night and the Alaska fudge shop that can’t stop playing her record.In RELEVANT Buzz, Instagram admits it’s been recommending Creed’s ‘Higher’ more than it should, and we think the algorithm might be trying to heal America. Drill rapper Fivio Foreign gets honest about the hardest part of his walk with Jesus, and Pope Leo says algorithms lack “the spark of humanity,” which has us asking where all the song bridges went.Plus, Marty’s new co-working space comes with an indoor mini golf course, and his family’s Halloween costume plan leaves the rest of us in a cold sweat. Then One Has to Go closes it out: Pastor Appreciation Month downsized to a week, one severed head too many and a turkey leg that turns grown men into cavemen.Highlights:01:09 — Marty’s co-working space comes with a mini golf course 08:37 — RELEVANT Buzz: Instagram can’t stop recommending Creed’s ‘Higher’ 10:26 — Jesse’s theory: The algorithm wants us back at Creed’s 2001 Thanksgiving halftime show 15:56 — Derek’s plan for the first Christian rap Super Bowl halftime 17:25 — Fivio Foreign goes from drill to praising Jesus (and gets honest about what’s hardest) 21:21 — Derek’s case for Fonzworth Bentley as hip-hop’s unsung hero 23:42 — Is AI art always a little cringe? Pope Leo weighs in 25:13 — Derek wants bridges and vamps back 29:21 — The architect who felt “God pushing my pencil” 32:53 — Jamie MacDonald on the long road to becoming Christian music’s biggest new name 35:37 — Why ‘Left It in the River’ hit so hard 38:29 — Playing the Ryman a mile from where she was born 40:21 — Is the pop culture Halloween costume dead? 41:07 — Marty’s family Halloween plan 45:37 — One Has to Go 47:05 — Derek on the Black church’s honor culture 50:39 — Derek has seen enough severed heads 52:26 — Seven-year-old Cameron explains street economics to his mom 54:34 — Where do the full-size candy bar houses actually live?

Irish folk trio Kingfishr joins us right as everyone's playlist turns to fall vibes. We talk about how they went from a self-described rip-off band to leaning all the way into traditional Irish music, the old farmhouse with walls thick enough to start a band in and what's giving them hope right now.In Slices, Smashing Pumpkins frontman Billy Corgan says plainly that Jesus is his Lord and Savior and that he doesn't care what it costs him. Derek brings a new study about the surprising group of married couples that are having the best intimacy, and Jesse checks into sleep tourism, where people are paying huge amounts for a hotel room whose main attraction is being unconscious.We also debut Marty’s Life Hack of the Week, and we bring back our annual Mascot Bracket Challenge!Highlights:00:52 — Diddy's prison perks and the only sneakers you can buy behind bars 04:47 — Derek's coffee-shop intervention for Cameron 06:02 — Marty's Life Hack of the Week: The accidental text on purpose 09:27 — Jesse, a leaking car and the cul-de-sac group text 10:37 — Derek explains who this will not work on 14:25 — Therapists, please diagnose Marty in the comments 15:33 — The steakhouse butter hack 18:50 — Slices: People are paying $1,700 a night just to sleep 23:53 — Aaron Rodgers and the darkness retreat 24:57 — Who's having the most sex? Derek has a study 27:01 — Wait, who paid for this survey? 29:06 — Are Billy Corgan and Bill Burr half-brothers? 31:50 — Billy Corgan calls Jesus his Lord and Savior 36:24 — Why our parents banned Smashing Pumpkins 37:45 — Kingfishr on trad Irish roots, the farmhouse and what's giving them hope 43:10 — The annual Mascot Bracket Challenge 45:36 — The spiritual round: Demon Deacon vs. Sun Devil 48:09 — We don't think about kangaroos enough 56:38 — The Final Four

