Forktales

Stephen oversees Baldi Management Group (BMG), an airport concessions and management consulting company that manages restaurants in Reagan National Airport, JFK International Airport and Dulles International Airport. Established in 2008, BMG operates various food and beverage outlets, including franchises like Dunkin’ Donuts, Potbelly, and Smashburger. Stephen is an alumnus of Georgetown University, where he was a Community Scholar and student-athlete. He attributes his success to mentorship and now mentors young people, aiming to provide growth opportunities within his company. As founder-led company, Stephen has formed connections with other DC-based founder-led restaurants like Founding Famers and Timber Pizza as well as with larger national brands. About 15-20% of BMG’s customers are employees from the airport itself. Stephen is a strong advocate of mentorship and helping employees grow and advance within an organization, even if it means the employee leaving the organization for a better opportunity. QUOTES “My commitment to making meaningful connections with people comes from way back then when I was forced to do it, not only because of who I am but my circumstances and I’ve tried to carry that out through my career and my life.” (Stephen) “There’s something different about a founder-led company, because you’ve built it.” (Stephen)“Airports are a wonderful place to work. Once you end up in this ecosystem, it’s hard to walk away.” (Stephen)“(In airports), the passengers are dynamic. We get to meet and connect with them all. We have the privilege of participating in whatever journey people are on every day and the following day, we get a whole new group of people.” (Stephen) “The (airport concessions and restaurant industry) is about an $8 billion a year industry nationally but the industry is controlled by about 20 key companies. It’s a small ecosystem.” (Stephen) “Operating a streetside restaurant versus a restaurant in an airport is a completely different sport. The speed, the requirements, the logistical challenges (of being an in airport), all of our crewmembers have to go through background checks. Unless you’re a serious player, you’re not trying to participate in airports.” (Stephen) “We encourage our crewmembers just to meet people where they are. It may be the 50th time you’ve welcomed someone to our restaurant but it’s the first time you’ve spoken to the person in front of you. You should be additive to their experience and not add additional stress or complications.” (Stephen) “We welcome the chaos. When it’s raining and snowing outside and your flights are delayed, we kind of welcome that because that means we get to hang out with you a little bit longer.” (Stephen) “If I bring in someone as a front line worker who’s pouring coffee, if they’re still pouring coffee in three years, both them and the organization has done something wrong. We want to scale people up.” (Stephen)  TRANSCRIPT 00:01.9900:01.99vigorbrandingHey folks, welcome to Fork Tales, and I’m excited. Today’s guest is Stephen Baldi He’s the founder and president of Baldi Management Group. Baldy Management Group is an airport concessions and management consulting company. It’s a mouthful there. ah Manages concessions in Reagan National Airport, JFK International Airport, and Dulles International Airport. Stephen, welcome to Fork Tales, and thank you so much for joining us.00:25.82Stephen BaldiMichael, thank you for having me. I’m looking forward to the conversation.00:29.01vigorbrandingSo for those that don’t know, all of these are located in the sort of DC Metro, Baltimore or down at DC Metro area, right?00:36.21Stephen BaldiCorrect.00:37.04vigorbrandingYeah.00:37.19Stephen BaldiYeah, even though Philadelphia is my hometown, I’ve been in Washington DC for almost 30 years. um So this is home base for us.00:46.37vigorbrandingyeah Well, you you you know, I have a little trick question because that was going to be my first question. Are you still a Philly sports fan? I mean, do you bleed Eagle Green?00:53.03Stephen Baldiif If you cut me, it would be nothing but green. I live in Washington, DC.00:56.48vigorbrandingOK, beautiful.00:57.88Stephen BaldiMy heart is in Philadelphia.00:59.81vigorbrandingBeautiful, beautiful. Wow. There’s, there’s guys, I don’t even know what they call themselves these days. these’s The commanders, the Washington football club.01:04.91Stephen Baldioh The Washington football team, they’re all.01:05.40vigorbrandingI mean, they’re just, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just, it’s irrelevant. It’s irrelevant.01:10.11Stephen BaldiYeah, Michael, my family would disown me if anything other than my ah zip code changed as far as my hometown affiliation.01:10.06vigorbrandingSo that’s fantastic. Hey, it’s awesome. You got to bring, I had a gentleman come in, uh, from, uh, Oregon last week to speak to a bunch of advertising agencies from North America. We hosted them in Philadelphia and this guy was so excited. He was, he, he, he came from there, but he was Philly through and through. So everything in his presentation tied back to a Philly icon, something about Philadelphia that was iconic. And, you know, ah in our company, we’re,01:44.34vigorbrandingWe’re very proud that we’re an independent advertising agencies. We have an agency called Vigor and an agency called Quench. Vigor’s restaurant branding. Quench is food and beverage marketing. And the whole thing was around independence and how it’s how important it is.01:57.06vigorbrandingAnd he had all these great icons from like Nick Foles to, ah you know, ah Mike Schmidt to the Fanatic to, I mean, Will Smith.02:07.11vigorbrandingI mean, he just went through all the Philadelphia stuff, you know, the Liberty Bell and everything else. and So it was cool. It was cool.02:11.77Stephen Baldium I love it. I’ll tell you an interesting story about Nick Foles. So I had a really good feeling about our Super Bowl run, even though you know Carson Wentz, who was leading as the MVP that year, went down. And the Friday before the Super Bowl, something told me to go online and buy a Nick Foles autograph helmet.02:33.57vigorbrandingWow.02:34.10Stephen BaldiAnd I did. Now, I did not expedite the shipping, Michael. So it was not in my possession on Monday after we had won the Super Bowl. And many of my friends said that helmet’s never going to show up, but it did.02:47.65Stephen BaldiSo I bought it for $99.02:47.77vigorbrandingThat’s awesome.02:49.77Stephen BaldiAnd I can tell you, it’s it’s worth a lot more than that.02:51.92vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Yeah, it’s worth a lot to people in Philadelphia. So it’s fantastic. And the pride of that city runs deep. So alright, so tell us about Baldy enter Management Group and what it does what inspired you to get into the airport concession games. I mean, you started I think in residential property, right?03:06.90Stephen BaldiI did. I started in residential property management in 2002. And I started in airports in 2005. And it was all kind of serendipitous. I had a really ah prickly history before starting in 2002.03:23.22Stephen Baldiat Kettler Management, which managed tax credit properties, but also Class A luxury communities.03:29.04vigorbrandingOkay.03:29.23Stephen BaldiAnd I had a tenant coming to my office. And she said, Steven, I see you engaging with the residents and how you handle issues. And I think you should be doing more. And I thought to myself, like this woman doesn’t know me.03:39.92Stephen BaldiYeah, I just fixed her fireplace. But who are you to come in my office and tell me what I should be doing? And at the time, I was making $22,000 a year with a Georgetown degree. And the job that they wanted me to interview for paid $85,000 a year.03:54.21vigorbrandingwow03:54.39Stephen BaldiSo as you can assume, Michael, goal I took the interview, I got the job. And so for three years, I worked in development for Westfield, which most people know as shopping mall developers, they have an airport division.04:05.82vigorbrandingHmm. Ah.04:07.99Stephen BaldiAnd so I was responsible for the redevelopment of national airport here in Washington, DC from 2005. to 2008. And then I leveraged a relationship with OTG Management, which has a very large presence at Philadelphia International, um into a joint venture relationship and actually launched the company, BMG, in 2008. And two thousand and eight and it’s we’ve not looked back since.04:31.36vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. you know It’s funny. I really i don’t know you. we’re We’re really talking for the first time. I can tell right away, like youre you have a positive attitude, and I can tell you’re engaging. And so I could see how someone would see you in action and be like, hey, you know you you could do more. like You can be a part of something bigger. And it’s obviously what’s happened, which is it’s awesome. I’m a big proponent of attitude. I mean, i I love to know where people went to school. I mean, if you if I interview you, I want to see your brains on the table.04:58.39vigorbrandingBut I really want to know what your personality is like. I want to know about your attitude. I want to know ah how ah how much of a ah person you are that wants to win and be engaging and help people. And it’s ah like it comes through with you right away.05:09.91vigorbrandingAnd that’s ah it’s cool.05:10.18Stephen BaldiI appreciate that.05:11.03vigorbrandingnow it’s it’s05:11.32Stephen BaldiYeah, i’ll I’ll take it back if you if you want me to. So ah back in 1988, I was turning 13 and I begged my mom for a pair of Air Jordan sneakers.05:24.58Stephen BaldiAnd you’ll remember when Gordon’s first came out, ah they were the first shoe over a hundred dollars.05:25.72vigorbrandingOh, yeah.05:29.85vigorbrandingOh, yes, they were.05:30.36Stephen Baldiyeah I grew up in a upper lower class household and it was a stretch for my mom to purchase these shoes.05:31.49vigorbrandingYep.05:37.09vigorbrandingMm hmm.05:38.21Stephen BaldiBut I begged her and I begged her and I begged her and and she ended up buying them for me. And she said, you know, I just want you to be safe. Well, you probably can assume where the story goes. Within like a month of getting these sneakers, I was an attempted robbery, and I acted very violently to defend myself, and it resulted in me getting expelled from the school that I was at.05:59.94Stephen BaldiAnd as a punishment, ah rather than letting me play basketball for the entire summer, my mom forced me to go to the reading math and basketball clinic at Friend Central, which is a very prominent independent school on the main line of Philadelphia.06:14.39vigorbrandingMm hmm.06:14.96Stephen BaldiAnd that decision changed my life. um I went from living in a predominantly all-Black neighborhood to a private school that I was the only Black male in my class.06:25.11vigorbrandingWow.06:25.74Stephen BaldiAnd what it did was it changed my perspective of what was accessible. like I had never seen a computer before.06:31.75vigorbrandingRight.06:32.14Stephen BaldiAnd at this school, there was in a computer lab where we could sit down and navigate things.06:34.40vigorbrandingYeah.06:36.15Stephen BaldiAnd so going to Friends Central, having my mom make that leap of faith changed my trajectory in many ways. I matriculated from there to Georgetown University here in Washington, DC, which is how I got.06:48.20Stephen Baldito Washington DC. So I am a super Philadelphia sports fan, because not only am I from Philly, but Allen Iverson was my classmate at Georgetown University.06:51.93vigorbrandingThat’s awesome.06:55.50vigorbrandingIs that right?06:56.61Stephen BaldiYeah, we were the same class.06:56.89vigorbrandingWow.06:57.61Stephen BaldiAnd so, yeah, very cool.06:58.33vigorbrandingThat’s so cool. Yeah.07:00.38Stephen BaldiAnd so maya my commitment to making meaningful connections with people comes from way back then when I was forced to do it, not only because of who I am, but my circumstances.07:00.74vigorbrandingAI. It’s legendary.07:12.75Stephen BaldiAnd I’ve tried to carry that out through my career and my life.07:15.84vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. what a great That’s great. That’s a great story. you know it’s like It’s funny that on the Air Jordans, at that time, when they came out, and I can follow you on that. i know you You nailed it. You said the first sneaker that was over $100. My dad had ah this like mom and pop retail sporting store. We sold mostly like hockey stuff. We were from Hershey, Pennsylvania.07:35.39vigorbrandingAnd I was working in a store in in Camp Hill and outside of Hershey. It’s up in the West Shore, they call it. Anyway, long story short, I was in the mall and we sold some sneakers and the Air Jordans came out and we had them on the wall.07:48.37vigorbrandingAnd it was like, it was insane. $100 for a pair of sneakers.07:52.08Stephen BaldiYeah.07:52.28vigorbrandingAnd I mean, like, whereas I’ll say the average then was probably like on the high end was probably like 50, 55.07:57.40Stephen BaldiYeah, for sure.07:58.58vigorbrandingAnd this went right to 100. And it was funny, my dad, maybe that’s where I started learning about, and I really did learn a lot about marketing, working in retail, because you have to talk to people, you have to sell. And I think that’s the most important skill a person can learn. Communicating with people and learning how to sell, like, you know, at least present yourself, right? So I put these sneakers at the very top. I said, dad, you know what? ah I said, everybody wants the Air Jordans. Most people can’t afford them.08:21.42vigorbrandingbut everyone wants to come and look at it. So I always sell them the white, the white, men’s the body they’re like but you know, so for every one Air Jordan, I saw, I used to sell like 30 other pairs of shoes.08:25.49Stephen Baldiah yeah08:30.65vigorbrandingYou know what I mean?08:31.05Stephen BaldiIt’s been up in the store. It’s like a newspaper. People don’t necessarily want just the newspaper, at least the retailer does it, but they come in to buy the newspaper and then they buy the water, the soda, the candy.08:33.13vigorbrandingThat’s right.08:39.73vigorbrandingThat’s right. yeah I lured them in with the Air Jordans. I think we had like five parrot the most. I mean, we couldn’t afford, you know, it’s a little mom pop store.08:46.41Stephen BaldiProbably two sizes.08:47.56vigorbrandingYeah, right. That’s exactly right. So that’s funny. So okay, you talked about sports and and and you know, Philly and all that you you pride yourself on um being a local company and playing in front of the home crowd.08:58.99vigorbrandingTalk a little bit about the the local connection in DC that you have.09:02.34Stephen BaldiYeah, so I’ll tell you, when you fly into most airports, what people don’t automatically see, but being a former developer, I understand that any airport authority, when you land in their airport, they want you to know what city you are in.09:18.24Stephen BaldiSo national brands are extremely important. So you’ll have your Dunkin’ Donuts. You’ll have your Pop-Belly’s, which are ah franchises that we operate.09:22.12vigorbrandingMm hmm.09:25.89Stephen BaldiBut every airport wants you to have a sense of place. So when you fly into Philadelphia Airport, you’ll have a Jim Stakes, because that’s you know historical to that region.09:34.38vigorbrandingYeah.09:34.93Stephen BaldiWhen you fly into National Airport here, or Dallas International, you’ll have your South Blocks, which is an ASE base. com concept here in the DC.09:45.49Stephen BaldiYou’ll have Ben’s Chili Bowl, which has been around since the 60s.09:45.90vigorbrandingMm hmm. Mm hmm.09:49.41Stephen BaldiAnd so we’ve prided ourselves from identifying and connecting with other founder-led brands, because I’m a founder. And nothing against a hired gun.09:56.93vigorbrandingMm hmm.09:58.81Stephen BaldiI know they are often effective at their job. But there’s something different about a founder-led company because you’ve built it.10:06.95vigorbrandingYeah.10:07.27Stephen Baldiit probably has more ah meaning to you behind just the bottom line um results that you drive. It’s personal.10:15.52vigorbrandingYeah.10:15.69Stephen BaldiAnd so we’ve developed very deep relationships with companies like founding farmers, with timber pizza, who are all local based companies here. And we expect to continue to grow it, not just in this region that we’re in, but as we grow into other markets to do the same.10:30.68vigorbrandingYeah, that’s that’s fantastic. And you nailed it. I mean, like, I’m a founder, I’m an entrepreneur. And you know, and ah again, wonderful folks that that work with me, I’m very, very, very lucky. But you know, for for most people, it’s their job, you know, their career, and and hopefully there’s a sense of of a family and a real relationship.10:49.53vigorbrandingBut for me, it’s my life. I mean, i am I am defined personally by this, which is probably pretty shallow.10:51.05Stephen Baldiright10:54.86vigorbrandingI mean, i mean look, um I love my daughters. I’m a dad. I’m ah a husband. I love my family with all my heart, but I feel like I’m defined by my company and the what I’ve built. and and all of that And I just, you know, so again, I don’t know if that’s a bad thing or a good thing or whatever, but it’s just, it’s ah it’s a lot deeper, right?11:11.93vigorbrandingWhen you found something and ah it’s it’s a lot deeper, everyone thinks it has to do with like money and stuff, and it really doesn’t.11:12.49Stephen BaldiRight. For sure.11:17.73vigorbrandingIt’s a it’s really about, you know, sort of like your life’s life’s work. and You know, you know, I get I get the most excitement out of seeing the growth of the folks in the company. ah It’s great to see the brands grow and the companies grow.11:30.42vigorbrandingBut I really get a kick out of of seeing the folks that have been here a long time and and all that. So anyway, that’s just that’s me.11:35.91Stephen Baldiright11:36.26vigorbrandingBut I just I totally I totally concur with what you’re saying as far as the founder led. I mean, that’s that’s fantastic.11:41.40Stephen BaldiYeah, at some point as a founder, you most likely had to put something at risk that meant something to you.11:47.14vigorbrandingYeah.11:47.50Stephen BaldiWhether it’s personal guaranteeing, first leverage to build the company or, you know, having to bail it out because you run into a pandemic, which we all face back in 2020.11:47.75vigorbrandingOh, yeah. Yeah.11:55.18vigorbrandingAll right.11:57.80Stephen Baldium Oftentimes you can’t just walk from that business and matriculate to another W2 position because this is yours. And so I love when I can connect with founders.12:04.69vigorbrandingYeah.12:07.41Stephen BaldiI’ll work with non-founders also, but there’s something unique about the journey we’ve all been on.12:09.54vigorbrandingSure.12:11.88vigorbrandingYeah, absolutely. So let’s let’s talk a little bit. I just so folks know, I mean, what’s really cool about this conversation is I, ah you know, with vigor, we work with restaurant brands, right?12:22.32vigorbrandingSo we’re very familiar with restaurant brands. And you you have brands like Potbelly, Smashburger. You said founding farmers soon to come. ah Timber Pizza, Dunkin, I mean, some some household names.12:33.94vigorbrandingI don’t know if I’m um yeah any ants.12:34.26Stephen BaldiOn the end, don’t forget on the end, this is what else we have.12:35.99vigorbrandingNo, I can’t actually. Yeah, we actually worked on any answers. We have an agency called quench that a branding agency, Food and Beverage, that that actually worked with Auntie Anne’s because they started here in Lancaster.12:40.96Stephen BaldiOkay.12:45.88vigorbrandinghu Yeah, and I got to meet Anne Byler in the beginning.12:45.98Stephen BaldiThey did.12:48.81vigorbrandingSo, Auntie Anne is actually a person and she’s a wonderful lady and It was a really really awesome to meet her and and and what a she was so she’s a very philanthropic lady very very ah ah Generous and very successful very so she’s got a phenomenal story as well. But so yeah, I certainly won’t leave the auntie hands out But you so you have all these great brands um Talk a little bit about I mean, you know, you said somewhere founded by they you know the founders and all that what’s it like to to manage all these different brands and13:18.00Stephen BaldiI’ll tell you, it’s a dynamic environment. Airports are a wonderful place to do business. Again, I share with you briefly how I matriculated into them, but once you end up in this kind of ecosystem, it’s hard to walk away.13:33.35Stephen BaldiWe get the privilege of serving the traveling public every day. And what’s special about that are the passengers are dynamic. There are people who are going on business trips. There are people who are going on vacations. There are people who are going to be celebrated and there are people who are going to, you know,13:51.28Stephen Baldiusher people off into a transition of life. And we get to meet and connect with them all. And so I tell our crew members that we have the privilege of participating in whatever journey people are on every day.14:03.68Stephen BaldiAnd then the following day, we get a whole new group of people coming through.14:06.48vigorbrandingyeah yeah14:07.36Stephen BaldiSo that’s dynamic in the industries are small. I will tell you it’s about a $8 billion industry nationally in the United States, food and beverage and airports.14:14.57vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah.14:19.40Stephen BaldiBut the industry is really controlled by about 20 key companies. And within those 20 companies, you probably have 50 total key players.14:23.32vigorbrandingyeah14:27.50Stephen BaldiAnd so we know each other. you know You typically don’t leave the industry. Your business card may change. So you may go from company to company, but it’s a small ecosystem. And so I’ve enjoyed being in the industry now.14:40.58Stephen Baldi18 years. I started when I was two. ah But it’s a buy it’s been an extraordinary 18 years, except for some of the challenges like COVID. But you know for the people who were able and blessed to push through it, I think we have a different perspective on what we can be and what we should be in the businesses that we lead. To your point,15:00.50Stephen Baldium being defined by your business is not necessarily shallow, but there’s levels, there’s there’s depth to what we do.15:08.62vigorbrandingYeah.15:08.91Stephen BaldiAnd I’ve been fortunate enough to be able to swim in those depths ah for many years.15:14.41vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. We’ll get to COVID in a second, but I want to go back to airports. ah I’ll say, fortunately or unfortunately, I’m a customer. I’m in an airport every single week. So when you’re describing the people you see there, it’s like, yeah.15:21.70Stephen BaldiAwesome.15:24.71vigorbrandingI mean, you know there’s it’s every single walk of life. Everyone seems to have a higher level of stress.15:30.65Stephen Baldiyeah15:30.77vigorbrandingEveryone’s in a hurry, even when they’re not, or even worse, if someone’s really not in a hurry and they’re walking slow in the airport, that can actually be more frustrating and stressful. but ah So how do you how do you deal with that chaos? I mean, you got all these people that are amped up and nervous and they have anxiety or whatever, and then all of a sudden you’ve got to serve them and take them, you know, and represent these great brands and and and actually make the stuff and and in a and a fast time because they’re always running late, even if they’re not, they just think they’re always stressed.15:56.04Stephen BaldiRight.15:59.20vigorbrandingTalk about airport concessions. Talk about that chaos.16:02.08Stephen BaldiYeah, so you meet people where they are. And I will tell you, operating a street-side restaurant versus an airport, it’s a completely different sport.16:09.79vigorbrandingI cannot imagine.16:10.73Stephen BaldiI tell ah these founder-led companies when they’re thinking about matriculating in the airports, I tell them you know it’s like playing high school varsity basketball.16:10.80vigorbrandingyeah16:19.70Stephen BaldiAnd then you get drafted to the and NBA, like the speed, the requirements, you know, we have to go through the logistical um challenges of having every box that comes into your restaurant scan.16:20.40vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. Yeah.16:31.21Stephen BaldiLike Cisco’s not pulling up to our back door and delivering our ground beef for Smashburger.16:31.53vigorbrandingYeah.16:34.05vigorbrandingRight.16:35.85Stephen BaldiLike it’s going through an X-ray, just like your luggage is.16:38.86vigorbrandingYeah.16:39.39Stephen Baldium All of our crew members have to go through a 10 year federal background check.16:44.03vigorbrandingSure.16:44.19Stephen Baldium There’s complexities to the business, which are to our challenge. But to me, it’s also kind of to our benefit, Michael, because it reduces my competition. Because unless you’re a serious player, you’re not trying to participate in airports.16:54.14vigorbrandingMhm.16:56.81Stephen BaldiAnd so for me, understanding those barriers and be able to navigate them are great. But from a day to day operation standpoint, We encourage our crew members just to meet people where they are.17:07.93Stephen Baldium It may be the 50th time you’ve welcomed someone to our restaurant, but it’s the first time you’ve spoken to the person that’s in front of you. And again, you don’t know if they’re going on vacation or they’re going to a celebration of life to send a family member home.17:16.31vigorbrandingright17:22.96Stephen BaldiRegardless, you should be additive to their experience and not adding additional stress or complications. Just try to deliver them fast, friendly, exceptional,17:34.09Stephen Baldiservice because that’s our standard. That is our vision for the company, which is being exceptional is our standard. It’s not something that happens intermittently.17:42.84vigorbrandingAll right.17:44.59Stephen BaldiIt happens all the time. And so we welcome the chaos.17:45.78vigorbrandingYeah.17:48.05Stephen BaldiYou know, when it’s raining and snowing outside, even though your flights are delayed, we kind of welcome that because that means you get to hang out with you a little bit longer.17:54.78vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah.17:55.63Stephen BaldiSo as long as we’re not canceling flights, if they’re just delayed, that’s kind of our sweet spot.18:00.01vigorbrandingThere you go.18:00.65Stephen BaldiSo we welcome it all.18:02.58vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. You know, you you said something really interesting. So as I mentioned, Vigor is our agency that that does branding and marketing for restaurants. I know, and it’s not, you know, it’s common knowledge that turnover and and employees in the restaurant industry is like the biggest hassle, right? and Everyone’s dealing with that that turnover. But you just said something. they They have to go through this long, arduous process to get through. So do you find that you have, I’ll say, maybe better better qualified, better quality,18:32.38vigorbrandingah team members in your restaurants?18:34.64Stephen BaldiI would tell you that our hourly and even our salary leadership ah on some levels, they’re more committed because it is a personal investment to get through the process.18:39.98vigorbrandingMm-hmm.18:45.54Stephen BaldiAnd so, you know, typical food and beverage turnover is anywhere from 100 to 150%. And only ours is closer to like 30.18:51.64vigorbrandingRight.18:54.91vigorbrandingthat’s hey That’s fantastic. I never thought that that would have never dawned on me that that would be ah an unfair advantage. you know It’s funny, like yeah I was telling someone the other day, you know the higher the barrier to entry in business, actually the better the business is because you don’t have just everybody and anybody competing.19:12.66vigorbrandingSo you you have a higher barrier of entry.19:13.25Stephen BaldiCorrect.19:15.58vigorbrandingum And with that, you have you sort of have ah have a capture to a degree ah group of people, right? ah But the one thing that is interesting, I think if I remember correctly, I think there’s like 30%, I’ll say of ah if it’s a Dunkin Donuts on the street corner, 30% of their their ah customers will probably repeat, right?19:35.43vigorbrandingah you You are not, I mean, you know you might have the same business guy that flies every Thursday out to you know wherever,19:37.58Stephen BaldiNo?19:40.80Stephen Baldiwe have We’ll have our Michaels.19:41.81vigorbrandingYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.19:42.16Stephen BaldiWe have our Michaels.19:43.59vigorbrandingI’ll hit your place and at the airport get a coffee on the way out, but that’s it. Yeah, that’s it. So that’s.19:48.43Stephen BaldiI will tell you, though, we do have outside of the the traveling public, we do have recurring customers who are the people who work at the airport. I mean, at National and Dulles Airport, you get anywhere from five thousand to ten thousand employees that are there every day.19:56.97vigorbrandingNo, that makes sense. Sure.20:03.65Stephen BaldiAnd so ah they are also extremely important to us.20:03.75vigorbrandingMm hmm. Hey, they got to eat and drink, right?20:07.86Stephen BaldiThey got to eat and drink and they have to do it fast.20:09.70vigorbrandingRight. That’s right.20:10.84Stephen BaldiWell, we have different incentives to get them in and out, but they are our recurring customers and they’re about 15 to 20 percent of our business.20:15.10vigorbrandingYeah, that makes sense. Hey, going back to the old mall days that I was talking about the sneakers, I sold a lot of sneakers to people that worked in the mall, not many Air Jordans, but a lot of the, you know, a lot of the lower end sneakers.20:22.26Stephen BaldiYeah, for sure.20:27.36vigorbrandingSo, we talked to you hit on earlier and I know we, we inevitably, hopefully one day we, we don’t, and we don’t have to talk about, we always go back and talking about COVID and, uh, you know,20:35.54Stephen BaldiOh, yeah.20:37.21vigorbrandingOne of our companies and our holding company is a company called Varsity. And Varsity does retirement communities around the country, we market retirement companies. Well, that that industry shut down. I mean, no one was going, no one was visiting, and people were sick. It was bad. Restaurants, another one of our our agencies, right? We marketed restaurants. No one was going. It was basically shut down. you know Your hospitality Uh, and your restaurants, I mean, and your travel, I mean, you’re, you’re combining it all and how, talk about that a little bit.21:06.75vigorbrandingI mean, you were hit from both ends.21:07.11Stephen BaldiOh, I had the privilege of double dipping.21:11.81vigorbrandingYeah.21:11.93Stephen BaldiSo we were in hospitality beverage, but we were also in travel.21:12.41vigorbrandingIn turmoil.21:15.47vigorbrandingYeah.21:16.03Stephen BaldiAnd so I remember very specifically on March 11th, 2020, President Trump came on television and he announced a 30-day travel ban to Europe.21:27.16vigorbrandingMm-hmm.21:28.65Stephen BaldiAnd at the time, ah most people only thought about the impact of air traffic travel to Europe, places like London, Paris.21:37.58vigorbrandingright21:38.31Stephen BaldiBut I anticipated that this was really the big moment for our industry.21:43.00vigorbrandingRight.21:43.21Stephen BaldiI know a lot of people associate kind of their aha moment with COVID becoming a significant thing when the NBA shut down and more importantly, when the NCAA tournament shut down.21:53.85Stephen BaldiBut that announcement on March 11th signified for me that things were about to change for my business.21:58.60vigorbrandingYeah.21:58.72Stephen BaldiNow, I didn’t know it was going to be 18 months.22:02.21vigorbrandingRight.22:02.55Stephen Baldium But within about two weeks, we lost 85% of our top line revenue. And so on March 18, we shut the company down for 18 months. um And it was a challenge to what we talked about earlier, where a lot of my identity was tied up in this company that I built.22:20.39Stephen BaldiWell, there was no company to have an identity he tied to. And so for me as a leader, It really pushed me during that time to redefine who I was in that moment and who I was going to aspire to be if we were privileged enough to come out of it. And we did. We’ve come out very strong, stronger than actually we went in. um We actually sold 35% of the business last year to some strategic, but then also some individual investors. And so I’ve had the privilege of surrounding myself where before I was the only voice in the room and now there are many.22:55.69vigorbrandingRight.22:55.77Stephen BaldiAnd it presents some unique challenges, but also some extraordinary opportunities for me to low to learn and grow from other individuals and institutions that have built companies to scale, not all in food and beverage, many not.23:10.17Stephen Baldium But it’s really given me the opportunity to become a better leader um and to take our company into the next five to 10 years of what we will be.23:20.35vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. you know i the the The COVID obviously affected everybody. It affected everybody in different ways. and like For us for a business, it was and it was really interesting in that you know because we have several different agencies in our holding company, it was sort of a little bit of a like a mutual fund where one or two stocks could be really down, but then others can be up. Our CPG agency, Quench,23:40.72vigorbrandingyou know we’ We’re doing we’re doing brands national brands like you know Sunmade Raise and Stark Institute. To me, COVID, to to that to that company and those brands, COVID was like the greatest sampling program in the history of Earth. i mean If you put it in a package back then, it was on a shelf. People bought it. They stuck it in their pantries. They ate it. They bought more of it. i mean They couldn’t get enough of it. i mean It was just ah an insane time.24:01.94vigorbrandingfor those companies. and then the other the The negative side obviously was the restaurants and everything else. i mean It’s a really interesting time. and and you know You said about how you it can define things. the other thing One of the other things we did was we took adversity. We had all these CEOs that were like, what is everyone doing? i mean like you you know This just happened. It was unprecedented. What is everybody else doing? so We thought, well,24:23.89vigorbrandingAll right, we’re not making i mean and and again it’s not we’re not making revenue businesses down, but we still have these relationships. They’re our clients. So what can we do? So it wasn’t my idea, but one of our guys said, hey, let’s create sort of a round table. of that And our agency is called Varsity. So we called it the Varsity Round Table. So we got all these CEOs that were just like,24:41.34vigorbrandingWhat’s everyone doing? And they were able to talk and it was so successful that we did it the next week. And then they talked more and then more and more CEOs jumped in. They weren’t even our clients and became this open source sharing that has now been, we are on about, I think it’s like 250th.24:58.49vigorbrandingroundt We’ve been doing them every week since the first month of COVID.25:04.38Stephen BaldiWow, impressive.25:05.19vigorbrandingAnd what’s done for a company, for us, i mean again we don’t make any money from it. And it wasn’t about that. It was just a place for people to really vent and help. And now we have speakers come in and talk, and everyone’s obviously well beyond COVID.25:16.71vigorbrandingBut it’s really allowed us to be a thought leader and assist these folks. And you know at the end of the day, it’s what it’s all about. And I know a big thing for you is is mentorship, right? I mean, you know talk about giving back. you want you Do you want to talk a little bit about that?25:27.81Stephen BaldiYeah, I’ll talk about that but I’ll also talk similarly to your roundtable so in February of 2020 I had the privilege of joining the organization YPO, which is Young President Organization, which is very similar to what you define there’s 35.25:42.82Stephen Baldi1,000 YPO members globally. And it’s really for business leaders who have decided that they want to walk towards betterment as a person, as a leader, as a family member, as someone contributing to their community in partnership with other leaders.25:58.55Stephen BaldiAnd so I am in the Washington DC Baltimore chapter here ah in the region.25:58.93vigorbrandingMm hmm.26:04.18Stephen BaldiAnd I’m in leadership. And I can tell you that organization was really critical in me navigating everything that I had to go through ah during COVID.26:14.98Stephen BaldiNow, we didn’t we didn’t meet weekly, um but we do meet monthly in a small group of seven to 10 people, and we have forum.26:15.26vigorbrandingSure.26:19.82vigorbrandingMonthly forum.26:22.81Stephen BaldiAnd, oh, there you go.26:22.85vigorbrandingI didn’t know I’m i’m YPO, too. I didn’t know your IPO. Yeah, I’ve been.26:25.92Stephen BaldiYeah!26:26.21vigorbrandingYeah.26:27.01Stephen BaldiSo YDO is really what sustained me during COVID.26:27.03vigorbrandingSo Oh.26:29.86Stephen Baldium And I’m privileged to be on the ladder now in leadership.26:32.72vigorbrandingDo for you.26:35.01Stephen BaldiAnd so, yeah, as far as mentorship, when I started the company, you know it was a priority for me to give opportunity to underrepresented populations. um Now, as I started to grow the company, my focus started to turn inward, Michael, if I’m being honest. And you know the beginning of 2020, it was difficult for anybody to tell me that I wasn’t the shit. I built this company from zero to something much larger than I had ever aspired to as a young person.27:04.34vigorbrandingRight.27:06.68Stephen Baldium But COVID took all of that away.27:08.81vigorbrandingYeah.27:09.14Stephen BaldiAnd so what it reminded me of is that there was a mission that I started this company with. And it was something that I needed to recommit to when we reopened.27:19.90Stephen BaldiAnd so now um we’re really pouring into our crew members um When I hire someone, specifically, let’s take Dunkin Donuts.27:30.76Stephen BaldiIf I bring in someone as a frontline worker that’s pouring coffee, if they’re still pouring coffee for us in three years, both them and the organization has done something wrong.27:34.59vigorbrandingMmhmm.27:41.17Stephen Baldium We want to scale people up. It is not cost effective for us to have people in the same position for multiple years. So if we’re not scaling someone up to take on additional responsibility inside our company and sometimes even outside of our company, then we’ve done something wrong. you know My mentor told me a good leader ah expects or wants people to leave. A great leader expects them to.28:08.64vigorbrandingYeah.28:09.01Stephen BaldiAnd so either they’re leaving the position that we’re hiring them for or they’re leaving to go to another organization. But either way, we have to invest in our hourly crew members because we can’t afford not to.28:20.86vigorbrandingYeah.28:21.76Stephen BaldiAnd so that’s something that we really communicate out and share out. to our community and our organization and people know that we’re gonna invest in them in ways that other companies might not to and we feel like that gives us a competitive advantage and as a leader it makes me feel a good about not only our bottom line results but also the success that we can feel. I have a manager who’s been with us for eight years.28:46.57Stephen BaldiHer name is Marta. And she started as a single unit manager. And now she’s a multi-airport director.28:53.24vigorbrandingawesome.28:53.39Stephen BaldiAnd to see her growth and to understand the impact that that has has had on her family is tremendous. And I want to do that a hundred times over.29:00.50vigorbrandingSure.29:00.79Stephen BaldiAnd I have the privilege of being able to do that as a leader of our company.29:01.01vigorbrandingYeah.29:04.70vigorbrandingand And think of it this way, I mean, and that’s what’s so great about this country, I’ll say is like, you were making whatever $22,000 a year, I think you had free room or board or whatever you were managing, right?29:12.60Stephen BaldiI did.29:13.65vigorbrandingSo you you’re probably like, I’m getting by, this is okay. And look, you and you know, obviously, you’re you’re very well educated, you have a great drive and personality, but you you created a a huge company. And that’s, that’s, that’s really super cool, really super cool.29:25.90Stephen BaldiWell, Michael, I can tell you specifically in that first year, 2002, I made $19,117 and 43 cents. I can tell you that specifically because that W2 still sits on my desk.29:36.80Stephen BaldiI have it framed.29:36.84vigorbrandingYeah, yeah.29:37.68Stephen BaldiI look at it every day just to remind me of where all of this started and where now we’ve grown the company to I’m, I’m extremely proud.29:45.15vigorbrandingYeah. And you know, you mentioned YPO and I’ve been very privileged to be in that organization for, gosh, I think at least 20 some years.29:53.06Stephen BaldiSo you joined when you were 17.29:54.45vigorbrandingYeah, no, but yeah, it’s one of those things, is we you know, it used to kick you out when you’re 50. In fact, I did, I got the rocking chair and showed up at the front door.30:02.59Stephen BaldiOh, there you go.30:03.68vigorbrandingYeah, that was the thing. And then they decided to have YPO Gold, WPO and all that. stuff So I stayed in and now we’re like a forum for life. So my guys, we meet once a month and we are together. ah we A lot of it’s virtual because these guys, a lot of it, we’re retired and stuff.30:15.91vigorbrandingSo um I’m old. I mean, the it’s YPO o Gold, but I always say it’s Silent G, you know, YPO old. So, but it’s a, it was the greatest thing I’ve ever done for me.30:26.29vigorbrandingMaybe a better husband, better father, better businessman, a better employer, better ah a friend. I mean, and I i mean that.30:32.27Stephen Baldiand human30:33.29vigorbrandingYeah. It’s just a better human. And I think a lot of people see it from the outside and think it’s all, it’s a bunch of guys didn’t talk about how many cars they have and where they want vacation. It’s not that at all.30:40.24Stephen BaldiIt’s not that it’s a transformational community, you know, having a high trust network is invaluable.30:40.92vigorbrandingYou know, it’s, you know, it’s a, it is, it is.30:47.41vigorbrandingYep. Yeah. Someone’s got your back, right? You can always pick up that phone and call your, one of your folks and just, they got your back. No, that’s yeah.30:54.39Stephen BaldiAnd it’s nobody, and it’s nobody, nothing, never. And to have that level of confidentiality is special.30:57.03vigorbrandingThat’s right. