Space to Grow, with Matt Weinzierl and Brendan Rosseau

This week on Pathfinder, we’re joined by Matt Weinzierl, Chair of the MBA Program and Professor at Harvard Business School, and Brendan Rosseau, a member of the strategy team for launch at Blue Origin. Together, they’ve co-authored Space to Grow: Unlocking the Final Economic Frontier, a new book exploring the history, key players, and economic forces driving the momentum behind the space industry.We discuss:The evolution of space economics and how government-private sector dynamics are changingThe role of NASA as an anchor customer and whether the model has limitsThe rise of defense-focused pivots in commercial space companiesMarket competition and whether we’re seeing monopolization in spaceThe economic case for lunar activity, space stations, and emerging industriesThe biggest risks that could stall commercial space progressTheir book launches on February 25, and this conversation is a must-listen for anyone interested in the economic forces shaping the future of space. You can order here! • Chapters •00:00 Intro04:00 HBS’s Space Program06:36 An introduction to “Space to Grow”08:50 The shift from space to defense13:02 What to expect from the book16:56 Space competition or monopolization?21:52 How classic economic principles apply to space29:24 Are we transitioning away from NASA to anchor customers?33:36 Does space have the right financing structures in place to build this industry?38:47 Economic case for the Moon (Mars?)44:16 Viability of space stations48:22 What space industries have the best economic potential in the next couple decades?52:32 Biggest impediment to the space industry55:43 Key takeaways from “Space to Grow”59:05 Matt and Brendan's favorite books01:01:13 Where to find Matt and Brendan • Show notes •Space to Grow — https://www.amazon.com/Space-Grow-Unlocking-Economic-Frontier/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we’re joined by Jeremiah Pate, founder and CEO of Lunasonde, a company pioneering subsurface imaging from space. Lunasonde is developing technology to map the Earth’s underground, leveraging low-frequency synthetic aperture radar (SAR) to identify critical minerals and resources.With two satellites launched and the first full-tech satellite in their constellation set to launch in July, this episode dives into how Lunasonde is reshaping resource exploration. We also discuss:Lunasonde’s founding story and Jeremiah’s inspiration for the companyThe fundamentals of subsurface SAR and how it differs from traditional radar technologiesThe company’s royalty-based business model and its potential to disrupt the critical minerals industryReal-world applications, including a breakthrough discovery of a previously unknown copper depositThe long-term vision for Lunasonde, including applications beyond Earth and mapping resources on the Moon and asteroidsInsights on the challenges of scaling a space startup and navigating regulatory barriersAnd more… • Chapters •00:00 Intro03:04 What is SAR?05:19 What is subsurface?06:29 Critical minerals and Lunasonde's approach to the market07:49 Size & demand10:20 System architecture11:28 Lunasonde's launches12:02 Interpreting SAR data13:27 SubSAR vs seismic imaging or ground penetrating radar15:25 Environmental reasons behind building subSAR16:22 How to ensure accuracy and reliability of the data17:08 Corona satellites20:48 How does Lunasonde convince ideal customers to embrace new technologies?22:48 Examples of discovering new deposits24:09 Lunasonde's competitors26:02 Why do people think subSAR is impossible?27:12 Going beyond the Earth28:39 Other revenue models30:27 Commercial vs government traction31:27 Is Lunasonde looking for partnerships with space mining startups?32:14 Scaling path33:09 Funding34:11 What keeps Jeremiah up at night?34:52 Long-term vision36:53 Could orgs like NASA use Lunasonde's capabilities for more intensive resource hunting missions?38:28 What would Jeremiah like to change in the space industry?40:51 If Jeremiah wasn't working at Lunasonde, where would he like to work? • Show notes •Lunasonde’s website — https://www.lunasonde.com/Lunasonde’s socials — https://x.com/Lunasonde/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we’re joined by Awais Ahmed, founder and CEO of Pixxel, a company focused on developing hyperspectral imaging technology from space. Pixxel is developing the world’s first commercial hyperspectral satellite constellation, aiming to provide detailed insights into critical industries like agriculture, energy, and defense.With the recent launch of three Firefly satellites—the first in Pixxel’s commercial fleet—this episode explores