Orlando Magic forward Jonathan Isaac joins us as NBA teams kick off training camp this week. We talk about what happens when Christians put an athlete on a pedestal, the upcoming NBA season — his 10th — and how his faith-based athletic brand UNITUS has evolved over the last few years.In Slices, Jesse found the 26-cent coin that just sold for $17,000 and has a retirement plan for whoever works at the Mint. Derek brings the new study showing Gen Z and millennials are drinking less (while Gen X picks up the slack). And Marty explains why Gen Z is buying CDs again without owning a CD player (K-pop, mostly).Also, Marty keeps his raw denim in the freezer, started collecting Ralph Lauren stamps and is starting to worry about what California is doing to him. Derek has questions. Plus Jesse is going to a silent disco, Cameron debunks the Christopher Nolan Darth Vader rumor and we relitigate the time Derek wore a Rodman jersey in Cameron's courtside seats.Question of the Week: What's your creative, unexpected Halloween costume idea for 2026? Drop it in the comments and we'll read the best ones next week.Highlights:00:30 — Marty's "life hack" that is just backing up your phone 02:55 — Derek's NBA 2K theory of why people don't take responsibility 04:39 — Marty keeps his $400 jeans in the freezer and Derek has questions 10:44 — Why we're running the whole Jonathan Isaac conversation uncut 15:26 — Cameron apologizes to a Magic coach in a Vegas casino 17:09 — Derek wore a Rodman jersey in Cameron's courtside seats 18:28 — Does Cameron need a signature courtside look? 21:44 — Slices: A 26-cent coin sold for $17,000 and Jesse has a plan for the Mint 24:58 — Marty bought a Ralph Lauren stamp collection and is worried about himself 30:54 — Jesse is going to a silent disco 34:43 — Gen Z and millennials are drinking less. Gen X is drinking a lot more 42:20 — The Christopher Nolan Darth Vader movie is not real 44:11 — CD sales are up 59% and half the buyers don't own a CD player 48:16 — Question of the Week: Halloween costume ideas for 2026 49:34 — Jonathan Isaac on year 10, faith under the spotlight and UNITUS

This week, the crew gets philosophical fast. Jesse makes the case that cornhole can cure the loneliness epidemic, Derek wants to bring back boredom and we figure out how doing nothing on a flight became an achievement. Derek also plays his new single 'Lift Me Up' and explains why he built it on the old synths instead of the easy way.In RELEVANT Buzz, Greta Gerwig cast Meryl Streep as the voice of Aslan in the upcoming Narnia movie, and the comments did what the comments do. Jesse defends it, Derek explains it with potato salad and a text from someone who's actually seen the movie changes the conversation. Then Christian Bale opens a village so foster siblings don't get split up, which makes him the real Batman. Elevation Worship and Chandler Moore's 'God I'm Just Grateful' just did something a worship song hasn't done since 'Oceans.' And Jesse brings a CDC report that says most of us are exhausted, which turns into Bob Goff quitting something every Thursday and why no one ever preaches "pray for less." Then a new game, Take Sides, closes it out: Chick-fil-A vs. Raising Cane's, window vs. aisle, Waffle House as a life stage and Derek's very strong feelings about hot tubs.Highlights:01:28 — Jesse's plan to cure loneliness with cornhole 07:54 — Derek deleted social media. Bring back boredom 10:33 — Raw dogging a flight and the David Puddy origin story 17:22 — Derek's new single 'Lift Me Up' and curating Apple Music's Elevate playlist 24:09 — RELEVANT Buzz: The CDC says 3 in 4 Americans are exhausted (guess who's most tired) 29:35 — Bob Goff quits something every Thursday 32:15 — Why nobody preaches "pray for less" 34:14 — Warren Buffett hands Berkshire to his son 35:00 — The real Batman: Christian Bale's foster village opens 38:32 — Meryl Streep as Aslan? The Narnia fight 42:04 — Derek's potato salad theory of Narnia 48:34 — A text from inside the movie 50:51 — Elevation Worship & Chandler Moore crack the Hot 100 53:01 — Take Sides: Chick-fil-A vs. Raising Cane's, hot tub vs. pool