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, that’s that’s awesome. That’s all good for you. I had no idea. That’s fantastic. um So, but now I’m going to do a little ploy here. You got to go and you should go to Austin this year to the food and beverage round table.31:10.60vigorbrandingI mean, if you can check it out, it’ll be, I think it’s in in January, you know, I’ll probably be speaking there, but you should go.31:14.55Stephen BaldiOK.31:16.84vigorbrandingI mean, you know, I’d love to meet you in person. It’d be fantastic.31:18.67Stephen BaldiYeah, I’d love that.31:18.88vigorbrandingAnyway, so could we do,31:20.42Stephen BaldiMaybe we’ll be celebrating a Phillies World Series by then.31:22.74vigorbrandingOh man, you’re making me nervous. um I hope so. I hope you’re right. I hope you’re right. But our company, we do it we do an annual food and beverage trends report every year. We’ve been doing them for like, jeez, 15, 16 years. And so a lot of times we launched it at the food and beverage round table. So it’s always really cool stuff.31:40.96Stephen BaldiAwesome, send me an invite and I’ll be there.31:41.00vigorbrandingum Yeah. All right. Well, definitely. I’ll make sure you get it after this, after our conversation here. So, okay. When you go to a restaurant, you you have a choice between human interaction or self ordering kiosks. I know that, you know, you guys need to be really ah high speed, efficient and all that. What what do you, what do you prefer?31:58.57Stephen BaldiWell, it depends, right? Deploying technology is a strategy that ah should be done with intention and asking the question, and then what, right?32:12.55Stephen Baldium I will tell you a story. So the first time we experimented with self ordering technology was in 2008 at JFK airport terminal five.32:24.65Stephen BaldiAnd we deployed at the time iPads um at our Dunkin Donuts because we thought, you know, technology is moving in this way and it’s fun and it’s cool, but nobody wants to walk up to a counter and order a coffee by pressing buttons.32:29.75vigorbrandingMm-hmm. Yep.32:39.85vigorbrandingMm-hmm.32:44.46Stephen BaldiYou know, communicating to a cashier, ah medium cream and sugar takes about 15 seconds. When you are forcing someone to press hot coffee, then medium, then sugar, then extra sugar, like that’s just, we found that that was a ah strategy that wasn’t ah successfully deployed at that time.32:58.57vigorbrandingwho33:05.34Stephen Baldinow That was back in 2008. I will say trends have matured since then and so there is an opportunity to have self ordering technology at a place like Dunkin Donuts and people have learned to navigate it quickly. um You have hot buttons for certain high usage items and so I say to people all the time because my friends question me, whenever they see an iPad, they assume that that means that that technology has taken someone’s job. And what I try to educate people on is that you know if you deploy technology in a intentional way, in a smart way, it allows you to redirect33:45.29Stephen Baldiwhat you would have otherwise spent on front of house and the back of house.33:46.57vigorbrandingMm33:49.72Stephen BaldiOr maybe you’re deploying it at a ah leadership level that’s multi-unit capable.33:49.78vigorbrandinghmm.33:55.24Stephen BaldiAnd so it’s not necessarily ah replacing jobs, but allowing savvy business leaders to take that investment and redeploy it in other ways. I will tell you that the benefit is you know technology doesn’t call out. Sometimes you have to reboot the system, but it always upsells. It always asks you if you want a dessert and always ask you if you want to package your burger with fries. And so to be able to grow your top line ticket, ah that’s only going to drive bottom line outcomes, which allows a business owner like me to look at expansion, to go into other cities, to be able to bring other people along with us because the business is growing. And so there’s opportunity beyond just taking someone’s order. And so34:40.31Stephen BaldiTechnology is something you have to look at in parallel kind of decision making. But I enjoy it. There’s some concepts that it resonates more significantly than others. But I think there’s a balance and there needs to be a balance of both going forward. I don’t think we’re ever going to have an industry that is exclusively technology or self ordering driven. um And I think you go in with a bunch of assumptions, you understand how your customers respond to it, and then you be agile enough to adjust appropriately.35:08.96vigorbrandingYeah, I mean, it makes a lot of sense. And i I concur. I mean, you know, I don’t want to wait in a massive line, especially from an airport. But, you know, just ordering, pre-ordering and all that kind of stuff isn’t all that funny either.35:19.32vigorbrandingSo it’s just you with that happy balance. You know, I do like talking to somebody and, you know, because I talk a lot, I guess. But plus, I always ask for some ice in my coffee just a little bit. I don’t want nice coffee.35:27.30Stephen BaldiThere you go.35:27.67vigorbrandingSo it’s a little tough to explain to an iPad, you know, so very soft.35:31.57Stephen BaldiTo drop it into a couple of cubes, yeah.35:32.20vigorbrandingWhoops. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t want to burn my, burn my mouth. So now I know you have at least one daughter, correct?35:38.70Stephen BaldiI’d have two daughters and a son.35:39.87vigorbrandingTwo daughters. right All right. Sorry. There we go.35:41.61Stephen Baldi26, 25, and eight.35:41.75vigorbrandingThis will be great then. Wow. Wow.35:45.67Stephen BaldiI started over, Michael.35:45.74vigorbrandingA little gap here.35:46.59Stephen BaldiI started over.35:47.16vigorbrandingYou had a little gap here.35:48.55Stephen Baldihad I had a couple of gap years.35:48.93vigorbrandingA couple of gap years. i well so I have two daughters, 26 as of last week and coming coming up on 29. The reason I bring up these families is you know we all know we love all our kids the same.36:01.78Stephen BaldiNo, we don’t.36:01.79vigorbrandingBut on any but okay but on any given day on any given day, depending on the phone call, depending on the visit, there’s certainly ones that we like other better than others.36:02.97Stephen BaldiNo, we don’t.36:09.94vigorbrandingMichael Alex, it happens it back and forth all the time, just in case you’re listening. Those are my daughters. um36:14.34Stephen BaldiLove it.36:15.04vigorbrandingso you know, we talked about pot belly, we talked about smash burger, we talked about dunking, we talked about timber, we talked about founding farmers, am I missing any any ends?36:25.21Stephen BaldiThere you go.36:27.03vigorbrandingWhich one?36:27.28Stephen BaldiIt’s the end. Yeah.36:27.84vigorbrandingWhich one’s your favorite? What’s your favorite kid there?36:29.64Stephen BaldiMy favorite. Wow. You’re going to force me to say that.36:33.77vigorbrandingYeah, yeah.36:34.15Stephen BaldiWell, I will tell you, because I don’t know if any of our franchisors are going to listen to this part. I love them all equally, and I am privileged to be able to operate them. I will tell you the one that probably um sits deeply in my soul as a person ah is probably Dunkin’ Donuts.36:55.45vigorbrandingNice.36:55.85Stephen Baldiand And I’ll tell you Dunkin’ Donuts because when I was growing up ah in Southwest Philadelphia off of Cobbs Creek Parkway, I had family that lived out by the airport. And in order to get into that area of the city, you have to travel on Cobbs Creek Parkway.37:11.63Stephen BaldiAnd there’s a Dunkin Donuts on the corner of Cobbs Creek Parkway and I can’t remember the cross street, but it’s been there for close to probably 30 or 40 years. I’m 48 and I can’t remember a time when it wasn’t there. And I remember seeing that Dunkin Donuts and thinking how rich that franchisee must be to have that score.37:30.65Stephen BaldiNow I know that owning a single franchise is not necessarily a path to generational wealth, but it did, that Dunkin Donuts did put in my mind like what was possible.37:40.22vigorbrandingYeah, that’s cool.37:40.70Stephen Baldium And so to be able to be now a 14 year franchisee of that brand, um which is our longest franchise relationship, it’s pretty special.37:46.48vigorbrandingSuper.37:50.20vigorbrandingThat’s cool. And you know, I’ll say this from the, from the branding side of the world. Uh, what a phenomenal job. I mean, Duncan’s been around forever. I mean, at one point time it was getting a little tired. It was sort of just fading in the woodwork.38:01.35vigorbrandingAnd we know, I mean, all these brands, I mean, they come on strong. They’re, they’re always started somewhere. There’s this regional thing. And then they become these big brands and is they, they struggle to stay relevant.38:10.04Stephen BaldiRight?38:12.62vigorbrandingRight. And I think Duncan has just done a remarkable job.38:16.08Stephen BaldiWe have, yeah.38:16.24vigorbrandingof staying relevant i mean from their graphic design from their marketing their branding to their advertising and all the cool stuff they’ve done that you did you did they blew it away they they absolutely did and yep38:22.42Stephen BaldiI mean, we had the best Super Bowl commercial in my opinion. I mean, Ben Affleck and J.Lo, they did their thing. And Mark Wahlberg, it like it was it was a beautiful commercial.38:33.65vigorbrandingYeah, and you know, it just shows like when you have passion for something, and those guys certainly have passion for for for that part of the world and ah from the Boston area. I just think it’s it was exceptional. In fact, ironically, we have at at our holding company level, Pavone Group, we have the longest running, okay, this is no kidding, the longest running Super Bowl commercial voting mechanism called spotbowl.com.38:56.66vigorbrandingSo every year we get38:57.28Stephen BaldiOK.38:59.26vigorbrandingyou know, thousands and thousands and thousands of votes from around the world, and people vote for their favorite Super Bowl commercial as it’s being played, as the game is being played. And then the the national media outlets reach out to us, and then we tell them the results.39:13.08vigorbrandingAnd Dunkin Donuts was was certainly a stellar winner.39:13.26Stephen BaldiOK.39:16.02Stephen BaldiIt was and had to be at the top.39:17.26vigorbrandingYeah, it was awesome.39:17.88Stephen BaldiCome on out. Tell me Michael it was at the top.39:19.04vigorbrandingYeah, yeah. It was, well, I’m looking over here at my guy that runs it. it was It was the top one. Yeah, it was, it definitely was.39:24.42Stephen BaldiIt was, it I thought it was.39:25.10vigorbrandingOh, yeah, yeah, yeah.39:25.89Stephen BaldiThere you go. Thank you for, thank you for phoning your friend and getting confirmation.39:26.59vigorbrandingIt was it was awesome.39:29.55Stephen BaldiIt was a pretty special advertising.39:31.41vigorbrandingYeah.39:31.85Stephen BaldiAnd yeah, I didn’t get a chance to order my Duncan jumpsuit, but I’m sure it’s in the mail somewhere.39:36.72vigorbrandingYeah, there you go. there That’s that that everything.39:38.41Stephen BaldiMaybe Duncan corporate will see this and they’ll send me one.39:38.96vigorbrandingAlthough. yeah Yeah, all the merch, everything they did around that was super cool. and the take the outtakes from the39:43.99Stephen BaldiSuper cool.39:46.35vigorbrandingyou know It’s funny too because when it comes to this marketing stuff, like it used to be just a TV spot. and The reason I looked over to ask Dave, Dave’s the guy you spoke to. He’s the one that that kind of heads up this podcast. He’s also the one that really runs Spopple. We’ve been doing this so long that In the beginning, we didn’t know anything.40:03.48vigorbrandingIn other words, they would the game it was all about the game. The game was played. And then people realized, well, people love the commercials. So we never knew, like like you and everybody else, we just sit there and watch the game, cut the commercial. Oh, it’s a commercial for fill in the blank.40:15.61vigorbrandingNow, they release the commercials to us ahead of time.40:15.73Stephen BaldiYeah.40:18.45vigorbrandingThey tell us what it’s about. They send us outtakes. They give us information. Because they realize it, because it’s a couple million dollars for 30 seconds, that they need to get as much juice out of the you know squeeze as much juice out of this as possible so they want to know they put stuff online they do teasers and it’s it’s turned into a an event unto itself and uh we’re really proud to have been a part of it so it’s kind of funny that you brought that up that’s cool stuff all40:39.58Stephen BaldiYeah. Now I will tell you my all time favorite Super Bowl commercial.40:44.35vigorbrandingright uh40:45.67Stephen BaldiNow I remember the star, but I don’t even remember the brand.40:49.95vigorbranding-oh40:50.06Stephen BaldiRemember the the commercial with the kid and the Star Wars mask and he was going around zapping things and he went and he zapped the car and the car started.40:55.24vigorbrandingVolkswagen. Yeah. Yeah.40:58.28Stephen BaldiThat was my all-time favorite more commercial.40:58.46vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s great. Yeah. That was ah that was a Volkswagen spot. That was a fantastic spot.41:03.91Stephen BaldiFantastic commercial.41:03.93vigorbrandingIt was a fantastic. You know, I’ll i’ll tell you mine next. i’m I’m a simp and I, you know, ah the Budweiser commercials and41:11.83Stephen BaldiOh yeah.41:13.17vigorbrandingThere was one though in particular where the guy, you know, he raises these horses and it goes on to be a Clydesdale and it it takes off and the horse leaves and there’s a parade. And I almost get choked up thinking about it.41:24.28vigorbrandingIt was so well done. There’s a parade, the guy standing there to parade and the horse sees him, breaks away, chases him down on the road. Oh my gosh. It was, it was, I had to do a live TV commercial. I had to do a live segment on the news about the the best TV spot and and they they, you know, they played it and I wasn’t expecting them to play it.41:40.60vigorbrandingI’m like, I had tears going down my face.41:42.56Stephen BaldiOh, you got emotional.41:42.51vigorbrandingI’m like, That’s my favorite.41:43.64Stephen BaldiOh, look at you.41:45.41vigorbrandingI still get emotional. i think but i think it I think it was the best all-time i mean story. It was just cute. so anyway That’s right, man.41:50.70Stephen BaldiAnd the best story always wins, Michael. Best story always wins.41:53.25vigorbrandingThat’s right. right yeah Yeah, you know, we always tell people a brand is a promise, ah but you have to tell a story. You have to draw a motion, make them laugh, make them cry, make them feel something about your brand. And that’s how you break through. And it’s always important, you know, a lot of times clients will say stuff, um you know, hey we just want to sell more, we got to do this, we got to do that. And and really it comes down to ah the fact that you’ve you got to do great creative to break through to get people’s attention.42:19.09vigorbrandingSo, well, I have a couple more questions for you and I want to hit them for sure.42:21.03Stephen BaldiOkay.42:22.25vigorbrandingSo now look, ah we talked about the airports you’re in, in the in the in the greater DC area, some of the most, I mean, they’re they’re busy, they’re they’re important, they’re huge. Other airports, I mean, you have great concessions in those airports.42:34.37vigorbrandingOther airports that you think have great concessions in the country?42:37.16Stephen BaldiYeah, I will tell you, Atlanta, one of the busiest airports in the world, definitely in this country.42:42.95vigorbrandingOh yeah, oh yeah. yeah42:45.86Stephen Baldium And then Houston, Orlando, Chicago, Charlotte, these are all markets that we kind of look at.42:49.80vigorbrandingMm hmm. Oh yeah.42:54.54vigorbrandingMassive hubs.42:56.51Stephen Baldium It’s important for us to be in high demand airport systems, because you never know how the world’s going to,43:02.80vigorbrandingYeah.43:05.21Stephen Baldirespond. And Morgan Hausl is one of the people who I look to for kind of strategic direction.43:12.04vigorbrandingMm hmm.43:13.49Stephen BaldiI’m thinking about my business. And one thing he always says is that as a business leader, if you’re only planning for the risk and threats that you can predict, you’re probably missing the biggest one.43:24.90vigorbrandingOh, yeah.43:25.41Stephen Baldium And so how we kind of shelter ourselves from that is we go into high demand markets. So even if an airline, a legacy airline like an American or United or a Delta or a Southwest ah decides that they no longer want to operate in that market, there’ll be another legacy carrier chomping at the bit together.43:44.09vigorbrandingSure.43:44.40Stephen BaldiAnd so that’s one of our strategy when we’re looking to grow nationally is to look at high demand airport markets.43:44.77vigorbrandingSure. Mm hmm.43:51.29Stephen BaldiAnd those are just a few that I named.43:53.58vigorbrandingI’m a big fan of Morgan has effect. We have him speaking at our, at our YPO. He’s, he’s one of, I think he might even be next month’s speaker. So I’m really, really, are you really, that’s all his book.44:00.64Stephen Baldiah We’re bringing them in on the 13th of November. Yeah.44:04.00vigorbrandingHis book’s incredible. Incredible. I made my daughter’s read it. So, um, what’s next for balding management group. And mean we talked about in other airports. What’s, what’s next for you? What’s what’s your vision? Where are you were are you hoping to go?44:13.26Stephen Baldimy My vision is to grow the tent and plant trees that I may never even know their shade, um because that’s when I think a community and when a business is thriving is when you’re willing to do things that you might not be able to see to fruition. And so we’re trying to build a company, not trying, we are building a company that will rise the tide for all the boats. I want to create another 20, 25 stories just like mine.44:41.46vigorbrandingYeah.44:41.62Stephen Baldium I can invest and grow my company so that it’s beneficial and creates generational wealth for me, but I also have the opportunity to listen to the individuals whose stories might not necessarily be taken to the top because they’re not fully formed or well articulated.44:59.34Stephen BaldiI try to look for those people, because I was once that person.45:00.66vigorbrandingyeah45:02.15Stephen BaldiI was the property manager in the office, and Cynthia Garber came and tapped me on the shoulder, which she did not have to do.45:02.50vigorbrandingyep45:08.96Stephen BaldiAnd so I’m trying to identify those voices in our companies, the people in leadership, but also the people who we don’t necessarily identify with immediately, because a lot of our workforce our ESL where English is a second language.45:24.24Stephen BaldiAnd so verbal communication is a challenge, but I don’t want that to get in the way of us knowing or identifying the next star in our organization.45:24.69vigorbrandingYeah. Yep.45:33.22Stephen BaldiSo we’re doing things to kind of bridge the gap between ah those verbal communication kind of challenges so that every voice that’s in our organization can be heard because listen.45:44.32Stephen BaldiI won’t pour a cup of coffee or flip a burger or roll a pretzel today, but that’s how our business runs. And so I want to give opportunity and visibility to those individuals in a very intentional way.45:53.22vigorbrandingSure.45:59.67Stephen BaldiSo that’s what’s next ah for the company. And I think if you know you pay attention to the pennies and the nickels, the dollars make sense. And I believe if you focus on organizationally, the people who may be at the bottom of the ladder, you’ll grow the tent and the business in a way where there’s more opportunity created for everyone who’s valuable.46:20.08Stephen BaldiAnd so that’s what I’m committed to, Michael.46:21.72vigorbrandingFantastic. a Question. Have you ever, have you ever spoke to the woman who tapped you on the shoulder? Have you ever told her?46:27.38Stephen Baldii I mention Cynthia Garber every time I get the yeah opportunity to share how she interceded in my life.46:30.01vigorbrandingYeah.46:33.70Stephen BaldiAnd we text probably once or twice a year, but she knows how important she is to me.46:36.60vigorbrandingOh, good. That’s awesome.46:39.09Stephen Baldium We haven’t seen each other in person probably 10 years, but I tell her story every time I speak about my journey because it was instrumental.46:44.19vigorbrandingThat’s awesome.46:47.22Stephen BaldiSo she’s aware.46:47.33vigorbrandingHey, that’s got to get you to pay yeah pay it forward, pay it back. And you got to make sure that you yeah you acknowledge the folks that helped you get there.46:51.02Stephen Baldiand of pay for46:54.07vigorbrandingThat’s, that’s huge.46:54.84Stephen BaldiAnd you know what’s remarkable, Michael, over the 18 years that I’ve been in the business, 16 years leading this company, every now and then I’ll get a text message or I’ll get a direct ah message on LinkedIn of someone who worked for our organization and matriculated somewhere else.47:11.24Stephen BaldiAnd I’ve lost contact with, and they’ve done the same for me.47:12.80vigorbrandinghere47:14.06Stephen BaldiSo I know how special it is.47:15.49vigorbrandingThat’s cool.47:15.94Stephen BaldiAnd so whenever I get the opportunity, I try to tell people how they’ve impacted my life.47:16.98vigorbrandingYeah.47:19.90vigorbrandingVery cool. well Stephen, I have one one last question. You’ve been phenomenal by the way. I can talk for you for hours. You’re you’re awesome. ah One last question. All right. And can’t you can’t pick pot belly or one of your, you can’t pick one of your brands, but if you had one final meal, what would you eat and why?47:35.33Stephen BaldiOh, this is the easy, this is the easy.47:36.24vigorbrandingOh, good. All right. Sometimes people struggle with this. so47:38.51Stephen BaldiNo, it’s not a struggle. Michael, I’m from Philadelphia. If I gave any answer other than a gym steak with whizzing American, with fried onions, hot peppers, pickles, and ketchup, I would be doing my city a disservice.47:42.03vigorbrandingYeah. Okay. Oh, nice.47:52.46vigorbrandingThere you go. That’s good.47:53.31Stephen BaldiSo that’s what it would be.47:53.56vigorbrandingGood. Great. ah Great answer. Great answer. It’s funny, you know, I, yeah, come on, man.47:56.67Stephen BaldiNorth and South, if you haven’t been, you should go the next time you’re in Philadelphia.48:00.24vigorbrandingI’ve been, I had a gym.48:01.51Stephen BaldiI’m not talking to you, I’m talking to your audience.48:02.84vigorbrandingand Okay. I was going to say, I had a gym stick last week and I’m not making that up. We had, I don’t know if I mentioned, but we had, uh, brought in agencies, independent agencies, all from all around North America, i guys from Puerto Rico, Mexico, Canada, all over the continental U S come to Philadelphia.48:19.70vigorbrandingand during happy. We took them to dinners. We took them. We treated them right. We showed them the city independence and all that stuff. But when we had the happy hour at my offices, I had pats and I had gyms and we had little little forks and we did a cheesesteak sampling program.48:32.46vigorbrandingYou know, yeah, they you you do know who won.48:32.82Stephen BaldiOh, and I know who won.48:35.35vigorbrandingSo I know, you know, I know, you know, hey, I’ll throw another one out there.48:36.36Stephen BaldiI won’t make you name it, but I know, I know who won.48:41.02vigorbrandingPat or Tony Luke’s down on Oregon Avenue.48:42.86Stephen BaldiOh, he looks great.48:43.85vigorbrandingThe original.48:44.04Stephen BaldiDe La Sandro’s Mama’s Pizzeria on Belmont Avenue.48:44.87vigorbrandingOh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. tell sound good You know, you you know.48:48.67Stephen BaldiI haven’t lived in the city before the years, but it’s still, I know where to go.48:48.76vigorbrandingYeah, man. Yeah, you know, those, those, those are legacy places, you know, and and yeah, it’s all good, all good.48:54.82Stephen BaldiFor sure.48:56.68vigorbrandingIn fact, you know what, that’ll be my happy meal. The Phillies will be in the playoffs and I do, I slide down into and get a cheesesteak before the game. It’s a, it’s a part of the whole shtick. So I’m excited about it.49:04.48Stephen BaldiAnd you also have to get a wild, wild fruit punch. Come on now.49:06.31vigorbrandingOh, there you go.49:07.00Stephen BaldiYou gotta round it out.49:07.01vigorbrandingThere you go. Yeah, that’s, that’s that’s funny. Well, Steven, it was fantastic. I really appreciate your time. Uh, and it was wonderful talking to you.49:14.87Stephen BaldiI appreciate the invitation. And listen, good luck with the rest of your forktails going forward. It seems like you’ve had an incredible run with the amount of episodes that you’ve already had. And I hope you you know multiply that by 10, if that is your intention and desire.49:27.00vigorbrandingThanks. That’s awesome. Appreciate you.vigorbrandin00:01.99vigorbrandingHey folks, welcome to Fork Tales, and I’m excited. Today’s guest is Stephen Baldy. He’s the founder and president of Baldy Management Group. Baldy Management Group is an airport concessions and management consulting company. It’s a mouthful there. ah Manages concessions in Reagan National Airport, JFK International Airport, and Dulles International Airport. ah Stephen, welcome to Fork Tales, and thank you so much for joining us.00:25.82Stephen BaldiMichael, thank you for having me. I’m looking forward to the conversation.00:29.01vigorbrandingSo for those that don’t know, all of these are located in the sort of DC Metro, Baltimore or down at DC Metro area, right?00:36.21Stephen BaldiCorrect.00:37.04vigorbrandingYeah.00:37.19Stephen BaldiYeah, even though Philadelphia is my hometown, I’ve been in Washington DC for almost 30 years. um So this is home base for us.00:46.37vigorbrandingyeah Well, you you you know, I have a little trick question because that was going to be my first question. Are you still a Philly sports fan? I mean, do you bleed Eagle Green?00:53.03Stephen Baldiif If you cut me, it would be nothing but green. I live in Washington, DC.00:56.48vigorbrandingOK, beautiful.00:57.88Stephen BaldiMy heart is in Philadelphia.00:59.81vigorbrandingBeautiful, beautiful. Wow. There’s, there’s guys, I don’t even know what they call themselves these days. these’s The commanders, the Washington football club.01:04.91Stephen Baldioh The Washington football team, they’re all.01:05.40vigorbrandingI mean, they’re just, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just, it’s irrelevant. It’s irrelevant.01:10.11Stephen BaldiYeah, Michael, my family would disown me if anything other than my ah zip code changed as far as my hometown affiliation.01:10.06vigorbrandingSo that’s fantastic. Hey, it’s awesome. You got to bring, I had a gentleman come in, uh, from, uh, Oregon last week to speak to a bunch of advertising agencies from North America. We hosted them in Philadelphia and this guy was so excited. He was, he, he, he came from there, but he was Philly through and through. So everything in his presentation tied back to a Philly icon, something about Philadelphia that was iconic. And, you know, ah in our company, we’re,01:44.34vigorbrandingWe’re very proud that we’re an independent advertising agencies. We have an agency called Vigor and an agency called Quench. Vigor’s restaurant branding. Quench is food and beverage marketing. And the whole thing was around independence and how it’s how important it is.01:57.06vigorbrandingAnd he had all these great icons from like Nick Foles to, ah you know, ah Mike Schmidt to the Fanatic to, I mean, Will Smith.02:07.11vigorbrandingI mean, he just went through all the Philadelphia stuff, you know, the Liberty Bell and everything else. and So it was cool. It was cool.02:11.77Stephen Baldium I love it. I’ll tell you an interesting story about Nick Foles. So I had a really good feeling about our Super Bowl run, even though you know Carson Wentz, who was leading as the MVP that year, went down. And the Friday before the Super Bowl, something told me to go online and buy a Nick Foles autograph helmet.02:33.57vigorbrandingWow.02:34.10Stephen BaldiAnd I did. Now, I did not expedite the shipping, Michael. So it was not in my possession on Monday after we had won the Super Bowl. And many of my friends said that helmet’s never going to show up, but it did.02:47.65Stephen BaldiSo I bought it for $99.02:47.77vigorbrandingThat’s awesome.02:49.77Stephen BaldiAnd I can tell you, it’s it’s worth a lot more than that.02:51.92vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Yeah, it’s worth a lot to people in Philadelphia. So it’s fantastic. And the pride of that city runs deep. So alright, so tell us about Baldy enter Management Group and what it does what inspired you to get into the airport concession games. I mean, you started I think in residential property, right?03:06.90Stephen BaldiI did. I started in residential property management in 2002. And I started in airports in 2005. And it was all kind of serendipitous. I had a really ah prickly history before starting in 2002.03:23.22Stephen Baldiat Kettler Management, which managed tax credit properties, but also Class A luxury communities.03:29.04vigorbrandingOkay.03:29.23Stephen BaldiAnd I had a tenant coming to my office. And she said, Steven, I see you engaging with the residents and how you handle issues. And I think you should be doing more. And I thought to myself, like this woman doesn’t know me.03:39.92Stephen BaldiYeah, I just fixed her fireplace. But who are you to come in my office and tell me what I should be doing? And at the time, I was making $22,000 a year with a Georgetown degree. And the job that they wanted me to interview for paid $85,000 a year.03:54.21vigorbrandingwow03:54.39Stephen BaldiSo as you can assume, Michael, goal I took the interview, I got the job. And so for three years, I worked in development for Westfield, which most people know as shopping mall developers, they have an airport division.04:05.82vigorbrandingHmm. Ah.04:07.99Stephen BaldiAnd so I was responsible for the redevelopment of national airport here in Washington, DC from 2005. to 2008. And then I leveraged a relationship with OTG Management, which has a very large presence at Philadelphia International, um into a joint venture relationship and actually launched the company, BMG, in 2008. And two thousand and eight and it’s we’ve not looked back since.04:31.36vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. you know It’s funny. I really i don’t know you. we’re We’re really talking for the first time. I can tell right away, like youre you have a positive attitude, and I can tell you’re engaging. And so I could see how someone would see you in action and be like, hey, you know you you could do more. like You can be a part of something bigger. And it’s obviously what’s happened, which is it’s awesome. I’m a big proponent of attitude. I mean, i I love to know where people went to school. I mean, if you if I interview you, I want to see your brains on the table.04:58.39vigorbrandingBut I really want to know what your personality is like. I want to know about your attitude. I want to know ah how ah how much of a ah person you are that wants to win and be engaging and help people. And it’s ah like it comes through with you right away.05:09.91vigorbrandingAnd that’s ah it’s cool.05:10.18Stephen BaldiI appreciate that.05:11.03vigorbrandingnow it’s it’s05:11.32Stephen BaldiYeah, i’ll I’ll take it back if you if you want me to. So ah back in 1988, I was turning 13 and I begged my mom for a pair of Air Jordan sneakers.05:24.58Stephen BaldiAnd you’ll remember when Gordon’s first came out, ah they were the first shoe over a hundred dollars.05:25.72vigorbrandingOh, yeah.05:29.85vigorbrandingOh, yes, they were.05:30.36Stephen Baldiyeah I grew up in a upper lower class household and it was a stretch for my mom to purchase these shoes.05:31.49vigorbrandingYep.05:37.09vigorbrandingMm hmm.05:38.21Stephen BaldiBut I begged her and I begged her and I begged her and and she ended up buying them for me. And she said, you know, I just want you to be safe. Well, you probably can assume where the story goes. Within like a month of getting these sneakers, I was an attempted robbery, and I acted very violently to defend myself, and it resulted in me getting expelled from the school that I was at.05:59.94Stephen BaldiAnd as a punishment, ah rather than letting me play basketball for the entire summer, my mom forced me to go to the reading math and basketball clinic at Friend Central, which is a very prominent independent school on the main line of Philadelphia.06:14.39vigorbrandingMm hmm.06:14.96Stephen BaldiAnd that decision changed my life. um I went from living in a predominantly all-Black neighborhood to a private school that I was the only Black male in my class.06:25.11vigorbrandingWow.06:25.74Stephen BaldiAnd what it did was it changed my perspective of what was accessible. like I had never seen a computer before.06:31.75vigorbrandingRight.06:32.14Stephen BaldiAnd at this school, there was in a computer lab where we could sit down and navigate things.06:34.40vigorbrandingYeah.06:36.15Stephen BaldiAnd so going to Friends Central, having my mom make that leap of faith changed my trajectory in many ways. I matriculated from there to Georgetown University here in Washington, DC, which is how I got.06:48.20Stephen Baldito Washington DC. So I am a super Philadelphia sports fan, because not only am I from Philly, but Allen Iverson was my classmate at Georgetown University.06:51.93vigorbrandingThat’s awesome.06:55.50vigorbrandingIs that right?06:56.61Stephen BaldiYeah, we were the same class.06:56.89vigorbrandingWow.06:57.61Stephen BaldiAnd so, yeah, very cool.06:58.33vigorbrandingThat’s so cool. Yeah.07:00.38Stephen BaldiAnd so maya my commitment to making meaningful connections with people comes from way back then when I was forced to do it, not only because of who I am, but my circumstances.07:00.74vigorbrandingAI. It’s legendary.07:12.75Stephen BaldiAnd I’ve tried to carry that out through my career and my life.07:15.84vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. what a great That’s great. That’s a great story. you know it’s like It’s funny that on the Air Jordans, at that time, when they came out, and I can follow you on that. i know you You nailed it. You said the first sneaker that was over $100. My dad had ah this like mom and pop retail sporting store. We sold mostly like hockey stuff. We were from Hershey, Pennsylvania.07:35.39vigorbrandingAnd I was working in a store in in Camp Hill and outside of Hershey. It’s up in the West Shore, they call it. Anyway, long story short, I was in the mall and we sold some sneakers and the Air Jordans came out and we had them on the wall.07:48.37vigorbrandingAnd it was like, it was insane. $100 for a pair of sneakers.07:52.08Stephen BaldiYeah.07:52.28vigorbrandingAnd I mean, like, whereas I’ll say the average then was probably like on the high end was probably like 50, 55.07:57.40Stephen BaldiYeah, for sure.07:58.58vigorbrandingAnd this went right to 100. And it was funny, my dad, maybe that’s where I started learning about, and I really did learn a lot about marketing, working in retail, because you have to talk to people, you have to sell. And I think that’s the most important skill a person can learn. Communicating with people and learning how to sell, like, you know, at least present yourself, right? So I put these sneakers at the very top. I said, dad, you know what? ah I said, everybody wants the Air Jordans. Most people can’t afford them.08:21.42vigorbrandingbut everyone wants to come and look at it. So I always sell them the white, the white, men’s the body they’re like but you know, so for every one Air Jordan, I saw, I used to sell like 30 other pairs of shoes.08:25.49Stephen Baldiah yeah08:30.65vigorbrandingYou know what I mean?08:31.05Stephen BaldiIt’s been up in the store. It’s like a newspaper. People don’t necessarily want just the newspaper, at least the retailer does it, but they come in to buy the newspaper and then they buy the water, the soda, the candy.08:33.13vigorbrandingThat’s right.08:39.73vigorbrandingThat’s right. yeah I lured them in with the Air Jordans. I think we had like five parrot the most. I mean, we couldn’t afford, you know, it’s a little mom pop store.08:46.41Stephen BaldiProbably two sizes.08:47.56vigorbrandingYeah, right. That’s exactly right. So that’s funny. So okay, you talked about sports and and and you know, Philly and all that you you pride yourself on um being a local company and playing in front of the home crowd.08:58.99vigorbrandingTalk a little bit about the the local connection in DC that you have.09:02.34Stephen BaldiYeah, so I’ll tell you, when you fly into most airports, what people don’t automatically see, but being a former developer, I understand that any airport authority, when you land in their airport, they want you to know what city you are in.09:18.24Stephen BaldiSo national brands are extremely important. So you’ll have your Dunkin’ Donuts. You’ll have your Pop-Belly’s, which are ah franchises that we operate.09:22.12vigorbrandingMm hmm.09:25.89Stephen BaldiBut every airport wants you to have a sense of place. So when you fly into Philadelphia Airport, you’ll have a Jim Stakes, because that’s you know historical to that region.09:34.38vigorbrandingYeah.09:34.93Stephen BaldiWhen you fly into National Airport here, or Dallas International, you’ll have your South Blocks, which is an ASE base. com concept here in the DC.09:45.49Stephen BaldiYou’ll have Ben’s Chili Bowl, which has been around since the 60s.09:45.90vigorbrandingMm hmm. Mm hmm.09:49.41Stephen BaldiAnd so we’ve prided ourselves from identifying and connecting with other founder-led brands, because I’m a founder. And nothing against a hired gun.09:56.93vigorbrandingMm hmm.09:58.81Stephen BaldiI know they are often effective at their job. But there’s something different about a founder-led company because you’ve built it.10:06.95vigorbrandingYeah.10:07.27Stephen Baldiit probably has more ah meaning to you behind just the bottom line um results that you drive. It’s personal.10:15.52vigorbrandingYeah.10:15.69Stephen BaldiAnd so we’ve developed very deep relationships with companies like founding farmers, with timber pizza, who are all local based companies here. And we expect to continue to grow it, not just in this region that we’re in, but as we grow into other markets to do the same.10:30.68vigorbrandingYeah, that’s that’s fantastic. And you nailed it. I mean, like, I’m a founder, I’m an entrepreneur. And you know, and ah again, wonderful folks that that work with me, I’m very, very, very lucky. But you know, for for most people, it’s their job, you know, their career, and and hopefully there’s a sense of of a family and a real relationship.10:49.53vigorbrandingBut for me, it’s my life. I mean, i am I am defined personally by this, which is probably pretty shallow.10:51.05Stephen Baldiright10:54.86vigorbrandingI mean, i mean look, um I love my daughters. I’m a dad. I’m ah a husband. I love my family with all my heart, but I feel like I’m defined by my company and the what I’ve built. and and all of that And I just, you know, so again, I don’t know if that’s a bad thing or a good thing or whatever, but it’s just, it’s ah it’s a lot deeper, right?11:11.93vigorbrandingWhen you found something and ah it’s it’s a lot deeper, everyone thinks it has to do with like money and stuff, and it really doesn’t.11:12.49Stephen BaldiRight. For sure.11:17.73vigorbrandingIt’s a it’s really about, you know, sort of like your life’s life’s work. and You know, you know, I get I get the most excitement out of seeing the growth of the folks in the company. ah It’s great to see the brands grow and the companies grow.11:30.42vigorbrandingBut I really get a kick out of of seeing the folks that have been here a long time and and all that. So anyway, that’s just that’s me.11:35.91Stephen Baldiright11:36.26vigorbrandingBut I just I totally I totally concur with what you’re saying as far as the founder led. I mean, that’s that’s fantastic.11:41.40Stephen BaldiYeah, at some point as a founder, you most likely had to put something at risk that meant something to you.11:47.14vigorbrandingYeah.11:47.50Stephen BaldiWhether it’s personal guaranteeing, first leverage to build the company or, you know, having to bail it out because you run into a pandemic, which we all face back in 2020.11:47.75vigorbrandingOh, yeah. Yeah.11:55.18vigorbrandingAll right.11:57.80Stephen Baldium Oftentimes you can’t just walk from that business and matriculate to another W2 position because this is yours. And so I love when I can connect with founders.12:04.69vigorbrandingYeah.12:07.41Stephen BaldiI’ll work with non-founders also, but there’s something unique about the journey we’ve all been on.12:09.54vigorbrandingSure.12:11.88vigorbrandingYeah, absolutely. So let’s let’s talk a little bit. I just so folks know, I mean, what’s really cool about this conversation is I, ah you know, with vigor, we work with restaurant brands, right?12:22.32vigorbrandingSo we’re very familiar with restaurant brands. And you you have brands like Potbelly, Smashburger. You said founding farmers soon to come. ah Timber Pizza, Dunkin, I mean, some some household names.12:33.94vigorbrandingI don’t know if I’m um yeah any ants.12:34.26Stephen BaldiOn the end, don’t forget on the end, this is what else we have.12:35.99vigorbrandingNo, I can’t actually. Yeah, we actually worked on any answers. We have an agency called quench that a branding agency, Food and Beverage, that that actually worked with Auntie Anne’s because they started here in Lancaster.12:40.96Stephen BaldiOkay.12:45.88vigorbrandinghu Yeah, and I got to meet Anne Byler in the beginning.12:45.98Stephen BaldiThey did.12:48.81vigorbrandingSo, Auntie Anne is actually a person and she’s a wonderful lady and It was a really really awesome to meet her and and and what a she was so she’s a very philanthropic lady very very ah ah Generous and very successful very so she’s got a phenomenal story as well. But so yeah, I certainly won’t leave the auntie hands out But you so you have all these great brands um Talk a little bit about I mean, you know, you said somewhere founded by they you know the founders and all that what’s it like to to manage all these different brands and13:18.00Stephen BaldiI’ll tell you, it’s a dynamic environment. Airports are a wonderful place to do business. Again, I share with you briefly how I matriculated into them, but once you end up in this kind of ecosystem, it’s hard to walk away.13:33.35Stephen BaldiWe get the privilege of serving the traveling public every day. And what’s special about that are the passengers are dynamic. There are people who are going on business trips. There are people who are going on vacations. There are people who are going to be celebrated and there are people who are going to, you know,13:51.28Stephen Baldiusher people off into a transition of life. And we get to meet and connect with them all. And so I tell our crew members that we have the privilege of participating in whatever journey people are on every day.14:03.68Stephen BaldiAnd then the following day, we get a whole new group of people coming through.14:06.48vigorbrandingyeah yeah14:07.36Stephen BaldiSo that’s dynamic in the industries are small. I will tell you it’s about a $8 billion industry nationally in the United States, food and beverage and airports.14:14.57vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah.14:19.40Stephen BaldiBut the industry is really controlled by about 20 key companies. And within those 20 companies, you probably have 50 total key players.14:23.32vigorbrandingyeah14:27.50Stephen BaldiAnd so we know each other. you know You typically don’t leave the industry. Your business card may change. So you may go from company to company, but it’s a small ecosystem. And so I’ve enjoyed being in the industry now.14:40.58Stephen Baldi18 years. I started when I was two. ah But it’s a buy it’s been an extraordinary 18 years, except for some of the challenges like COVID. But you know for the people who were able and blessed to push through it, I think we have a different perspective on what we can be and what we should be in the businesses that we lead. To your point,15:00.50Stephen Baldium being defined by your business is not necessarily shallow, but there’s levels, there’s there’s depth to what we do.15:08.62vigorbrandingYeah.15:08.91Stephen BaldiAnd I’ve been fortunate enough to be able to swim in those depths ah for many years.15:14.41vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. We’ll get to COVID in a second, but I want to go back to airports. ah I’ll say, fortunately or unfortunately, I’m a customer. I’m in an airport every single week. So when you’re describing the people you see there, it’s like, yeah.15:21.70Stephen BaldiAwesome.15:24.71vigorbrandingI mean, you know there’s it’s every single walk of life. Everyone seems to have a higher level of stress.15:30.65Stephen Baldiyeah15:30.77vigorbrandingEveryone’s in a hurry, even when they’re not, or even worse, if someone’s really not in a hurry and they’re walking slow in the airport, that can actually be more frustrating and stressful. but ah So how do you how do you deal with that chaos? I mean, you got all these people that are amped up and nervous and they have anxiety or whatever, and then all of a sudden you’ve got to serve them and take them, you know, and represent these great brands and and and actually make the stuff and and in a and a fast time because they’re always running late, even if they’re not, they just think they’re always stressed.15:56.04Stephen BaldiRight.15:59.20vigorbrandingTalk about airport concessions. Talk about that chaos.16:02.08Stephen BaldiYeah, so you meet people where they are. And I will tell you, operating a street-side restaurant versus an airport, it’s a completely different sport.16:09.79vigorbrandingI cannot imagine.16:10.73Stephen BaldiI tell ah these founder-led companies when they’re thinking about matriculating in the airports, I tell them you know it’s like playing high school varsity basketball.16:10.80vigorbrandingyeah16:19.70Stephen BaldiAnd then you get drafted to the and NBA, like the speed, the requirements, you know, we have to go through the logistical um challenges of having every box that comes into your restaurant scan.16:20.40vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. Yeah.16:31.21Stephen BaldiLike Cisco’s not pulling up to our back door and delivering our ground beef for Smashburger.16:31.53vigorbrandingYeah.16:34.05vigorbrandingRight.16:35.85Stephen BaldiLike it’s going through an X-ray, just like your luggage is.16:38.86vigorbrandingYeah.16:39.39Stephen Baldium All of our crew members