the company’s progress and vision for the future of Earth observation. We also discuss:Pixxel’s founding story and Awais’ background in satellite engineering and Hyperloop competitionsThe fundamentals of hyperspectral imaging and its advantages over traditional imaging methodsPixxel’s satellite constellation plans and how they’re balancing commercial and government marketsThe role of AI in satellite imaging and its potential to unlock new applicationsAwais’ take on the evolving Earth observation market and the challenges of scaling a space startupAnd more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:48 - Impact of the new administration02:32 - The story behind Pixxel07:37 - Hyperspectral imaging11:14 - How hyperspectral fits into the other types of satellite imaging15:01 - How big is the satellite imaging market today?17:30 - Government uses and advancements in hyperspectral21:30 - Established commercial vs growing government markets25:23 - What does Pixxel's constellation look like?27:22 - Firefly vs Honeybee28:03 - Customer experience at Pixxel29:46 - AI's impact33:44 - Most valuable part of the EO stack36:05 - Starlink architecture and other EO businesses37:49 - Pixxel's commercial traction39:27 - What's a good margin profile?42:01 - Valuation of public EO businesses45:19 - Raising private capital in EO and fundraising plans48:37 - Pixxel in 203550:22 - What else excites Awais besides EO?51:29 - Pixxel's US office • Show notes •Pixxel’s website — https://www.pixxel.space/Pixxel’s socials — https://x.com/PixxelSpaceAwais’ socials — https://x.com/awaisahmednaMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we welcome Adam Draper, founder and managing director of Boost VC, an early-stage venture capital firm based in San Mateo, CA, specializing in pre-seed deals in deep tech, including space.Boost VC’s track record includes early investments in space companies such as Varda, Starfish Space, and K2 Space. This episode explores the philosophy and strategy behind the firm’s approach to venture capital.In addition, we discuss:Adam’s journey into VC and the Draper family legacy in the industryThe firm’s commitment to backing “impossible” ideas and frontier technologiesInsights into investing in deep tech, from identifying committed founders to understanding market risksThe importance of storytelling and momentum in aerospace and defense startupsBoost’s role in shaping the future of space industries, from lunar water mining to satellite servicing and space manufacturingPredictions for the future of space and deep tech, including the rise of biopharma in orbit and even the search for extraterrestrial lifeAnd much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:45 - Adam's background07:48 - Boost VC11:57 - How do you tell a founder has commitment?14:04 - Signs of a founder with a real interest in space17:54 - Making the case for the space market20:51 - On the frontier23:01 - Signs Adam looks for when he needs to step in and direct a company28:20 - Investing in software vs. deep tech30:43 - Early-stage pre-seed investing38:07 - How would a founder differentiate themselves when it comes to fundraising?43:25 - How to stay ahead of the curve with investing in space48:36 - Craziest space deal Adam has invested in51:46 - Adam's 2025 predictions • Show notes •Boost VC website — https://www.boost.vc/Boost’s socials — https://x.com/BoostVCAdam’s socials — https://x.com/AdamDraperMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we’re ready to kick off 2025 with our first episode back from a brief holiday hiatus. Joining us is Stefan Powell, co-founder and CEO of Dawn Aerospace—a company focused on building scalable, sustainable space transportation solutions. After cutting their teeth with an in-space propulsion business, Dawn is now pushing the boundaries with Aurora, a rocket-powered plane that recently breaking the sound barrier (or Mach 1).In this episode, we explore:From Student Rocket Club to Thriving Venture: Stefan’s background and how his early rocketry experiences shaped Dawn’s mission.Satellite Propulsion: Why Dawn’s safer, scalable alternatives to traditional satellite fuel are gaining traction in the market—and how they enable near-term revenue.Aurora’s Breakthrough Flight: Hitting Mach 1.1, testing supersonic aerodynamics, and the path toward suborbital flight capabilities.Hypersonics & Beyond: Why government R&D and military programs are pouring billions into hypersonics research—and how Dawn plans to help solve the “access-to-test-time” gap.Aircraft-Like Space Access: Dawn’s long-term vision for truly rapid, reusable, runway-based vehicles that could revolutionize launch operations.Building for the Future, One Step at a Time: How Stefan thinks about scaling, capital efficiency, and bridging near-term commercial opportunities with an ambitious roadmap.