Let’s Get Real with Stephen Jones

What if the face you've seen your entire life isn't what Joseph Smith actually looked like?When forensic artist Joseph Brickey first saw a disputed photograph believed by some to show Joseph Smith, he expected to prove it wrong. Instead, what he discovered challenged everything he thought he knew about Joseph's appearance including his own artwork.What he thought would take a few weeks became a four-year investigation that tested his expertise, his livelihood, and his faith.In this episode of Let's Get Real, Stephen Jones sits down with Joseph Brickey to investigate one of the most intriguing questions in Latter-day Saint history: What did Joseph Smith really look like?Together, they examine the Smith–Larsen daguerreotype, Joseph Smith's death mask, conflicting historical portraits, the skull photographs from the 1928 exhumation of Joseph and Hyrum Smith, and the 3D forensic reconstruction Brickey believes reveals a compelling anatomical match.But the most surprising part of this conversation isn't just what Brickey believes he discovered about Joseph Smith.It's what the search revealed about himself.Brickey opens up about the pressure of being wrong, the personal sacrifices he made, the moments he wanted to give up, and why the experience ultimately changed the way he understands Joseph Smith, truth, restoration, and Jesus Christ.Could this photograph really show Joseph Smith? What does the forensic evidence tell us, and what questions remain unanswered?And what happens when the pursuit of truth challenges everything we thought we knew?This is a conversation about discovering the man behind the image, the courage to question our assumptions, and what it really means to know *Brother Joseph*.If this conversation helps you see something differently, share your biggest takeaway in the comments.Subscribe to *Let's Get Real* for honest, thoughtful conversations about faith, history, difficult questions, and following Jesus Christ.

This Temple Pattern Is Hiding in Plain Sight Throughout Scripture | Dr. John Thompson | EP63Most Latter-day Saints have seen the Plan of Salvation drawn as circles and lines.Egyptologist Dr. John Thompson argues this may be why we’ve missed something much bigger.In this episode, he reveals a temple pattern that appears again and again throughout scripture—from Exodus and Isaiah to the teachings of Jesus—and explains why the Plan of Salvation may be less about a diagram of where we go after death and more about the Christ-centered journey God is taking us through right now.But there’s an obvious objection:Are we really discovering a pattern in scripture, or simply reading one into the text?John puts the idea to the test.We explore the Exodus from Egypt, Mount Sinai, the Promised Land, Isaiah, the Sermon on the Mount, the Book of Mormon, and the temple, and ask whether these seemingly different stories actually repeat the same journey back into God's presence.And eventually the conversation becomes much more personal:Where am I on that journey?What is God asking me to do next?If you’ve ever struggled to understand Isaiah, wondered how the temple connects to scripture, or wanted your scripture study to feel less fragmented and more meaningful, this episode may change the way you read.Watch the full conversation and test the pattern for yourself.

What does it actually take for a person to change?Joseph Grenny has spent decades studying human behavior, influence, and transformation. But some of his deepest lessons came when those ideas collided with his own family, including his son’s struggle with heroin addiction and Joseph’s painful realization that knowing how change works did not give him the power to change someone he loved.In this conversation, Joseph explores why repentance is about more than simply wanting to be better or trying harder. He explains the six sources of influence that shape our behavior and connects them to the way God works throughout scripture, through relationships, environments, consequences, truth, accountability, and grace.Drawing from his work with the Other Side Academy, Joseph shares stories of people with long histories of addiction, crime, homelessness, and broken relationships who became dramatically different people. Their experiences reveal why pain is not always the enemy, why agency has to be preserved, and why lasting change often begins with two simple realizations: “I have a problem” and “I need help.”The conversation also explores what this means for families, wards, and the Church. If discipleship is meant to transform us, then Zion cannot just be a place where people hear good advice. It has to be a community where people are known, loved, challenged, supported, and given room to become something new.Joseph’s work ultimately points to a deeply Christian idea: God does not simply command us to change and leave us alone to figure it out. He places us in relationships, covenants, communities, and experiences that can help shape us into the people He knows we can become.

Why did Joseph Smith receive the gold plates on September 22, 1827?Historian Don Bradley began asking that question while reconstructing the timeline surrounding the coming forth of the Book of Mormon. What he found was a striking sequence connecting the events that followed to the Jewish fall festival season.The first aligned with the Feast of Trumpets. The next with the Day of Atonement. Then came the Feast of Tabernacles.Three festivals. Three events. Three for three.As far as Bradley could determine, the pattern had been sitting unnoticed for nearly 200 years.But then the festivals ran out.Bradley kept counting.In this episode of Let’s Get Real, Don Bradley walks Stephen Jones through the historical sources, ancient Israelite traditions, and chronology that led him to one more unexpected connection hiding in the timeline.

Everyone knows the story: Joseph Smith went to a hill and found the gold plates. But historian Don Bradley believes we may have misunderstood what he actually found.In this episode, Don takes a closer look at the objects associated with the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and places them alongside the sacred patterns of ancient Israel.What begins as a familiar story about gold plates starts to look like something much older.From King Josiah to Moses, from the Nephites to Joseph Smith, Don traces a recurring pattern of lost scripture, sacred objects, covenant renewal, and restoration. And the deeper the parallels go, the harder they are to ignore.Was Joseph Smith simply recovering an ancient record?Or was the coming forth of the Book of Mormon part of a much older covenant story happening again?