have to go through a 10 year federal background check.16:44.03vigorbrandingSure.16:44.19Stephen Baldium There’s complexities to the business, which are to our challenge. But to me, it’s also kind of to our benefit, Michael, because it reduces my competition. Because unless you’re a serious player, you’re not trying to participate in airports.16:54.14vigorbrandingMhm.16:56.81Stephen BaldiAnd so for me, understanding those barriers and be able to navigate them are great. But from a day to day operation standpoint, We encourage our crew members just to meet people where they are.17:07.93Stephen Baldium It may be the 50th time you’ve welcomed someone to our restaurant, but it’s the first time you’ve spoken to the person that’s in front of you. And again, you don’t know if they’re going on vacation or they’re going to a celebration of life to send a family member home.17:16.31vigorbrandingright17:22.96Stephen BaldiRegardless, you should be additive to their experience and not adding additional stress or complications. Just try to deliver them fast, friendly, exceptional,17:34.09Stephen Baldiservice because that’s our standard. That is our vision for the company, which is being exceptional is our standard. It’s not something that happens intermittently.17:42.84vigorbrandingAll right.17:44.59Stephen BaldiIt happens all the time. And so we welcome the chaos.17:45.78vigorbrandingYeah.17:48.05Stephen BaldiYou know, when it’s raining and snowing outside, even though your flights are delayed, we kind of welcome that because that means you get to hang out with you a little bit longer.17:54.78vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah.17:55.63Stephen BaldiSo as long as we’re not canceling flights, if they’re just delayed, that’s kind of our sweet spot.18:00.01vigorbrandingThere you go.18:00.65Stephen BaldiSo we welcome it all.18:02.58vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. You know, you you said something really interesting. So as I mentioned, Vigor is our agency that that does branding and marketing for restaurants. I know, and it’s not, you know, it’s common knowledge that turnover and and employees in the restaurant industry is like the biggest hassle, right? and Everyone’s dealing with that that turnover. But you just said something. they They have to go through this long, arduous process to get through. So do you find that you have, I’ll say, maybe better better qualified, better quality,18:32.38vigorbrandingah team members in your restaurants?18:34.64Stephen BaldiI would tell you that our hourly and even our salary leadership ah on some levels, they’re more committed because it is a personal investment to get through the process.18:39.98vigorbrandingMm-hmm.18:45.54Stephen BaldiAnd so, you know, typical food and beverage turnover is anywhere from 100 to 150%. And only ours is closer to like 30.18:51.64vigorbrandingRight.18:54.91vigorbrandingthat’s hey That’s fantastic. I never thought that that would have never dawned on me that that would be ah an unfair advantage. you know It’s funny, like yeah I was telling someone the other day, you know the higher the barrier to entry in business, actually the better the business is because you don’t have just everybody and anybody competing.19:12.66vigorbrandingSo you you have a higher barrier of entry.19:13.25Stephen BaldiCorrect.19:15.58vigorbrandingum And with that, you have you sort of have ah have a capture to a degree ah group of people, right? ah But the one thing that is interesting, I think if I remember correctly, I think there’s like 30%, I’ll say of ah if it’s a Dunkin Donuts on the street corner, 30% of their their ah customers will probably repeat, right?19:35.43vigorbrandingah you You are not, I mean, you know you might have the same business guy that flies every Thursday out to you know wherever,19:37.58Stephen BaldiNo?19:40.80Stephen Baldiwe have We’ll have our Michaels.19:41.81vigorbrandingYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.19:42.16Stephen BaldiWe have our Michaels.19:43.59vigorbrandingI’ll hit your place and at the airport get a coffee on the way out, but that’s it. Yeah, that’s it. So that’s.19:48.43Stephen BaldiI will tell you, though, we do have outside of the the traveling public, we do have recurring customers who are the people who work at the airport. I mean, at National and Dulles Airport, you get anywhere from five thousand to ten thousand employees that are there every day.19:56.97vigorbrandingNo, that makes sense. Sure.20:03.65Stephen BaldiAnd so ah they are also extremely important to us.20:03.75vigorbrandingMm hmm. Hey, they got to eat and drink, right?20:07.86Stephen BaldiThey got to eat and drink and they have to do it fast.20:09.70vigorbrandingRight. That’s right.20:10.84Stephen BaldiWell, we have different incentives to get them in and out, but they are our recurring customers and they’re about 15 to 20 percent of our business.20:15.10vigorbrandingYeah, that makes sense. Hey, going back to the old mall days that I was talking about the sneakers, I sold a lot of sneakers to people that worked in the mall, not many Air Jordans, but a lot of the, you know, a lot of the lower end sneakers.20:22.26Stephen BaldiYeah, for sure.20:27.36vigorbrandingSo, we talked to you hit on earlier and I know we, we inevitably, hopefully one day we, we don’t, and we don’t have to talk about, we always go back and talking about COVID and, uh, you know,20:35.54Stephen BaldiOh, yeah.20:37.21vigorbrandingOne of our companies and our holding company is a company called Varsity. And Varsity does retirement communities around the country, we market retirement companies. Well, that that industry shut down. I mean, no one was going, no one was visiting, and people were sick. It was bad. Restaurants, another one of our our agencies, right? We marketed restaurants. No one was going. It was basically shut down. you know Your hospitality Uh, and your restaurants, I mean, and your travel, I mean, you’re, you’re combining it all and how, talk about that a little bit.21:06.75vigorbrandingI mean, you were hit from both ends.21:07.11Stephen BaldiOh, I had the privilege of double dipping.21:11.81vigorbrandingYeah.21:11.93Stephen BaldiSo we were in hospitality beverage, but we were also in travel.21:12.41vigorbrandingIn turmoil.21:15.47vigorbrandingYeah.21:16.03Stephen BaldiAnd so I remember very specifically on March 11th, 2020, President Trump came on television and he announced a 30-day travel ban to Europe.21:27.16vigorbrandingMm-hmm.21:28.65Stephen BaldiAnd at the time, ah most people only thought about the impact of air traffic travel to Europe, places like London, Paris.21:37.58vigorbrandingright21:38.31Stephen BaldiBut I anticipated that this was really the big moment for our industry.21:43.00vigorbrandingRight.21:43.21Stephen BaldiI know a lot of people associate kind of their aha moment with COVID becoming a significant thing when the NBA shut down and more importantly, when the NCAA tournament shut down.21:53.85Stephen BaldiBut that announcement on March 11th signified for me that things were about to change for my business.21:58.60vigorbrandingYeah.21:58.72Stephen BaldiNow, I didn’t know it was going to be 18 months.22:02.21vigorbrandingRight.22:02.55Stephen Baldium But within about two weeks, we lost 85% of our top line revenue. And so on March 18, we shut the company down for 18 months. um And it was a challenge to what we talked about earlier, where a lot of my identity was tied up in this company that I built.22:20.39Stephen BaldiWell, there was no company to have an identity he tied to. And so for me as a leader, It really pushed me during that time to redefine who I was in that moment and who I was going to aspire to be if we were privileged enough to come out of it. And we did. We’ve come out very strong, stronger than actually we went in. um We actually sold 35% of the business last year to some strategic, but then also some individual investors. And so I’ve had the privilege of surrounding myself where before I was the only voice in the room and now there are many.22:55.69vigorbrandingRight.22:55.77Stephen BaldiAnd it presents some unique challenges, but also some extraordinary opportunities for me to low to learn and grow from other individuals and institutions that have built companies to scale, not all in food and beverage, many not.23:10.17Stephen Baldium But it’s really given me the opportunity to become a better leader um and to take our company into the next five to 10 years of what we will be.23:20.35vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. you know i the the The COVID obviously affected everybody. It affected everybody in different ways. and like For us for a business, it was and it was really interesting in that you know because we have several different agencies in our holding company, it was sort of a little bit of a like a mutual fund where one or two stocks could be really down, but then others can be up. Our CPG agency, Quench,23:40.72vigorbrandingyou know we’ We’re doing we’re doing brands national brands like you know Sunmade Raise and Stark Institute. To me, COVID, to to that to that company and those brands, COVID was like the greatest sampling program in the history of Earth. i mean If you put it in a package back then, it was on a shelf. People bought it. They stuck it in their pantries. They ate it. They bought more of it. i mean They couldn’t get enough of it. i mean It was just ah an insane time.24:01.94vigorbrandingfor those companies. and then the other the The negative side obviously was the restaurants and everything else. i mean It’s a really interesting time. and and you know You said about how you it can define things. the other thing One of the other things we did was we took adversity. We had all these CEOs that were like, what is everyone doing? i mean like you you know This just happened. It was unprecedented. What is everybody else doing? so We thought, well,24:23.89vigorbrandingAll right, we’re not making i mean and and again it’s not we’re not making revenue businesses down, but we still have these relationships. They’re our clients. So what can we do? So it wasn’t my idea, but one of our guys said, hey, let’s create sort of a round table. of that And our agency is called Varsity. So we called it the Varsity Round Table. So we got all these CEOs that were just like,24:41.34vigorbrandingWhat’s everyone doing? And they were able to talk and it was so successful that we did it the next week. And then they talked more and then more and more CEOs jumped in. They weren’t even our clients and became this open source sharing that has now been, we are on about, I think it’s like 250th.24:58.49vigorbrandingroundt We’ve been doing them every week since the first month of COVID.25:04.38Stephen BaldiWow, impressive.25:05.19vigorbrandingAnd what’s done for a company, for us, i mean again we don’t make any money from it. And it wasn’t about that. It was just a place for people to really vent and help. And now we have speakers come in and talk, and everyone’s obviously well beyond COVID.25:16.71vigorbrandingBut it’s really allowed us to be a thought leader and assist these folks. And you know at the end of the day, it’s what it’s all about. And I know a big thing for you is is mentorship, right? I mean, you know talk about giving back. you want you Do you want to talk a little bit about that?25:27.81Stephen BaldiYeah, I’ll talk about that but I’ll also talk similarly to your roundtable so in February of 2020 I had the privilege of joining the organization YPO, which is Young President Organization, which is very similar to what you define there’s 35.25:42.82Stephen Baldi1,000 YPO members globally. And it’s really for business leaders who have decided that they want to walk towards betterment as a person, as a leader, as a family member, as someone contributing to their community in partnership with other leaders.25:58.55Stephen BaldiAnd so I am in the Washington DC Baltimore chapter here ah in the region.25:58.93vigorbrandingMm hmm.26:04.18Stephen BaldiAnd I’m in leadership. And I can tell you that organization was really critical in me navigating everything that I had to go through ah during COVID.26:14.98Stephen BaldiNow, we didn’t we didn’t meet weekly, um but we do meet monthly in a small group of seven to 10 people, and we have forum.26:15.26vigorbrandingSure.26:19.82vigorbrandingMonthly forum.26:22.81Stephen BaldiAnd, oh, there you go.26:22.85vigorbrandingI didn’t know I’m i’m YPO, too. I didn’t know your IPO. Yeah, I’ve been.26:25.92Stephen BaldiYeah!26:26.21vigorbrandingYeah.26:27.01Stephen BaldiSo YDO is really what sustained me during COVID.26:27.03vigorbrandingSo Oh.26:29.86Stephen Baldium And I’m privileged to be on the ladder now in leadership.26:32.72vigorbrandingDo for you.26:35.01Stephen BaldiAnd so, yeah, as far as mentorship, when I started the company, you know it was a priority for me to give opportunity to underrepresented populations. um Now, as I started to grow the company, my focus started to turn inward, Michael, if I’m being honest. And you know the beginning of 2020, it was difficult for anybody to tell me that I wasn’t the shit. I built this company from zero to something much larger than I had ever aspired to as a young person.27:04.34vigorbrandingRight.27:06.68Stephen Baldium But COVID took all of that away.27:08.81vigorbrandingYeah.27:09.14Stephen BaldiAnd so what it reminded me of is that there was a mission that I started this company with. And it was something that I needed to recommit to when we reopened.27:19.90Stephen BaldiAnd so now um we’re really pouring into our crew members um When I hire someone, specifically, let’s take Dunkin Donuts.27:30.76Stephen BaldiIf I bring in someone as a frontline worker that’s pouring coffee, if they’re still pouring coffee for us in three years, both them and the organization has done something wrong.27:34.59vigorbrandingMmhmm.27:41.17Stephen Baldium We want to scale people up. It is not cost effective for us to have people in the same position for multiple years. So if we’re not scaling someone up to take on additional responsibility inside our company and sometimes even outside of our company, then we’ve done something wrong. you know My mentor told me a good leader ah expects or wants people to leave. A great leader expects them to.28:08.64vigorbrandingYeah.28:09.01Stephen BaldiAnd so either they’re leaving the position that we’re hiring them for or they’re leaving to go to another organization. But either way, we have to invest in our hourly crew members because we can’t afford not to.28:20.86vigorbrandingYeah.28:21.76Stephen BaldiAnd so that’s something that we really communicate out and share out. to our community and our organization and people know that we’re gonna invest in them in ways that other companies might not to and we feel like that gives us a competitive advantage and as a leader it makes me feel a good about not only our bottom line results but also the success that we can feel. I have a manager who’s been with us for eight years.28:46.57Stephen BaldiHer name is Marta. And she started as a single unit manager. And now she’s a multi-airport director.28:53.24vigorbrandingawesome.28:53.39Stephen BaldiAnd to see her growth and to understand the impact that that has has had on her family is tremendous. And I want to do that a hundred times over.29:00.50vigorbrandingSure.29:00.79Stephen BaldiAnd I have the privilege of being able to do that as a leader of our company.29:01.01vigorbrandingYeah.29:04.70vigorbrandingand And think of it this way, I mean, and that’s what’s so great about this country, I’ll say is like, you were making whatever $22,000 a year, I think you had free room or board or whatever you were managing, right?29:12.60Stephen BaldiI did.29:13.65vigorbrandingSo you you’re probably like, I’m getting by, this is okay. And look, you and you know, obviously, you’re you’re very well educated, you have a great drive and personality, but you you created a a huge company. And that’s, that’s, that’s really super cool, really super cool.29:25.90Stephen BaldiWell, Michael, I can tell you specifically in that first year, 2002, I made $19,117 and 43 cents. I can tell you that specifically because that W2 still sits on my desk.29:36.80Stephen BaldiI have it framed.29:36.84vigorbrandingYeah, yeah.29:37.68Stephen BaldiI look at it every day just to remind me of where all of this started and where now we’ve grown the company to I’m, I’m extremely proud.29:45.15vigorbrandingYeah. And you know, you mentioned YPO and I’ve been very privileged to be in that organization for, gosh, I think at least 20 some years.29:53.06Stephen BaldiSo you joined when you were 17.29:54.45vigorbrandingYeah, no, but yeah, it’s one of those things, is we you know, it used to kick you out when you’re 50. In fact, I did, I got the rocking chair and showed up at the front door.30:02.59Stephen BaldiOh, there you go.30:03.68vigorbrandingYeah, that was the thing. And then they decided to have YPO Gold, WPO and all that. stuff So I stayed in and now we’re like a forum for life. So my guys, we meet once a month and we are together. ah we A lot of it’s virtual because these guys, a lot of it, we’re retired and stuff.30:15.91vigorbrandingSo um I’m old. I mean, the it’s YPO o Gold, but I always say it’s Silent G, you know, YPO old. So, but it’s a, it was the greatest thing I’ve ever done for me.30:26.29vigorbrandingMaybe a better husband, better father, better businessman, a better employer, better ah a friend. I mean, and I i mean that.30:32.27Stephen Baldiand human30:33.29vigorbrandingYeah. It’s just a better human. And I think a lot of people see it from the outside and think it’s all, it’s a bunch of guys didn’t talk about how many cars they have and where they want vacation. It’s not that at all.30:40.24Stephen BaldiIt’s not that it’s a transformational community, you know, having a high trust network is invaluable.30:40.92vigorbrandingYou know, it’s, you know, it’s a, it is, it is.30:47.41vigorbrandingYep. Yeah. Someone’s got your back, right? You can always pick up that phone and call your, one of your folks and just, they got your back. No, that’s yeah.30:54.39Stephen BaldiAnd it’s nobody, and it’s nobody, nothing, never. And to have that level of confidentiality is special.30:57.03vigorbrandingThat’s right. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, that’s that’s awesome. That’s all good for you. I had no idea. That’s fantastic. um So, but now I’m going to do a little ploy here. You got to go and you should go to Austin this year to the food and beverage round table.31:10.60vigorbrandingI mean, if you can check it out, it’ll be, I think it’s in in January, you know, I’ll probably be speaking there, but you should go.31:14.55Stephen BaldiOK.31:16.84vigorbrandingI mean, you know, I’d love to meet you in person. It’d be fantastic.31:18.67Stephen BaldiYeah, I’d love that.31:18.88vigorbrandingAnyway, so could we do,31:20.42Stephen BaldiMaybe we’ll be celebrating a Phillies World Series by then.31:22.74vigorbrandingOh man, you’re making me nervous. um I hope so. I hope you’re right. I hope you’re right. But our company, we do it we do an annual food and beverage trends report every year. We’ve been doing them for like, jeez, 15, 16 years. And so a lot of times we launched it at the food and beverage round table. So it’s always really cool stuff.31:40.96Stephen BaldiAwesome, send me an invite and I’ll be there.31:41.00vigorbrandingum Yeah. All right. Well, definitely. I’ll make sure you get it after this, after our conversation here. So, okay. When you go to a restaurant, you you have a choice between human interaction or self ordering kiosks. I know that, you know, you guys need to be really ah high speed, efficient and all that. What what do you, what do you prefer?31:58.57Stephen BaldiWell, it depends, right? Deploying technology is a strategy that ah should be done with intention and asking the question, and then what, right?32:12.55Stephen Baldium I will tell you a story. So the first time we experimented with self ordering technology was in 2008 at JFK airport terminal five.32:24.65Stephen BaldiAnd we deployed at the time iPads um at our Dunkin Donuts because we thought, you know, technology is moving in this way and it’s fun and it’s cool, but nobody wants to walk up to a counter and order a coffee by pressing buttons.32:29.75vigorbrandingMm-hmm. Yep.32:39.85vigorbrandingMm-hmm.32:44.46Stephen BaldiYou know, communicating to a cashier, ah medium cream and sugar takes about 15 seconds. When you are forcing someone to press hot coffee, then medium, then sugar, then extra sugar, like that’s just, we found that that was a ah strategy that wasn’t ah successfully deployed at that time.32:58.57vigorbrandingwho33:05.34Stephen Baldinow That was back in 2008. I will say trends have matured since then and so there is an opportunity to have self ordering technology at a place like Dunkin Donuts and people have learned to navigate it quickly. um You have hot buttons for certain high usage items and so I say to people all the time because my friends question me, whenever they see an iPad, they assume that that means that that technology has taken someone’s job. And what I try to educate people on is that you know if you deploy technology in a intentional way, in a smart way, it allows you to redirect33:45.29Stephen Baldiwhat you would have otherwise spent on front of house and the back of house.33:46.57vigorbrandingMm33:49.72Stephen BaldiOr maybe you’re deploying it at a ah leadership level that’s multi-unit capable.33:49.78vigorbrandinghmm.33:55.24Stephen BaldiAnd so it’s not necessarily ah replacing jobs, but allowing savvy business leaders to take that investment and redeploy it in other ways. I will tell you that the benefit is you know technology doesn’t call out. Sometimes you have to reboot the system, but it always upsells. It always asks you if you want a dessert and always ask you if you want to package your burger with fries. And so to be able to grow your top line ticket, ah that’s only going to drive bottom line outcomes, which allows a business owner like me to look at expansion, to go into other cities, to be able to bring other people along with us because the business is growing. And so there’s opportunity beyond just taking someone’s order. And so34:40.31Stephen BaldiTechnology is something you have to look at in parallel kind of decision making. But I enjoy it. There’s some concepts that it resonates more significantly than others. But I think there’s a balance and there needs to be a balance of both going forward. I don’t think we’re ever going to have an industry that is exclusively technology or self ordering driven. um And I think you go in with a bunch of assumptions, you understand how your customers respond to it, and then you be agile enough to adjust appropriately.35:08.96vigorbrandingYeah, I mean, it makes a lot of sense. And i I concur. I mean, you know, I don’t want to wait in a massive line, especially from an airport. But, you know, just ordering, pre-ordering and all that kind of stuff isn’t all that funny either.35:19.32vigorbrandingSo it’s just you with that happy balance. You know, I do like talking to somebody and, you know, because I talk a lot, I guess. But plus, I always ask for some ice in my coffee just a little bit. I don’t want nice coffee.35:27.30Stephen BaldiThere you go.35:27.67vigorbrandingSo it’s a little tough to explain to an iPad, you know, so very soft.35:31.57Stephen BaldiTo drop it into a couple of cubes, yeah.35:32.20vigorbrandingWhoops. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t want to burn my, burn my mouth. So now I know you have at least one daughter, correct?35:38.70Stephen BaldiI’d have two daughters and a son.35:39.87vigorbrandingTwo daughters. right All right. Sorry. There we go.35:41.61Stephen Baldi26, 25, and eight.35:41.75vigorbrandingThis will be great then. Wow. Wow.35:45.67Stephen BaldiI started over, Michael.35:45.74vigorbrandingA little gap here.35:46.59Stephen BaldiI started over.35:47.16vigorbrandingYou had a little gap here.35:48.55Stephen Baldihad I had a couple of gap years.35:48.93vigorbrandingA couple of gap years. i well so I have two daughters, 26 as of last week and coming coming up on 29. The reason I bring up these families is you know we all know we love all our kids the same.36:01.78Stephen BaldiNo, we don’t.36:01.79vigorbrandingBut on any but okay but on any given day on any given day, depending on the phone call, depending on the visit, there’s certainly ones that we like other better than others.36:02.97Stephen BaldiNo, we don’t.36:09.94vigorbrandingMichael Alex, it happens it back and forth all the time, just in case you’re listening. Those are my daughters. um36:14.34Stephen BaldiLove it.36:15.04vigorbrandingso you know, we talked about pot belly, we talked about smash burger, we talked about dunking, we talked about timber, we talked about founding farmers, am I missing any any ends?36:25.21Stephen BaldiThere you go.36:27.03vigorbrandingWhich one?36:27.28Stephen BaldiIt’s the end. Yeah.36:27.84vigorbrandingWhich one’s your favorite? What’s your favorite kid there?36:29.64Stephen BaldiMy favorite. Wow. You’re going to force me to say that.36:33.77vigorbrandingYeah, yeah.36:34.15Stephen BaldiWell, I will tell you, because I don’t know if any of our franchisors are going to listen to this part. I love them all equally, and I am privileged to be able to operate them. I will tell you the one that probably um sits deeply in my soul as a person ah is probably Dunkin’ Donuts.36:55.45vigorbrandingNice.36:55.85Stephen Baldiand And I’ll tell you Dunkin’ Donuts because when I was growing up ah in Southwest Philadelphia off of Cobbs Creek Parkway, I had family that lived out by the airport. And in order to get into that area of the city, you have to travel on Cobbs Creek Parkway.37:11.63Stephen BaldiAnd there’s a Dunkin Donuts on the corner of Cobbs Creek Parkway and I can’t remember the cross street, but it’s been there for close to probably 30 or 40 years. I’m 48 and I can’t remember a time when it wasn’t there. And I remember seeing that Dunkin Donuts and thinking how rich that franchisee must be to have that score.37:30.65Stephen BaldiNow I know that owning a single franchise is not necessarily a path to generational wealth, but it did, that Dunkin Donuts did put in my mind like what was possible.37:40.22vigorbrandingYeah, that’s cool.37:40.70Stephen Baldium And so to be able to be now a 14 year franchisee of that brand, um which is our longest franchise relationship, it’s pretty special.37:46.48vigorbrandingSuper.37:50.20vigorbrandingThat’s cool. And you know, I’ll say this from the, from the branding side of the world. Uh, what a phenomenal job. I mean, Duncan’s been around forever. I mean, at one point time it was getting a little tired. It was sort of just fading in the woodwork.38:01.35vigorbrandingAnd we know, I mean, all these brands, I mean, they come on strong. They’re, they’re always started somewhere. There’s this regional thing. And then they become these big brands and is they, they struggle to stay relevant.38:10.04Stephen BaldiRight?38:12.62vigorbrandingRight. And I think Duncan has just done a remarkable job.38:16.08Stephen BaldiWe have, yeah.38:16.24vigorbrandingof staying relevant i mean from their graphic design from their marketing their branding to their advertising and all the cool stuff they’ve done that you did you did they blew it away they they absolutely did and yep38:22.42Stephen BaldiI mean, we had the best Super Bowl commercial in my opinion. I mean, Ben Affleck and J.Lo, they did their thing. And Mark Wahlberg, it like it was it was a beautiful commercial.38:33.65vigorbrandingYeah, and you know, it just shows like when you have passion for something, and those guys certainly have passion for for for that part of the world and ah from the Boston area. I just think it’s it was exceptional. In fact, ironically, we have at at our holding company level, Pavone Group, we have the longest running, okay, this is no kidding, the longest running Super Bowl commercial voting mechanism called spotbowl.com.38:56.66vigorbrandingSo every year we get38:57.28Stephen BaldiOK.38:59.26vigorbrandingyou know, thousands and thousands and thousands of votes from around the world, and people vote for their favorite Super Bowl commercial as it’s being played, as the game is being played. And then the the national media outlets reach out to us, and then we tell them the results.39:13.08vigorbrandingAnd Dunkin Donuts was was certainly a stellar winner.39:13.26Stephen BaldiOK.39:16.02Stephen BaldiIt was and had to be at the top.39:17.26vigorbrandingYeah, it was awesome.39:17.88Stephen BaldiCome on out. Tell me Michael it was at the top.39:19.04vigorbrandingYeah, yeah. It was, well, I’m looking over here at my guy that runs it. it was It was the top one. Yeah, it was, it definitely was.39:24.42Stephen BaldiIt was, it I thought it was.39:25.10vigorbrandingOh, yeah, yeah, yeah.39:25.89Stephen BaldiThere you go. Thank you for, thank you for phoning your friend and getting confirmation.39:26.59vigorbrandingIt was it was awesome.39:29.55Stephen BaldiIt was a pretty special advertising.39:31.41vigorbrandingYeah.39:31.85Stephen BaldiAnd yeah, I didn’t get a chance to order my Duncan jumpsuit, but I’m sure it’s in the mail somewhere.39:36.72vigorbrandingYeah, there you go. there That’s that that everything.39:38.41Stephen BaldiMaybe Duncan corporate will see this and they’ll send me one.39:38.96vigorbrandingAlthough. yeah Yeah, all the merch, everything they did around that was super cool. and the take the outtakes from the39:43.99Stephen BaldiSuper cool.39:46.35vigorbrandingyou know It’s funny too because when it comes to this marketing stuff, like it used to be just a TV spot. and The reason I looked over to ask Dave, Dave’s the guy you spoke to. He’s the one that that kind of heads up this podcast. He’s also the one that really runs Spopple. We’ve been doing this so long that In the beginning, we didn’t know anything.40:03.48vigorbrandingIn other words, they would the game it was all about the game. The game was played. And then people realized, well, people love the commercials. So we never knew, like like you and everybody else, we just sit there and watch the game, cut the commercial. Oh, it’s a commercial for fill in the blank.40:15.61vigorbrandingNow, they release the commercials to us ahead of time.40:15.73Stephen BaldiYeah.40:18.45vigorbrandingThey tell us what it’s about. They send us outtakes. They give us information. Because they realize it, because it’s a couple million dollars for 30 seconds, that they need to get as much juice out of the you know squeeze as much juice out of this as possible so they want to know they put stuff online they do teasers and it’s it’s turned into a an event unto itself and uh we’re really proud to have been a part of it so it’s kind of funny that you brought that up that’s cool stuff all40:39.58Stephen BaldiYeah. Now I will tell you my all time favorite Super Bowl commercial.40:44.35vigorbrandingright uh40:45.67Stephen BaldiNow I remember the star, but I don’t even remember the brand.40:49.95vigorbranding-oh40:50.06Stephen BaldiRemember the the commercial with the kid and the Star Wars mask and he was going around zapping things and he went and he zapped the car and the car started.40:55.24vigorbrandingVolkswagen. Yeah. Yeah.40:58.28Stephen BaldiThat was my all-time favorite more commercial.40:58.46vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s great. Yeah. That was ah that was a Volkswagen spot. That was a fantastic spot.41:03.91Stephen BaldiFantastic commercial.41:03.93vigorbrandingIt was a fantastic. You know, I’ll i’ll tell you mine next. i’m I’m a simp and I, you know, ah the Budweiser commercials and41:11.83Stephen BaldiOh yeah.41:13.17vigorbrandingThere was one though in particular where the guy, you know, he raises these horses and it goes on to be a Clydesdale and it it takes off and the horse leaves and there’s a parade. And I almost get choked up thinking about it.41:24.28vigorbrandingIt was so well done. There’s a parade, the guy standing there to parade and the horse sees him, breaks away, chases him down on the road. Oh my gosh. It was, it was, I had to do a live TV commercial. I had to do a live segment on the news about the the best TV spot and and they they, you know, they played it and I wasn’t expecting them to play it.41:40.60vigorbrandingI’m like, I had tears going down my face.41:42.56Stephen BaldiOh, you got emotional.41:42.51vigorbrandingI’m like, That’s my favorite.41:43.64Stephen BaldiOh, look at you.41:45.41vigorbrandingI still get emotional. i think but i think it I think it was the best all-time i mean story. It was just cute. so anyway That’s right, man.41:50.70Stephen BaldiAnd the best story always wins, Michael. Best story always wins.41:53.25vigorbrandingThat’s right. right yeah Yeah, you know, we always tell people a brand is a promise, ah but you have to tell a story. You have to draw a motion, make them laugh, make them cry, make them feel something about your brand. And that’s how you break through. And it’s always important, you know, a lot of times clients will say stuff, um you know, hey we just want to sell more, we got to do this, we got to do that. And and really it comes down to ah the fact that you’ve you got to do great creative to break through to get people’s attention.42:19.09vigorbrandingSo, well, I have a couple more questions for you and I want to hit them for sure.42:21.03Stephen BaldiOkay.42:22.25vigorbrandingSo now look, ah we talked about the airports you’re in, in the in the in the greater DC area, some of the most, I mean, they’re they’re busy, they’re they’re important, they’re huge. Other airports, I mean, you have great concessions in those airports.42:34.37vigorbrandingOther airports that you think have great concessions in the country?42:37.16Stephen BaldiYeah, I will tell you, Atlanta, one of the busiest airports in the world, definitely in this country.42:42.95vigorbrandingOh yeah, oh yeah. yeah42:45.86Stephen Baldium And then Houston, Orlando, Chicago, Charlotte, these are all markets that we kind of look at.42:49.80vigorbrandingMm hmm. Oh yeah.42:54.54vigorbrandingMassive hubs.42:56.51Stephen Baldium It’s important for us to be in high demand airport systems, because you never know how the world’s going to,43:02.80vigorbrandingYeah.43:05.21Stephen Baldirespond. And Morgan Hausl is one of the people who I look to for kind of strategic direction.43:12.04vigorbrandingMm hmm.43:13.49Stephen BaldiI’m thinking about my business. And one thing he always says is that as a business leader, if you’re only planning for the risk and threats that you can predict, you’re probably missing the biggest one.43:24.90vigorbrandingOh, yeah.43:25.41Stephen Baldium And so how we kind of shelter ourselves from that is we go into high demand markets. So even if an airline, a legacy airline like an American or United or a Delta or a Southwest ah decides that they no longer want to operate in that market, there’ll be another legacy carrier chomping at the bit together.43:44.09vigorbrandingSure.43:44.40Stephen BaldiAnd so that’s one of our strategy when we’re looking to grow nationally is to look at high demand airport markets.43:44.77vigorbrandingSure. Mm hmm.43:51.29Stephen BaldiAnd those are just a few that I named.43:53.58vigorbrandingI’m a big fan of Morgan has effect. We have him speaking at our, at our YPO. He’s, he’s one of, I think he might even be next month’s speaker. So I’m really, really, are you really, that’s all his book.44:00.64Stephen Baldiah We’re bringing them in on the 13th of November. Yeah.44:04.00vigorbrandingHis book’s incredible. Incredible. I made my daughter’s read it. So, um, what’s next for balding management group. And mean we talked about in other airports. What’s, what’s next for you? What’s what’s your vision? Where are you were are you hoping to go?44:13.26Stephen Baldimy My vision is to grow the tent and plant trees that I may never even know their shade, um because that’s when I think a community and when a business is thriving is when you’re willing to do things that you might not be able to see to fruition. And so we’re trying to build a company, not trying, we are building a company that will rise the tide for all the boats. I want to create another 20, 25 stories just like mine.44:41.46vigorbrandingYeah.44:41.62Stephen Baldium I can invest and grow my company so that it’s beneficial and creates generational wealth for me, but I also have the opportunity to listen to the individuals whose stories might not necessarily be taken to the top because they’re not fully formed or well articulated.44:59.34Stephen BaldiI try to look for those people, because I was once that person.45:00.66vigorbrandingyeah45:02.15Stephen BaldiI was the property manager in the office, and Cynthia Garber came and tapped me on the shoulder, which she did not have to do.45:02.50vigorbrandingyep45:08.96Stephen BaldiAnd so I’m trying to identify those voices in our companies, the people in leadership, but also the people who we don’t necessarily identify with immediately, because a lot of our workforce our ESL where English is a second language.45:24.24Stephen BaldiAnd so verbal communication is a challenge, but I don’t want that to get in the way of us knowing or identifying the next star in our organization.45:24.69vigorbrandingYeah. Yep.45:33.22Stephen BaldiSo we’re doing things to kind of bridge the gap between ah those verbal communication kind of challenges so that every voice that’s in our organization can be heard because listen.45:44.32Stephen BaldiI won’t pour a cup of coffee or flip a burger or roll a pretzel today, but that’s how our business runs. And so I want to give opportunity and visibility to those individuals in a very intentional way.45:53.22vigorbrandingSure.45:59.67Stephen BaldiSo that’s what’s next ah for the company. And I think if you know you pay attention to the pennies and the nickels, the dollars make sense. And I believe if you focus on organizationally, the people who may be at the bottom of the ladder, you’ll grow the tent and the business in a way where there’s more opportunity created for everyone who’s valuable.46:20.08Stephen BaldiAnd so that’s what I’m committed to, Michael.46:21.72vigorbrandingFantastic. a Question. Have you ever, have you ever spoke to the woman who tapped you on the shoulder? Have you ever told her?46:27.38Stephen Baldii I mention Cynthia Garber every time I get the yeah opportunity to share how she interceded in my life.46:30.01vigorbrandingYeah.46:33.70Stephen BaldiAnd we text probably once or twice a year, but she knows how important she is to me.46:36.60vigorbrandingOh, good. That’s awesome.46:39.09Stephen Baldium We haven’t seen each other in person probably 10 years, but I tell her story every time I speak about my journey because it was instrumental.46:44.19vigorbrandingThat’s awesome.46:47.22Stephen BaldiSo she’s aware.46:47.33vigorbrandingHey, that’s got to get you to pay yeah pay it forward, pay it back. And you got to make sure that you yeah you acknowledge the folks that helped you get there.46:51.02Stephen Baldiand of pay for46:54.07vigorbrandingThat’s, that’s huge.46:54.84Stephen BaldiAnd you know what’s remarkable, Michael, over the 18 years that I’ve been in the business, 16 years leading this company, every now and then I’ll get a text message or I’ll get a direct ah message on LinkedIn of someone who worked for our organization and matriculated somewhere else.47:11.24Stephen BaldiAnd I’ve lost contact with, and they’ve done the same for me.47:12.80vigorbrandinghere47:14.06Stephen BaldiSo I know how special it is.47:15.49vigorbrandingThat’s cool.47:15.94Stephen BaldiAnd so whenever I get the opportunity, I try to tell people how they’ve impacted my life.47:16.98vigorbrandingYeah.47:19.90vigorbrandingVery cool. well Stephen, I have one one last question. You’ve been phenomenal by the way. I can talk for you for hours. You’re you’re awesome. ah One last question. All right. And can’t you can’t pick pot belly or one of your, you can’t pick one of your brands, but if you had one final meal, what would you eat and why?47:35.33Stephen BaldiOh, this is the easy, this is the easy.47:36.24vigorbrandingOh, good. All right. Sometimes people struggle with this. so47:38.51Stephen BaldiNo, it’s not a struggle. Michael, I’m from Philadelphia. If I gave any answer other than a gym steak with whizzing American, with fried onions, hot peppers, pickles, and ketchup, I would be doing my city a disservice.47:42.03vigorbrandingYeah. Okay. Oh, nice.47:52.46vigorbrandingThere you go. That’s good.47:53.31Stephen BaldiSo that’s what it would be.47:53.56vigorbrandingGood. Great. ah Great answer. Great answer. It’s funny, you know, I, yeah, come on, man.47:56.67Stephen BaldiNorth and South, if you haven’t been, you should go the next time you’re in Philadelphia.48:00.24vigorbrandingI’ve been, I had a gym.48:01.51Stephen BaldiI’m not talking to you, I’m talking to your audience.48:02.84vigorbrandingand Okay. I was going to say, I had a gym stick last week and I’m not making that up. We had, I don’t know if I mentioned, but we had, uh, brought in agencies, independent agencies, all from all around North America, i guys from Puerto Rico, Mexico, Canada, all over the continental U S come to Philadelphia.48:19.70vigorbrandingand during happy. We took them to dinners. We took them. We treated them right. We showed them the city independence and all that stuff. But when we had the happy hour at my offices, I had pats and I had gyms and we had little little forks and we did a cheesesteak sampling program.48:32.46vigorbrandingYou know, yeah, they you you do know who won.48:32.82Stephen BaldiOh, and I know who won.48:35.35vigorbrandingSo I know, you know, I know, you know, hey, I’ll throw another one out there.48:36.36Stephen BaldiI won’t make you name it, but I know, I know who won.48:41.02vigorbrandingPat or Tony Luke’s down on Oregon Avenue.48:42.86Stephen BaldiOh, he looks great.48:43.85vigorbrandingThe original.48:44.04Stephen BaldiDe La Sandro’s Mama’s Pizzeria on Belmont Avenue.48:44.87vigorbrandingOh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. tell sound good You know, you you know.48:48.67Stephen BaldiI haven’t lived in the city before the years, but it’s still, I know where to go.48:48.76vigorbrandingYeah, man. Yeah, you know, those, those, those are legacy places, you know, and and yeah, it’s all good, all good.48:54.82Stephen BaldiFor sure.48:56.68vigorbrandingIn fact, you know what, that’ll be my happy meal. The Phillies will be in the playoffs and I do, I slide down into and get a cheesesteak before the game. It’s a, it’s a part of the whole shtick. So I’m excited about it.49:04.48Stephen BaldiAnd you also have to get a wild, wild fruit punch. Come on now.49:06.31vigorbrandingOh, there you go.49:07.00Stephen BaldiYou gotta round it out.49:07.01vigorbrandingThere you go. Yeah, that’s, that’s that’s funny. Well, Steven, it was fantastic. I really appreciate your time. Uh, and it was wonderful talking to you.49:14.87Stephen BaldiI appreciate the invitation. And listen, good luck with the rest of your forktails going forward. It seems like you’ve had an incredible run with the amount of episodes that you’ve already had. And I hope you you know multiply that by 10, if that is your intention and desire.49:27.00vigorbrandingThanks. That’s awesome. Appreciate you.gHey folks, welcome to Fork Tales, and I’m excited. Today’s guest is Stephen Baldy. He’s the founder and president of Baldy Management Group. Baldy Management Group is an airport concessions and management consulting company. It’s a mouthful there. ah Manages concessions in Reagan National Airport, JFK International Airport, and Dulles International Airport. ah Stephen, welcome to Fork Tales, and thank you so much for joining us.00:25.82Stephen BaldiMichael, thank you for having me. I’m looking forward to the conversation.00:29.01vigorbrandingSo for those that don’t know, all of these are located in the sort of DC Metro, Baltimore or down at DC Metro area, right?00:36.21Stephen BaldiCorrect.00:37.04vigorbrandingYeah.00:37.19Stephen BaldiYeah, even though Philadelphia is my hometown, I’ve been in Washington DC for almost 30 years. um So this is home base for us.00:46.37vigorbrandingyeah Well, you you you know, I have a little trick question because that was going to be my first question. Are you still a Philly sports fan? I mean, do you bleed Eagle Green?00:53.03Stephen Baldiif If you cut me, it would be nothing but green. I live in Washington, DC.00:56.48vigorbrandingOK, beautiful.00:57.88Stephen BaldiMy heart is in Philadelphia.00:59.81vigorbrandingBeautiful, beautiful. Wow. There’s, there’s guys, I don’t even know what they call themselves these days. these’s The commanders, the Washington football club.01:04.91Stephen Baldioh The Washington football team, they’re all.01:05.40vigorbrandingI mean, they’re just, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just, it’s irrelevant. It’s irrelevant.01:10.11Stephen BaldiYeah, Michael, my