…and much, more. • Chapters •00:00:00 - Intro00:01:45 - Founding Dawn00:06:33 - Core products00:08:52 - Sustainability00:11:25 - How Stefan got into the space industry00:16:20 - What Stefan is developing with Aurora00:19:09 - Recent flight00:20:38 - Why is it important to go past Mach 1?00:24:02 - Technical milestones before full orbital capabilities00:26:43 - Hypersonics and building commercial ability00:30:23 - Government customers00:31:39 - Opportunities in hypersonic weapons?00:33:02 - Payload capacity of first commercial launch vehicle00:33:58 - Long-term scaling goals00:37:15 - What is so difficult about building commercial hypersonic platforms?00:42:05 - Most significant hurdles when it comes to scaling and manufacturing00:44:32 - Building in New Zealand00:46:38 - Revenue mix00:48:15 - Capital efficiency00:51:47 - Effect of Starship on the launch market00:53:42 - What does success look like for Dawn over the next 10 years00:56:25 - What Stefan has learned about being a CEO/Founder for 15 years00:58:11 - Everything's on the table • Show notes •Dawn’s website — https://www.dawnaerospace.com/Dawn’s socials — https://x.com/DawnAerospaceStefan’s socials — https://x.com/Stefan__PowellMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Quick PSA: This is our final Pathfinder episode of 2024! We’re so grateful for your support and can’t wait to bring you more content and a new format next year. Stay tuned!In our third and final episode of our special three-part Pathfinder series on lunar architecture—brought to you by our partners at Lockheed Martin—we’re focusing on how nuclear-enabled technologies will power and propel a sustainable future on the Moon. This episode ties together the insights from the series and offers a vision of how energy systems will enable humans to survive on the lunar surface and venture deeper into the solar system.Joining us are Kerry Timmons, Senior Manager of Business Development at Lockheed Martin for Lunar Infrastructure, and Joe Miller, President of BWXT Advanced Technologies. Together, they share their perspective on the role nuclear power and propulsion play in supporting a long-term presence on the Moon.We also discuss:How nuclear technologies provide reliable power during the lunar night and beyondThe engineering challenges and solutions for deploying nuclear systemsThe interplay between nuclear and solar energy in a resilient lunar gridApplications for nuclear thermal propulsionThe collaborative efforts required across government, industry, and international partners to make this a realityAnd much, much more… • Chapters •00:00:00 - Intro00:01:05 - Joe's background00:02:47 - Kerry's background00:04:19 - Vision for a thriving lunar infrastructure00:07:13 - Nuclear and space00:08:48 - Lockheed's history with nuclear00:10:23 - Lessons from history that make current power systems in space more efficient00:13:00 - Nuclear's importance for a sustained lunar presence00:16:09 - Engineering challenges00:18:54 - How does mass play a role in the design of the nuclear reactor?00:20:24 - What will these reactors power?00:22:04 - Regulation & safety00:25:22 - Space Policy Directive – 600:27:03 - International alignment00:30:24 - Propulsion00:34:30 - Chemical vs. nuclear propulsion00:38:53 - When will nuclear systems be ready for use?00:40:06 - Economic reason for using nuclear propulsion00:43:34 - Terrestrial application for nuclear00:44:40 - Startup capabilities that Lockheed is interested in00:47:25 - What tech breakthrough would you prioritize for the Moon?00:49:36 - Innovation predictions in the next 10 years • Show notes •Lockheed Martin’s website — https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/capabilities/space/human-space-exploration/water-based-lunar-architecture/lockheed-martins-lunar-architecture-novella-white-paper.htmlLockheed Martin Space’ socials — https://twitter.com/LMSpaceMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