What if poverty is not only a financial problem, but a spiritual one? President Brian Ashton explains why intelligence is widely distributed, but opportunity is not. He shares how BYU–Pathway Worldwide combines faith, education, practical skills, and employment to help people build lasting self-reliance instead of depending on temporary handouts.     From students surviving on one meal a day to returned missionaries coming home with nowhere to live, this conversation reveals how poverty can limit far more than income. It can suppress hope, confidence, leadership, and divine potential.     President Ashton shares why lasting change requires more than money. It requires opportunity, spiritual identity, education, work, and the belief that every person can become more than their circumstances suggest.

The woman who knew Joseph Smith better than anyone never stopped testifying that he was a prophet. So why has history remembered her almost entirely through controversy? In this episode of Let’s Get Real, historian Don Bradley takes a fresh look at Emma Smith, separating the historical record from the assumptions that have shaped her legacy for generations. Together, we explore some of the biggest questions surrounding Emma’s life: • Why didn’t Emma Smith go west with the Saints? • What did she really believe about Joseph Smith and the Restoration? • How did she navigate the challenge of plural marriage? • Why did she continue to bear a powerful testimony of the Book of Mormon? • What can Emma’s life teach us about faith when we don’t have perfect answers? Rather than reducing Emma to a symbol in modern debates, this conversation reveals a faithful, intelligent, courageous disciple whose story is far more compelling than many realize. Whether you’re wrestling with questions about Church history or simply want to better understand one of the most important women of the Restoration, this conversation offers historical context, empathy, and hope.

For years, many Latter-day Saints have looked at declining activity rates and wondered the same thing:Is the Church failing?In this episode, I sit down with BYU Studies Editor-in-Chief Justin Dyer to examine what the data actually says about retention, religiosity, mental health, and why people leave faith. What we found surprised me.While religious participation has declined dramatically across the United States, the data reveals that Latter-day Saints continue to retain active members at higher rates than nearly every other Christian denomination. The question may not be, “What’s going wrong with the Church?” but rather, “What is happening to religion, community, and identity as a whole?”We discuss the four major groups of people who leave the Church, why many never completely close the door on returning, how politics increasingly shapes religious belief, and what predicts whether someone stays connected to faith over time.We also explore a striking idea found in Doctrine and Covenants Section 1: that God foresaw the challenges of our day and provided guidance for navigating them. According to Justin’s research, the strongest predictor of whether someone remains connected to their faith isn’t simply church attendance or religious habits. It’s whether they consistently experience God in their lives.Whether you are a parent worried about a child who has left the Church, someone wrestling with questions about faith, or simply trying to understand what is happening in our culture, this conversation offers both data and hope.

"I, Nephi . . . ." We’ve all read the beginning of the Book of Mormon. Lehi is warned. Nephi is sent back. Laban is drunk. The story moves fast and feels familiar. But what if we’ve been reading it without understanding the setting it's unfolding in? In this episode, I sit down with church historian and former "ex-Mormon" atheist Don Bradley to explore a clue hiding in plain sight, one that tells us more about the "lost 116 pages" and reframes how we see the Book of Mormon's entire opening sequence - and the book itself. Not by changing its meaning, but by grounding it in its original sacred context. The beginning of the Book of Mormon isn't just happening randomly. It’s taking place during a specific moment in the Jewish calendar, a festival setting that adds layers of clarity to what’s happening and why, refocusing the story from being about Lehi's escape from Jerusalem to being about your own deliverance and the redemption of the world. Once you see it, the timing, the tension, and even the actions of key figures start to come into sharper focus. We don’t just revisit the story. We slow it down, connect the dots, and explore what was there all along. If you’ve ever felt like there’s more going on in the scriptures than what’s on the surface, this conversation will change how you read them. - - - - - - - - - - The Lost 116 Pages: Reconstructing the Book of Mormon's Missing Stories https://www.amazon.com/Lost-116-Pages-Reconstructing-Mormons/dp/158958760X "A Passover Setting for Lehi's Exodus," published in Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Scripture https://interpreterfoundation.org/journal/a-passover-setting-for-lehis-exodus

Most people don't walk away from their faith in a dramatic moment. They don't deconstruct overnight. They slowly stop caring. In this episode of Let’s Get Real, I sit down with David Snell from  @keystonelds   to talk about the quiet threat that is pulling more people away than doubt or hard questions. What happens when your faith was built on other people and they let you down? What do you do when belief stops feeling simple and starts becoming complicated? Why do so many people get stuck right there? We talk about why apathy matters more than controversy, the difference between borrowed belief and personal conviction, and how faith naturally moves through stages of simplicity and complexity. We also break down why testimony is something that must be built over time instead of relying on a single answer. This is not a conversation about easy solutions. It is about what actually holds when things get difficult. If you have ever felt your faith drifting, this episode will help you understand why and what you can do about it.