family would disown me if anything other than my ah zip code changed as far as my hometown affiliation.01:10.06vigorbrandingSo that’s fantastic. Hey, it’s awesome. You got to bring, I had a gentleman come in, uh, from, uh, Oregon last week to speak to a bunch of advertising agencies from North America. We hosted them in Philadelphia and this guy was so excited. He was, he, he, he came from there, but he was Philly through and through. So everything in his presentation tied back to a Philly icon, something about Philadelphia that was iconic. And, you know, ah in our company, we’re,01:44.34vigorbrandingWe’re very proud that we’re an independent advertising agencies. We have an agency called Vigor and an agency called Quench. Vigor’s restaurant branding. Quench is food and beverage marketing. And the whole thing was around independence and how it’s how important it is.01:57.06vigorbrandingAnd he had all these great icons from like Nick Foles to, ah you know, ah Mike Schmidt to the Fanatic to, I mean, Will Smith.02:07.11vigorbrandingI mean, he just went through all the Philadelphia stuff, you know, the Liberty Bell and everything else. and So it was cool. It was cool.02:11.77Stephen Baldium I love it. I’ll tell you an interesting story about Nick Foles. So I had a really good feeling about our Super Bowl run, even though you know Carson Wentz, who was leading as the MVP that year, went down. And the Friday before the Super Bowl, something told me to go online and buy a Nick Foles autograph helmet.02:33.57vigorbrandingWow.02:34.10Stephen BaldiAnd I did. Now, I did not expedite the shipping, Michael. So it was not in my possession on Monday after we had won the Super Bowl. And many of my friends said that helmet’s never going to show up, but it did.02:47.65Stephen BaldiSo I bought it for $99.02:47.77vigorbrandingThat’s awesome.02:49.77Stephen BaldiAnd I can tell you, it’s it’s worth a lot more than that.02:51.92vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Yeah, it’s worth a lot to people in Philadelphia. So it’s fantastic. And the pride of that city runs deep. So alright, so tell us about Baldy enter Management Group and what it does what inspired you to get into the airport concession games. I mean, you started I think in residential property, right?03:06.90Stephen BaldiI did. I started in residential property management in 2002. And I started in airports in 2005. And it was all kind of serendipitous. I had a really ah prickly history before starting in 2002.03:23.22Stephen Baldiat Kettler Management, which managed tax credit properties, but also Class A luxury communities.03:29.04vigorbrandingOkay.03:29.23Stephen BaldiAnd I had a tenant coming to my office. And she said, Steven, I see you engaging with the residents and how you handle issues. And I think you should be doing more. And I thought to myself, like this woman doesn’t know me.03:39.92Stephen BaldiYeah, I just fixed her fireplace. But who are you to come in my office and tell me what I should be doing? And at the time, I was making $22,000 a year with a Georgetown degree. And the job that they wanted me to interview for paid $85,000 a year.03:54.21vigorbrandingwow03:54.39Stephen BaldiSo as you can assume, Michael, goal I took the interview, I got the job. And so for three years, I worked in development for Westfield, which most people know as shopping mall developers, they have an airport division.04:05.82vigorbrandingHmm. Ah.04:07.99Stephen BaldiAnd so I was responsible for the redevelopment of national airport here in Washington, DC from 2005. to 2008. And then I leveraged a relationship with OTG Management, which has a very large presence at Philadelphia International, um into a joint venture relationship and actually launched the company, BMG, in 2008. And two thousand and eight and it’s we’ve not looked back since.04:31.36vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. you know It’s funny. I really i don’t know you. we’re We’re really talking for the first time. I can tell right away, like youre you have a positive attitude, and I can tell you’re engaging. And so I could see how someone would see you in action and be like, hey, you know you you could do more. like You can be a part of something bigger. And it’s obviously what’s happened, which is it’s awesome. I’m a big proponent of attitude. I mean, i I love to know where people went to school. I mean, if you if I interview you, I want to see your brains on the table.04:58.39vigorbrandingBut I really want to know what your personality is like. I want to know about your attitude. I want to know ah how ah how much of a ah person you are that wants to win and be engaging and help people. And it’s ah like it comes through with you right away.05:09.91vigorbrandingAnd that’s ah it’s cool.05:10.18Stephen BaldiI appreciate that.05:11.03vigorbrandingnow it’s it’s05:11.32Stephen BaldiYeah, i’ll I’ll take it back if you if you want me to. So ah back in 1988, I was turning 13 and I begged my mom for a pair of Air Jordan sneakers.05:24.58Stephen BaldiAnd you’ll remember when Gordon’s first came out, ah they were the first shoe over a hundred dollars.05:25.72vigorbrandingOh, yeah.05:29.85vigorbrandingOh, yes, they were.05:30.36Stephen Baldiyeah I grew up in a upper lower class household and it was a stretch for my mom to purchase these shoes.05:31.49vigorbrandingYep.05:37.09vigorbrandingMm hmm.05:38.21Stephen BaldiBut I begged her and I begged her and I begged her and and she ended up buying them for me. And she said, you know, I just want you to be safe. Well, you probably can assume where the story goes. Within like a month of getting these sneakers, I was an attempted robbery, and I acted very violently to defend myself, and it resulted in me getting expelled from the school that I was at.05:59.94Stephen BaldiAnd as a punishment, ah rather than letting me play basketball for the entire summer, my mom forced me to go to the reading math and basketball clinic at Friend Central, which is a very prominent independent school on the main line of Philadelphia.06:14.39vigorbrandingMm hmm.06:14.96Stephen BaldiAnd that decision changed my life. um I went from living in a predominantly all-Black neighborhood to a private school that I was the only Black male in my class.06:25.11vigorbrandingWow.06:25.74Stephen BaldiAnd what it did was it changed my perspective of what was accessible. like I had never seen a computer before.06:31.75vigorbrandingRight.06:32.14Stephen BaldiAnd at this school, there was in a computer lab where we could sit down and navigate things.06:34.40vigorbrandingYeah.06:36.15Stephen BaldiAnd so going to Friends Central, having my mom make that leap of faith changed my trajectory in many ways. I matriculated from there to Georgetown University here in Washington, DC, which is how I got.06:48.20Stephen Baldito Washington DC. So I am a super Philadelphia sports fan, because not only am I from Philly, but Allen Iverson was my classmate at Georgetown University.06:51.93vigorbrandingThat’s awesome.06:55.50vigorbrandingIs that right?06:56.61Stephen BaldiYeah, we were the same class.06:56.89vigorbrandingWow.06:57.61Stephen BaldiAnd so, yeah, very cool.06:58.33vigorbrandingThat’s so cool. Yeah.07:00.38Stephen BaldiAnd so maya my commitment to making meaningful connections with people comes from way back then when I was forced to do it, not only because of who I am, but my circumstances.07:00.74vigorbrandingAI. It’s legendary.07:12.75Stephen BaldiAnd I’ve tried to carry that out through my career and my life.07:15.84vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. what a great That’s great. That’s a great story. you know it’s like It’s funny that on the Air Jordans, at that time, when they came out, and I can follow you on that. i know you You nailed it. You said the first sneaker that was over $100. My dad had ah this like mom and pop retail sporting store. We sold mostly like hockey stuff. We were from Hershey, Pennsylvania.07:35.39vigorbrandingAnd I was working in a store in in Camp Hill and outside of Hershey. It’s up in the West Shore, they call it. Anyway, long story short, I was in the mall and we sold some sneakers and the Air Jordans came out and we had them on the wall.07:48.37vigorbrandingAnd it was like, it was insane. $100 for a pair of sneakers.07:52.08Stephen BaldiYeah.07:52.28vigorbrandingAnd I mean, like, whereas I’ll say the average then was probably like on the high end was probably like 50, 55.07:57.40Stephen BaldiYeah, for sure.07:58.58vigorbrandingAnd this went right to 100. And it was funny, my dad, maybe that’s where I started learning about, and I really did learn a lot about marketing, working in retail, because you have to talk to people, you have to sell. And I think that’s the most important skill a person can learn. Communicating with people and learning how to sell, like, you know, at least present yourself, right? So I put these sneakers at the very top. I said, dad, you know what? ah I said, everybody wants the Air Jordans. Most people can’t afford them.08:21.42vigorbrandingbut everyone wants to come and look at it. So I always sell them the white, the white, men’s the body they’re like but you know, so for every one Air Jordan, I saw, I used to sell like 30 other pairs of shoes.08:25.49Stephen Baldiah yeah08:30.65vigorbrandingYou know what I mean?08:31.05Stephen BaldiIt’s been up in the store. It’s like a newspaper. People don’t necessarily want just the newspaper, at least the retailer does it, but they come in to buy the newspaper and then they buy the water, the soda, the candy.08:33.13vigorbrandingThat’s right.08:39.73vigorbrandingThat’s right. yeah I lured them in with the Air Jordans. I think we had like five parrot the most. I mean, we couldn’t afford, you know, it’s a little mom pop store.08:46.41Stephen BaldiProbably two sizes.08:47.56vigorbrandingYeah, right. That’s exactly right. So that’s funny. So okay, you talked about sports and and and you know, Philly and all that you you pride yourself on um being a local company and playing in front of the home crowd.08:58.99vigorbrandingTalk a little bit about the the local connection in DC that you have.09:02.34Stephen BaldiYeah, so I’ll tell you, when you fly into most airports, what people don’t automatically see, but being a former developer, I understand that any airport authority, when you land in their airport, they want you to know what city you are in.09:18.24Stephen BaldiSo national brands are extremely important. So you’ll have your Dunkin’ Donuts. You’ll have your Pop-Belly’s, which are ah franchises that we operate.09:22.12vigorbrandingMm hmm.09:25.89Stephen BaldiBut every airport wants you to have a sense of place. So when you fly into Philadelphia Airport, you’ll have a Jim Stakes, because that’s you know historical to that region.09:34.38vigorbrandingYeah.09:34.93Stephen BaldiWhen you fly into National Airport here, or Dallas International, you’ll have your South Blocks, which is an ASE base. com concept here in the DC.09:45.49Stephen BaldiYou’ll have Ben’s Chili Bowl, which has been around since the 60s.09:45.90vigorbrandingMm hmm. Mm hmm.09:49.41Stephen BaldiAnd so we’ve prided ourselves from identifying and connecting with other founder-led brands, because I’m a founder. And nothing against a hired gun.09:56.93vigorbrandingMm hmm.09:58.81Stephen BaldiI know they are often effective at their job. But there’s something different about a founder-led company because you’ve built it.10:06.95vigorbrandingYeah.10:07.27Stephen Baldiit probably has more ah meaning to you behind just the bottom line um results that you drive. It’s personal.10:15.52vigorbrandingYeah.10:15.69Stephen BaldiAnd so we’ve developed very deep relationships with companies like founding farmers, with timber pizza, who are all local based companies here. And we expect to continue to grow it, not just in this region that we’re in, but as we grow into other markets to do the same.10:30.68vigorbrandingYeah, that’s that’s fantastic. And you nailed it. I mean, like, I’m a founder, I’m an entrepreneur. And you know, and ah again, wonderful folks that that work with me, I’m very, very, very lucky. But you know, for for most people, it’s their job, you know, their career, and and hopefully there’s a sense of of a family and a real relationship.10:49.53vigorbrandingBut for me, it’s my life. I mean, i am I am defined personally by this, which is probably pretty shallow.10:51.05Stephen Baldiright10:54.86vigorbrandingI mean, i mean look, um I love my daughters. I’m a dad. I’m ah a husband. I love my family with all my heart, but I feel like I’m defined by my company and the what I’ve built. and and all of that And I just, you know, so again, I don’t know if that’s a bad thing or a good thing or whatever, but it’s just, it’s ah it’s a lot deeper, right?11:11.93vigorbrandingWhen you found something and ah it’s it’s a lot deeper, everyone thinks it has to do with like money and stuff, and it really doesn’t.11:12.49Stephen BaldiRight. For sure.11:17.73vigorbrandingIt’s a it’s really about, you know, sort of like your life’s life’s work. and You know, you know, I get I get the most excitement out of seeing the growth of the folks in the company. ah It’s great to see the brands grow and the companies grow.11:30.42vigorbrandingBut I really get a kick out of of seeing the folks that have been here a long time and and all that. So anyway, that’s just that’s me.11:35.91Stephen Baldiright11:36.26vigorbrandingBut I just I totally I totally concur with what you’re saying as far as the founder led. I mean, that’s that’s fantastic.11:41.40Stephen BaldiYeah, at some point as a founder, you most likely had to put something at risk that meant something to you.11:47.14vigorbrandingYeah.11:47.50Stephen BaldiWhether it’s personal guaranteeing, first leverage to build the company or, you know, having to bail it out because you run into a pandemic, which we all face back in 2020.11:47.75vigorbrandingOh, yeah. Yeah.11:55.18vigorbrandingAll right.11:57.80Stephen Baldium Oftentimes you can’t just walk from that business and matriculate to another W2 position because this is yours. And so I love when I can connect with founders.12:04.69vigorbrandingYeah.12:07.41Stephen BaldiI’ll work with non-founders also, but there’s something unique about the journey we’ve all been on.12:09.54vigorbrandingSure.12:11.88vigorbrandingYeah, absolutely. So let’s let’s talk a little bit. I just so folks know, I mean, what’s really cool about this conversation is I, ah you know, with vigor, we work with restaurant brands, right?12:22.32vigorbrandingSo we’re very familiar with restaurant brands. And you you have brands like Potbelly, Smashburger. You said founding farmers soon to come. ah Timber Pizza, Dunkin, I mean, some some household names.12:33.94vigorbrandingI don’t know if I’m um yeah any ants.12:34.26Stephen BaldiOn the end, don’t forget on the end, this is what else we have.12:35.99vigorbrandingNo, I can’t actually. Yeah, we actually worked on any answers. We have an agency called quench that a branding agency, Food and Beverage, that that actually worked with Auntie Anne’s because they started here in Lancaster.12:40.96Stephen BaldiOkay.12:45.88vigorbrandinghu Yeah, and I got to meet Anne Byler in the beginning.12:45.98Stephen BaldiThey did.12:48.81vigorbrandingSo, Auntie Anne is actually a person and she’s a wonderful lady and It was a really really awesome to meet her and and and what a she was so she’s a very philanthropic lady very very ah ah Generous and very successful very so she’s got a phenomenal story as well. But so yeah, I certainly won’t leave the auntie hands out But you so you have all these great brands um Talk a little bit about I mean, you know, you said somewhere founded by they you know the founders and all that what’s it like to to manage all these different brands and13:18.00Stephen BaldiI’ll tell you, it’s a dynamic environment. Airports are a wonderful place to do business. Again, I share with you briefly how I matriculated into them, but once you end up in this kind of ecosystem, it’s hard to walk away.13:33.35Stephen BaldiWe get the privilege of serving the traveling public every day. And what’s special about that are the passengers are dynamic. There are people who are going on business trips. There are people who are going on vacations. There are people who are going to be celebrated and there are people who are going to, you know,13:51.28Stephen Baldiusher people off into a transition of life. And we get to meet and connect with them all. And so I tell our crew members that we have the privilege of participating in whatever journey people are on every day.14:03.68Stephen BaldiAnd then the following day, we get a whole new group of people coming through.14:06.48vigorbrandingyeah yeah14:07.36Stephen BaldiSo that’s dynamic in the industries are small. I will tell you it’s about a $8 billion industry nationally in the United States, food and beverage and airports.14:14.57vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah.14:19.40Stephen BaldiBut the industry is really controlled by about 20 key companies. And within those 20 companies, you probably have 50 total key players.14:23.32vigorbrandingyeah14:27.50Stephen BaldiAnd so we know each other. you know You typically don’t leave the industry. Your business card may change. So you may go from company to company, but it’s a small ecosystem. And so I’ve enjoyed being in the industry now.14:40.58Stephen Baldi18 years. I started when I was two. ah But it’s a buy it’s been an extraordinary 18 years, except for some of the challenges like COVID. But you know for the people who were able and blessed to push through it, I think we have a different perspective on what we can be and what we should be in the businesses that we lead. To your point,15:00.50Stephen Baldium being defined by your business is not necessarily shallow, but there’s levels, there’s there’s depth to what we do.15:08.62vigorbrandingYeah.15:08.91Stephen BaldiAnd I’ve been fortunate enough to be able to swim in those depths ah for many years.15:14.41vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. We’ll get to COVID in a second, but I want to go back to airports. ah I’ll say, fortunately or unfortunately, I’m a customer. I’m in an airport every single week. So when you’re describing the people you see there, it’s like, yeah.15:21.70Stephen BaldiAwesome.15:24.71vigorbrandingI mean, you know there’s it’s every single walk of life. Everyone seems to have a higher level of stress.15:30.65Stephen Baldiyeah15:30.77vigorbrandingEveryone’s in a hurry, even when they’re not, or even worse, if someone’s really not in a hurry and they’re walking slow in the airport, that can actually be more frustrating and stressful. but ah So how do you how do you deal with that chaos? I mean, you got all these people that are amped up and nervous and they have anxiety or whatever, and then all of a sudden you’ve got to serve them and take them, you know, and represent these great brands and and and actually make the stuff and and in a and a fast time because they’re always running late, even if they’re not, they just think they’re always stressed.15:56.04Stephen BaldiRight.15:59.20vigorbrandingTalk about airport concessions. Talk about that chaos.16:02.08Stephen BaldiYeah, so you meet people where they are. And I will tell you, operating a street-side restaurant versus an airport, it’s a completely different sport.16:09.79vigorbrandingI cannot imagine.16:10.73Stephen BaldiI tell ah these founder-led companies when they’re thinking about matriculating in the airports, I tell them you know it’s like playing high school varsity basketball.16:10.80vigorbrandingyeah16:19.70Stephen BaldiAnd then you get drafted to the and NBA, like the speed, the requirements, you know, we have to go through the logistical um challenges of having every box that comes into your restaurant scan.16:20.40vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. Yeah.16:31.21Stephen BaldiLike Cisco’s not pulling up to our back door and delivering our ground beef for Smashburger.16:31.53vigorbrandingYeah.16:34.05vigorbrandingRight.16:35.85Stephen BaldiLike it’s going through an X-ray, just like your luggage is.16:38.86vigorbrandingYeah.16:39.39Stephen Baldium All of our crew members have to go through a 10 year federal background check.16:44.03vigorbrandingSure.16:44.19Stephen Baldium There’s complexities to the business, which are to our challenge. But to me, it’s also kind of to our benefit, Michael, because it reduces my competition. Because unless you’re a serious player, you’re not trying to participate in airports.16:54.14vigorbrandingMhm.16:56.81Stephen BaldiAnd so for me, understanding those barriers and be able to navigate them are great. But from a day to day operation standpoint, We encourage our crew members just to meet people where they are.17:07.93Stephen Baldium It may be the 50th time you’ve welcomed someone to our restaurant, but it’s the first time you’ve spoken to the person that’s in front of you. And again, you don’t know if they’re going on vacation or they’re going to a celebration of life to send a family member home.17:16.31vigorbrandingright17:22.96Stephen BaldiRegardless, you should be additive to their experience and not adding additional stress or complications. Just try to deliver them fast, friendly, exceptional,17:34.09Stephen Baldiservice because that’s our standard. That is our vision for the company, which is being exceptional is our standard. It’s not something that happens intermittently.17:42.84vigorbrandingAll right.17:44.59Stephen BaldiIt happens all the time. And so we welcome the chaos.17:45.78vigorbrandingYeah.17:48.05Stephen BaldiYou know, when it’s raining and snowing outside, even though your flights are delayed, we kind of welcome that because that means you get to hang out with you a little bit longer.17:54.78vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah.17:55.63Stephen BaldiSo as long as we’re not canceling flights, if they’re just delayed, that’s kind of our sweet spot.18:00.01vigorbrandingThere you go.18:00.65Stephen BaldiSo we welcome it all.18:02.58vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. You know, you you said something really interesting. So as I mentioned, Vigor is our agency that that does branding and marketing for restaurants. I know, and it’s not, you know, it’s common knowledge that turnover and and employees in the restaurant industry is like the biggest hassle, right? and Everyone’s dealing with that that turnover. But you just said something. they They have to go through this long, arduous process to get through. So do you find that you have, I’ll say, maybe better better qualified, better quality,18:32.38vigorbrandingah team members in your restaurants?18:34.64Stephen BaldiI would tell you that our hourly and even our salary leadership ah on some levels, they’re more committed because it is a personal investment to get through the process.18:39.98vigorbrandingMm-hmm.18:45.54Stephen BaldiAnd so, you know, typical food and beverage turnover is anywhere from 100 to 150%. And only ours is closer to like 30.18:51.64vigorbrandingRight.18:54.91vigorbrandingthat’s hey That’s fantastic. I never thought that that would have never dawned on me that that would be ah an unfair advantage. you know It’s funny, like yeah I was telling someone the other day, you know the higher the barrier to entry in business, actually the better the business is because you don’t have just everybody and anybody competing.19:12.66vigorbrandingSo you you have a higher barrier of entry.19:13.25Stephen BaldiCorrect.19:15.58vigorbrandingum And with that, you have you sort of have ah have a capture to a degree ah group of people, right? ah But the one thing that is interesting, I think if I remember correctly, I think there’s like 30%, I’ll say of ah if it’s a Dunkin Donuts on the street corner, 30% of their their ah customers will probably repeat, right?19:35.43vigorbrandingah you You are not, I mean, you know you might have the same business guy that flies every Thursday out to you know wherever,19:37.58Stephen BaldiNo?19:40.80Stephen Baldiwe have We’ll have our Michaels.19:41.81vigorbrandingYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.19:42.16Stephen BaldiWe have our Michaels.19:43.59vigorbrandingI’ll hit your place and at the airport get a coffee on the way out, but that’s it. Yeah, that’s it. So that’s.19:48.43Stephen BaldiI will tell you, though, we do have outside of the the traveling public, we do have recurring customers who are the people who work at the airport. I mean, at National and Dulles Airport, you get anywhere from five thousand to ten thousand employees that are there every day.19:56.97vigorbrandingNo, that makes sense. Sure.20:03.65Stephen BaldiAnd so ah they are also extremely important to us.20:03.75vigorbrandingMm hmm. Hey, they got to eat and drink, right?20:07.86Stephen BaldiThey got to eat and drink and they have to do it fast.20:09.70vigorbrandingRight. That’s right.20:10.84Stephen BaldiWell, we have different incentives to get them in and out, but they are our recurring customers and they’re about 15 to 20 percent of our business.20:15.10vigorbrandingYeah, that makes sense. Hey, going back to the old mall days that I was talking about the sneakers, I sold a lot of sneakers to people that worked in the mall, not many Air Jordans, but a lot of the, you know, a lot of the lower end sneakers.20:22.26Stephen BaldiYeah, for sure.20:27.36vigorbrandingSo, we talked to you hit on earlier and I know we, we inevitably, hopefully one day we, we don’t, and we don’t have to talk about, we always go back and talking about COVID and, uh, you know,20:35.54Stephen BaldiOh, yeah.20:37.21vigorbrandingOne of our companies and our holding company is a company called Varsity. And Varsity does retirement communities around the country, we market retirement companies. Well, that that industry shut down. I mean, no one was going, no one was visiting, and people were sick. It was bad. Restaurants, another one of our our agencies, right? We marketed restaurants. No one was going. It was basically shut down. you know Your hospitality Uh, and your restaurants, I mean, and your travel, I mean, you’re, you’re combining it all and how, talk about that a little bit.21:06.75vigorbrandingI mean, you were hit from both ends.21:07.11Stephen BaldiOh, I had the privilege of double dipping.21:11.81vigorbrandingYeah.21:11.93Stephen BaldiSo we were in hospitality beverage, but we were also in travel.21:12.41vigorbrandingIn turmoil.21:15.47vigorbrandingYeah.21:16.03Stephen BaldiAnd so I remember very specifically on March 11th, 2020, President Trump came on television and he announced a 30-day travel ban to Europe.21:27.16vigorbrandingMm-hmm.21:28.65Stephen BaldiAnd at the time, ah most people only thought about the impact of air traffic travel to Europe, places like London, Paris.21:37.58vigorbrandingright21:38.31Stephen BaldiBut I anticipated that this was really the big moment for our industry.21:43.00vigorbrandingRight.21:43.21Stephen BaldiI know a lot of people associate kind of their aha moment with COVID becoming a significant thing when the NBA shut down and more importantly, when the NCAA tournament shut down.21:53.85Stephen BaldiBut that announcement on March 11th signified for me that things were about to change for my business.21:58.60vigorbrandingYeah.21:58.72Stephen BaldiNow, I didn’t know it was going to be 18 months.22:02.21vigorbrandingRight.22:02.55Stephen Baldium But within about two weeks, we lost 85% of our top line revenue. And so on March 18, we shut the company down for 18 months. um And it was a challenge to what we talked about earlier, where a lot of my identity was tied up in this company that I built.22:20.39Stephen BaldiWell, there was no company to have an identity he tied to. And so for me as a leader, It really pushed me during that time to redefine who I was in that moment and who I was going to aspire to be if we were privileged enough to come out of it. And we did. We’ve come out very strong, stronger than actually we went in. um We actually sold 35% of the business last year to some strategic, but then also some individual investors. And so I’ve had the privilege of surrounding myself where before I was the only voice in the room and now there are many.22:55.69vigorbrandingRight.22:55.77Stephen BaldiAnd it presents some unique challenges, but also some extraordinary opportunities for me to low to learn and grow from other individuals and institutions that have built companies to scale, not all in food and beverage, many not.23:10.17Stephen Baldium But it’s really given me the opportunity to become a better leader um and to take our company into the next five to 10 years of what we will be.23:20.35vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. you know i the the The COVID obviously affected everybody. It affected everybody in different ways. and like For us for a business, it was and it was really interesting in that you know because we have several different agencies in our holding company, it was sort of a little bit of a like a mutual fund where one or two stocks could be really down, but then others can be up. Our CPG agency, Quench,23:40.72vigorbrandingyou know we’ We’re doing we’re doing brands national brands like you know Sunmade Raise and Stark Institute. To me, COVID, to to that to that company and those brands, COVID was like the greatest sampling program in the history of Earth. i mean If you put it in a package back then, it was on a shelf. People bought it. They stuck it in their pantries. They ate it. They bought more of it. i mean They couldn’t get enough of it. i mean It was just ah an insane time.24:01.94vigorbrandingfor those companies. and then the other the The negative side obviously was the restaurants and everything else. i mean It’s a really interesting time. and and you know You said about how you it can define things. the other thing One of the other things we did was we took adversity. We had all these CEOs that were like, what is everyone doing? i mean like you you know This just happened. It was unprecedented. What is everybody else doing? so We thought, well,24:23.89vigorbrandingAll right, we’re not making i mean and and again it’s not we’re not making revenue businesses down, but we still have these relationships. They’re our clients. So what can we do? So it wasn’t my idea, but one of our guys said, hey, let’s create sort of a round table. of that And our agency is called Varsity. So we called it the Varsity Round Table. So we got all these CEOs that were just like,24:41.34vigorbrandingWhat’s everyone doing? And they were able to talk and it was so successful that we did it the next week. And then they talked more and then more and more CEOs jumped in. They weren’t even our clients and became this open source sharing that has now been, we are on about, I think it’s like 250th.24:58.49vigorbrandingroundt We’ve been doing them every week since the first month of COVID.25:04.38Stephen BaldiWow, impressive.25:05.19vigorbrandingAnd what’s done for a company, for us, i mean again we don’t make any money from it. And it wasn’t about that. It was just a place for people to really vent and help. And now we have speakers come in and talk, and everyone’s obviously well beyond COVID.25:16.71vigorbrandingBut it’s really allowed us to be a thought leader and assist these folks. And you know at the end of the day, it’s what it’s all about. And I know a big thing for you is is mentorship, right? I mean, you know talk about giving back. you want you Do you want to talk a little bit about that?25:27.81Stephen BaldiYeah, I’ll talk about that but I’ll also talk similarly to your roundtable so in February of 2020 I had the privilege of joining the organization YPO, which is Young President Organization, which is very similar to what you define there’s 35.25:42.82Stephen Baldi1,000 YPO members globally. And it’s really for business leaders who have decided that they want to walk towards betterment as a person, as a leader, as a family member, as someone contributing to their community in partnership with other leaders.25:58.55Stephen BaldiAnd so I am in the Washington DC Baltimore chapter here ah in the region.25:58.93vigorbrandingMm hmm.26:04.18Stephen BaldiAnd I’m in leadership. And I can tell you that organization was really critical in me navigating everything that I had to go through ah during COVID.26:14.98Stephen BaldiNow, we didn’t we didn’t meet weekly, um but we do meet monthly in a small group of seven to 10 people, and we have forum.26:15.26vigorbrandingSure.26:19.82vigorbrandingMonthly forum.26:22.81Stephen BaldiAnd, oh, there you go.26:22.85vigorbrandingI didn’t know I’m i’m YPO, too. I didn’t know your IPO. Yeah, I’ve been.26:25.92Stephen BaldiYeah!26:26.21vigorbrandingYeah.26:27.01Stephen BaldiSo YDO is really what sustained me during COVID.26:27.03vigorbrandingSo Oh.26:29.86Stephen Baldium And I’m privileged to be on the ladder now in leadership.26:32.72vigorbrandingDo for you.26:35.01Stephen BaldiAnd so, yeah, as far as mentorship, when I started the company, you know it was a priority for me to give opportunity to underrepresented populations. um Now, as I started to grow the company, my focus started to turn inward, Michael, if I’m being honest. And you know the beginning of 2020, it was difficult for anybody to tell me that I wasn’t the shit. I built this company from zero to something much larger than I had ever aspired to as a young person.27:04.34vigorbrandingRight.27:06.68Stephen Baldium But COVID took all of that away.27:08.81vigorbrandingYeah.27:09.14Stephen BaldiAnd so what it reminded me of is that there was a mission that I started this company with. And it was something that I needed to recommit to when we reopened.27:19.90Stephen BaldiAnd so now um we’re really pouring into our crew members um When I hire someone, specifically, let’s take Dunkin Donuts.27:30.76Stephen BaldiIf I bring in someone as a frontline worker that’s pouring coffee, if they’re still pouring coffee for us in three years, both them and the organization has done something wrong.27:34.59vigorbrandingMmhmm.27:41.17Stephen Baldium We want to scale people up. It is not cost effective for us to have people in the same position for multiple years. So if we’re not scaling someone up to take on additional responsibility inside our company and sometimes even outside of our company, then we’ve done something wrong. you know My mentor told me a good leader ah expects or wants people to leave. A great leader expects them to.28:08.64vigorbrandingYeah.28:09.01Stephen BaldiAnd so either they’re leaving the position that we’re hiring them for or they’re leaving to go to another organization. But either way, we have to invest in our hourly crew members because we can’t afford not to.28:20.86vigorbrandingYeah.28:21.76Stephen BaldiAnd so that’s something that we really communicate out and share out. to our community and our organization and people know that we’re gonna invest in them in ways that other companies might not to and we feel like that gives us a competitive advantage and as a leader it makes me feel a good about not only our bottom line results but also the success that we can feel. I have a manager who’s been with us for eight years.28:46.57Stephen BaldiHer name is Marta. And she started as a single unit manager. And now she’s a multi-airport director.28:53.24vigorbrandingawesome.28:53.39Stephen BaldiAnd to see her growth and to understand the impact that that has has had on her family is tremendous. And I want to do that a hundred times over.29:00.50vigorbrandingSure.29:00.79Stephen BaldiAnd I have the privilege of being able to do that as a leader of our company.29:01.01vigorbrandingYeah.29:04.70vigorbrandingand And think of it this way, I mean, and that’s what’s so great about this country, I’ll say is like, you were making whatever $22,000 a year, I think you had free room or board or whatever you were managing, right?29:12.60Stephen BaldiI did.29:13.65vigorbrandingSo you you’re probably like, I’m getting by, this is okay. And look, you and you know, obviously, you’re you’re very well educated, you have a great drive and personality, but you you created a a huge company. And that’s, that’s, that’s really super cool, really super cool.29:25.90Stephen BaldiWell, Michael, I can tell you specifically in that first year, 2002, I made $19,117 and 43 cents. I can tell you that specifically because that W2 still sits on my desk.29:36.80Stephen BaldiI have it framed.29:36.84vigorbrandingYeah, yeah.29:37.68Stephen BaldiI look at it every day just to remind me of where all of this started and where now we’ve grown the company to I’m, I’m extremely proud.29:45.15vigorbrandingYeah. And you know, you mentioned YPO and I’ve been very privileged to be in that organization for, gosh, I think at least 20 some years.29:53.06Stephen BaldiSo you joined when you were 17.29:54.45vigorbrandingYeah, no, but yeah, it’s one of those things, is we you know, it used to kick you out when you’re 50. In fact, I did, I got the rocking chair and showed up at the front door.30:02.59Stephen BaldiOh, there you go.30:03.68vigorbrandingYeah, that was the thing. And then they decided to have YPO Gold, WPO and all that. stuff So I stayed in and now we’re like a forum for life. So my guys, we meet once a month and we are together. ah we A lot of it’s virtual because these guys, a lot of it, we’re retired and stuff.30:15.91vigorbrandingSo um I’m old. I mean, the it’s YPO o Gold, but I always say it’s Silent G, you know, YPO old. So, but it’s a, it was the greatest thing I’ve ever done for me.30:26.29vigorbrandingMaybe a better husband, better father, better businessman, a better employer, better ah a friend. I mean, and I i mean that.30:32.27Stephen Baldiand human30:33.29vigorbrandingYeah. It’s just a better human. And I think a lot of people see it from the outside and think it’s all, it’s a bunch of guys didn’t talk about how many cars they have and where they want vacation. It’s not that at all.30:40.24Stephen BaldiIt’s not that it’s a transformational community, you know, having a high trust network is invaluable.30:40.92vigorbrandingYou know, it’s, you know, it’s a, it is, it is.30:47.41vigorbrandingYep. Yeah. Someone’s got your back, right? You can always pick up that phone and call your, one of your folks and just, they got your back. No, that’s yeah.30:54.39Stephen BaldiAnd it’s nobody, and it’s nobody, nothing, never. And to have that level of confidentiality is special.30:57.03vigorbrandingThat’s right. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, that’s that’s awesome. That’s all good for you. I had no idea. That’s fantastic. um So, but now I’m going to do a little ploy here. You got to go and you should go to Austin this year to the food and beverage round table.31:10.60vigorbrandingI mean, if you can check it out, it’ll be, I think it’s in in January, you know, I’ll probably be speaking there, but you should go.31:14.55Stephen BaldiOK.31:16.84vigorbrandingI mean, you know, I’d love to meet you in person. It’d be fantastic.31:18.67Stephen BaldiYeah, I’d love that.31:18.88vigorbrandingAnyway, so could we do,31:20.42Stephen BaldiMaybe we’ll be celebrating a Phillies World Series by then.31:22.74vigorbrandingOh man, you’re making me nervous. um I hope so. I hope you’re right. I hope you’re right. But our company, we do it we do an annual food and beverage trends report every year. We’ve been doing them for like, jeez, 15, 16 years. And so a lot of times we launched it at the food and beverage round table. So it’s always really cool stuff.31:40.96Stephen BaldiAwesome, send me an invite and I’ll be there.31:41.00vigorbrandingum Yeah. All right. Well, definitely. I’ll make sure you get it after this, after our conversation here. So, okay. When you go to a restaurant, you you have a choice between human interaction or self ordering kiosks. I know that, you know, you guys need to be really ah high speed, efficient and all that. What what do you, what do you prefer?31:58.57Stephen BaldiWell, it depends, right? Deploying technology is a strategy that ah should be done with intention and asking the question, and then what, right?32:12.55Stephen Baldium I will tell you a story. So the first time we experimented with self ordering technology was in 2008 at JFK airport terminal five.32:24.65Stephen BaldiAnd we deployed at the time iPads um at our Dunkin Donuts because we thought, you know, technology is moving in this way and it’s fun and it’s cool, but nobody wants to walk up to a counter and order a coffee by pressing buttons.32:29.75vigorbrandingMm-hmm. Yep.32:39.85vigorbrandingMm-hmm.32:44.46Stephen BaldiYou know, communicating to a cashier, ah medium cream and sugar takes about 15 seconds. When you are forcing someone to press hot coffee, then medium, then sugar, then extra sugar, like that’s just, we found that that was a ah strategy that wasn’t ah successfully deployed at that time.32:58.57vigorbrandingwho33:05.34Stephen Baldinow That was back in 2008. I will say trends have matured since then and so there is an opportunity to have self ordering technology at a place like Dunkin Donuts and people have learned to navigate it quickly. um You have hot buttons for certain high usage items and so I say to people all the time because my friends question me, whenever they see an iPad, they assume that that means that that technology has taken someone’s job. And what I try to educate people on is that you know if you deploy technology in a intentional way, in a smart way, it allows you to redirect33:45.29Stephen Baldiwhat you would have otherwise spent on front of house and the back of house.33:46.57vigorbrandingMm33:49.72Stephen BaldiOr maybe you’re deploying it at a ah leadership level that’s multi-unit capable.33:49.78vigorbrandinghmm.33:55.24Stephen BaldiAnd so it’s not necessarily ah replacing jobs, but allowing savvy business leaders to take that investment and redeploy it in other ways. I will tell you that the benefit is you know technology doesn’t call out. Sometimes you have to reboot the system, but it always upsells. It always asks you if you want a dessert and always ask you if you want to package your burger with fries. And so to be able to grow your top line ticket, ah that’s only going to drive bottom line outcomes, which allows a business owner like me to look at expansion, to go into other cities, to be able to bring other people along with us because the business is growing. And so there’s opportunity beyond just taking someone’s order. And so34:40.31Stephen BaldiTechnology is something you have to look at in parallel kind of decision making. But I enjoy it. There’s some concepts that it resonates more significantly than others. But I think there’s a balance and there needs to be a balance of both going forward. I don’t think we’re ever going to have an industry that is exclusively technology or self ordering driven. um And I think you go in with a bunch of assumptions, you understand how your customers respond to it, and then you be agile enough to adjust appropriately.35:08.96vigorbrandingYeah, I mean, it makes a lot of sense. And i I concur. I mean, you know, I don’t want to wait in a massive line, especially from an airport. But, you know, just ordering, pre-ordering and all that kind of stuff isn’t all that funny either.35:19.32vigorbrandingSo it’s just you with that happy balance. You know, I do like talking to somebody and, you know, because I talk a lot, I guess. But plus, I always ask for some ice in my coffee just a little bit. I don’t want nice coffee.35:27.30Stephen BaldiThere you go.35:27.67vigorbrandingSo it’s a little tough to explain to an iPad, you know, so very soft.35:31.57Stephen BaldiTo drop it into a couple of cubes, yeah.35:32.20vigorbrandingWhoops. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t want to burn my, burn my mouth. So now I know you have at least one daughter, correct?35:38.70Stephen BaldiI’d have two daughters and a son.35:39.87vigorbrandingTwo daughters. right All right. Sorry. There we go.35:41.61Stephen Baldi26, 25, and eight.35:41.75vigorbrandingThis will be great then. Wow. Wow.35:45.67Stephen BaldiI started over, Michael.35:45.74vigorbrandingA little gap here.35:46.59Stephen BaldiI started over.35:47.16vigorbrandingYou had a little gap here.35:48.55Stephen Baldihad I had a couple of gap years.35:48.93vigorbrandingA couple of gap years. i well so I have two daughters, 26 as of last week and coming coming up on 29. The reason I bring up these families is you know we all know we love all our kids the same.36:01.78Stephen BaldiNo, we don’t.36:01.79vigorbrandingBut on any but okay but on any given day on any given day, depending on the phone call, depending on the visit, there’s certainly ones that we like other better than others.36:02.97Stephen BaldiNo, we don’t.36:09.94vigorbrandingMichael Alex, it happens it back and forth all the time, just in case you’re listening. Those are my daughters. um36:14.34Stephen BaldiLove it.36:15.04vigorbrandingso you know, we talked about pot belly, we talked about smash burger, we talked about dunking, we talked about timber, we talked about founding farmers, am I missing any any ends?36:25.21Stephen BaldiThere you go.36:27.03vigorbrandingWhich one?36:27.28Stephen BaldiIt’s the end. Yeah.36:27.84vigorbrandingWhich one’s your favorite? What’s your favorite kid there?36:29.64Stephen BaldiMy favorite. Wow. You’re going to force me to say that.36:33.77vigorbrandingYeah, yeah.36:34.15Stephen BaldiWell, I will tell you, because I don’t know if any of our franchisors are going to listen to this part. I love them all equally, and I am privileged to be able to operate them. I will tell you the one that probably um sits deeply in my soul as a person ah is probably Dunkin’ Donuts.36:55.45vigorbrandingNice.36:55.85Stephen Baldiand And I’ll tell you Dunkin’ Donuts because when I was growing up ah in Southwest Philadelphia off of Cobbs Creek Parkway, I had family that lived out by the airport. And in order to get into that area of the city, you have to travel on Cobbs Creek Parkway.37:11.63Stephen BaldiAnd there’s a Dunkin Donuts on the corner of Cobbs Creek Parkway and I can’t remember the cross street, but it’s been there for close to probably 30 or 40 years. I’m 48 and I can’t remember a time when it wasn’t there. And I remember seeing that Dunkin Donuts and thinking how rich that franchisee must be to have that score.37:30.65Stephen BaldiNow I know that owning a single franchise is not necessarily a path to generational wealth, but it did, that Dunkin Donuts did put in my mind like what was possible.37:40.22vigorbrandingYeah, that’s cool.37:40.70Stephen Baldium And so to be able to be now a 14 year franchisee of that brand, um which is our longest franchise relationship, it’s pretty special.37:46.48vigorbrandingSuper.37:50.20vigorbrandingThat’s cool. And you know, I’ll say this from the, from the branding side of the world. Uh, what a phenomenal job. I mean, Duncan’s been around forever. I mean, at one point time it was getting a little tired. It was sort of just fading in the woodwork.38:01.35vigorbrandingAnd we know, I mean, all these brands, I mean, they come on strong. They’re, they’re always started somewhere. There’s this regional thing. And then they become these big brands and is they, they struggle to stay relevant.38:10.04Stephen BaldiRight?38:12.62vigorbrandingRight. And I think Duncan has just done a remarkable job.38:16.08Stephen BaldiWe have, yeah.38:16.24vigorbrandingof staying relevant i mean from their graphic design from their marketing their branding to their advertising and all the cool stuff they’ve done that you did you did they blew it away they they absolutely did and yep38:22.42Stephen BaldiI mean, we had the best Super Bowl commercial in my opinion. I mean, Ben Affleck and J.Lo, they did their thing. And Mark Wahlberg, it like it was it was a beautiful commercial.38:33.65vigorbrandingYeah, and you know, it just shows like when you have passion for something, and those guys certainly have passion for for for that part of the world and ah from the Boston area. I just think it’s it was exceptional. In fact, ironically, we have at at our holding company level, Pavone Group, we have the longest running, okay, this is no kidding, the longest running Super Bowl commercial voting mechanism called spotbowl.com.38:56.66vigorbrandingSo every year we get38:57.28Stephen BaldiOK.38:59.26vigorbrandingyou know, thousands and thousands and thousands of votes from around the world, and people vote for their favorite Super Bowl commercial as it’s being played, as the game is being played. And then the the national media outlets reach out to us, and then we tell them the results.39:13.08vigorbrandingAnd Dunkin Donuts was was certainly a stellar winner.39:13.26Stephen BaldiOK.39:16.02Stephen BaldiIt was and had to be at the top.39:17.26vigorbrandingYeah, it was awesome.39:17.88Stephen BaldiCome on out. Tell me Michael it was at the top.39:19.04vigorbrandingYeah, yeah. It was, well, I’m looking over here at my guy that runs it. it was It was the top one. Yeah, it was, it definitely was.39:24.42Stephen BaldiIt was, it I thought it was.39:25.10vigorbrandingOh, yeah, yeah, yeah.39:25.89Stephen BaldiThere you go. Thank you for, thank you for phoning your friend and getting confirmation.39:26.59vigorbrandingIt was it was awesome.39:29.55Stephen BaldiIt was a pretty special advertising.39:31.41vigorbrandingYeah.39:31.85Stephen BaldiAnd yeah, I didn’t get a chance to order my Duncan jumpsuit, but I’m sure it’s in the mail somewhere.39:36.72vigorbrandingYeah, there you go. there That’s that that everything.39:38.41Stephen BaldiMaybe Duncan corporate will see this and they’ll send me one.39:38.96vigorbrandingAlthough. yeah Yeah, all the merch, everything they did around that was super cool. and the take the outtakes from the39:43.99Stephen BaldiSuper cool.39:46.35vigorbrandingyou know It’s funny too because when it comes to this marketing stuff, like it used to be just a TV spot. and The reason I looked over to ask Dave, Dave’s the guy you spoke to. He’s the one that that kind of heads up this podcast. He’s also the one that really runs Spopple. We’ve been doing this so long that In the beginning, we didn’t know anything.40:03.48vigorbrandingIn other words, they would the game it was all about the game. The game was played. And then people realized, well, people love the commercials. So we never knew, like like you and everybody else, we just sit there and watch the game, cut the commercial. Oh, it’s a commercial for fill in the blank.40:15.61vigorbrandingNow, they release the commercials to us ahead of time.40:15.73Stephen BaldiYeah.40:18.45vigorbrandingThey tell us what it’s about. They send us outtakes. They give us information. Because they realize it, because it’s a couple million dollars for 30 seconds, that they need to get as much juice out of the you know squeeze as much juice out of this as possible so they want to know they put stuff online they do teasers and it’s it’s turned into a an event unto itself and uh we’re really proud to have been a part of it so it’s kind of funny that you brought that up that’s cool stuff all40:39.58Stephen BaldiYeah. Now I will tell you my all time favorite Super Bowl commercial.40:44.35vigorbrandingright uh40:45.67Stephen BaldiNow I remember the star, but I don’t even remember the brand.40:49.95vigorbranding-oh40:50.06Stephen BaldiRemember the the commercial with the kid and the Star Wars mask and he was going around zapping things and he went and he zapped the car and the car started.40:55.24vigorbrandingVolkswagen. Yeah. Yeah.40:58.28Stephen BaldiThat was my all-time favorite more commercial.40:58.46vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s great. Yeah. That was ah that was a Volkswagen spot. That was a fantastic spot.41:03.91Stephen BaldiFantastic commercial.41:03.93vigorbrandingIt was a fantastic. You know, I’ll i’ll tell you mine next. i’m I’m a simp and I, you know, ah the Budweiser commercials and41:11.83Stephen BaldiOh yeah.41:13.17vigorbrandingThere was one though in particular where the guy, you know, he raises these horses and it goes on to be a Clydesdale and it it takes off and the horse leaves and there’s a parade. And I almost get choked up thinking about it.41:24.28vigorbrandingIt was so well done. There’s a parade, the guy standing there to parade and the horse sees him, breaks away, chases him down on the road. Oh my gosh. It was, it was, I had to do a live TV commercial. I had to do a live segment on the news about the the best TV spot and and they they, you know, they played it and I wasn’t expecting them to play it.41:40.60vigorbrandingI’m like, I had tears going down my face.41:42.56Stephen BaldiOh, you got emotional.41:42.51vigorbrandingI’m like, That’s my favorite.41:43.64Stephen BaldiOh, look at you.41:45.41vigorbrandingI still get emotional. i think but i think it I think it was the best all-time i mean story. It was just cute. so anyway That’s right, man.41:50.70Stephen BaldiAnd the best story always wins, Michael. Best story always wins.41:53.25vigorbrandingThat’s right. right yeah Yeah, you know, we always tell people a brand is a promise, ah but you have to tell a story. You have to draw a motion, make them laugh, make them cry, make them feel something about your brand. And that’s how you break through. And it’s always important, you know, a lot of times clients will say stuff, um you know, hey we just want to sell more, we got to do this, we got to do that. And and really it comes down to ah the fact that you’ve you got to do great creative to break through to get people’s attention.42:19.09vigorbrandingSo, well, I have a couple more questions for you and I want to hit them for sure.42:21.03Stephen BaldiOkay.42:22.25vigorbrandingSo now look, ah we talked about the airports you’re in, in the in the in the greater DC area, some of the most, I mean, they’re they’re busy, they’re they’re important, they’re huge. Other airports, I mean, you have great concessions in those airports.42:34.37vigorbrandingOther airports that you think have great concessions in the country?42:37.16Stephen BaldiYeah, I will tell you, Atlanta, one of the busiest airports in the world, definitely in this country.42:42.95vigorbrandingOh yeah, oh yeah. yeah42:45.86Stephen Baldium And then Houston, Orlando, Chicago, Charlotte, these are all markets that we kind of look at.42:49.80vigorbrandingMm hmm. Oh yeah.42:54.54vigorbrandingMassive hubs.42:56.51Stephen Baldium It’s important for us to be in high demand airport systems, because you never know how the world’s going to,43:02.80vigorbrandingYeah.43:05.21Stephen Baldirespond. And Morgan Hausl is one of the people who I look to for kind of strategic direction.43:12.04vigorbrandingMm hmm.43:13.49Stephen BaldiI’m thinking about my business. And one thing he always says is that as a business leader, if you’re only planning for the risk and threats that you can predict, you’re probably missing the biggest one.43:24.90vigorbrandingOh, yeah.43:25.41Stephen Baldium And so how we kind of shelter ourselves from that is we go into high demand markets. So even if an airline, a legacy airline like an American or United or a Delta or a Southwest ah decides that they no longer want to operate in that market, there’ll be another legacy carrier chomping at the bit together.43:44.09vigorbrandingSure.43:44.40Stephen BaldiAnd so that’s one of our strategy when we’re looking to grow nationally is to look at high demand airport markets.43:44.77vigorbrandingSure. Mm hmm.43:51.29Stephen BaldiAnd those are just a few that I named.43:53.58vigorbrandingI’m a big fan of Morgan has effect. We have him speaking at our, at our YPO. He’s, he’s one of, I think he might even be next month’s speaker. So I’m really, really, are you really, that’s all his book.44:00.64Stephen Baldiah We’re bringing them in on the 13th of November. Yeah.44:04.00vigorbrandingHis book’s incredible. Incredible. I made my daughter’s read it. So, um, what’s next for balding management group. And mean we talked about in other airports. What’s, what’s next for you? What’s what’s your vision? Where are you were are you hoping to go?44:13.26Stephen Baldimy My vision is to grow the tent and plant trees that I may never even know their shade, um because that’s when I think a community and when a business is thriving is when you’re willing to do things that you might not be able to see to fruition. And so we’re trying to build a company, not trying, we are building a company that will rise the tide for all the boats. I want to create another 20, 25 stories just like mine.44:41.46vigorbrandingYeah.44:41.62Stephen Baldium I can invest and grow my company so that it’s beneficial and creates generational wealth for me, but I also have the opportunity to listen to the individuals whose stories might not necessarily be taken to the top because they’re not fully formed or well articulated.44:59.34Stephen BaldiI try to look for those people, because I was once that person.45:00.66vigorbrandingyeah45:02.15Stephen BaldiI was the property manager in the office, and Cynthia Garber came and tapped me on the shoulder, which she did not have to do.45:02.50vigorbrandingyep45:08.96Stephen BaldiAnd so I’m trying to identify those voices in our companies, the people in leadership, but also the people who we don’t necessarily identify with immediately, because a lot of our workforce our ESL where English is a second language.45:24.24Stephen BaldiAnd so verbal communication is a challenge, but I don’t want that to get in the way of us knowing or identifying the next star in our organization.45:24.69vigorbrandingYeah. Yep.45:33.22Stephen BaldiSo we’re doing things to kind of bridge the gap between ah those verbal communication kind of challenges so that every voice that’s in our organization can be heard because listen.45:44.32Stephen BaldiI won’t pour a cup of coffee or flip a burger or roll a pretzel today, but that’s how our business runs. And so I want to give opportunity and visibility to those individuals in a very intentional way.45:53.22vigorbrandingSure.45:59.67Stephen BaldiSo that’s what’s next ah for the company. And I think if you know you pay attention to the pennies and the nickels, the dollars make sense. And I believe if you focus on organizationally, the people who may be at the bottom of the ladder, you’ll grow the tent and the business in a way where there’s more opportunity created for everyone who’s valuable.46:20.08Stephen BaldiAnd so that’s what I’m committed to, Michael.46:21.72vigorbrandingFantastic. a Question. Have you ever, have you ever spoke to the woman who tapped you on the shoulder? Have you ever told her?46:27.38Stephen Baldii I mention Cynthia Garber every time I get the yeah opportunity to share how she interceded in my life.46:30.01vigorbrandingYeah.46:33.70Stephen BaldiAnd we text probably once or twice a year, but she knows how important she is to me.46:36.60vigorbrandingOh, good. That’s awesome.46:39.09Stephen Baldium We haven’t seen each other in person probably 10 years, but I tell her story every time I speak about my journey because it was instrumental.46:44.19vigorbrandingThat’s awesome.46:47.22Stephen BaldiSo she’s aware.46:47.33vigorbrandingHey, that’s got to get you to pay yeah pay it forward, pay it back. And you got to make sure that you yeah you acknowledge the folks that helped you get there.46:51.02Stephen Baldiand of pay for46:54.07vigorbrandingThat’s, that’s huge.46:54.84Stephen BaldiAnd you know what’s remarkable, Michael, over the 18 years that I’ve been in the business, 16 years leading this company, every now and then I’ll get a text message or I’ll get a direct ah message on LinkedIn of someone who worked for our organization and matriculated somewhere else.47:11.24Stephen BaldiAnd I’ve lost contact with, and they’ve done the same for me.47:12.80vigorbrandinghere47:14.06Stephen BaldiSo I know how special it is.47:15.49vigorbrandingThat’s cool.47:15.94Stephen BaldiAnd so whenever I get the opportunity, I try to tell people how they’ve impacted my life.47:16.98vigorbrandingYeah.47:19.90vigorbrandingVery cool. well Stephen, I have one one last question. You’ve been phenomenal by the way. I can talk for you for hours. You’re you’re awesome. ah One last question. All right. And can’t you can’t pick pot belly or one of your, you can’t pick one of your brands, but if you had one final meal, what would you eat and why?47:35.33Stephen BaldiOh, this is the easy, this is the easy.47:36.24vigorbrandingOh, good. All right. Sometimes people struggle with this. so47:38.51Stephen BaldiNo, it’s not a struggle. Michael, I’m from Philadelphia. If I gave any answer other than a gym steak with whizzing American, with fried onions, hot peppers, pickles, and ketchup, I would be doing my city a disservice.47:42.03vigorbrandingYeah. Okay. Oh, nice.47:52.46vigorbrandingThere you go. That’s good.47:53.31Stephen BaldiSo that’s what it would be.47:53.56vigorbrandingGood. Great. ah Great answer. Great answer. It’s funny, you know, I, yeah, come on, man.47:56.67Stephen BaldiNorth and South, if you haven’t been, you should go the next time you’re in Philadelphia.48:00.24vigorbrandingI’ve been, I had a gym.48:01.51Stephen BaldiI’m not talking to you, I’m talking to your audience.48:02.84vigorbrandingand Okay. I was going to say, I had a gym stick last week and I’m not making that up. We had, I don’t know if I mentioned, but we had, uh, brought in agencies, independent agencies, all from all around North America, i guys from Puerto Rico, Mexico, Canada, all over the continental U S come to Philadelphia.48:19.70vigorbrandingand during happy. We took them to dinners. We took them. We treated them right. We showed them the city independence and all that stuff. But when we had the happy hour at my offices, I had pats and I had gyms and we had little little forks and we did a cheesesteak sampling program.48:32.46vigorbrandingYou know, yeah, they you you do know who won.48:32.82Stephen BaldiOh, and I know who won.48:35.35vigorbrandingSo I know, you know, I know, you know, hey, I’ll throw another one out there.48:36.36Stephen BaldiI won’t make you name it, but I know, I know who won.48:41.02vigorbrandingPat or Tony Luke’s down on Oregon Avenue.48:42.86Stephen BaldiOh, he looks great.48:43.85vigorbrandingThe original.48:44.04Stephen BaldiDe La Sandro’s Mama’s Pizzeria on Belmont Avenue.48:44.87vigorbrandingOh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. tell sound good You know, you you know.48:48.67Stephen BaldiI haven’t lived in the city before the years, but it’s still, I know where to go.48:48.76vigorbrandingYeah, man. Yeah, you know, those, those, those are legacy places, you know, and and yeah, it’s all good, all good.48:54.82Stephen BaldiFor sure.48:56.68vigorbrandingIn fact, you know what, that’ll be my happy meal. The Phillies will be in the playoffs and I do, I slide down into and get a cheesesteak before the game. It’s a, it’s a part of the whole shtick. So I’m excited about it.49:04.48Stephen BaldiAnd you also have to get a wild, wild fruit punch. Come on now.49:06.31vigorbrandingOh, there you go.49:07.00Stephen BaldiYou gotta round it out.49:07.01vigorbrandingThere you go. Yeah, that’s, that’s that’s funny. Well, Steven, it was fantastic. I really appreciate your time. Uh, and it was wonderful talking to you.49:14.87Stephen BaldiI appreciate the invitation. And listen, good luck with the rest of your forktails going forward. It seems like you’ve had an incredible run with the amount of episodes that you’ve already had. And I hope you you know multiply that by 10, if that is your intention and desire.49:27.00vigorbrandingThanks. That’s awesome. Appreciate you. 

The Golden Steer Steakhouse, established in 1958, is Las Vegas’s oldest continuously operating steakhouse. It has been a favored dining spot for numerous celebrities, including Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, and Marilyn Monroe. The restaurant is renowned for its classic ambiance, featuring red leather booths named after its famous patrons, tuxedoed servers, and tableside preparations of Caesar salads and flambéed desserts.One diner once said, “The Golden Steer feels like the soul of Las Vegas.” Nick McMillan and Amanda Signorelli are the managing partners of the Golden Steer. Nick & Amanda took over as managing partners in 2018. Amanda’s father, Dr. Michael Signorelli, purchased the Golden Steer in 2001. Nick has spent his career building companies in both the technology and food industries. Amanda’s background is in the tech industry.Nick and Amanda created a mail order offering called Goldbelly in 2020 as a way to offset the impact of lost sales during COVID. The online sales continue today with a variety of high end seasonings and compound butters.Customer service and hospitality is a key part of the Golden Steer brand and they live that philosophy every day. It includes simple things like answering phones with a human voice, which Golden Steer has hired staff members to do.  The Golden Steer has worked hard to build its social media presence, becoming one of the most viewed steakhouses on TikTok and using the channel to create offers that drive traffic to the restaurant.  QUOTES “I’m born and raised in Las Vegas and my father purchased the restaurant back in 2001. He did it because he loved the legacy and the story and it was something that was near and true to his heart as it is to many Vegas natives.” (Amanda) “Our longest tenured server is a gentleman named Venko who’s been with us almost 40 years. We’ve calculated that he’s made somewhere in the ballpark of 375,000 Caesar salads in his career.” (Nick)  “It’s a ton of fun when Venko’s making your Caesar salad. You’ll definitely hear some stories about old Vegas for sure.” (Nick)  “We’re one of the most – if not THE most – viral restaurants in America on TikTok.” (Amanda)  “We’re in a strip mall. A lot of times folks say ‘When I first drove up I didn’t think I was in the right spot.’ But then you walk inside and it’s like a little time capsule back to old Vegas.” (Nick)  “We look at ourselves as stewards of this brand that has survived six decades plus and we hope to celebrate another six decades.” (Nick)  “To quote Steve Wynn, ‘People make people happy.” We really try to embrace that.” (Nick)   TRANSCRIPT 00:01.94vigorbrandingHello, welcome to Fork Tales. I’m Michael Pavone, and we’re really excited about this episode. This is gonna be a fun story. There’s a list, obviously, of truly legendary restaurants right in in the United States, but the Golden Steer in Las Vegas is one of those restaurants. it’s It’s the oldest continually operating steakhouse in Las Vegas, and our guests today are Nick McMillan and Amanda Signorelli. I’m Italian, so I got that right, right? 00:29.18Nick _ AmandaNailed it. 00:29.73vigorbrandingyeah Okay. So the managing partners, the Golden Steer, the Golden Steer is a steak house that became a regular stop of Frank Sinatra Elvis and many others. There are rumors of secret doors. We’ll talk about that. And, you know, as one diner once said, the Golden Steer feels like the soul of Las Vegas. So ah Nick, Amanda, welcome to the show. 00:49.07Nick _ AmandaWell, thank you, Michael, for for having us. It’s fabulous to be here. It’s a wonderful morning ah out here in Las Vegas. And we’re certainly looking forward to chatting with you a little bit and telling you about the Golden Steer. 01:00.62Nick _ AmandaThank you. 01:00.87vigorbrandingFantastic. Fantastic. So the question is for both of you guys. Tell us a little about yourselves and how you came to be a part of the Golden Steer Steakhouse brand. And I guess there’s like a love story or something else in there too, right? 01:13.37Nick _ AmandaThere it A little bit of everything. 01:14.54vigorbrandingOkay. 01:15.92Nick _ Amandaah So I’m born and raised in Las Vegas, fabulous Vegas. And my father actually purchased the restaurant back in 2001. And he did it because he loved the legacy and the story. And it was something that was really true and dear to his heart as it is with many Vegas natives. Now I left Vegas and went out to Chicago where I met this lovely, charming gentleman. And at some point I said, hey, 01:38.76Nick _ Amandawhy don’t we jump in and since you are got a bit of a background on the culinary side and I’m on the kind of data and marketing side why don’t we put our heads together and jump back in and return to Vegas and give it a shot. 01:50.74vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. That’s awesome. Nick, you made breakfast somewhere along the line for her. Is that how you, the culinary side? 01:54.75Nick _ AmandaYou know I tried I burned some boiling water but Yeah, originally from the Chicago area, I actually spent most of my career in the technology space. 02:06.21Nick _ Amandai But the interesting wrinkle is that I studied in Rome when I was in college and really fell in love. 02:11.53vigorbrandingAwesome. 02:12.27Nick _ AmandaOf course, the Europeans have such a different relationship with food and dining. And I came back to the States. I thought I wanted to move into the culinary hospitality world. 02:24.22Nick _ AmandaSo I did culinary school. My cousin owned a restaurant in Chicago that I cooked in his kitchen for a while. But ultimately said, you know, this is crazy. Who in the right mind would ever want to own a restaurant and left? the way I went back to the software world. The margins are much better and never really anticipated coming back to it. And then, and then, yeah, we met in and Chicago and We got married in 2018 and I sold the tech offer for my last business and had some some time and her father called and said, hey, I need you guys to so either take over the restaurant or I’m going to think about selling it. 02:59.30Nick _ Amandaand So we looked at each other and said, but let’s do it for a year. Right. Let’s do it for a year. 03:04.58vigorbrandingYeah, give it a try. 03:05.72Nick _ AmandaWe’ll kick ourselves. There’s such an iconic story and and history to to the place. So that year started March 1st of 2019. And of course, a year later, the the world changed with COVID. And so now here we are. 03:21.83vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. So I mean, are obviously Vegas has a storied history, all kinds of neat and maybe some bad background stuff. And your steakhouse has kind of been in the center of it all, hasn’t it? I mean, yeah if I remember, I think it’s like almost three different, ah sort of, I’ll say, historical chapters. So you had, didn’t you have people coming from California, ah coming out through the West, maybe to hunt? And the restaurant was a part of that. Can you talk about that a little bit? 03:48.00Nick _ AmandaYeah, so we first consider ourselves, and you nailed it, we really think about it as stages and horizons of history, which is really wonderfully wonderful to see how the restaurant itself has absorbed it. So the very first one was, we called ourselves the period of the Wild Wild West, friendly for the Cowboys. We were truly a Western frontier restaurant, which was a bit more technical back then. What would happen is the Cowboys would come in from all these different places around the world. They’d come to Nevada, they’d go on the mountains, whatever they shot and killed, they’d bring in, it would be our responsibility to clean, prep, serve, and cook all those things for whoever had them. And so you have a lot of iterations of rattlesnake game, things like that on the menu, but very much Wild West cowboy lore. And so that’s what we started as. And then the second phase of that was as Vegas matured and went from being a saloon-style town to something a bit more elevated, we decided as a city to dominate the entertainment space, which led us to what we like to call the showman era. And so with the showman era, that’s where you have Sammy Davis Jr. 04:45.14Nick _ Amandaah me monroe you’ve got frank sinatra You’ve got all these iconic, amazing celebrities and talents who are coming through Las Vegas, putting their foot on the ground and saying, let’s own this, let’s create it. And during that time, while they were out and performing for everyone else, they’d come back at night and dine at the Golden Steer. And we’ve actually got stories of patrons who said, oh, I remember my father and my grandfather used to come to the Steer because Frank Sinatra would get up on a table drinking whiskey, smoking a cigar and serenading the rest of the restaurant. 05:11.08Nick _ Amandajust really amazing moments that you wish you could see. Of course, when you’ve got the showmen and you’ve got the glitz and glam, you very quickly have the seedy underbelly, which ends up being the mob style. 05:14.47vigorbrandingYeah. 05:21.27Nick _ AmandaAnd so where all the fabulous flashy people come, mob’s there. And that is not surprising, especially when it started with someone like Tony Spalato, who came from the hole in the wall gang. And he made his mark in his business in Las Vegas, as he liked to call a jewelry shop. 05:35.18Nick _ AmandaI think of him more as a pawn shop because everything he had, you stole from a celebrity. You could just buy it back. So he began in Vegas and brought the rest of his um friends, we’ll call them lovingly, to this year to have meetings. And that began the mob period where they spent a ton of time here. It led to the mob room. We had the MatriD trying to exchange and make sure that we had the right mob partners not sitting right next to each other or in different rooms if we needed to. And it created quite a different ambiance. 06:02.56vigorbrandingit’s It’s amazing. And it’s really, I mean, again, so I can say this I’m Italian. So I’m always the old mob is I mean, I, i wrote you know, I think the greatest business movie ever made was a Godfather. And I swear by that, I think that is the best business movie ever made. 06:14.88vigorbrandingAnd so and the greatest movie ever made. So I love all of that, that, that, that mystique. I’ve been to your restaurant and the food is phenomenal. 06:21.44Nick _ Amandait 06:24.74vigorbrandingI’m not pandering. It really is phenomenal. 06:26.86Nick _ Amandathank you 06:26.94vigorbrandingBut you almost get that vibe when you walk in there, like with the brown booze and you have the other people’s names owner who used to hang out there. 06:32.06Nick _ Amandaand 06:32.49vigorbrandingum It’s just, it’s amazing. So you you had obviously all the showmen, you know, the whole brat pack was there. I know that there you have the picture behind you. ah But you also had celebrities like Joe DiMaggio, right? You had, I think it was Ali there. I mean, I think you had lots and lots of sports figures. I mean, I guess anybody that popped in Vegas, how’d he go to the Golden Steer? 06:48.32Nick _ AmandaThank you. Muhammad Ali ah celebrated his birthday here. Mario Andretti, yes, Joe DiMaggio, some more local folks. So, the comedian of Entroqua is Terry Fader. And then my favorite, one of my favorite stories, of course, is Mr. William Baxter. So, William Baxter is ah is a famous, for a number of reasons, one, ah very, very successful professional poker player. 07:17.87Nick _ Amandaum but also very so very well known because he sued the United States federal ah federal government in a case that went all the way to the Supreme Court and he argued that poker is a game of skill and not a game of chance. 07:30.68vigorbrandingOkay. Hmm. 07:33.60Nick _ Amandaand so And that it should be taxed as income instead of gambling winnings. Gambling winnings are taxed higher than income is. 07:38.95vigorbrandingHigher. Yep. 07:40.44Nick _ Amandaah He ultimately won it and permanently recategorized poker winnings for for players across the country. And so just, ah I think it’s a great example of kind of the Vegas stories that you find here um that are that fly a little bit below the radar. 07:52.87vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah, it’s it’s crazy. And again, so much history, yeah you know, I think evolve. And it makes sense, right? Like we talked about like the the mob and stuff like that. Well, in every movie, I mean, you know, they got to go somewhere that’s sort of like a neutral ground, right? Where they’re, you know, they’re not going to be talking in the inside the casino or, you know, their hideout. So they’re gonna, they’re gonna go someplace where there’s ah other people and all that. And the Golden Steer was sort of like a centerpiece for that, wasn’t it? 08:23.81Nick _ AmandaIt was and actually it worked that we’re having this conversation from the mob room. So this is one of the private rooms that we have in the restaurant where they like to come in and dine and enjoy because it was it was separate and so they could have some candid conversations. 08:28.11vigorbrandingOh, there you go. ye 08:40.00Nick _ Amandaalso very close to a back hallway that we had so that they could ah sneak in and out as they needed to because one of the other booths that we have is Ralph Lamb and Ralph Lamb was very well known sheriff here in Vegas in the the at at the same time as the mob so he was kind of chasing them around and so there was certainly times that that one or both were coming in and required ah a quick getaway or a discreet exit and so that’s why they love to to kind of sit and dine in here in the mob room. 09:12.77vigorbrandingThat’s great. So we won’t talk too much about the mob, although I do love the mistake, but so this, yeah we can go to, let’s, let’s talk about like, you know, I know you don’t serve burgers anymore, but, but you said in in past interviews, I guess Elvis had had his last burger at the golden steer. 09:26.63Nick _ AmandaWell, I think he had the last burger that we served at the Golden Steer. I’m sure he had burgers after that. 09:30.40vigorbrandingOkay. 09:31.71Nick _ AmandaBut yeah, we used to do a little transition from the mob. 09:31.79vigorbrandingOkay. Oh no, we’re not saying he didn’t get poisoned there. No, no, no, no, no. You just had, yeah, I would have very clear on that. 09:39.04Nick _ AmandaWe had to make sure that we were clear about it. Um, no, he, he used to come in, he would sit at the, at the bar and and enjoy a burger. And then as you know, his, his fame continued to rise. He transitioned to sitting in, he has a beautiful, probably one of the best corner booths in the restaurant where he would sit and transition from burgers to, to steaks. And so at that point we decided, all right, no more, no more burgers on the menu. 10:05.00Nick _ Amandaand and and to this day have still not served a burger since Office of Time. 10:10.03vigorbrandingThat’s great. So, okay, you guys joined the the Golden Steer 2018, then COVID came around, obviously, and probably created a havoc for everybody, like it did everybody else. I know how it affected the restaurant industry. But you guys, i’ve been I’ve been to your website, you guys are doing mail order, things like that, too. Is that right? So we’re gonna talk a little bit about that and some of the thinking that you put behind that. 10:30.50Nick _ AmandaYeah, absolutely. So when COVID first hit, we both looked at each other and credit to Nick. He was really early on in this. We were actually planning for COVID in the December of the year prior. So we were looking out and thinking that there was going to be something that changed the restaurant dramatically. It was a question of what and how, and more importantly, how long. And so a lot of restaurants we’re looking at, do we do a to-go option? But the reality is our restaurant is on the strip. 10:53.31Nick _ Amandawith the world being shut down. We don’t have anybody here. Even if we wanted to deliver, given the radius, by the time the product got there to most of the suburbs that are going to be 20, 30 minutes away, the product and integrity and quality was going to be disastrous. So it did not make sense for us to try that. The other element, when you look at the actual nature of our business at the time, the predominant share of our customer base actually came from outside of Nevada. And so we said, all right, so most of our customers that we need to be able to get to aren’t here. Let’s ship to them. 11:19.84Nick _ AmandaFortunately, in a prior life, I had run a company and was good friends with some folks that had started a shipping company that was on Foodside and that was Home Chef. Nick also had his first company, which was Right Bites. 11:30.63Nick _ AmandaSo he also had an idea of how to do shipping. So we looked at each other and said, let’s give it a go. So we went live on Goldbelly, which was May 19th, sold out of our inventory with one email in about two weeks. 11:38.00vigorbrandingMm hmm. 11:43.08Nick _ AmandaSo there’s something there. Let’s turn it on and run with it for a bit. Fast forward to November of that same year, and we ended up taking it in-house and selling ourselves on Shopify and building that out. 11:52.01vigorbrandingThat’s great. 11:52.22Nick _ AmandaWow, we’ve been able to double that business pretty much year over year. And interestingly enough, that business is actually a seasoning company first and a state company second. 12:00.39vigorbrandingWow. Good for you. Well, I mean, there was the mail order stakes before, right? 12:02.46Nick _ Amandathere was states 12:04.20vigorbrandingPeople had that. That’s something that, you know, existed. So, uh, which that’s great. And it’s good to still have that, but the seasonings are, that’s what makes you guys special, you know? 12:12.82Nick _ AmandaIt’s a ton of, and it was, you know, something, you know, we’ve, so Sergio sees, so Sergio is our master butcher. He’s been with us for almost, almost four decades at this point. 12:23.22vigorbrandingWow. 12:23.37Nick _ AmandaAnd he, over the years has developed a seasoning blend in it. We use it on steaks in the restaurant. But it really came, we so during COVID, we did virtual private dining, which was we had all these conventions cancel, all these corporations that looked to do virtual events. 12:38.93Nick _ AmandaAnd so we we had our iteration of that, which is we would send a box of ingredients for a three-course meal. So our world-famous Caesar salad, rib eyes, the cream corn, twice baked potato, and then, of course, the bananas foster. 12:53.11Nick _ AmandaYou can’t forget, a little taste is sweet at the end. 12:54.34vigorbrandingnope yep 12:55.78Nick _ AmandaBut one of the items was Sergio seasoning. And as we did more of these events, and we did them for folks like Dell and Cisco and NASA and Second Watch, people started asking, like hey, this Sergio seasoning, can we can we buy this separately? And so a light bulb went off, and it was I think a year and a half after we first started selling steaks that we then allowed folks to to buy and and brought the Sergio seasoning to market, which then kicked off a line of seasonings, and now we have a line of compound and flavored butters that we also ship out as well. So it’s been a real like evolution of that online piece that you know I don’t think, um without COVID, I i mean, we we probably would have exported a little bit, but it was really a driver and catalyst for you know expanding into that online space. 13:43.94vigorbrandingYeah, I mean, it’s brilliant. And look, you know, necessity is the mother of invention, right? You guys, I know restaurants are hard and it can be a daily grind, you know, whether you have one or 50 or for franchisee, franchisor to then start an online, really, in a way, a CPG business, right? i mean e-commerce business, it’s a whole other world and it’s a whole other venue. So it’s really kind of cool that you were able to have the energy, the fortitude and the desire to drive that way. That’s that’s awesome and kudos to you guys for doing that. 14:14.81Nick _ AmandaAnd that is, I, you know, Amanda has really taken that by the horns and driven that um to an amazing extent. 14:14.89vigorbrandingum 14:24.40Nick _ AmandaI think it’s it’s wild. I mean, it’s been it’s been a long journey, right? we’re We’re almost four years in, but it’s been exciting to see kind of how that has evolved and changed. um Because it is. 14:35.21Nick _ AmandaIt’s an entirely different world. 14:36.55vigorbrandingSure. 14:37.18Nick _ AmandaThe digital ad space is, um is ah of course, massive. um And so it’s been it’s been fun to to kind of lean into that. And it’s to see where the two have fed off of each other, I think, is is very exciting for us. 14:53.69Nick _ AmandaAnd so as an example of that, It used to be two sister brands. So we had Golden Steer Las Vegas as one of the domains and then Golden Steer State Company. And it was only in March of this year that we kind of brought it all under one umbrella. 15:06.96vigorbrandingSure. 15:07.41Nick _ AmandaIt’s goldensteer dot.com, which really we saw a lot of benefits in and value to it, which has been it. 15:10.93vigorbrandingOf course. Yeah, I mean, it’s that’s super smart. I mean, this all came about like Fork Tales, this podcast all came about because we have we have an agency. My background is is advertising marketing and we have a holding company and in our company, we created different brands. And one is Quench, which is CPG food and beverage. When we were doing that, people would come and say, hey, 15:32.60vigorbrandingYou should you know market our restaurant or do you do restaurants and. Everyone thinks well restaurants food and beverage right so it’s the same as cpg but it’s not and you guys know that cause you’ve done both so. We created vigor or you know take on and a brand called vigor which is a restaurant. 15:49.99vigorbrandingbranding and marketing agency and they are very different. I did it because they’re different. and We have different skill sets in there and you know it’s retail and the speed of retail in the restaurant side and CPG is just a different animal. 16:02.86vigorbrandingSo I mean it’s a yeah it’s it’s ah um kudos to you guys again for doing both. 16:06.33Nick _ Amandato go. 16:08.20vigorbrandingI see that a lot because we’ll have a lot of folks on that’ll be ah they’ll they’ll start with ah a food product, a CPG and they’ll create restaurants from it. or they’ll have a restaurant and then things will emanate off of it. 16:19.82vigorbrandingYou know, we just did a thing with Guy Fieri ah with his sauces. We just did a thing with, I’m trying to think who else was, it doesn’t matter. But we’ve we’ve had a lot of these guys, a home run in is another one who’s started out as a restaurant and and now they’re, you know, yeah. 16:33.66Nick _ Amandaoh yeah ah 16:36.53vigorbrandingthey’re phenomenal pizza, right? So it’s really kind of neat to see these evolutions and how they grow. So well thank goodness that the whole industry of the conventions is back. and I’m sure that’s great for you guys. In fact, i’m i and believe it or not, I’m not just saying this, we have 15 people coming in to your restaurant. I think it’s in October. If that reservation is not made, we have ah one of our companies and our holding company is a company called Varsity, which is senior living. We have we market and brand retirement communities around the country. 17:06.78vigorbrandingAnd there is a, ah the acronym is SMASH. I’m not sure exactly what it stands for, but they’re having a convention in Vegas. And so we’re bringing a bunch of clients ah to the restaurant. 17:16.97Nick _ AmandaThank you. 17:17.92vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. So I’ll have to make sure they get the bananas foster. 17:18.87Nick _ AmandaWe’ll see you. 17:22.79vigorbrandingSo, oh yeah. 17:22.81Nick _ Amandait’s the bottom one 17:24.05vigorbrandingBut now the stay on the let’s say when you’re Caesar Salads killer, I was at the restaurant and the gentleman at the serve, they talk about him a little bit. 17:31.84Nick _ AmandaYeah, so our longest tenured server, a gentleman named Banco who’s been with us for also almost 40 years, and we calculated that we think that he’s made somewhere in the ballpark of 375,000 Caesar salads in his career. 17:50.13Nick _ AmandaUh, so it’s, it’s, he, and he tell, he tells some wonderful stories. 17:50.59vigorbrandingyeah 17:55.52Nick _ AmandaHe’s been in Vegas for a long, long time and has met some incredible people. And, you know, one of them, most interestingly, coming back to kind of the the mob era. 18:06.14Nick _ AmandaSo Tony Spelatro. Camino talked about his his jewelry store. It was right next to the Golden Steer, which is why he would come in. And one of it the gentlemen on his henchmen team was Frank Colada. And Frank Colada, there is a ton of stories and books and podcasts about him. 18:24.98Nick _ Amandaum because he yeah actually was ah an informant and went into witness protection for a long time and then came out of it and he would still after he came out he would still come in and dine at the Golden Steer and Vanco was the only server that he would that he would really allow to to wait on him and so they had a they had a special relationship and Vanco yeah has some tremendous stories and It’s still with us. 18:48.76Nick _ AmandaWe are grateful um through through all of the ah the craziness of COVID remained with us and and is a treasured part of of the team. And we are not just him, but we have a tremendous team. 19:00.25Nick _ AmandaBut it’s a ton of fun when Van Gogh is making your season salad. You’ll definitely hear some stories about Old Vegas for sure. 19:04.81vigorbrandingYeah, ah it’s it’s super cool. Like I said, I absolutely loved ah my time there. and And you were not there, but he was so that, you know, he he was there. 19:13.26Nick _ Amandayeah 19:14.38vigorbrandingthen We got the Caesar and, you know, it was it was a phenomenal. So and the whole like the whole mistake. And what’s really cool and and you I should say for anybody who’s interested in in in checking out the the the restaurant, you know, we think about Vegas and restaurants like there’s these big casinos and all the restaurants in the casinos. 19:30.51vigorbrandingYou guys are not in a casino. I mean, you’re old Vegas, you’re on the strip, right? 19:34.33Nick _ AmandaWe are, our address is not technically on the strip. We are about a half a block or a block off the strip, but we’re in a strip mall. 19:41.22vigorbrandingYeah. 