In the second episode of our special three-part Pathfinder series on lunar architecture—brought to you by our partners at Lockheed Martin—we’re zooming in on the technologies and design principles that will help establish a sustainable, long-term presence on the Moon and pave the way for future missions to Mars. Joining us are Christie Iacomini, who manages Lockheed Martin’s lunar infrastructure technology portfolio, and Tim Cichan, the company’s space exploration architect.Christie and Tim walk us through the building blocks of lunar infrastructure, from robust power systems and reliable communications networks to habitats and mobility solutions. They also highlight the importance of resource utilization, the evolving role of public-private partnerships, and the collaborative efforts needed to turn ambitious concepts into practical solutions.We discuss:The role of vertical solar arrays, nuclear fission systems, and power grids in supporting lunar operationsCommunications challenges and the roadmap for building an interoperable lunar networkInnovative habitats and rovers designed to withstand extreme lunar conditionsStrategies for in-situ resource utilization, including extracting water ice and other key materialsThe significance of international collaboration and commercial engagement in achieving lasting lunar sustainabilityAnd much, much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro03:45 - What is a space architect?04:42 - Lockheed's goal for Mars08:23 - Technological advancements that have made a long-term Moon mission possible09:52 - What does a successful Lunar mission look like?11:46 - Power systems for Lunar and Mars missions and state of development cycles18:15 - Tech in Artemis II and III20:04 - Challenges for creating a seamless communications network for the Moon22:34 - Effect of modern tech in space27:10 - Lunar mobility capabilities30:44 - Habitation33:14 - Inflatable vs modular habitats34:20 - Lunar resource utilization36:42 - How to create seamless integration between mission-critical tech41:55 - Planned contingencies43:49 - Seemingly futuristic technology45:54 - Getting around on the Moon47:48 - How Lockheed works with other companies building Lunar architecture49:01 - Technical milestones50:58 - What will it take to land on the Moon on time?52:07 - Inspirations for your work • Show notes •Lockheed Martin’s website — https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/capabilities/space/human-space-exploration/water-based-lunar-architecture/lockheed-martins-lunar-architecture-novella-white-paper.htmlLockheed Martin Space’ socials — https://twitter.com/LMSpaceMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we’re excited to bring you a special one-off episode, made possible by Astroscale U.S., the Denver-based subsidiary of Astroscale, a global provider of on-orbit servicing solutions. This episode dives into the DoD’s push to integrate commercial in-space servicing, assembly, and manufacturing (ISAM) capabilities to enhance flexibility, resilience, and sustainability in military space operations.Joining the discussion are retired Colonel Dennis Wille, Senior Director of Business Development for National Security at Astroscale US, and John “Patsy” Klein, Senior Fellow in Strategy at Falcon Research and a leading expert in space policy and strategy. Together, we unpack how ISAM technologies are transforming space operations and advancing U.S. leadership in the domain.This episode covers:The DoD’s commercial space integration strategy and ISAM’s role in enhancing operational resilienceThe challenges and opportunities of managing space debris and enabling active debris removalHow ISAM capabilities like refueling, repair, and inspection are reshaping spacecraft lifecyclesThe critical role of commercial partnerships in supporting national security objectivesThe future of space operations and the technologies poised to drive innovationAnd much, much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro04:12 - What is ISAM and why is it so important to the DoD's space strategy?06:08 - Patsy's role in commercial integration of ISAM08:49 - What is the DoD's commercial space strategy?10:57 - Astroscale's priorities14:53 - Why does the government care about debris removal?16:18 - Why does space junk removal help the US to maintain leadership in space?19:30 - PLEO and commercial opportunity22:49 - Tech capabilities being developed at Astroscale26:50 - Mature ISAM capabilities that we have today29:23 - Astroscale and DoD partnership31:07 - Government vs commercial customer makeup prediction32:19 - Policy/regulatory hurdles for ISAM34:17 - What will it take for commercial to become a bigger part of Astroscale's business?37:09 - Does ISAM have an education issue?39:18 - Technical gaps in ISAM40:50 - What technological advancements should we anticipate?42:24 - What defense strategies will ISAM create?45:06 - How Astroscale positions themselves against competitors47:59 - Advice for investors interested in ISAM49:28 - How can the US maintain their leadership role in space?51:53 - Book recommendations • Show notes •Astroscale’s website — hhttps://astroscale-us.