It's a special (shorter) episode this week! Andrew Garfield joins us — we talk about his new Paul Greengrass film 'The Uprising,' why he keeps coming back to characters who are searching and what he thinks faith has to do with justice.Then pop artist Claire Rosinkranz talks with us backstage at Lollapalooza. She gets into the moment she says she heard God at 11 years old, what her therapist told her when she felt like she'd stopped hearing Him and why she grieves her younger self. (Plus some lighter stuff too.)And then Cameron briefly takes us through the new fall digital issue of RELEVANT, which is out this week. Make sure to check it out at RELEVANTmagazine.com!Highlights:02:41 — Andrew Garfield on 'The Uprising' 15:35 — Claire Rosinkranz 25:01 — Inside the new issue of RELEVANT

This week Cory Asbury joins us. He walked away from worship music five years ago—we talk about what pulled him back and why it's different this time. His new worship record, Outsing the Angels, is out September 18.In Slices, Jesse brings up the Tesla Cyber Cab, which is now driving around Austin with no steering wheel, no rearview mirror and no brake pedal, and the federal government has questions. (He also has a theory about what’s actually driving them.) Derek tells us how Skilla Baby’s prayer took over The Breakfast Club this week, and Marty tells the story of the 1986 Zelda art where Link is kneeling in a church praying to Jesus.Also, water parks are the last lawless place in America, and somebody in Virginia Beach burned down a 50-foot gorilla named Hugh Mungus.Then One Has to Go closes it out: find out what slow jams, Good Charlotte, and Fast and Furious have in common.Highlights:03:00 — Water parks: the last lawless place in America06:22 — Hugh Mungus, the 50-foot gorilla an arsonist burned down11:17 — Slices: Tesla's Cyber Cab shipped without a brake pedal, and the feds noticed18:48 — Marty walks away from a Waymo wreck21:38 — Skilla Baby's prayer alarm goes off on The Breakfast Club26:06 — Link was praying to Jesus, and Nintendo of America took it out31:53 — Bible Adventures, bootleg cartridges and the Christian Marvel comics33:52 — Cory Asbury on leaving worship music and what brought him back42:39 — One Has to Go

This week SEU Worship joins us — we talk about the SEU Outpouring and their new album 'Found in the Field.' In RELEVANT Buzz, 'Scary Movie' star Anna Faris opens up on Chelsea Handler's podcast about her 14-year-old son and the conversations he keeps having with her about Jesus. Then the biggest artist in music right now, Ella Langley, is rewriting the record books and getting bolder about God from the stage. We play what she said at a recent show. Then there's 'Death of the Pastor's Wife,' the new Netflix series about Mica Miller, the South Carolina pastor's wife whose death became a national story.In Slices, a 47-year-old Bay Area pastor made a college football roster and is now a defensive end at a community college. And scientists have worked out how to turn plastic bottles into protein cookies for disaster zones and deep space crews (nobody has actually eaten one yet). We close the show with a bracket game ranking five years of Emily’s time at RELEVANT: the Eras Tour, girl dinner, jalapeño poppers, a church prom photo. It's her last episode with us, and we send her off the right way.Coincidentally, we also let you know about some new job openings over at RELEVANTmediagroup.com. Highlights:02:24 — Derek on teenagers again04:52 — The lame duck era08:59 — Derek's Dell call center exit stories13:37 — Jesse quits Kmart17:06 — RELEVANT Buzz: Anna Faris on her son Jack's faith21:58 — Ella Langley's record-breaking run and her mini sermon26:26 — 'Death of the Pastor's Wife' on Netflix30:33 — SEU Worship on 'Found in the Field'38:34 — Slices: a 47-year-old pastor makes a college football roster44:09 — Slices: plastic bottles into protein cookies47:17 — The Emily Brown Bracket Challenge58:34 — Five years of Emily Brown59:37 — We're hiring