19:41.54Nick _ AmandaAnd so a lot of times we get feet, like folks drive up and they say like, when I first drove up, I don’t, I didn’t think that I was in the right spot. 19:46.04vigorbrandingYeah. 19:50.61Nick _ AmandaUm, because, you know, we talk about all this history and everyone that’s come in and you drive up and it’s a strip mall. 19:55.88vigorbrandingright 19:56.10Nick _ AmandaUh, but then you walk inside and it’s like a little time capsule back to old Vegas. We still have, you know, 20:00.15vigorbrandingyeah 20:01.01Nick _ AmandaWe still have the carpets and the dining rooms and the popcorn ceilings and a lot of the elements that make, that kind of transport people back to to that time. And so, um but yeah, and we’ve always been in this location, ah you know, 66 years. And you can think about, back to Amanda’s story about the frontier days. 20:23.72Nick _ Amandayou can kind of see it when you come here like this is not you know there was the old strip down on Fremont and then some of the kind of the new hotels were being built in the 50s and 60s but this was kind of just a little bit off the beaten path and so there were hitching posts and it’s easy to see how folks would you know go and hunt in the wilderness which was not that far from where we currently are but now of course today it’s it’s a much different story Vegas has seen some tremendous growth but 20:42.38vigorbrandingRight. 20:47.30vigorbrandingYeah. 20:48.45Nick _ Amandaah But yeah, it’s a ton of fun when folks come in for the first time and kind of look at themselves at the outside like, are we at the right spot? And then walk in and a whole different world. 20:56.76vigorbrandingyeah Well, the way you explained it was absolutely 100% my experience. Because when I went out there, I think I took an Uber, and you know how sometimes Ubers you put an address in and you’re like, well, this doesn’t look right. I did the old, well, this doesn’t look right. And then I was like, wait, wait, no, there’s, oh, yep, yep, yeah, we’re right, okay, great. And walked in and it was like, to your point, it’s like ah Oz, right? You open the door and there you are. And so I think anybody that goes to Vegas, you know, the the mystique, the history, all that stuff is so important and so cool. and You know, I just need to go to, uh, you know, anybody can go to the wind or whatever, which they’re all fine. 21:26.30vigorbrandingThey’re all great. But I mean, like to go out and see your place is like, it’s like going to a museum. and And then, but then on top of it, the food is as good as anything you’re going to get anywhere, if not better as far as a steak. So I just think you have such a cool vibe going and, uh, kudos. 21:38.08Nick _ AmandaWell, thank you. yeah you know and it’s And especially this year, it’s bittersweet, right? So the Tropicana is in the process of being torn down. 21:43.48vigorbrandingYeah. 21:45.67Nick _ AmandaAnd and it’s a remind. What’s that? The Mirage. The Mirage, of course, is you know the first hotel that Steve Wynn built from the ground up is is also in the process of being demolished. 21:49.01vigorbrandingYeah. 21:55.82Nick _ AmandaSo it’s exciting. the The town has seen tremendous growth. And I think the um the community has benefited from it greatly. But it’s also a little bittersweet because these icons of the past kind of are continuing to to transition. 22:06.50vigorbrandingYeah. 22:08.96Nick _ AmandaAnd so we we look at ourselves and we think, and we talk about it a lot with the team, that we feel like stewards of this brand that has managed to survive you know six decades plus, and that we you know hopefully would love to celebrate another six decades. 22:25.51vigorbrandingSure. 22:25.95Nick _ AmandaPast this so it’s been you know, the town is is is wild. it’s It’s been really great um But yeah, they’re it’s kind of always in that transition period 22:36.05vigorbrandingThat’s funny. I mean, it’s really ah yeah it’s ah it’s an amazing kind of thing. And just to have that history is just it’s a treasure to your point. So a lot of the restaurants will claim that, you know, they focus on hospitality, but very few do it well. What’s your secret? How do you make it real and make sure that your staff brings that, you know, to life every day? 22:54.75Nick _ AmandaIt’s a great, way it you know, I’m from, or like I said, I’m originally from the tech world. And so it’s been, um, It’s been phenomenal to see just, I think, just want to talk about for a second. I think the, the work ethic and, uh, the quality of people that are in the industry is tremendous. Um, and I think, you know, people really that are in this, like have a passion for, for it. And I think Vegas itself is unique in that. Uh, and I think it, it starts with people. Um, I think to quote Steve, when he always said that, you know, that people make people happy. Uh, and I think we really try to embrace that. 23:32.99Nick _ Amandaum And one, so Pete Wells just retired as the New York Times food critic in his final column. One of the things that he talked about was phones, that a lot of restaurants don’t answer phones anymore. And we do. We actually, ah we get a tremendous number of of inbound phone calls and we’ve hired up folks in the restaurant to be able to try and answer as many of those phone calls as possible with a human voice because we think that that is important. And we, 24:02.19Nick _ AmandaYou know, at the end of the day, we were a family business. There’s not too many family businesses on the Las Vegas Strip. And so we try to bring that warmth and the idea of, you know, folks are coming in to celebrate their most treasured moments, their birthdays, their anniversaries, graduations. 24:21.88Nick _ AmandaIt’s always fun when a local came in for prom and now they’re coming in for, you know, their kids’ graduation or or anything like that that’s multi-generational. 24:27.56vigorbrandingAwesome. 24:30.23Nick _ AmandaAnd so there’s a lot of, ah history that folks have with the restaurant and warmth I think is one of the big pieces that we try to to focus on. I mean there’s the there’s the tactical ah you know the steps of service and all of those pieces but we really try and say how do we make people feel feel good and feel happy feel welcomed if If something is wrong, if there is a miss on food, um we will you know either replace it or take it out late. We do everything that we can to ensure a great experience because we know that folks are coming in to to celebrate celebrate those special moments. so 25:08.31Nick _ AmandaWe really try and focus on the people first. ah We have a tremendous, tremendous staff um that I think enjoys the history and kind of being a part of that stewardship of ah a legacy brand. And it’s a ton of fun. And I think we are We are fortunate that we have had folks that have been with us for a long time to kind of keep that, like a, like a Vanko and a Sergio over the decades that have seen the ebb and flow of the city, that have seen the ebb and flow of the restaurant and have some, ah you know, a foot kind of in the old Vegas hospitality that folks like to to reminisce about. 25:34.68vigorbrandingwho 25:47.75Nick _ AmandaAnd so we try and and bring that and make that real, ah you know, day in and day out, which is, which is a fun, a fun and interesting challenge as a part of the restaurant industry. 25:57.16vigorbrandingYeah I mean we’ll like you know okay so and I’m not saying everyone can do it well but anyone can make a steak you know I can go home and grill a steak but if I go to your restaurant I’m gonna get it I’m gonna get a phenomenal but really it is about that whole experience right and those people become they’re part of the brand like we I said I did have the Uh, uh, your gentlemen, Benko, I guess is his name that did you make my, so my salad was phenomenal. I mean, and that was part of the whole, the whole deal and and and part of the romance of the whole place. So, uh, I think that’s, that’s phenomenal. So now talking about special moments last year, you guys purchased a thousand square foot of adjoining space. You’re expanding for the first time in 50 years. Um, now you you have a classic look architecturally, how hard is that to do? And what is the, what are what are you going to do with that space? It’s just tables. You can do more banquets. Is it, you know, talk a little bit about that. 26:43.00Nick _ AmandaYeah, so we opened it. um And it it was exciting. It was the first time in 50 years. And to Amanda’s point, in the restaurant, you could see the evolution over the six decades because the the the current bar that exists today was the last expansion that we did in the 70s. And so it was it was fun to to take on this bra of of you know this first expansion in 50 years. So we opened it last November right before F1. 27:10.62Nick _ AmandaAnd it is additional dining space, but also mainly with a focus on large parties and private dining, which is a tremendous part of ah Vegas now with with all of the social parties that come in and of course all of the conventions. 27:16.19vigorbrandingGreat. 27:20.66vigorbrandingSure. 27:25.69Nick _ Amandaand and we kept We kept everything as, you know, it was very inspired, of course, by the existing space. So ah wood paneling, which is a huge part of the existing restaurant or the the original restaurant, it was kept. The carpet is the same. We kept the popcorn ceiling. So its it was a very fun conversation with our designer and architects before we even started construction. 27:53.76Nick _ AmandaWe walked through the existing space to to kind of get some ah design ideas. And we were talking about the ceilings. And I was like, well, of course we have to keep the popcorn ceilings because we have the popcorn ceilings in the existing space. And our designer looked at us and she’s like, you know, I’ve taken a lot of popcorn ceilings out in my career, but I’ve never actually had a clock that wanted to put them in. And, you know, of course, would it be our first choice if we were just, you know, starting from scratch? Maybe not. 28:19.14Nick _ Amandaah But it’s a part of the history and kind of the rounded coving of where the walls meet the ceiling is a part of that. 28:19.44vigorbrandingThat’s it. 28:27.28vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. 28:27.44Nick _ AmandaAnd so all of those pieces that we that we could we took the, you know, we have ah this beautiful um circular soffit that is in the main dining room. And we also created a similar one in one of the the new rooms as well, just to make people continue to feel like this is this is an extension, you know, no different than what the steer has done over the six decades of, you know, continuing to um to kind of grow and do it in a way that that is in harmony with the with the rest of the space. So it’s been and we but to 29:03.30Nick _ Amandaum I guess I’ll just say we were very excited so when we opened it the first night we did a friends and family dinner and the first couple that walked in they gave us a hug and ah she was super excited she’s like oh congratulations on the opening like and we were at this time we we greeted people in the new space so she walked into the new space gave us a hug and she’s like after the hug she’s like all right this is awesome congratulations can we see the new space but she was standing in the new space and asked to see it and really made a smile. 29:32.74Nick _ AmandaAnd that was kind of the goal that folks wouldn’t have any idea that they were standing in a space. 29:34.02vigorbrandingah 29:36.59vigorbrandingYou have to pump like some old cigar smoke in the seat cushions right in the new place. 29:39.18Nick _ AmandaWe didn’t know about that. All right. 29:40.74vigorbrandingyeah 29:41.52Nick _ AmandaThe joke was the mill workers that I was going to have, you know, bring in like four and five year olds with like keys and like socks to like mark up the woodwork to make it look aged. 29:50.06vigorbrandingYeah. That’s awesome. That is awesome. All right. So now I’m going to ask you, that you know, I’ve read that the the steer has the best steaks on earth and I’ve had a phenomenal, absolutely. I concur. um Now you’re the couple that makes the best steaks. I’m going to give you something personal. man I’m going to start with you. ah What’s your favorite cut and how do you like it cooked? 30:08.78Nick _ AmandaThat’s easy, ribeye 100%, absolutely. Medium rare and always with, if I can, I really like our maturity butter. I think we did a great job with it. So I like to put that on top. 30:17.99vigorbrandingWell done. Well done, Nick. 30:22.50Nick _ AmandaWhy, i the our ribeye is our signature cut, 24 ounce bone in. If, and I won’t pick that, but I would say actually the strip loin, our New York strip, our 16 ounce New York strip is is probably my go to now. I think it’s the perfect blend between, you know filet of course is delicious if you’re looking for that, very lean, tender. A ribeye is fantastic, great marbling. 30:46.92Nick _ AmandaA good bite and I think the the strip kind of plays right in between those It’s got good fat for good flavor, but it’s still got some good tenderness. We butcher all of the meat in house. So everyone’s Steak is cut fresh that day which I think really adds to that element of freshness and we wet age everything for a minimum of 28 days to to bring a little tenderization to to the meat and It’s a ton of fun. 31:16.48Nick _ Amandaand We cook, it we we keep it old school. We cook on commercial broilers, uh, that really help us kind of measure the amount of char that we’re getting, uh, you know, based on kind of the, the distance from the heat source. 31:29.86Nick _ AmandaSo it’s a very old school. I think the broiler broiler is as old as Sergio is. 31:34.84vigorbrandingI was going to say evening, bought him a new broiler. 31:35.26Nick _ AmandaUh, 31:37.20vigorbrandingHe’s been there all these years. 31:38.45Nick _ Amandahe likes the old one. 31:38.62vigorbrandingThe guy can, he needs a new broiler. 31:40.40Nick _ AmandaHe likes, he knows how it works. yeah He likes the old one. 31:42.08vigorbrandingThat’s it. That’s awesome. Yeah. That’s great. Now, Amanda uses the butter. What do you, any, anything you’d like to add to your steak? 31:49.44Nick _ AmandaNo, I like to keep it traditional and classic. 31:51.93vigorbrandingSo I’m kind of in between both guys. I’m always a ribeye. I did Devone in at your place, phenomenal. I don’t put anything on my steak. So I just, I’m, and I love ribeyes. I, you know, there’s probably a healthier steak out there. 32:02.72vigorbrandingThey’re filet, but I figure, you know, my deathbed, I’m not going to wish I ate more filets. I’m always going to eat a ribeye. So ribeye and a big bottle of Cabernet or an amaron. 32:07.23Nick _ Amandaah great a hundred 32:10.30vigorbrandingI love amaron lines. Oh, that’s like heaven on earth. I’m hungry. um So, I mean, yeah, so so nothing on your stake. um is is If someone wants to put a catch up, is there any judgment? 32:22.36vigorbrandingHow do we feel about that? 32:22.65Nick _ AmandaThere’s not, there’s not. 32:23.52vigorbrandingNot? 32:23.88Nick _ AmandaAnd I think so for us, that comes back to the hospitality piece, right? 32:24.04vigorbrandingOkay. 32:27.63Nick _ AmandaAt the end of the day, we’re serving you your steak. So if you want ketchup or you want A1 or Heinz 57, or you want it butterflied and well done, ah no no judgment from us. 32:40.62vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 32:41.32Nick _ AmandaWe’re going to prepare it the way that you want, ah which I think is is important because you’re you know you’re coming in to celebrate and so who are we to to to say that you can’t have it that way? 32:51.78vigorbrandingsee see but that’s what we do differ a little bit because I do judge and and I love I love my wife but she’s always well done steaks well done we were we were in Italy and the steak Florentine right and they make their steak Florentine it’s just aged and it’s basically they make it one way they only make it one way and she and you know and very expensive and to your point it’s it’s your your your time your money people should be there she walked in and she asked the waiter she said 32:54.86Nick _ Amandaand Yeah. 33:18.17vigorbrandingI know I probably shouldn’t ask this because they make it well done. He’s like Sure, but I’d rather I’d like to recommend the filet for you. He would not sell her the the t-bone the steak Florentine He would I he’s like I will get you a filet That’s all you’re allowed to have and she was happy that she was okay with but that’s that’s the truth I have one other anecdote like when I started my my illustrious career Like like I and like I think a lot of people did and I think everyone should you start in a restaurant I just think that is like The greatest education anyone can have that and I think everyone should have to sell something like I don’t care if it’s like ah ah subs for your baseball team or Girl Scout. I think everyone should sell something and everyone should work in a restaurant and in my ah my illustrious career. I started out at this restaurant and it was a 34:02.41vigorbrandinga gentleman by the name of Hobart Umberger, and and he he had a restaurant he did very, very well with. He had a bunch of restaurants at one time called Um-ee’s, just a local fair. It wasn’t like, it was like all one-offs. When he was getting ready for retirement, 34:15.31vigorbrandingOr as he aged, he didn’t need money and he didn’t care about serving a million meals. He wanted to make everything by hand by himself. So he created this thing called Hobarts. It was high end, very high end. Hershey, Pennsylvania. So we would get a lot of people in from the factory, a lot of dignitaries, lots ah lots of C-sweep types of folks. He had one bottle of ketchup. One. And it was next to a knife. 34:36.89vigorbrandingin the kitchen next, behind him. And inevitably Hannah was the waitress. I can still picture it like it was a, he’d be, and he did these things, these tornadoes of beef. He would do these center cuts of the filet and he was very proud of those. And inevitably it would be this thing and Hannah would be all nervous and stuff. she open the door in the kitchen. 34:53.71vigorbrandingI was washing dishes, by the way. And she’d be like, Hobart, I don’t want to hear any shit. this I know you’re going to yell. I need to catch up. And he would be like, he’d start throwing stuff. 35:04.41vigorbrandingAnd he’s like hey do and he’d be banging stuff. And he was like, who the hell? And he knew because he made everything by hand. and He made it. He was like, that’s the guy. There’s just sort of the plays. The tornado is a beef. 35:14.76vigorbrandingAnd he’s like, there I’ll be damned if I’m going to have my cake. Anyway, so i I’m glad we had that question. here Because it’s a it’s a thing. 35:20.38Nick _ Amandaah i edit a hundred percent and and but we We like to have these conversations because a lot of folks share your perspective, um and which you know in some sense i can I can understand and empathize with. but i think we I will say to you know to the the story you told about your wife in Italy, 35:40.38Nick _ AmandaWe will recommend, so I think a good example is like the tomahawk. So we we offer a 40 ounce tomahawk and it’s a tomahawk ribeye cut. so it’s that So it has a good amount of fat in it. 35:50.13vigorbrandingOh, yeah. 35:52.39Nick _ AmandaAnd so one of the places that we will do some recommendations is if someone comes in and orders the tomahawk rare, we will maybe suggest like, hey, um, because it’s, if you want it rare, some of that fat is not going to render out. 36:07.65vigorbrandingMm hmm. 36:07.83Nick _ AmandaAnd so it’s going to be a little, it could come across as a little tougher, a little gristly. And so there will be some times that we’ll make some recommendations, but, um, at the end of the day, folks are are ordering what they would like. 36:18.37Nick _ AmandaAnd I think for us, it comes back to that hospitality piece of, you know, we want you to feel warm and welcomed, uh, and I don’t know if you can feel too welcome if you order a captive and you’re taken and you hear the shaft in the back laying in top of his pants. 36:33.46vigorbrandingAnd he did and he but he didn’t care like he was like he would actually would rather them left because him at his point in life He was just an artist and he wasn’t looking for money and it was just that was his like ah Passion project. 36:38.34Nick _ Amandaah I’m sorry. 36:43.68vigorbrandingSo it’s just yeah, it’s crazy. But sorry. So now we’ve got we’ve we have a phenomenal steak you guys make the best steak on earth What sides you have a lot of sides what which sides are we getting? I mean everyone’s got their go-to’s at a steakhouse. 36:54.91vigorbrandingWhat do we got in here? 36:57.19Nick _ AmandaOh, so I always loved the twice baked potato. I think it’s phenomenal. 37:00.35vigorbrandingI 37:00.52Nick _ AmandaI think it’s our go-to. We actually at one point were featured in, there was like a Idaho potato Gazette that came out and asked for an interview. 37:05.84vigorbrandingNice. 37:07.11Nick _ AmandaCause they’re like, Oh, we’ve heard that you’ve got the biggest potatoes. I was like, well, if it’s coming from the Idaho potato Gazette, I’m pretty honored to hear that. 37:12.47vigorbranding<unk> That’s great. 37:13.86Nick _ AmandaYeah. The twice baked is great. And then our cream corn. I love our cream corn. uh it’s got it it certainly got its sweetness from the corn and then we use cinnamon and i heard a customer described it as like it’s like taking a bite of christmas and i hadn’t heard that before and i was like that’s the perfectly summarized is kind of the cream corn and so it’s the i love to take a little cut of steak kind of 37:24.23vigorbrandingThere you go. 37:44.26Nick _ Amandadrag it through the cream corn a little bit to get some of that sweetness. And it’s ah to for me, it’s one of the most perfect bites. 37:49.86vigorbrandingFantastic. That’s awesome. And then what for dessert, I think I know the answer to this, but. 37:55.20Nick _ AmandaI mean, we i Our tableside desserts, they’re a ton of fun, right? 38:01.76vigorbrandingYep. 38:01.89Nick _ AmandaAnytime you’re going to light something on fire for a dessert, it’s awesome. 38:03.48vigorbrandingYeah, sure. 38:05.77Nick _ AmandaBut I think, you know, it’s in their classic, in their pure, in their simple, ah but executed very well. So, I mean, I’m partial. We do two tableside flambe options. 38:16.73Nick _ AmandaOur bananas foster our cherries jubilee. 38:18.43vigorbrandingMm hmm. 38:19.15Nick _ AmandaI am partial to the bananas. I think we use brown sugar with it. and A little banana liqueur, some 151, a little orange zest, and it is it is excellent. 38:27.87vigorbrandingnice 38:30.02Nick _ AmandaBut a Amanda has a separate opinion. So we ran this interesting test where a problem we were running into was, you know, when people make a reservation at the Valencia, let’s say states it’s a party of six, only one of you are probably giving us your information, whether it’s your phone or your email or what have you. 38:44.13Nick _ AmandaAnd so if you want to continue to build a relationship online with the rest of the party in there. 38:48.04vigorbrandingNice. 38:48.67Nick _ AmandaHow do you get them to go to your site or engage or have some sort of a back? 38:50.40vigorbrandingMhm. 38:52.28Nick _ AmandaAnd so we realized that what is really strong is our social media presence. We are one of the most, if not the most vile restaurant in America on TikTok. We just passed 175 million views of hashtag gold. 39:02.98vigorbrandingWow. 39:03.56Nick _ Amandayeah And so we were like, okay, what can we do to combine this in honor of our 65th? And how do we create what I call an organic trigger? So if you’re dining, you can do something else. And so I was like, okay, let’s play with the flames. What can we do? That’s going to be a flaming dessert that can be exciting, that can be different. And so we worked and created something called the Sapphire Jubilee in honor of the 65th anniversary. And of course you like throw some blue in there at the server’s head of it because they were always covered in like blue dust on their white shirts. 39:30.90Nick _ AmandaIt was a little messy, but it was fabulous. And it really did turn bright blue flames. And so the I was like, okay, let’s try it. We’re going to make it where you can only order it if you have the code word from TikTok or Instagram. 39:42.30vigorbrandingWow, I like it. 39:44.36Nick _ AmandaWe’ll look up on there or say something. Or then ah when the server says that to them, if they’ll follow us or try and find it. And sure enough, I was like, I have no idea how this is going to go. First night comes. And within like the first, I guess, hour of opening, boom, somebody ordered it with the code word. I’m like, all right, we’ve got something. And it was, to this day, it’s my favorite version of that flam bazer. 40:05.22vigorbrandingThat’s excellent. oh that’s and the The marketer in me is very proud and honored. 40:08.87Nick _ Amandaa 40:09.14vigorbrandingThat’s that’s fantastic. I mean, I love it. 40:10.55Nick _ Amandayeah 40:11.44vigorbrandingReally. i’ saids that’s ah It’s awesome. 40:11.84Nick _ Amandaand since sense that it’s 40:13.45vigorbrandingum So I had the banana foster and it was wonderful. 40:14.75Nick _ Amandaso as foster 40:17.86vigorbrandingum i So I have one last question for you guys, and and then you’re free to go. And you can’t say the golden steer, but if you have one final meal, what would you eat and why? 40:31.11Nick _ AmandaSo for me, ah it’s risotto. Risotto was probably one of the first dishes that I really started to make during culinary school and just kind of fell in love with. I am ah studied in Rome, Italian heritage, and i i love like to me, it’s like, 40:55.32Nick _ Amandasuch a pure distillation of Italian cooking. right it’s very at the At its core, it’s very simple, but there’s a lot of ways that you can that you can go wrong with it. um And it takes some work, right? You have to be standing over it with your wooden spoon, kind of slowly adding stock. 41:14.38Nick _ AmandaAnd it’s also a it’s kind of also almost a blank palate. So you can add orabela mushrooms or butternut squash or asparagus or any number of things. And so I think I would i love risotto and that would probably be my, that would be my five if I had to pick a final dish, that would be it. 41:33.19vigorbrandingNice. Amanda, you can say Nick’s risotto if you want. 41:34.49Nick _ Amandaand think 41:35.93vigorbrandingI mean, ah, nice. 41:36.61Nick _ AmandaIt’s close to that. So Nick was actually, was very kind and he he knows this well, but something that he makes for me on all of the special occasions is a beef wellington. And I’m very picky about how I like my beef wellington and all the things and he’s like really nailed it down. 41:51.40Nick _ AmandaI wasn’t before, he’s now like spoiled me and I blame him all the time. I’m like, you’ve created the monster here. So it would be the beef wellington that Nick does make for me because I do it amazing and it’s my favorite. 41:59.24vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Guys, I want to thank you. 42:01.92Nick _ Amandai 42:02.99vigorbrandingThis was fantastic. Like I said, the first time I ever had a couple and you guys were great. There was no fighting. It was close. I thought there for a while over the desserts, but that was good. 42:07.74Nick _ Amandayeah 42:09.71vigorbrandingThat was good. You guys do great. So thank you so much. It was my honor to talk to you guys and I really appreciate your time. 42:14.97Nick _ AmandaWell, thank you so much for having us on, Michael. low was ah It was an awesome conversation. We certainly appreciate being here. 42:20.11vigorbrandingGood deal. 42:20.09Nick _ AmandaPleasure.

Anand is the Founder and Managing Partner of Gala Capital Partners, a diversified investment and holding company with interests in chain restaurants, software & technology, real estate development, franchising and public equities investment. He has spent the past 35 years in various executive capacities within the Software, Real Estate & Restaurant Industries.Gala Capital Partners invests in (among other things) restaurants. The current portfolio includes CiCi’s Pizza, Famous Dave’s Barbeque, Rusty Taco and MOOYAH Burgers, Fries & Shakes.Anand grew up in the restaurant industry. His mother was an early franchisee with Jack in the Box. Anand’s parents knew the restaurant industry was a difficult career path, so they encouraged Anand to pursue other careers. He graduated from USC with a degree in biology, but he was drawn back into the family business and fell in love with it all over again. When it comes to restaurants to invest in, Gala Capital Partners focuses on five key categories: burgers, chicken, tacos/Mexican, pizza and coffee. The brands that Gala Capital Partners focus on are between 25-350 units. They call those “adolescent brands.”  When evaluating successful franchises, Anand starts with the quality of the food. Focusing on quality and taste is the easiest way for a restaurant to stand out from the competition.  QUOTES “(The restaurant industry) is usually the first job for many young adults and teenagers. It teaches them work ethic, it teaches them responsibility.” (Anand)“When I returned to the (restaurant) business after university, I realized I could learn about finance, I could learn about accounting, I could learn about marketing, I could learn about HR, I could learn about IT, I could get into real estate. It was so multi-dimensional. It was remarkable and it just captivated me.” (Anand) “There were many, many humbling experiences. When you’re 25 you have a great deal of confidence and bravado. I had a couple lessons that I learned the hard way and I think I’m far better off for it today.” (Anand) “I’d encourage each and every (restaurant) executive to go work a week and do that every single year. You don’t know what a franchisee goes through and you don’t know what a store manager goes through until you’ve done it.” (Anand)“Each and every one of our restaurant brands plays a significant role in how you serve the customer.” (Anand) “Our typical franchisee and the ideal profile is somebody who is new to franchising and really wants to get into the business and work in the business and be hands on in the stores. Or it’s going to be someone in a smaller market of the family business and they’ve got anywhere from 3 to 30 locations and they really love being hands on and involved.” (Anand) “We want very active and hands on operators. People who want to be there and build relationships with their leadership teams, with their managers, with their employees. They want to participate and support their local communities. Those are the folks we’re looking for.” (Anand)  TRANSCRIPT 00:01.44vigorbrandingHello, everyone. Today’s guest is Anand Gala of Gala Capital Partners. Put simply, Anand is an investor, and one of those investments is restaurants. But I’ve known him for quite a while, and I’m always blown away by his stories, his growth, and and everything in between. So this will be a great conversation. Anand, welcome to Fork Tales. Thanks for doing this program. 00:25.38Anand GalaAbsolutely. My pleasure. Thanks for having me, Michael. 00:28.50vigorbrandingPerfect. Well, hey, so I know we were talking, catching up a little bit before because I’m fortunate to have known you for a while. um You know, I was saying, when people hear about Gala Capital Partners, it sounds ah very regal, which it is. It’s an amazing company and the growth is is astronomical, which we’ll talk about, but it didn’t really all start out that way, did it? 00:47.08Anand GalaYou know, no, it’s everybody’s got a, everybody’s got a story. I guess you can say everybody’s got a story. And mine is um is probably very familiar. 00:58.92Anand Galato many others that are you know that were raised in immigrant families that that came from humble beginnings. And it’s just a story of a lot of hard work. It’s a story of intentionality by my family, by my parents to really invest in me ah in an education around operations and around entrepreneurship that candidly none of us really knew we were doing at the time. 01:24.49vigorbrandingYeah, I mean, you you were literally, I think when I first met you, you you were a child basically being babysat by the dishwasher, right? You were in the restaurants at a young, young age. Talk a little bit about that. 01:34.34Anand GalaYeah, absolutely. So my mom was a franchisee of Jack in the Box. And that was early on when they just began franchising. I think she might have been franchisee number two. 01:45.49vigorbrandingWow. 01:45.60Anand GalaAnd that was 1982 or 83. I must have been eight or nine years old. And she started working 16, 18, 20 hours a day because you know that’s what an operator does. 01:56.08Anand GalaThat’s what an entrepreneur does. You have to figure it out. And I just didn’t see her very often. And so therefore, the best way for her to make sure that she had an eye on me and I spent time with her was for her to bring me to work. And that was daycare. That was after school care. That was vacations and holiday care. You know, that’s what it was. That’s how I spent my time. And so I literally grew up in the back of a restaurant ah and in some cases standing on a milk crate so I could see over the front counter and and talk to customers. But that that was it within eyesight and earshot. 02:27.89vigorbrandingThat’s great. And you know, the the restaurant business has to be in your blood. And obviously, yeah it was literally infused in you from a young age. And I think that’s, ah again, i you can’t help to learn, you can’t help to see. I think it’s one of the most incredible experiences ah for anybody ah is to work in a restaurant. You learn a lot about sales, you learn a lot about people, about hustle, about ah yeah just everything in in between, dealing with problems on your feet. When someone complains, it’s ah it’s ah it’s a phenomenal way to ah get an education, that’s for sure. 02:57.22Anand GalaAbsolutely. and i’ll And I’ll take it a step further. I think it’s fascinating because it not only teaches you all of the things that you mentioned, it’s usually the first job for many young adults or or teenagers. 03:07.18vigorbrandingMm hmm. 03:09.41Anand GalaIt teaches them work ethic. It teaches them responsibility. And one thing that candidly, I’m not sure how it gets taught other than maybe in the home or or through your church or temple or or what have you, 03:22.08Anand GalaBut it’s respect for others, regardless of the position that they’re in. ah It’s an appreciation for hard work and how much it takes to really earn a dollar. 03:32.67Anand GalaAnd the fact that people do what they do so that they can support themselves, their families, have some spending money, develop some independence, it’s remarkable. And, you know, those are lessons and values that don’t get taught very often in many other places. 03:46.25vigorbrandingYeah, no doubt. So okay, so you you youre you’re you’re young, you’re in the restaurant, you’re you’re eight, then you go to USC, right? And you you graduate with a degree in biology. ah So that was, you weren’t on the restaurant path, I don’t think at that point. So what happened there? Where were you headed? Where did you go? And where did how did you end up here? 04:04.53Anand GalaYeah, it’s, you know, don’t don’t all good restaurant operators go into the sciences? Of course. ah it it it is a It is a fascinating path and it’s one that, ah you know, my my parents recognized how hard the restaurant business was. And they wanted my brother and I to have a better life. They wanted us to get an education and and really not have to go through the trials and tribulations that they went through, as every parent wants for their children. 04:31.20Anand GalaSo they thought, hey, we’ll have our kids become doctors. ah That would be great. And I thought, boy, wouldn’t medical school be easier than running a restaurant until I, you know, I i took the ah med school entrance exams and and I tried a couple of interviews for for med schools and I realized that’s not what I wanted to do. I probably should have come to that conclusion much, much earlier in college, but I waited until the end. 04:54.40Anand GalaAnd, ah you know, I thought, okay, I’ll just go help out in the family business, because I know how to do that. And my parents thought, okay, you know, he’s gonna realize how hard this is, and he’ll change his mind quickly and run to med school. And as I got back into the business, I realized how much it just came second nature, how much I truly enjoyed it. And candidly, how much it had to offer. When I was growing up, I thought, boy, the only thing it has to offer is operations. 05:21.61Anand GalaAnd I got a great education and experience in operations. But when I returned to the business after university, I realized I can learn about finance. I can learn about accounting. I can learn about marketing. I can learn about HR. I can learn about IT. t I can get into real estate. there It was so multidimensional. It was remarkable. And it just captivated me. It drew me in. And I had an insatiable curiosity and appetite to learn. 05:47.54Anand Galaand And so every single day it drew me in further and further and further to the point that there was just no return. This was it. 05:54.51vigorbrandingthat’s That’s, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. Well, so I mean, now we’ll jump into to to to life after after school, you you get involved as a is a franchisee, correct? That’s what you that’s that was your first sort of for you were young, I think you bought your first franchise, right? 06:11.11Anand GalaYeah, that’s right. So you know growing up in the restaurant space was fantastic. But the challenge at the time within Jack in the Box was there were a limited number of franchisees that were allowed to expand. And it was because the company was in a very large expansion phase for itself. And so in large markets like Houston and Los Angeles where we operated, there simply weren’t that many opportunities for us because the company had already scouted them out and had already tied them up. 06:40.93Anand GalaSo I left the family business when I was 25 and I became ah I think the youngest franchisee for Applebee’s and started building stores throughout California the exact same time same year I became I believe also the youngest franchisee for Del Taco at the time. 06:59.02vigorbrandingwow 06:59.12Anand GalaAnd I was 25 years old. I was building Applebee’s from Bakersfield to Fresno and and later in the Bay Area and was building Del Taco restaurants outside of Sacramento and Modesto and Stockton and small markets there as well as in Phoenix, Arizona. And so I was traveling a lot and I think when you’re young and you’re not married and you don’t have other responsibilities and You’ve got a lot of energy. 07:22.40Anand Galaah You can really you know push the push the pedal. And so I did. I learned a great deal during that period of time. And I learned a lot about what ah what I did know and what I didn’t know. 07:31.09vigorbrandingY 07:33.97Anand GalaI’ll tell you, there were many, many humbling experiences. 07:35.59vigorbranding‘all bet. 07:37.63Anand GalaBecause when you’re 25, you have a great deal of confidence and bravado. And I had a couple of lessons that I learned the hard way. And um I think i’m I’m far better off for it today. 07:49.97vigorbrandingYeah, we’ve learned a lot more from our mistakes and our wins, that’s for sure. 07:53.08Anand GalaYeah. 07:53.18vigorbrandingAnd ah so it’s it’s interesting too, because we’ll talk about this in a moment, but I mean, you know, obviously, ah you know, at Vigor, we do marketing for restaurants, and we deal with ah franchisees, and we deal with franchisors, the folks that own the brand and control the brand. 08:07.88vigorbrandingAnd and sometimes there’s, there’s dissension among the ranks. I mean, there’s, you know, and you’re you’re you’re on both sides of it. So I’ll be really interested to hear your perspective on the whole thing. 08:18.23Anand GalaYeah, yeah it’s it’s been a fascinating journey, having been a franchisee from 83 all the way to or 82, I guess all the way to, I think about 2014 is when we finally ah decided we were going to start selling and not start selling the brands, but we exited most of the brands that we were involved in. 08:35.37vigorbrandingMm hmm. 08:37.22Anand GalaAnd so prior to that, we had sold our jack in the box business and sold our Del Taco business and, and then by 2014 sold our Applebee’s business. And we we still our franchisees a famous day’s barbecue in California. 08:46.15vigorbrandingMm hmm. 08:49.86Anand Galaah But then starting in 2017, we started investing in and acquiring small franchiseurs. And what’s interesting is we took a very different approach to being a franchisor. Having walked a mile in the shoes of the franchisee, literally, and still being a franchisee, i I fundamentally understand the approach to business and the relationship that a franchisee has. And I try to bring that knowledge and experience and insight to the relationship that we bring as a franchisor. 09:23.64Anand GalaWe acknowledge that a franchisee makes their money off the bottom line and a franchisor makes their money off the top line. That being said, discounting your royalty is not the solution you because you want a financially strong franchisor that has the capital to make the investments in the people and the systems and the resources to really drive your business. 09:45.68Anand GalaIf you cut the royalty down to call it 1%, what’s left for them? 09:45.83vigorbrandingThat’s right. 09:48.63vigorbrandingMhm. 09:50.10Anand Galayou’re not gonna get the best talent, you’re not gonna get the best support. And so it becomes a vicious cycle if you go down that road. I think that what most franchisees ah do focus on and and I think many recognize is rather than try to reduce the royalty, let’s drive accountability and expectations with the franchise or to say we expect best in class marketing, best in class leadership, best in class operations, 10:11.11vigorbrandingMhm. 10:17.38Anand Galaum And so please make sure that you’re hiring those people, make sure that you’re driving those attributes ah through the brands, because that’s what makes us better. you know Please invest in us, please support us. And that’s how we try to bring the parties together. That doesn’t mean that we’re free of any discontent from time to time, but that’s our responsibility is to work through that. 10:42.35vigorbrandingSure. I mean, I’ve always said and I feel very strongly that empathy is probably one of the more powerful like emotions, if you will, and you know, understanding both sides of it from where you’re your you seat from growing up in it. And then being on the other side, it’s I think that’s very powerful to have that that understanding that that that intelligence that hey, I understand I’ve been in your shoes. I know what’s important to you. Here’s what’s important. And and there’s this partnership, right? 11:06.60vigorbrandingIt’s almost like you treat them with as family. ands they’re’re’re They’re a part of your company because they are. i mean they’re They’re your brand. right They’re an extension of it. 11:13.80Anand GalaAbsolutely, and I would even go a step further and I’d encourage each and every executive or leader in a franchise or to go work a week and do that every single year in the stores because honestly, you don’t know what a franchisee goes through. 11:23.83vigorbrandingYeah. Mm-hmm. 11:29.38Anand GalaYou don’t know what a store manager goes through until you’ve done it. You you may have the the best degrees on the wall. um and and lots of experience from lots of other brands, but until you really walk a mile and and do what they do, ah then I think you build a tremendous amount of credibility and and candidly empathy at the same time. 11:49.25vigorbrandingSure. 11:49.40Anand GalaSo I think it helps you connect with with lots of operators and franchisees. 11:55.71vigorbrandingThat’s great. So, okay. So one of your biggest investments was Muyah, burgers, fries, and shakes. Okay. So, and i I was fortunate. 12:01.37Anand GalaYeah. 12:02.41vigorbrandingI actually came out to see you. I was out in California and I ate at one of your, at one of your restaurants. Phenomenal. It was a great ah burger. I’m not just saying that now, but the thing is there’s lots of burgers out there. And I was quoted on a previous podcast. 12:13.42vigorbrandingah I had a gentleman by the name of Audley Wilson on who created a robo burger, which is the yeah ah basically the burger vending machine. 12:18.71Anand GalaYeah, yeah. 12:21.05vigorbrandingAnd, you know, ah my my line my line was no one American ever went bankrupt trying to feed America hamburgers. So, I mean, but there’s a lot of competition out there, isn’t there? I mean, how does how do you guys stand out? 12:30.45Anand Galathere There is. 12:31.03vigorbrandingI mean, you know, I mean, I know it’s ah a phenomenal product with great ingredients, but talk talk a little bit about dumuya. 