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we’re kicking off a special three-part series on lunar architecture, brought to you by our friends at Lockheed Martin. To kick off the series, we’re exploring the future of lunar architecture more broadly with Rob Chambers, Director of Strategy for Human Space Exploration at Lockheed Martin, and Alex MacDonald, Chief Economist at NASA. In this episode, Alex and Rob share their perspectives on the complexities of building sustainable lunar missions and the critical technologies shaping the future. The discussion dives into the integration of international collaboration, public-private partnerships, and groundbreaking innovations that will enable humanity’s return to the Moon and its next steps across the solar system.We also cover:NASA’s Artemis program and the Moon-to-Mars exploration strategyThe role of international and commercial partnerships in advancing lunar missionsFoundational infrastructure, including habitats, rovers, and nuclear power systemsLessons from Apollo and how they inform today’s approach to sustainable lunar explorationThe evolving lunar economy and what it might mean for humanity’s future in spaceAnd much, much more...• Chapters •00:00 - Intro01:25 - Rob's and Alex's background04:22 - NASA's vision for the Moon09:15 - NASA and Lockheed: their history with the Moon13:36 - Lessons from previous Lunar missions16:34 - What has changed to allow partnerships to be more efficient?25:13 - Challenges working with international agencies30:35 - Helium-3 mining and other lunar business models37:14 - Lockheed's Lunar Roadmap43:05 - Who are the other players in the Artemis program and collaboration?49:56 - Resiliency and risk55:13 - End goals for Lunar missions in the next 100 years01:02:41 - When are we landing on the Moon? • Show notes •Lockheed Martin’s website — https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/capabilities/space/human-space-exploration/water-based-lunar-architecture/lockheed-martins-lunar-architecture-novella-white-paper.htmlLockheed Martin Space’ socials — https://twitter.com/LMSpaceMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes• About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we are joined by Chris Morales, Partner at Point72 Ventures, for a discussion on venture capital’s role in shaping the space and defense technology landscape. In this episode, Chris provides a detailed overview of Point72 Ventures’ strategic approach to investing, drawing on his background as a former naval officer and his experience in venture capital. The conversation covers key trends and challenges facing the space and defense sectors, with a focus on how startups can navigate this evolving ecosystem.In addition, we discuss:Point72 Ventures’ investment framework and focus on emerging technologies critical to national securityThe growth of the space economy, from the adoption of proliferated LEO architectures to in-space mobility innovationsEvaluating companies across different stages of maturityThe role of government programs and non-dilutive fundingSpaceX’s impact on market dynamics and its broader implications for venture-backed companiesStructural and financial barriers that space and defense startups face, and how investors can help address them • Chapters •00:00 - Intro01:02 - Chris's Thanksgiving must-haves02:15 - Point72 Ventures overview05:35 - History with space06:42 - Why did Point72 Ventures first get into space?09:00 - Chris's thesis about the space industry10:49 - Proliferated LEO12:11 - Predictive work and investments13:02 - At what stage in a company is Point72 Ventures looking to invest?13:53 - How does space fit into the investment strategy?15:51 - What happens when a portfolio company isn't hitting their milestones?17:12 - The process18:39 - How Point72 Ventures separates itself and what it provides beyond capital20:31 - Public and private sides of the firm21:13 - Market dynamics24:05 - Is there enough government funding for startups, and are they winning enough contracts?27:29 - Does SpaceX's valuation make sense?29:47 - Starship vs. Starlink business prediction32:42 - Is SpaceX a monopoly?33:26 - Is SpaceX a concern when it comes to investing in the industry?35:04 - Biggest issues facing startups today and how can investors help39:04 - Over and under-hyped areas of the market40:36 - Space ventures in the next decade42:25 - Gaps in the market43:37 - Advice to founders looking to start a space company45:00 - Mars47:00 - What does Chris do for fun? • Show notes •Point72 Ventures’ website — https://p72.vc/Point 72 Ventures’ socials — https://x.com/p72vcChris’ socials — https://x.com/MrChrisMoralesMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/