12:38.44Anand GalaWell, i’ll I’ll frame it in a way that I think you’ll definitely get and I’m sure your audience will get, which is why compete with everybody else? Why play their game? they you know If you’re playing somebody else’s game, then you are automatically at a disadvantage because they’ve been playing it a lot longer. 12:54.46vigorbrandingMm hmm. 12:56.28Anand GalaThey created the rules. They’ve been doing this for a while and they know how to win. They’re gonna tilt the deck in their in their favor. So I think you have to decide what you do that is distinct, that is different. How do you define yourself? And so at Mujah, it’s a very simple approach. It’s better ingredients, it’s better quality, it’s better tasting, ah and it’s done with more hospitality, and it’s done fresh in store every day. And so that’s the approach we take, is that we wanna have fresh, never frozen meat, and we want it to be certified Angus beef, 13:33.11Anand Galawe fresh bake our buns in the stores every day, we hand cut our fries, you know, we only use the highest quality ingredients, and we don’t make anything until you order it. So these are all of the different things that we think are distinct and unique. 13:48.02Anand GalaAnd, you know, nobody ever um disliked high quality and great taste. 13:54.56vigorbrandingright 13:54.79Anand GalaSo our perspective is we’re going to compete on taste, on quality, on service, on experience. Now that may cost a little bit more, but candidly when you put it all together and you’re doing sort of the value formula, it still comes out to be a tremendous value because of what you get, not what you pay. 14:13.95vigorbrandingYeah, no doubt. So, okay, burgers aren’t your only restaurant. You’re you’re involved with a portfolio. you have You have pizza, tacos, coffee, and everything in between. what What criteria do you use when evaluating which restaurants to invest in? 14:27.84Anand GalaWell, your statement earlier, which was nobody ever lost money selling hamburgers to Americans, I would take it a step further and say, you know, there’s a bunch of different categories where 14:37.50vigorbrandingYeah. 14:38.40Anand GalaThe world already knows what you do and how to use your business or your product or your brand. And so we focus on five primary categories. That doesn’t mean that we won’t look at and invest in things around the periphery as well. But those five categories are burger, chicken, tacos or Mexican pizza and coffee. And not only are they pervasive in American society and candidly, I think foundational. 15:04.85Anand Galaum But I think that what American society culture and its tremendous marketing ah machine behind so many of its companies has done a great job of is exporting that culture around the world. 15:14.31vigorbrandingYeah. 15:18.82Anand GalaI can open up a coffee joint anywhere in the world and I can guarantee you that that local community knows exactly how to use that brand, that product, that concept. The same is true with pizza. The same is true with chicken. 15:30.19Anand GalaThe same is true with tacos and Mexican food. and And thank God for the Taco Bells and the Chipotle’s and so many others that have blazed a trail before us. um and And that end is, it for example, just in the Mexican category, but the same is true in each and every one of those categories. 15:48.21Anand GalaSo our primary focus is within these five big categories. 15:51.97vigorbrandingMm hmm. 15:52.18Anand GalaWe love these brands and we think we can bring a higher quality, better experience approach to each and every one of them. 15:59.57vigorbrandingIt’s fantastic. So you went from being a franchisee to now you own these brands and you own is it rusty taco, you have CC’s pizza, Dunn Brothers coffee, Muyah burger, what am I missing one? 16:12.76Anand GalaNope, that’s it, that’s it. 16:13.57vigorbrandingIs that it? 16:13.90Anand Galathose are the those Those are the main ones, yeah, absolutely. 16:14.05vigorbrandingOkay, good. I nailed it. Yeah, yeah. That’s fantastic. 16:17.73Anand GalaYeah, so we’ve we’ve we’ve invested in these brands and some of them we’ve got partners and you know we’re just excited. 16:18.25vigorbrandingSo 16:23.95Anand Galawe We think that each and every one of them plays a significant role in how you serve the customer. So for example, Cece’s Pizza is a buffet concept. 16:35.11Anand Galaum And people, you know they they may attribute buffet with a lower quality. I’ll tell you, if you walked into the back of a Cece’s, Everything is fresh. They make their dough in-store fresh every single day. 16:46.57Anand GalaThe quality of the ingredients is really, really high. in And I was very surprised by that. I mean, it’s it’s a really high quality product. um So I encourage folks to go and focus on the quality because you can’t go wrong. 16:58.93vigorbrandingHmm. 17:01.08Anand GalaYou’re you’re always going to have a better tasting product with a higher quality product. 17:02.21vigorbrandingHmm. That’s great. So now on the opposite end there, so how how do you then ah interview or evaluate potential like franchisees or investors? 17:15.40vigorbrandingHow does that work? I mean, again, playing both sides, these are your babies now. And you know you don’t want to just hand that that off to someone who’s got some money enough money to buy it. 17:19.65Anand GalaYeah. 17:23.70vigorbrandingit’s you know There’s got to be a lot more to it than that, especially for all the care that you put into it. 17:28.63Anand GalaWell, the brands that we focus on tend to be anywhere from 25 to 350 units. 17:33.92vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 17:34.33Anand GalaAnd so we call those adolescent brands. They’re past proof of concept. They’re in a couple of markets. um Maybe they’ve already started franchising. And you know maybe they’ve just hit a speed bump somewhere. 17:45.32Anand GalaMaybe they’re just out of favor. They’re not very sexy. But they are great businesses. As we think about it, every brand goes through a cycle. And there’s a cycle of of evolution and then innovation and then scaling up and so forth. 17:55.57vigorbrandingMm hmm. 18:00.85Anand GalaAnd so the same franchisee that’s a 300 unit KFC or Taco Bell franchisee may not be an ideal candidate for what we do. because they’re focused on scale. They’re focused on large markets controlling big pieces of the business. And candidly, we’re focused on folks that are really involved in their market. So our our typical franchisee and probably the the ideal profile of our franchisee is gonna be somebody who is either new to franchising but really wants to get into the business and work in their business um and and be hands-on and in the stores. 18:38.32Anand Galaor it’s gonna be somebody that’s probably in a smaller market or it’s a family business and they’ve got anywhere from three to 30 locations amongst whatever they’re involved in. 18:48.51vigorbrandingYeah. 18:50.53Anand GalaAnd they they really love being very hands-on, not to mean that they’re in the stores every day all the time, but they really enjoy being involved in their business. It’s not going to be just an investment for them. 19:03.06Anand GalaThey really they they believe this is it. And so we want very active hands-on operators. that’s the That’s the easiest way for us to describe them. ah and And so when somebody really knows their business, they know their business and they want to be there. 19:16.69Anand GalaThey want to, you know, build relationships with their with their leadership teams, with their managers, with their employees. They want to participate and support their local communities. Those are the folks that we’re looking for. 19:28.70Anand GalaAnd those are the ones that that do the best in our organization. 19:28.83vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. 19:31.48vigorbrandingmost successful at the end of the day, right? 19:32.98Anand GalaYeah, absolutely. 19:33.61vigorbrandingVery cool. Probably like ah your mom was, right? When she started out, you know? 19:36.82Anand GalaThat’s right. That’s right. 19:39.60vigorbrandingI mean, it you know, it all comes back around. So when when you look at like a successful growing restaurants or I guess brands to maybe invest in or buy, um is there a common denominator? Is it always like that sort of fresh type of thing? 19:50.01vigorbrandingOr is there anything that you have in your criteria that you’re that you’re really kind of honing in on as far as there’s something you’re seeing in the market that you that you’re that you find to be ah ah successful or you think will be successful? 20:01.93Anand GalaYou know, the the ingredients are very simple. um First and foremost, we start with the food. And interestingly, a lot of people look at franchises and they just see it as a business. 20:13.19Anand GalaThey don’t think of it as what does the business do. So we always, as I mentioned earlier, we have a ah disproportionate focus on quality. 20:20.47vigorbrandingThat’s 20:21.19Anand GalaAnd so we start with the food. I think in in a world where there is so much commoditization and so much a sea of sameness across so many different brands and products, the the easy way to stand out is focus on quality, focus on taste. 20:23.39vigorbrandinggreat. 20:38.35Anand GalaPeople go out to eat because food tastes good. If you wanted bad food or you wanted bland food, you could probably just do that yourself. But you go to restaurants because they’re known for something. 20:49.96Anand GalaAnd so we wanna make sure that when you come in and you’re getting something that we are known for, that you say that’s a darn good, whatever it is, taco, burger, pizza, that’s a darn good ah you know beverage, coffee, tea, you know whatever that was. And you wanna say, geez, I’m glad I went out for that rather than trying to make something at home. 21:10.45Anand GalaSo distinctly, it’s gotta be darn good. Now from there, we look at the bones of the business and usually we’re investing in things that we think we can substantially improve. 21:22.44Anand GalaWhether it’s unit count, whether it’s quality or process or profitability, but if the product itself is pretty darn good, then you can work on the rest. 21:31.08vigorbrandingMm hmm. 21:31.73Anand GalaYou can figure out how to get them to better profitability, faster growth, ah yeah what whatever it may be, we think we can help. 21:32.06vigorbrandingMm hmm. 21:39.94vigorbrandingYeah. but You make a really good point, a very stupid one, especially when it comes to food. like you know Obviously, we have the vigor brand for the markets, restaurants, but we also have ah an agency called Quench. It does food and beverage and CPG. 21:51.67vigorbrandingAnd what we’ve known and noticed is you know when the economy is down, sure, there’s there’s a reason out there for dollar menus and there’s saving stuff. But you know the the place where people will, for lack of a better word, treat themselves is is what they put in their mouths, right? 22:04.79vigorbrandingI mean, so they’ll they’ll they’ll still pay for premium ice cream. 22:05.31Anand GalaAbsolutely. 22:08.35vigorbrandingwhen it’s when things aren’t so good because that’s that that little pleasure they can have it’s not it’s not you know obviously it’s not some overindulgence or ah a great expense but a great burger i mean it’s pretty it brings a lot of joy you know so yeah 22:21.99Anand GalaIt’s the little things that bring you joy. I couldn’t agree more. I’ll tell you, you know, I didn’t understand the difference in the various qualities of ice cream, ah except in the CPG aisle, right? you You knew that you could get the store brand, which was one thing. And don’t get me wrong, it’s tasty. And it’s a nice treat. Or you could go for the super premium with a very high butterfat. 22:42.97Anand GalaUm, and, and so I thought, well, geez, I guess this experience only exists in the grocery aisle until one day I tried a Brewster’s or a Handel’s ice cream. 22:53.69Anand GalaUh, and, and I was blown away. Now it’s not the kind of thing that you’re going to go for every day or every week. 22:59.51vigorbrandingRight. 23:00.35Anand GalaBut when I think about having ice cream, I can go to a lot of different places, or I can just say when I go out for ice cream. as infrequently or frequently as that is, I just wanna get something that I know is gonna be so delicious. 23:14.33vigorbrandingright. 23:15.67Anand GalaAnd I’m gonna go to the place where it’s just gonna knock my socks off. And I’ll pay just a little bit more and I’m okay with that. I just won’t do it as often. But I want it when I want and it. And I’ll tell ya, it’s the service, it’s the quality, it’s the taste. 23:29.23Anand GalaThose things combined create the addiction that you just have to have it. 23:32.64vigorbrandingThat’s it. and I’m sure in most of your brands, you have a lot of repeat clients coming in because they’re they’re getting the quality, they see the quality, they taste the quality, and it’s worth it. It’s an ongoing, probably, I’m sure it becomes habitual. so that’s That’s fantastic. so okay I want to talk about like the ru last year, I think it was last year, you bought Rusty Taco and Dunn Brothers. 23:53.84vigorbrandingum with Gala Capital. He did it with ah an all cash deal. So you didn’t take on any debt. um Talk to me about cash deals and and what are the advantages, disadvantages, and I know you’re you’re adverse to debt. I i am too. So I absolutely respect that. So talk to me a little bit about that and how you how you’ve done all that. 24:10.94Anand GalaWell, you know but in in both cases, they needed some investment. They needed some love. And if you put leverage on a business, you’ve got a lot of reporting requirements. You’ve got you know metrics that you’ve got to hit, ratios you’ve got to hit and report to your bank. It it puts constraints on you. 24:28.99Anand GalaDebt is not bad. Debt is fine. It’s a tool to grow a business. But the business has to be ready to grow in a meaningful way. And it’s got to be pretty stable and strong ah in order to continue to fulfill those criteria that your bank is going to ask you about. And in the case of these two brands, we thought that these businesses needed some work. They weren’t they weren’t bad businesses, but they just needed some work. 24:55.76Anand GalaAnd our perspective is we’d rather do that with our own money and do it in a way that we don’t have a lot of constraints on us. We can make the investments that we need to make that are for the long run. And that may be five years, 10 years, 20 years, but when you’ve got ah when you’ve got debt, you know you really need to focus on cash flow rather than making those investments that need to happen and pay off over the long period of time. 25:20.85Anand Galabecause you’ve got to service that debt. So our perspective is let’s do it where we’ve got a lot of freedom, a lot of flexibility. Let’s go ahead and make these investments. We’ll do it with all cash. And that way we’ve got a little more control over what we do, when we do, how we do. And as we get these things ready and we’re starting to grow them and scale them up, then we’ll look at what can they support reasonably. And we’ll we’ll probably put a little bit of debt on each of these businesses, but it’ll be some time in the future. 25:50.74vigorbrandingGotcha. That makes total sense. so So when you’re working on on a new franchise, um you always you make it a point to have very detailed conversations with current franchisees, which is is very smart. um How does that process work? And you know what do you learn you know from those conversations? 26:08.06Anand GalaWell, I think that there are some franchisees that candidly have just been waiting for the phone to ring so they can talk to somebody. It is fascinating to me how infrequently folks are speaking to franchisees, including executives of brands. 26:22.83Anand GalaThey think they’ve got it all figured out and they’re just gonna send the memos out and send the promotions out and everybody needs to get on board. Now, in in many cases, that may be true, but you do need, this is a team effort. You gotta remember, the franchisee puts up the money. The franchisee runs that restaurant. 26:40.17Anand Galayou You know, they’re taking more risks than the franchise or. And so you have to respect them as effectively your partner in the business. And you don’t always have to agree. They did sign an agreement. You do control the intellectual property and you’re going to set the the tone and the direction of the brand and the business. But it’s a collaboration. 27:00.32Anand Galaand And I think no different than in a successful marriage or a successful partnership or even in a successful corporate environment. You have to find a way to effectively communicate with your peers. And I consider the franchisees to be our peers. So we want to hear them. We want to listen to them. We want to take their ideas and their feedback into consideration. And ah you know, listen, we’re we’re not the ones that have it all figured out. 27:24.87Anand GalaAs the old saying goes, some of the best ideas come from the franchisees because they are toeto toe to toe face to face with the customer. 27:30.43vigorbrandingYeah. 27:31.97Anand GalaThey see the behavior. 27:32.45vigorbrandingThat’s it. 27:32.93Anand GalaThey see the interaction every single day more often than we do. That’s for sure. 27:38.07vigorbrandingYeah, they’re the boots on the ground. Have you ever backed away um from a deal based on and you certainly don’t have to mention any names, but have you ever backed away from a deal based on some feedback that you’ve heard from the franchisees? It kind of scared you off a little bit. 27:48.85Anand GalaYou know, we have, we have actually. 27:50.73vigorbrandingWow. 27:50.94Anand Galaah there There were concerns in one brand that we looked at and there were a number of franchisees that said, geez, you know, um I’m not making money. I’m losing a lot of money. I can’t keep doing this. 28:02.56Anand GalaI’m just gonna close my store down. And we heard that over and over and over again. So then you have to think to yourself, what am I really buying? And and maybe the investment banker did a great job in polishing this thing up and and putting a story behind it. 28:16.29Anand GalaBut, you know, when you really get to the reality of it, this wasn’t gonna be much of a brand for much longer. And so we have to make the hard decisions that we either are gonna say, no, thank you, or we’re gonna you know we’re going to have to recommend a price adjustment um because we think in order to really stem the stem the loss there of franchisees, we’re gonna have to put a lot of incentive in place. We’re gonna have to make a big investment into them and their marketing and their operations. And that changes the economics of a deal. 28:48.13vigorbrandingYeah, I mean, that that that that totally, totally tracks. I mean, and it’s it’s interesting because yeah as an agency, too, we’ve we’ve had several situations where, and we were talking about this earlier, you were on both sides, the franchisee-franchise, or I think that’s really, in a way, your superpower. I think your empathy and the understanding really is ah is ah is it a massive benefit ah in your in your world. and ah But many times, we’ve been asked to for lack of a word act like the whatever you call it bulletproof vest liaison mediator between the the franchisees and the franchisor and I always felt like that was like uh I mean we’re happy to do it as an agency but I always felt like that that that just it signals that there’s a really a communication gap you know what I mean that to you really should you know yeah 29:29.90Anand GalaOh, I think you’re right. I think you’re right. I encourage people have the hard conversations. I’m not saying that you’re gonna be comfortable doing it. They they are uncomfortable conversations, but it that’s just life. 29:43.08Anand GalaThat’s just life. 29:44.79vigorbrandingYeah, no doubt. All right. Well, let’s have some fun with us now. How, I mean, you have a lot of restaurants. 29:47.59Anand GalaYeah. 29:49.23vigorbrandingI mean, obviously you can, you have your choice every day. I’m sure you do, but you, you eat in your restaurants that you invest in, correct? 29:55.66Anand GalaOh, every week, every single week, yep. 29:56.65vigorbrandingOkay. That’s what I wanted to ask you. How often and like, what, you know, is it a coffee thing? Then I’ll get a pizza one day and maybe a burger the next. 30:03.48Anand GalaYeah, I’ll mix it up, exactly. 30:04.69vigorbrandingNice. Nice. Nice. All right. So now I want to get your opinions on some of the menu items in your restaurants and your current portfolio. 30:10.38Anand GalaOkay. 30:11.59vigorbrandingOkay. So what’s the best burger on the menu at Mujah? What’s your go-to? 30:16.68Anand GalaYou know, so so Best Burger, that’s such a personal question, right? Everybody’s got their own approach. Mine, I’m i’m a real fan of what made them successful, right? What is their core product? And for us, our core classic is the Muyad Double Cheeseburger. 30:37.47vigorbrandingNice. 30:37.60Anand GalaMan, it is just such a amazing, delicious burger the way that it should be made. It’s it’s fantastic. If I’m feeling indulgent, i’ll I’ll pop some jalapenos on there, but oh, it’s my go-to. 30:48.61vigorbrandingUh, I’m getting hungry. I didn’t eat lunch today. So I’m, you know, I’m with East coast. So I’m, I’m, I’m ready. 30:54.19Anand GalaYeah. 30:54.60vigorbrandingThat’s, that’s fantastic. All right. CCs. If you’re building your own pizza, what are we getting? 30:59.66Anand GalaSo again, I’m a classic kind of guy. It’s gonna be probably a pepperoni, ah but I’ll tell you what, if you haven’t had it, 31:01.97vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 31:07.71Anand GalaCece’s is known for a mac and cheese pizza. 31:12.16vigorbrandingOh, wow. 31:12.46Anand GalaNow, it’s not something you’re gonna eat every day, but it is definitely something you have got to try. It is addictive. 31:19.32vigorbrandingI’ll take your river. I’m Italian. So I’m, you know, Mac and cheese. We never put it on pizza. I don’t know. So, but that’s definitely and both good foods. 31:22.99Anand GalaI know, I know. It sounds wacky, but you just gotta give it a shot one day. 31:28.54vigorbrandingYou know, put it together. You know, it’s like peanut butter and jelly probably. So maybe, maybe it works. 31:31.22Anand GalaYeah. 31:32.65vigorbrandingah Famous Dave’s barbecue. You ribs, chicken or catfish? 31:36.50Anand GalaBoy, I’m gonna throw you for a loop here. um Although I love all three of those, but you’ve gotta try the brisket. 31:44.14vigorbrandingAh, okay. 31:44.11Anand GalaOh my goodness, it is fantastic. 31:45.58vigorbrandinglove I do love brisket. 31:47.29Anand GalaNow, if i’m if I’m not having the brisket, it’s the St. Louis style ribs. Hands down, the juiciest, meatiest ribs I’ve ever had in my life. They are, oh, they’re addictive. 31:59.10vigorbrandingYou’re you’re not not just the owner, you’re you’re you’re obviously a connoisseur and a fan, so and comes that comes through. That’s not marketing, I can tell. All right, Dumb Brothers Coffee. how what What are we ordering there? like what What’s your go-to there? 32:10.93Anand GalaSo if you don’t know much about Dunn Brothers, we roast our coffee fresh in the locations. 32:15.52vigorbrandingUh-huh. 32:17.25Anand GalaThat is really unique. um And so the coffee you’re having, or coffee-based drink you’re having, the coffee that goes into that has been roasted within the last few days. 32:27.48vigorbrandingBe a test. 32:27.62Anand GalaThat, if you haven’t tried fresh roasted coffee, is remarkable. You can truly, truly taste the difference. 32:35.40vigorbrandingUh-huh. 32:36.61Anand GalaSo for me, it’s just what is the um the the micro lot or special roast that they have during that time frame? And it’s that with maybe just a little bit of milk or just a splash of cream, but just trying to keep it simple so you really get all the real flavors and notes of that coffee coming through. 32:57.21Anand GalaSo I’m a simple guy when it comes to coffee. 32:57.36vigorbrandingAbsolutely. Yeah. Hey, i mine’s just black with a few ice cubes in it. You know, I call it the grandma Agnes move. 33:02.69Anand GalaYeah. 33:03.95vigorbrandingMy grandmother used to always put ice cubes in her coffee. 33:05.46Anand GalaYeah. 33:06.56vigorbrandingAnd so I’ve been drinking coffee all my life, but I love just black ice, black coffee with a little ice cubes in it. And I said, I don’t do the triple latte half oat milk. 33:12.68Anand Galaso So you’re saying that grandma invented, grandma invented iced coffee. 33:15.46vigorbrandingyeah There you go. 33:17.38Anand GalaThat’s what you’re telling me. 33:18.12vigorbrandingyeah It’s not even ice, just a few ice cubes just so I don’t burn my mouth. And it’s probably because I like to drink coffee and I don’t, you know, so it’s not, not loaded with ice, just, you know, a few ice cubes just to cool it off. 33:21.75Anand GalaAh, okay. 33:26.57vigorbrandingRight? So very, very sensitive lips. 33:27.05Anand GalaAll right. 33:29.61vigorbrandingOkay. Rusty taco, pork, beef, shrimp, chicken. 33:31.44Anand GalaYes, sir. 33:34.24Anand Galayou gotta to try the Rusty Taco. It’s the original named for our founder, the namesake. 33:36.79vigorbrandingOkay. home 33:40.53Anand GalaIt’s it’s ah it’s pork with some chunks of pineapple. ah It’s just, I mean, it’s a classic taco, ah which which is the foundation of what Rusty built the brand upon. 33:53.80Anand GalaNow we’ve got a bunch of others and and they’re very sort of Tex-Mex, Taqueria style tacos that are really delicious. So there’s that one. And then I would say, ah Boy, that’s that’s the that’s my go-to every single time, yeah. 34:08.65vigorbrandingPerfect. That’s perfect. So, okay. 34:11.72Anand GalaOh, by the way, if yeah if you haven’t tried, um the queso at Rusty Taco is off the charts. People don’t know that we have it, but we’ve got nachos and you can do that with the queso and you can do brisket or pulled pork or you know any kind of topping you want on there, just off the charts, fantastic. 34:27.40vigorbrandingPerfect. 34:30.84vigorbrandingWell, you’re killing me. Like I said, I haven’t eaten lunch yet. It’s going to one o’clock. So this is this is this is all good. I got to figure out what i’m gonna we’re going to have now. It’s all going through my head. So, okay. What’s what’s up? What’s next for, for, for gala partners? I mean, is there anything else on the horizon? I mean, obviously if you can’t talk about, it you can’t talk about, but anything that you’re, any categories you’re excited about, anything you’re kind of looking at, it anything you can talk about there. 34:52.63Anand GalaYou know, honestly, we’re excited about what we have in the portfolio. we We have so much runway with every one of these businesses that we have that it’s really got to be something special to get our attention. 34:55.64vigorbrandingAbsolutely. 34:58.52vigorbrandingabsolutely 35:02.75Anand GalaAnd right now we just haven’t seen anything that’s that special. So we just double down on what we have and we’re just going deep, going long. 35:09.62vigorbrandingMm hmm. 35:10.05Anand Galayou know With Dunn Brothers, we just expanded into K-Cups and into CPG, so we’re we’re pushing some of our coffee through some grocery stores. 35:10.52vigorbrandingWait. 35:14.74vigorbrandingWow. 35:19.48Anand Galaum We’re going to be redoing, redesigning, and relaunching our direct-to-consumer website and e-commerce pretty soon. We’ve got several new stores and new prototypes in the hopper. 35:30.40Anand GalaThe same is true with Rusty. We’re opening, I think, it’s eight or nine locations this year. um And Muya, we just opened two of our ah very first drive-through locations, both company owned. We want to get the the ball rolling on drive-throughs. And so we’re excited to prove that model out. And so far, the customers love it. 35:48.57vigorbrandingYeah, well, you brought up a couple really, I think, important points. You did load up on a lot of these brands here very recently. And yeah you happened, I mean, no pun intended, but it seems like you covered every food group, like everything that’s important as far as coffee, pizza, burgers, taco, I mean, you know, boy, it’s, ah yeah, yeah, literally, yeah, you nailed it, you nailed it. 35:58.28Anand GalaYeah. Our plate is full. 36:05.78vigorbrandingSo, I mean, it it does make a lot of sense to really kind of drive all that. And and the other thing you brought, which i I personally see a lot is, You know, with our company, you know, we we have about five different agencies in our in our portfolio. and And one being Quench is CPG food and beverage, which is very different than restaurants. They just happen to sell foods. We have another company called Vigor that just does restaurant expertise. But it’s amazing how many are doing the, we have this product, it’s people find it in the restaurant, it’s great marketing, they have it, they love it, like your coffee. 36:35.42vigorbrandingAnd all of a sudden, it’s slotted over CPG. 36:35.64Anand GalaMm hmm. 36:37.06vigorbrandingAnd it’s like people, hey, I i love that coffee. It’s fresh. it’s ah And I walk into the store, and I can buy it. And it’s ah such a smart move. ah but You see it both ways. I’ve seen it from the CPG side going into restaurants, and the restaurant side going into CPG. 36:48.29Anand GalaYeah. 36:49.56vigorbrandingSo I think that’s ah it’s a really, really smart move. 36:49.67Anand GalaYeah, absolutely. 36:52.78vigorbrandingNow, I have one last question. And you know it’s going to be hard for you, probably the hardest thing you have to answer all day, because you can’t you can’t say one of your restaurants. 36:54.72Anand GalaYes, sir. 37:00.72vigorbrandingIf you had one last final meal, what would you eat, where, and 37:00.96Anand GalaAll right. 37:05.55vigorbrandingWith who? 37:08.26Anand GalaBoy, that is a great question. ah First of all, with whom it’d be my family. Hands down, there’s nobody else who I wanna spend time with as often as possible than with my parents and my wife and my kids and my brother and his family. 37:26.81Anand GalaMy family means everything to me. What would the meal be? It’s gotta be something that everybody loves. And so when I think about what does everybody love, it’s probably pizza. 37:36.68vigorbrandingThere 37:38.26Anand Galaeverybody loves pizza. 37:39.72vigorbrandingyou go. 37:40.24Anand GalaAnd you can customize it every which way you want. Where would I go? My goodness. Or what would I have it? There’s a there’s a restaurant in Los Angeles, which ah I truly, truly enjoy. 37:56.39Anand GalaI can’t ever think that I had a bad meal there. And it’s an Italian restaurant. They happen to have amazing pizza. It’s called Osteria Mozza. 38:05.65vigorbrandingNice. 38:05.67Anand GalaAnd they have a a sister brand called Pizzeria Mozza. And the it’s just some of the best food I’ve ever had in my life. It’s the service. It’s the quality. It’s the flavors. 38:17.73Anand GalaIt’s everything all combined. 38:20.04vigorbrandingFantastic. 38:20.05Anand GalaAnd I don’t even remember what I spent. I’m sure it was too much. But, oh man, it’s so memorable. 38:25.90vigorbrandingWell, hey, back to your the concepts on your burger, right? I mean, if it’s a if it if the food hits the mark, you you you really don’t care what you spend. I mean, you know you know it’s it don’t be for those, but quality and and you know it’s it’s so, so important. And you were very smart and you’re a smart guy, you covered it. So if your if your family or anybody in your family watches this podcast, you know you answered the right, you had the right answer. with Only with my family. So that’s fantastic. 38:50.99vigorbrandingand you’re You’re amazing. I love watching what you’ve been doing. it’s It’s a pleasure to talk to you and it’s great knowing you and I look forward to the next time I see you. it Thanks a lot. 39:00.65Anand GalaAbsolutely. Look forward to it. I’ll see you soon. All right. Take care. bye 

Andy is president of Gellert Global Group. The company imports more than 5,500 unique food items from more than 60 countries and is one of the largest food importers in the world. Gellert Global Group is home to 12 companies, led by Atalanta, the largest privately-held food importer in the U.S.Gellert Global is a third-generation family-run business. The Gellert Global Group comprises many of the leading North American food-importing companies and has been importing food products for over 100 years. The combined revenues of the Group exceed $1.7 billion.The Gellert Global family includes Andy’s sister, brother and cousin. Andy’s father and uncle are also part of the company. Andy’s father, George, was recently inducted into the New Jersey business hall of fame. Gellert Global’s goal is to be a part of every food and beverage experience. Andy and his team use a variety of factors to determine which products and brands to partner with, including trends and the needs of customers. QUOTES “Some of these family businesses and you hear about fighting and people not getting along. I think we’re successful because we keep growing and there’s enough things for everyone to do and for everyone to bring value.” (Andy) “You want (joining the family business) to happen organically. It’s a fun business. There’s opportunities for (family) to join if they want. There’s no obligation to come in. We’d like them to come in, but we don’t want to make a rule that they have to come in.” (Andy) “Network is important to my father. I learned that from him early on. Being a part of YPO (Young President’s Organization), I love leveraging my network. I like investing in early-stage CPG’s and helping and leading them to other opportunities.” (Andy) “We don’t want to lose direction. We’re very big and we’re happy where we are but we’re not in a rush to get to two billion. We’re going to get there smart. If it means pairing down and doing SKU rationalization to be more profitable, all the better.” (Andy) “It’s really all about efficiency. As you get bigger you can be more efficient, but you have to be diligent.” (Andy) “We’re an importer of products so our products are expensive already. We’re always looking for ways to (save). You always have to turn over rocks to look for more opportunities.” (Andy) “I love eating. I love food experiences. I love being surprised. I like going to a chef and saying ‘Just surprise me. Just give me what you do best.’” (Andy)  TRANSCRIPT 00:00.45Andy GellertBye. 00:01.87vigorbrandingHey there, welcome to Fork Tales. I’m ah Michael Pavone, and I’m happy to really get a chance to talk to a good friend of mine. ah Today we have Andy Gellert here. He’s a good friend I’ve known for and respected for a long, long time. Andy’s the president of Gellert Global Group, one of the largest food importers in the world. ah They import more than 2,500 product lines from more than 60 countries. Andy, thank you so much for being here. 00:27.05Andy GellertMike, always a pleasure, always great seeing you, and nice seeing your smiling face, and I love hanging out with you. We’re always having a lot of fun together. 00:34.39vigorbrandingYeah, absolutely. You know, if they if they have music for this in the beginning, you know, I was going to, I was going to change up our, our forktails music and have a little. 00:41.11Andy GellertListen, I don’t like to brag about my my my my my my my my my beautiful voice. where You saw me on stage with Welcome Pepper a long time ago. I hung that up a long time ago. 00:52.98Andy GellertI got straight into the food business, Mike. I can’t cant just think my life away, you know? 00:54.81vigorbrandingYeah. The little salt and pepper in the beginning of this thing i gets us off on everything and everything. The thing is, Andy, I have known you for a long time, but I love doing these interviews because I always learn more. so it’s like I might have seen you over the years at these shows and get to hang out and you know have a drink together, but you know when you’re digging a little deeper about the family business and about the food industry and and all of that, it’s just I’m always blown away. and your Your company and your family, which is the company, is absolutely amazing. 01:21.57vigorbrandingSo tell us a little bit about Gellert Global Group and know what they do. 01:24.57Andy Gellertbut i mean like Next year we’ll celebrate our 80th birthday and we’re very excited. and As I said, you know I’m third generation and I live i live food. It’s a passion of mine. I love all aspects of the food industry. and you know like My grandfather started this in 1945. 01:46.38Andy Gellertimporting meats from Eastern Europe and seafood. We’ve grown and got other lines of businesses in. We’re selling food service, retail, manufacturing, cruise line. 01:57.56Andy GellertWe’re now involved in, you know thanks to YPO, I’m i’m involved in the franchise business. By the end of the year, we’ll have 55 guys. Thanks to our good friend Dan Rowe. 02:05.09vigorbrandingWow. Yeah. 02:07.17Andy GellertWe’re introducing their first one. And you know we invest in food businesses and it’s just, ah We’re all about food. I tell everyone I hit my belly, it’s this is R and&D. 02:17.29Andy GellertThis is R and&D. I mean, 02:20.68vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. Now, you know, I know family owned, super important. I know you treat everyone like family because I’ve seen you around ah customers, employees, the whole thing, but your dad, he is an older gentleman, but still very much involved in the business. Is that correct? 02:35.09Andy Gellert86. I went to his house to play tennis at 6 o’clock in the morning today. We play with people from our company. He loves it like he’s, my mom goes away for the summer. 02:45.63Andy GellertHe’s having, ah lot this summer is incredible. He’s 86. Every, twice a week, he has people from the company come over and have dinner and just different groups of people. 02:52.74vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. 02:53.86Andy GellertAnd and he loves what he does. It’s it’s it’s really it’s really an honor to to to work with him and and watch him. he loves He loves his suppliers. 03:04.49Andy GellertWe love our bankers. We love our employees. It’s all about, you know, yeah he’s all, he’s all about people. And it’s really great. 03:11.81vigorbrandingYeah. 03:12.97Andy GellertI said this summer at the fancy food show, he was honored with a lifetime achievement award. And it’s such a good honor to see him up there and enjoying all the success of the role we’ve done together. 03:22.47vigorbrandingWell, it’s so well deserved. He deserved that honor. The company’s amazing. But you should give him a break. I mean, I think you you put sneakers on him. 03:28.24Andy GellertHe loves, 03:28.57vigorbrandingi had He had sneakers on in the booth to run around. I mean, you know. 03:32.00Andy Gellertyou know, listen, like I said, he works out before we play tennis in the morning and He’s all about the next activity and what we’re doing next. So, you know. 03:39.84vigorbrandingThat’s it’s fantastic. how many So how many members of the family are currently working in the company? 03:45.07Andy GellertSo today we have my sister, my brother, and my cousin in my generation. And my cousin who, my other cousin who runs the Five Guide business. And then I have my father and my uncle. 03:56.25Andy GellertSo there’s, you know, three, six of us, you know. 03:58.55vigorbrandingthat’s great 03:59.47Andy GellertAnd we’re getting ready for the third generation. 03:59.41vigorbrandingand look 04:01.81Andy GellertHopefully, you know, there are nine kids in the next generation. Hopefully one of them or two of them will come in and we’re we’re excited. It’s all about, you know, we love what we do and there’s a lot to do. 04:12.31Andy GellertAnd, you know, some of these family businesses, you know, the family, you hear about them and they’re fighting and they’re not getting a along. 04:18.50vigorbrandingThat’s 04:19.38Andy GellertI think we’re being successful because we keep growing and there’s enough things that everyone can do and everyone brings value that no one’s stepping each other’s toes. 04:25.06vigorbrandinggreat. 04:27.57Andy GellertWe’re all different, we but we appreciate each other’s opinion and listening to each other. We argue, but, you know, we all, we we get her off our chest and we move forward. You know? 04:36.10vigorbrandingWould you go out and play tennis, right, and solve it over the own tennis court? 04:37.88Andy GellertExactly. We stopped it on the court. We stopped it on the court. 04:40.98vigorbrandingSo you the kids, are are they are they interested? are they old not I don’t know how old they are. Are they old enough to be getting close? 04:47.10Andy GellertSo I think um my daughter my daughter is a social worker therapist. I don’t think she’s going to come in, you know. But my, you know, my other two ah potentially will come in. 04:57.29Andy Gellertone One probably more likely than the other. 04:57.44vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 04:59.68Andy GellertOther is in the real estate industry. And then my sister’s kids potentially were there and my brother’s kids were a little bit younger. So I definitely think at least three or four will come in for the next generation. But in the meantime, we keep growing and getting bigger and and looking at opportunities and we have fun. Why why are we doing it? 05:17.12vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Well, so in in your situation, I mean, we’re we’re of a generation, you and I, I’ll say that, like, did you, did you have a choice or did you always know that this is what I’m going to do or I want to do it? Or did you, did dad put a little pressure on you and say, Hey, look, you know, you got to do your thing. 05:32.22Andy GellertI did everything wrong in the family business. youre They all that go out and get the outside experience. And I came right in. 05:38.08vigorbrandingyeahh Yeah. 05:38.43Andy GellertAnd it was difficult. I’m not going to say it was a piece of cake. And my brother was a lot. 05:41.30vigorbrandingYeah. 05:44.06Andy Gellertyou know He went to business school. He went to law school. He worked in private banking. And then he came in. So it it made a lot of sense. And my sister, the same thing. yeah I did everything wrong but it’s good to know, it’s good to do it because then you know you’re not going to repeat it. 05:57.78Andy GellertSo you know my son who who definitely looks forward to maybe joining one day says he want he wants to spend three or four years you know the outside and coming in. 05:58.16vigorbrandingYeah. 06:05.42vigorbrandingyeah 06:08.26Andy GellertHe says he doesn’t like his boss I’m like that’s good get used to it. you Get used to it better than me you know. 06:12.52vigorbrandingGet used to it, right? 06:17.21vigorbrandingWell, you know, that’s I had the same rule with my girls. I mean, I don’t know that they’ll ever want to come into it. Why would anyone would go to an advertising agency or come into a marketing firm? But if they would, I said they had to work somewhere for two years and get one promotion. 06:28.93vigorbrandingAnd thankfully, they’ve both been doing that. 06:29.31Andy GellertYeah. 06:31.08vigorbrandingIn fact, they’ve been doing it for a while now, so maybe they’re not interested. So ah they may have dodged the bullet or maybe I have. But I just think our generation was one of those things where, you know, yeah, go do what you want to do, but you’re coming into the company kind of thing, you know. 06:43.02vigorbrandingI started my own business, I didn’t go to my dad’s company but I mean it was one of those things where I just think a lot of folks, it was just I guess different. ah Now I think with, I’ll say with my daughters and probably your kids like go out and do your thing and if you’re interested talk to me, don’t you know, don’t don’t not talk to me about it but you know, no pressure, that kind of thing. 07:00.05vigorbrandingYou know, it’s just a little different. 07:01.20Andy GellertYeah you want it to happen organically and you know listen he he comes around a lot of the meals and the family all gets together and a lot of time is talking about work so he’s interested and you know he spends weekends he came to the fancy food show they all came I can see what’s going on and it’s it’s a fun business so I think there’s opportunities for them in the future if they want but there’s no pressure we’re growing we we have a lot of we’ve done a great job of hiring a lot of outside ah you know ah 07:03.16vigorbrandingYeah. 07:19.45vigorbrandingYeah. 07:30.22Andy Gellertah you know professionals to help us run the business and they don’t have to come. <unk>re We’re doing well and you know they’re all going to enjoy the from the fruitfuls of the business as as it as it gets bigger but there’s no obligation for them to come in. We like them to come in but we don’t want to make a rule if they have to come in. 07:48.07vigorbrandingYeah, but on that note, and we’ll jump in more about the business, but on the family side, you mentioned earlier that we’re both in YPO. And we both know that a lot of YPO businesses are family owned businesses. And there’s there are challenges, right, with being family owned and led. I mean, you know, what, you know, can you talk a little bit about that? 08:05.93Andy GellertListen, it’s hard, but thank God for YPO. To me, it’s one of the best opportunities of my life. I really enjoyed all the people like yourself and getting involved in the Food Network and my New Jersey Forum. 08:23.49Andy GellertThese guys are my board of directors and my own personal board of directors. 08:26.70vigorbrandingyou 08:28.15Andy GellertThey really helped me grow. where you know where I was i was being stubborn, they told me to relax, where I was not being aggressive enough, they pushed me. And it’s just been a great environment for me to to prosper as a leader because of YPL. 08:43.66vigorbrandingThat’s great. When I know your food and beverage form or that group and boy, you know, I can’t believe you learned anything from them. So ah you guys have a group of, you guys have ah ah a group of, uh, of, uh, cherished individuals, yeah characters. 08:49.65Andy GellertThank you. 08:56.99Andy GellertWe’ve got a great group and we’ve been together for over, you know, some of us back almost 16, 18 years and it’s great. 08:58.20vigorbrandingYes, you do. 09:03.87Andy GellertI love seeing the guys and we don we try not to miss meetings and and we’re supportive of each other. 09:06.99vigorbrandingYeah, it’s cool. Yeah, I’ve had a couple of them one here, so it’s ah it’s been great. They’re they’re they’re like the characters, that’s for sure. So yeah and you mentioned your father got an award at Fancy Food. I was there at Fancy Food this year, and what it’s a great honor. He’s also a member of the New Jersey Business Hall of Fame. 09:24.61Andy GellertYeah, please listen, though we it’s not easy. I think we’re the 11th largest privately held business in New Jersey. We’re very proud of that. and we you know it’s We work hard and he deserves to be honored for what what what he’s accomplished. 09:39.11vigorbrandingYeah. i mean so As I was saying earlier, you know I get to meet folks and we get to see you know different folks at different shows. and i had i i mean I knew you ran a great, important company. I had no idea the size and scale. so you know on Your vision is to be a part of every food experience. and you know Well, I will say that sounds like a really you know audacious goal, right? But with your company, you kind of are. i mean you have you have you have You have a franchise, you have you import your frozen food, you have CPG, you have a private, I mean, it’s it’s incredible. 10:13.44vigorbrandingCan you talk a little bit about the breadth and the different companies within your organization? 10:15.87Andy GellertI mean, it’s exciting and I think we’ve grown over the years through acquisitions. I think the last 18 months we made three acquisitions. We’re probably closing on one the next month and have two on the table that we’re looking at. So growth is, you know, we’re always looking at mergers and acquisitions. And we like to say, listen, private equity, if you’re a family business, you want to stay apart, you know, how enjoy the ride, take some money off the table and join our family instead of private equity where they 10:44.81vigorbrandingYeah. 10:45.10Andy Gellertchange your business up and listen if you want to cash out you can always cash out but if you want to enjoy the ride a little bit longer and take some money off the table we’ve been very successful about people wanting to join a family business and ours is that we’re like a large very large family business so we get to a lot of opportunities to look at business deals. 11:05.69vigorbrandingYeah, and you know, ah your your ah passion for the business and your your love of people, it sort of precedes you. Like I’ve always seen that about you, your energy and i it’s not, it’s not, it’s not artificial. 11:18.40vigorbrandingYou do that. I’ve seen it. I’ve seen you at the booth when I’m standing walking the shows and stuff. And it’s, ah it’s really kind of ah really cool. And I’m sure that’s a compliment to your father and and I’m sure your whole family’s like that. But you do treat everybody like family. 11:29.62vigorbrandingAnd I think that’s ah admirable. 11:30.12Andy Gellertbut You know, network is always um is important to my father. I learned that from him early on. And being part of YPO, I love leveraging my network and not for myself, but helping people. 11:39.05vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. 11:41.20Andy GellertI like investing in early stage CPGs and helping these young people and watching their passion and, you know, leading them to other opportunities. I love putting two people together and let let them prosper. 11:53.58Andy GellertIt’s it’s really a ah pleasure of mine, you know, watching that happen. 11:58.17vigorbrandingYeah, well, and that’s, that leads to success, right? 12:00.84Andy GellertIt’s really pure joy. 12:00.82vigorbrandingYou know, you help people out. 12:01.68Andy Gellertat You’re 100%. 12:01.74vigorbrandingYeah, absolutely. So, and I will say, ah you know, I’ve been informed with you and you were a treasure and valuables all get out. And the amount of people you know, and and the connections you have are second to none. 12:14.02Andy GellertWell, 12:14.00vigorbrandingAnd you know, 12:14.46Andy Gellertwe do have a good friend in LA who like to compare. 12:16.32vigorbrandingokay 12:17.18Andy GellertMy good friend, our good friend Clara, who probably knows one more than I do. 12:20.44vigorbrandingyeah hey 12:22.30Andy Gellertjob 12:23.31vigorbrandingheard I would always keep score when we’d be talking, like who knew who or who knew the other person better or whatever else, but I will say, yeah I’m excited for you to be on here because I know my podcast now will be, I’ll rival the the football games, you know the upcoming football games for for for viewership because because of you. 12:34.55Andy GellertYeah. 12:38.34vigorbrandingSo I just, I appreciate that. So, but but back when companies, though you have frozen, you have CPG. can you Can you talk a little bit about the different types of of ah products? 12:46.45Andy GellertYeah, so we’re in the frozen fruits, frozen vegetables. You know, we just actually, a few years ago, we invested in a company called Cafe Spice. I made him join YPO and they make ethnic meals. um I just, you know, we did ah the Bloomberg of Food, the Food Institute, 13:04.37Andy GellertWe made a minority investment in there. 13:04.43vigorbrandingYep. 13:06.90Andy Gellertwere you know We do a lot of different retail, private label, manufacturing. We’re just trying to leverage all the everything on a plate. look at you know we’re We’re looking at an olive business, a rice business. There’s so many opportunities out there. We just want to add on to our great team here. We’ve got great people. 13:27.64Andy Gellertah We have great sales people, great buyers, and you know, finance. And we just, we can do some more. So we’re looking for more opportunities. 13:33.69vigorbrandingMm hmm. That’s great. Do you need an ad agency? I’m just kidding. 13:37.95Andy GellertWe’ve said, a lot of us not our own brand. We do have some brands that we, that are ours. 13:43.18vigorbrandingYeah. 13:43.84Andy GellertAnd we bought, we bought two brands from, from UNFI, Mountain Vicos that was owned by UNFI and Sonoma Cheese. 13:48.53vigorbrandingMm hmm. 13:52.16Andy GellertSo we do, we do work on our brand. So we, you know, we and um we have a marketing department. 13:54.60vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. 13:56.46Andy GellertWe got a, get you more engaged, Micah. 13:58.46vigorbrandingThere you go. 13:58.78Andy GellertI’ll get to that. 13:59.35vigorbrandingHey, I’m always here for that. That’s awesome. 14:01.26Andy GellertFor even your Philly cheesesteak, we’ll have a meeting, you know, that’s all I need. 14:03.59vigorbrandingYou got it. Hey, that’s done. No no no problem there. So when you’re when you’re building and you’re always looking for these new new products or companies, ah yeah what when you want to import them, what what factors are you looking at? 14:15.50vigorbrandinglike I mean, obviously you you go to need a lot of things, there but you’re in so many different places. What what is it that you’re you’re kind of like, what’s on your checklist at the top of the checklist? 14:23.65Andy GellertSo we want to look at something that makes sense. so if you know We love the the old math, one plus one equals four. So we want to find efficiencies. Maybe they’re doing the same thing we are, but they have a big they have a big finance team that we don’t really need going forward. 14:38.14Andy GellertOr maybe they’re in one segment of the business where we’re not in. 14:42.04vigorbrandingUh-huh. 14:42.16Andy GellertSo we try to really identify where we can do the math where one plus one equals four and five. 14:47.91vigorbrandingRight. 14:48.70Andy Gellertyou know we don’t want to doesn’t that A copycat doesn’t really help sometimes, but if they have a you know a big ah big staff on the some redundancy there, then it could make sense. 14:54.08vigorbrandingUh-huh. 14:58.10Andy GellertOtherwise, it could be a whole new field that we can add to our already you know deep bench of of products that we do. So we don’t have a playlist of what we’re looking for. We just look at different opportunities and see if they make sense. 15:11.27Andy Gellerti mean like Just like building a network, we love looking at decks and looking at opportunities or 15:16.32vigorbrandingMm hmm. 15:16.75Andy GellertWhy are companies for sale? Why aren’t they aren’t? And a lot of times, i likeck listen, this is going to go to private equity. We’re not going to need a bit because we know we’ll be blown out of the water. 15:25.59vigorbrandingright Yeah. Yeah. that makes That makes a lot of sense. So, I mean, obviously, and you know, I kind of had this philosophy as well in the business. It’s like, you’re opportunistic. You know, you’re not saying I’m looking for this exact thing. 15:36.91vigorbrandingIt has to be this big, that, you know, that that category doing that thing. It’s sort of like, Oh, here’s an opportunity. Hmm. This fits or no, it doesn’t fit. Or, Hey, this can enhance that. 15:43.96Andy GellertYeah. 15:44.95vigorbrandingAnd if we do this, maybe we can go here. And so I’ve always looked at that. It’s kind of fun to do it that way. I kind of always. 15:50.32Andy GellertIt’s not a good idea. You’re looking under the rug and see what’s there and putting that puzzle together because like I said, a big company that’s competitive in mind, it’s going to go for a lot more for private equity. 15:51.60vigorbrandingYeah. 15:54.65vigorbrandingYeah. 16:03.40Andy GellertI don’t even want to play in there. I don’t have private equity money where I could afford to strike out. 16:05.38vigorbrandingRight. 16:10.74Andy GellertI want to make sure these are successful acquisitions and they fit in them all. 16:15.96vigorbrandingYeah, and you make a really good point because we’ve seen, you know, I’ll say, and um I know you’ve seen for sure, but in my business with CPG and in the restaurant side, private equity will come in and they, I’m not gonna say they don’t care if they fail, but they they know it’s a numbers game. 16:31.27vigorbrandingThey know that all aren’t gonna pan out. So they make these investments and then they they do their, they they they they apply their playbook and then, you know, if it’s like baseball. if they They hit three out of, ah if they hit three out of 10, they feel like they’ve done something and and you probably have financially, but 16:40.88Andy Gellertyeah 16:44.73vigorbrandingThe other seven are just left to the wayside. 16:46.68Andy GellertExactly. And and they’ve, you know, they can afford to do that. We really don’t want to do that. 16:49.73vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. 16:51.36Andy GellertAnd we don’t want to, we don’t want to lose direction. 16:51.34vigorbrandingNo. 16:53.42Andy GellertI mean, listen, and we like, you know, we’re very big and we’re happy wherever you are, but we’re not in a goal to rush to get to 2 billion. 17:00.89vigorbrandingRight. 17:01.14Andy GellertWouldn’t get there smart. And if it means paring down and skew rationalization to be more profitable, all the better. 17:06.88vigorbrandingMm hmm. Do you find yourself doing that a lot? Do you do you have to go in there and and do skew rationalization or? 17:12.64Andy Gellertall the time, all the time, we really, you know, skew rash, customer rationalization, and we’ll bundle a bunch of customers and give them to a bigger customer just to make sure our warehouse is more efficient. 17:13.21vigorbrandingYeah. 17:16.68vigorbrandingYeah. 17:21.11vigorbrandingYeah. 17:23.25Andy GellertIt’s really all about efficiency. I mean, as you get bigger, you could be more efficient. 17:24.87vigorbrandingYeah. 17:27.21Andy GellertAnd, but you have to be diligent and skew rationalization, customer rationalization, people rationalization, you know, rationalization as well. 17:32.84vigorbrandingYep. 17:35.97Andy GellertYou know, it’s important. 17:37.23vigorbrandingYeah. And that’s that’s such ah’ such an interesting point because I think, you know, and I’ll say i’ll say in my own experience, you know, i in our holding company, we have several different marketing companies and I’m always afraid to let customers go. 17:48.21vigorbrandingLike, oh, though no, that we can do it for them. Sometimes it’s not good business, right? And sometimes you have to make those tough decisions and, you know, it’s it’s hard to let employees go, but it’s it’s hard for you to let, or I’ll say for me, to let a piece of business go, a paying customer. 17:52.67Andy GellertYeah. 18:00.83Andy GellertYeah, ah it’s, you know, you don’t like the same thing. But, but you got to look at it like, you know, you still have another 300 other employees out there that you want to do for the better the of the group. 18:07.78vigorbrandingRight. 18:10.14vigorbrandingRight. 18:10.45Andy GellertSo it makes sense to let someone go or let a customer go in order to be more efficient for everyone else. 18:10.42vigorbrandingThat’s right. 18:17.54Andy GellertSo it’s hard. 18:17.83vigorbrandingyeah 18:19.55Andy GellertAnd initially, it’s hard. But over time, you realize It’s a better decision and to be you know to be more efficient and just try. 18:27.95vigorbrandingAbsolutely. So I mean, one of the things that, you you know, we have the two agencies, we have quench, we have, ah which is CPG food and beverage, we have a vart of Vigor, which is ah ah restaurant marketing. and you you You cover them all because you’re in franchise with five guys, you’re in, you know, in the CPG world. um You know, it’s it’s sort of like, it’s hard to keep track of everything. How do you manage it all? I mean, I know you have different folks, but you’re sitting up there, are you just pulling up a different P and&L for each of these business units every two days? or 18:56.16Andy GellertI mean, we’re on ah basically a lot of these Zoom calls and just listening in and we just had one a few minutes ago, you know, we do a lot of nut and dry fruit business and we’re working on getting bigger in the bakery in the in the supermarket. 19:09.09Andy GellertSo how could we be, you know, and and we sat down today and we talked about all of our items and they all fit in the bakery. bill We’re selling very little of the bakery. So it’s an untapped market and it gets everyone excited. 19:21.02Andy GellertAnd we sit down and f throw things at the wall and see what sticks. 19:24.19vigorbrandingThat’s great. 19:24.58Andy GellertAnd we’re kind of fun. like we just said hey You know, we do this item, this will be good for, and I just, I love sitting in these meetings and just, you know, throwing out ideas. 19:32.21vigorbrandingThat’s great. That’s great. Very cool. Well, I know at Quench, you know, the CPG side, we would do to learn, to understand the industry. You know, we started the agency in food and beverage. 19:43.65vigorbrandingIt’s like, you can’t just say you do advertising and marketing food and beverage. You have to have an expertise. We’re going to hire people from the CPG world. But then what we did was we created a food and beverage trench to learn what was going on. 19:54.01vigorbrandingRight. And the first year we’ve done them for 15 years. You know, you’ve probably seen me speak on them at different events. 20:00.02Andy GellertYeah, are you do a great job. I love hearing your updates on the YPO conferences and you really got a pulse of what’s going on in the industry. 20:07.49vigorbrandingYeah. would So we we would do that. just We did it actually just for our own edification, just to learn. And then when we did it, we said, well, let’s let’s just give these away. So we do them every year. We give them away, fast companies written about them and all that. Do you use trends ah for your business to for like that next big thing? 20:21.92vigorbrandingOr is it more of truly just looking at the pieces and moving things around on the board? 20:26.18Andy GellertWe look at trends, we look at pieces, you know, we lot of our a lot of our suppli customers say, we like this item, can you go out and find it for us? And we got people or, you know, and in some cases we do a lot of business, some of our our customers say, here’s an item, you know here’s the supplier, you know, you’re you’re a great importer, we want you to import it for us. So it just, because we’re a trusted supplier, we’re good at logistics, they actually given us business to to handle. 20:53.89Andy GellertAnd it’s it’s exciting. And then we take that business and look at other opportunities as well. 20:59.70vigorbrandingHow is there anything are you doing anything in the beverage side is it mostly all just food? 21:01.22Andy Gellerte 21:04.27Andy GellertNo, I mean, we the beverage side we have, so we, Cipriani, you know, the so we we handle all their CPG items. 21:09.46vigorbrandingMm-hmm Okay Mm-hmm 21:13.80Andy GellertSo they make a the bulini mix, non-alcoholic bulini. So we’re slowly getting it. That’s our beverage and, you know, we’ll see where that takes us. but That’s new space for us. 21:24.96Andy GellertAnd we’re doing it on the retail side. Now we’re looking to try to listen to all the beverage distributors we don’t really touch on. So we’re getting a ah handle on that business as well. 21:31.95vigorbrandingMm-hmm. Yeah. 21:34.96Andy GellertSo that’s the only part of beverage. know I’m an investor in a few CPG, like Ollie Pop and Lemon Perfect, a few others. 21:40.57vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 21:43.06Andy GellertBut but not I think that’s a tough space. But I think we’re we’re getting our feet wet with this Trippiani land. 21:48.39vigorbrandingSee, that’s interesting. 21:48.67Andy GellertWe’re very excited. 21:50.05vigorbrandingYou’re 11 perfect. We just took over their space in Atlanta. They’re headquartered in Atlanta, yeah. 21:53.76Andy GellertOh, 21:54.76vigorbrandingAnd we just took over their space. They went ah they went all virtual, so yeah. 21:58.07Andy Gellertyeah. Yani went to Cornell with me. 22:00.32vigorbrandingYeah. Oh, is that right? 22:00.83Andy GellertYeah, yeah he’s a you should get him on your podcast. 22:03.45vigorbrandingWell, I’ve met him, he’s a great guy. 22:05.26Andy GellertI he’s Mr. Energy. It was his birthday this week. 22:06.69vigorbrandingOh my gosh. 22:07.72Andy GellertSo I just I love that guy. 22:08.28vigorbrandingIs that right? I will reach out to him. Yeah, i we you you can you can appreciate this, Andy, you know me pretty well. 22:11.20Andy GellertHe 22:15.37vigorbrandingSo i’m goingnna I was gonna sublease his his office, right? So you know it’s a real estate deal. I’m gonna sublease it, we’re gonna move from one ah ah one office to this other office. So I talked to him and he was like, he was going 180 miles an hour and it was great and all that. 22:29.28vigorbrandingAnd I was like, I really like this guy. And I’m like, 22:31.92Andy GellertHe’s an infectious personality. 22:32.86vigorbrandingYeah. 22:33.53Andy Gellertyou 22:33.75vigorbrandingAnd I’m like, you know, johnny i said hey if you want, I mean, I’ll, I’ll do the deal here with you, but if you want to stay, like, you know, I mean your energy and what you’re, you’re in the beverage, that’s what we do. 22:44.21vigorbrandingI mean, you can stay, you know, like if you have meetings here and like your, if your people come in, like it’s a big enough space for all of us, I’m not asking for anything on the other side. 22:46.07Andy GellertYeah. 22:51.86vigorbrandingah You can stay. I mean, I just i thought energy, you know, creates more energy. So, and we talked about that, but then he was like, you know, isn’t that crazy? 22:57.60Andy GellertThat’s so funny to know that guy. I met him at Expo West. And he had a small little table. 23:03.20vigorbrandingYep. 23:03.40Andy GellertAnd I’m like, wow, this guy’s this guy has a firecracker. 23:07.14vigorbrandingYeah. 23:07.31Andy GellertAnd I’m like, um’m I’m supporting you. 23:09.42vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. 23:09.51Andy GellertAnd it’s a great story. 23:11.92vigorbrandingThat’s very cool. That’s the end goes to show you know everybody that’s amazing to me amazing. That’s funny. 23:17.14Andy GellertTake that, Clara. 23:21.03vigorbrandingI’ll make sure we tell her that. 23:22.87Andy Gellertbut 23:22.95vigorbrandingSo, all right, now I’m gonna bring up something, I guess negative or whatever, but inflation. Inflation is, ah you know, is it affects every industry, especially food. 23:28.56Andy GellertIt’s tough. its you know 23:30.55vigorbrandingYeah. how How much of an impact has that had on you guys? 23:32.99Andy GellertThat’s a very important product. 23:33.03vigorbrandingand 23:34.29Andy GellertSo our product are expensive already. And so it’s tough. We have to find you know so you know find other opportunities. That’s why we invested in this cafe spice that makes meals. 23:44.93Andy GellertSo maybe we make things more efficient for more of our customers and look at other opportunities. Maybe so source something that’s coming from Europe, getting it from South America. And and we’re always looking for ways to skin. 23:59.19Andy GellertWe started importing French fries from Belgium. to the East Coast because it’s it’s more effective and looking at opportunities like that. and Now we’re looking at opportunities in India. You always have to turn over rocks, look for more opportunities. It’s scary. 24:14.30Andy Gellertand it’s it’s you know the It’s all the news, the the price inflation. So we’re always looking for newer opportunities to try to make things better for our customers. 24:25.43vigorbrandingAnd being a global you know accessing globally with conflict and things like that, I mean obviously that’s affecting everything. i mean are you having are you ah is there um Is there ever a chance where one area of the business is sort of shut down or hey we can’t get this from there? 24:40.46Andy GellertYeah, things happen all the time. I mean, you know, when the Ukraine war first started, you know, it was it was a big factor because happened old Europe was tough. 24:42.39vigorbrandingIt’s crazy. 24:51.28Andy GellertAnd then when there was a ah big problem of freight from the from from Asia, supply chain issues from COVID. I mean, we’ve we’ve seen them all, Mike. 25:00.35vigorbrandingcrazy 25:01.71Andy GellertAnd now ah there’s an impending dock strike that’s going to come. So that’s going to affect from Maine all the way to Texas. 25:07.59vigorbrandinghear about that? 25:09.05Andy Gellertand 25:09.51vigorbrandingYeah. 25:09.86Andy GellertThat’s really making us very nervous and our customers nervous. 25:11.55vigorbrandingOh yeah. 25:12.86Andy GellertSo, but we, you know, we do the best we can and we keep fighting every day, you know, get up, get up and play some tennis, you know. 25:13.80vigorbrandingWow. 25:18.34vigorbrandingYes, I was gonna say, you get played tennis and smile and have a positive attitude and that’s the secret sauce. 25:23.15Andy GellertYou just got to, you know. 25:25.04vigorbrandingYou know, and I do love because every time I’m talking, I think, I think you always say, yeah, I played tennis with my dad this morning and you know, family businesses, there’s so many family businesses that end up like not talking to each other and you hear all the the generational strife or the the falling apart. 25:37.72vigorbrandingThe fact that you you still hang with your dad, my dad was my best friend. So that’s just so near and dear to me. It’s incredible. I think that’s so awesome. 25:43.18Andy GellertWell, today is a little, today is a little flat with him. I showed up at his house at 10 to 6, pouring rain, and the the match was canceled. So I had to wake up for nothing, and I’m a little annoyed. 25:50.67vigorbrandingah Oh boy. 25:53.10Andy GellertBut that doesn’t matter at all. 25:55.76vigorbrandingI hope you don’t ever let him win. 25:57.56Andy GellertWell, i I’m his partner. He doesn’t move very well, and people, no one was allowed to drop shot him, you know? 25:59.16vigorbrandingOkay. 26:04.11Andy Gellertget Everyone starts booing, whoever dropped off him. 26:06.88vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. 26:07.02Andy GellertBut it was an accident. They’re like, no, you know? He’s got a bunch of rules, you know? 26:11.16vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. It’s his own tennis game, right? It’s his own. 26:13.99Andy Gellerttheel game is his ze tennis game 26:16.17vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. So, if I if i may ask, and I know if there’s something you can’t say, that’s fine, but what’s what’s next for Gellert Global? I mean, what is anything new on the horizon, anything exciting you could talk about? 26:23.54Andy Gellerti We’re looking at more opportunities. you know we will be like We have such a great team. We have such great suppliers, such great employees, such great customers. We just want to keep doing what we’re doing and look for more opportunities. And if it makes sense to to make an acquisition, we’re going to do it. 26:40.44Andy Gellertand uh, it’s, it’s fun. You know, I mean, you know, just look at my cousin and the five guys, we were like 12, five guys. Now this year, by the end of the year, we’ll have a hundred. I mean, it’s just, uh, opportunistic and good people and growth to move forward. 26:50.43vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. 26:57.42vigorbrandingYeah. And, and Dan Rowe, as you mentioned, he’s a king of a guy and he, he was actually on the podcast and he, he’s, he’s fantastic. 27:00.10Andy GellertYeah. 27:03.17vigorbrandingSo that’s good company right there. 27:05.70Andy GellertYeah. Yeah. We were at a YPL event and he’s like, and we’ we’re looking My cousin at the time had a bunch of cinnabons and we’re looking for our second concept and we’re at a YPO in DC. 27:11.89vigorbrandingUh-huh. 27:15.43Andy GellertHe’s like, Andy, come try this concept. And I took a bite of the five guy burger. I’m like, this is like a, like the, when you taste a cinnabon for the first time, it’s wow factor. 27:23.93vigorbrandingRight. Yeah. 27:25.78Andy GellertI called my cousin and the next thing we know, we you know we’re down there signing the deal. So it was, it’s been a great journey. 27:30.70vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Yeah. Fantastic. Very cool. All right. So now I asked this question. I have one last question, right? And this probably, well, I don’t know if it’ll be easy for you, but it’s not like you have to say, you can’t say five guys. 27:41.96vigorbrandingSo I have to fill it out there. So, but if you have one final meal, what would you eat and why, and I’m going to say this too. 27:48.70Andy GellertLike, that’s the hardest thing because I love. 27:48.90vigorbrandingAnd and and who with, I want to know who with. 27:52.53Andy GellertThat’s like the hardest question anyone can ever ask me. I love like, it’s like, we I think I told you was before we started out that you was open with my son and my wife and there’s so much food options. 28:00.19vigorbrandingYeah. 28:04.26Andy GellertI had a headache. I couldn’t find what to get. Would I get to the Korean bowl or the palette for the steak sandwich? or or the fancy chicken with truffles, the dumplings. 28:15.10Andy Gellertyou know i’m like I almost get a headache, I can’t even decide. 28:15.19vigorbrandingyeah 28:19.04Andy Gellertso back It’s impossible. I just i love eating, I love food experiences, I love being surprised. I like going to a chef and say, just surprise me. 28:29.38Andy Gellertonly even Just give me what you you you do best and let me try it. 28:29.31vigorbrandingYeah. 28:33.30Andy Gellertand and you know it’s really i can’t i There’s not one meal that I have to have. i 28:39.23vigorbrandingYeah. 28:40.25Andy GellertI love a good sandwich. I love a good burger. I got a good steak. I like Italian, French, Spanish food, everything. 28:45.72vigorbrandingYep. ah You know, it’s funny. i I’m the same way. I’m lucky. I can eat anything. Like I don’t get nothing. I don’t have any allergies. I don’t get sicker. But you know, if I have a go to at a certain thing at a certain place, i will I’ll have a go at my go to. 28:56.26vigorbrandingBut nine out of 10 times when I go to a restaurant, like whatever the chef wants to make, because I figured he’s gonna put his heart and soul on it. 28:56.44Andy Gellerte 29:00.90Andy GellertYeah. 29:02.21vigorbrandingRight. If it’s, if I’m asking him his opinion. 29:02.59Andy Gellertbut i agree yeah if if if If they put it on the menu and then they’re behind it, I would take their recognition and set something I really want. 29:05.89vigorbrandingYeah. 29:09.81Andy Gellertso My father, yeah. 29:10.21vigorbrandingRight. That’s right. That’s right. You nailed it. And I love the fact that you mentioned the U.S. Open and there was somebody there at the U.S. Open that had better seats than you, which was your. Of course, yeah. 29:21.87vigorbrandingAndy, you know, I love being with you. I love talking to you and I appreciate your time. ah Just thank you so much for being on Fork Tales. 29:28.25Andy Gellertah mike First of all, congratulations to you and the organization you built and you’ve always been You’re always smiling, too. i mean actually That’s why we like each other so much. 29:36.16vigorbrandingYeah. 29:36.89Andy GellertWe’re always smiling. Have a good time. And your trends are amazing. And I really enjoyed seeing you and doing this with yourself. 29:43.81vigorbrandingfantastic well thank you so much 29:45.78Andy GellertAll right? 29:46.39vigorbrandingtake care 29:46.78Andy GellertTake care. Bye. 29:47.78vigorbrandingright 30:07.41vigorbrandingFantastic. 30:11.01vigorbrandingWell, thank you so much. Take care. 

Shannon is VP of Marketing for Rubix Foods. Rubix bills itself as “a premier culinary and food science-focused provider of flavor and functional ingredients, offering up insight-driven concepts and breakthrough food solutions for industry leading restaurants, retailers and manufacturers in the United States.”Rubix works with about 70% of the top QSR and FSR chains with a focus on sauces, glazes and spreads. Rubix has a full R&D team that works on new flavors and processes to help with shelf life and other factors. Consumers today demand specific flavors from specific parts of the world. The quick-service restaurant (QSR) industry faces unique challenges in product development. Scaling products to meet operational demands, managing supply chains, and maintaining cost-effectiveness are all critical. Products must also maintain consistent taste, shelf stability, and not require refrigeration, adding to the complexity. This differs from fine dining, where chefs can source fresh ingredients from farmers’ markets and prepare them on-site. The technicalities involved in QSR make the development process much more intricate and demanding compared to traditional restaurant models.Rubix Foods created the NEXT Flavor Network, an insight generator comprised of an exclusive group of social influencers who have joined the Rubix team to bring Gen Z-approved concepts to restaurant menus. QUOTES “What really sets (Rubix Foods) apart is the market research and consumer insights, which plays a huge role in what we do, and also speed-to-market. Because of our size and the team members that we have here we are able to be much more nimble and agile.” (Shannon) “We’re able to help restaurants capitalize on (flavor trends) at the peak of their virality and take advantage of trends much faster than (competitors).” (Shannon) “Gen Z is the most diverse demographic in history and they’re really excited about trying new flavors. Social media is a part of that.” (Shannon) “We’re seeing a lot of really exciting flavor profiles entering the marketplace. Like Korean flavors and Korean barbeque, Hawaiian flavors, a lot of spins on tropical and Caribbean flavors. It’s been really exciting. Not much is off limits right now.” (Shannon) “We all eat food. We all have our own unique food experiences. So it’s extremely interesting and nuanced and novel to see how other people are experiencing food. Food influencers have really tapped into that.” (Shannon) “There are very few companies that can allow brands to take advantage of social trends at the peak of their virality and actually get them on a menu while consumers still care about it. That is what brands need to do if they want to win with Gen Z.” (Shannon)

Renfro Foods is a privately owned, award-winning food producer of salsas, sauces and relishes, including 30 Mrs. Renfro’s products, located in Fort Worth, Texas. Founded in 1940, Renfro Foods is owned and managed by the second and third generations of the Renfro family. Its products are sold in the United States, the Caribbean, Canada and the U.K.As president of Renfro Foods, Doug works closely with his cousins Becky and James to run the company. In particular, Doug focuses on research and development, private label and contract packing, quality assurance, sales and marketing, legal, information technology and a dozen other areas Doug and his cousins strive for family harmony in managing the company and don’t make any major decisions without a unanimous vote of support. For Doug, one of the benefits of working with family is the ability to be brutally honest with each other and still maintain a civil and professional relationship.  The team at Renfro Foods pays close attention to flavor trends to identify new salsa flavors.  QUOTES “When I got out of college, if I had come to work here I would have been chopping cabbage. The executive positions were filled by my dad and my uncle.” (Doug)“When I came (to Renfro Foods) I had been in charge of corporate accounting for a billion dollar company. My uncle was still doing pricing on a legal pad with his desk calculator. I said, ‘Here’s a spreadsheet. It’s going to instantaneously recalculate the cost of thousands of items in a millisecond.’ He saw what that did and he said, ‘Can you do that every 90 days from now on?’” (Doug) “If you don’t demand as much of your ego to be around, one of the secrets I tell (people) is get somebody without your last name to suggest the same idea you’ve been suggesting that’s been ridiculed and suddenly it’s a great idea.” (Doug)“If you take business things personally, that screws (family) relationships up.” (Doug) “I think we lost money on every jar of Raspberry Chipotle we sold last year. Thankfully we didn’t sell many.” (Doug)“I want everything on the label to be tasteable but you can’t always afford to do that without losing money,” (Doug)  TRANSCRIPT 00:01.23vigorbrandingAll right, hey there, Fork Tales listeners and viewers. I am really happy to be joined today by a good friend of mine, Doug Renfro. Doug is president of Renfro Foods. And I had to say it like 25 times because somehow the word foods after Renfro, I mean, foods in Renfro is easy. 00:13.93Doug Renfrosorry 00:15.18vigorbrandingRenfro Foods, I just struggled. But anyway, ah he is the the the president of Mrs. Renfro’s Salsa. ah Not only are they a family owned company, which always is interesting, but they’re one of the most innovative companies I know. Doug, welcome and thank you very much for joining us and for your time. 00:32.73Doug RenfroThanks, happy to be here. 00:34.60vigorbrandingSo ah you know I’m going to start off by pointing out i’ve I’ve been very fortunate to know you and to ah have your product. And it’s phenomenal. And I’m not just saying that. ah Case in point, I have three jars behind me that were supposed to be props for this presentation. There were actually more than three. But my favorite one was sent to me, which I thank you for, and I ate it. So ah I don’t have as many jars here as I should probably. but Anyway, it’s a phenomenal product and you know, anyway, I appreciate you sending us some samples. So so tell us tell us about you and Renfro Foods and the story and your role in the company. 01:12.84Doug RenfroSure, we’re an 84-year-old family business and all the development has been organic. My granddad distributed grocery items in the 30s and made it through the Depression and thought, you know what would be fun, we’ll quit my job and start a company out of the house. So in 1940, he and my grandmother started out of their house and for 12 years or so they distributed grocery items and flavored vinegars and different things, spices. And around 1952, they moved into the core building that I actually sit in. We have now two city blocks in the street in between, but we were just one little brick building. And he started making syrup, and I like to point out there were no maple trees harmed. 01:50.40Doug Renfroyeah And then they made relishes. And you know, when when I do a trade show, like we’ll be in New York together two weeks from now and it’s a fancy food show and people will walk up and say, are these are grandmother’s recipes. 01:56.90vigorbrandingYep. 02:01.53Doug RenfroAnd I always say, no, but wouldn’t that be cool? ah You know, nobody ate Chipotle in 1940, 50, 60, 70. It’s all very organic dynamic. 02:07.41vigorbrandingRight. 02:09.47Doug RenfroSo when I was a kid, we just made Southern relishes, which had the velocity of a snail. So we had no money. And then we got in, my dad and my uncle got into taco sauce, thank God, in the seventies, which became macanti, which became salsa. and and ah and so And separating that you know for a moment, I went i worked at the nastiest jobs we had you know every summer, sixth grade, through high school. and In college, I lived at home and mixed the spices in the afternoon, went to school in the morning, very glamorous life. So I got out of college early, went to work for Ross Perot’s company at the time EDS. I was here when they sold it to General Motors, you know wearing a coat and tie every day, going to Detroit. My car did not smell of oregano anymore. 02:46.98Doug Renfroah Very cool, good people, smart people, good money, got my MBA, CMA, and some other acronyms. But, you know, corporate life will suck the soul out of your body. So I came back 32 years ago and working with my cousins, my dad, my late uncle, it’s been a lot of fun and to your point, You know, we weren’t getting a lot of sales with mild, medium, and hot. So we started creating things like craft beer salsa, mango habanero, tequila, I think. And not at um a gourmet store, housewarming gift price, but at an everyday in your grocery cart price. 03:18.68vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 03:19.53Doug RenfroAnd we’re fortunate now to 600 brands in the country where Mrs. 03:19.54vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 03:23.12Doug RenfroRimbros is number eight. I caution people not to get excited because we doubled would be number eight. but Big folks are big. 03:31.24vigorbrandingyeah Yeah, well, hey, they are. But you know what, though? Your product is fantastic. And in this in this day and age, we do a quench. We do a ton of CPG work, right? And craft and ah the originality and having a real story It’s super important to people and so products like yours. I mean you yeah I mean, I know you’ve been doing this or for forever you guys but but it’s a really it feels like a really great time for this type of brand and this type of product and Again, it’s all about the quality. 03:52.55Doug Renfroyou 03:59.98vigorbrandingSo I you know, the mango habanero as I said is my favorite. What’s your favorite? 04:05.52Doug RenfroWeirdly, that is also my favorite. 04:06.85vigorbrandingAh Nice 04:06.92Doug Renfroand and i’ve you know all Almost all the items now are recipes I’ve gotten to create over the years with my vast lack of culinary training. um but we you know I would look at things like Mango Habanero specifically. 04:17.07vigorbrandingThank 04:19.83Doug RenfroI was at a white tablecloth restaurant. I saw Mango Habanero on Chutney on Halibut, and I followed it away as something maybe five years later, we could sell every day in the grocery stores. 04:22.21vigorbrandingyou. 04:29.82Doug Renfroand That’s exactly how it turned out. and Even then, there was pushback internally about, you know, it sounds like a bizarre combination. And of course, it’s a better number two seller now for quite some time nationwide, Canada, UK. But ah it’s also, you know, a normal trend now. And that’s what you’re seeing like, you know, fast food places now have Carolina Reaper french fries, which, yeah you know, 20 years ago, nobody knew what it was. 04:50.78vigorbrandingYeah. 04:54.17Doug Renfro10 years ago, it was crazy, exotic, ridiculous. And now it’s almost an everyday thing. 04:58.86vigorbrandingRight, right. So we are you Mrs. Renfro then, if you’re making all these recipes? 05:03.42Doug RenfroIf you take the, my grandmother’s on the side of the label, if you put a wig on me and shave the beard, I think that’s what you get. 05:11.51vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. yeah it’ so Okay, so talking about family here. I mean, you know some family owned companies, you and I know know a lot of people are part of family owned companies. ah Some families require members and future leaders to spend time outside the company. ah Was your time required and did you find that time valuable? And then or or did you and did you always plan? I know you worked there when you were young. Did you always plan on coming back to the company? Talk a little bit about that. 05:36.67Doug RenfroSure. My time was not required. Frankly, when I got out of college, if I had come to work here, I would have been chopping cabbage. 05:43.53vigorbrandingYeah. 05:43.60Doug Renfroah they they The executive positions were filled by my dad and my uncle. <unk>s such a tiny We’re small now. We were tiny, tiny back then. So I had to go somewhere else if I wanted to not wear jeans and be covered with cabbage and onions. And I think it was wildly helpful. like When I came back, I had been you know in charge of corporate accounting for a billion dollar company in some areas. and My uncle was still doing pricing on a legal pad with his hand desk calculator. And I said, look, here’s a spreadsheet. And it’s going to instantaneously recalculate the cost of thousands of items in a millisecond. 06:16.59Doug RenfroAnd he saw what that did. And he’s like, can you do that every 90 days from now on? stick yeah Having the discipline and learning and the networking was just fabulous. And I will tell you, we needed a ah filtration system for the fourth generation. So I said, we can’t hire 14 people just because they want to work here. And I said, in that case, for that gen, yes, you have to work somewhere. You have to graduate college. You have to work somewhere else for at least two years and a real job. 06:41.34vigorbrandingyep 06:42.42Doug RenfroAnd then we can talk about management training on your management track. 06:44.65vigorbrandinghere 06:46.70Doug RenfroAnd ah today we have zero fourth-generation working here. But we have we have that off and on. About half of them have done so well they could not remotely afford to take a pay cut and come back here. 06:59.74Doug RenfroYeah. 06:59.93vigorbrandingYeah, that’s great. And my my rule has always been two years and one promotion. 07:01.41Doug Renfroyeah 07:04.61vigorbrandingIf you want to come in the family, in the business, ah you got to, you know, college education, two years and one promotion. So ah and you know what, it’s neither where my girls or seem to be remotely interested. So they’re probably smarter, they but they got a good education. 07:18.22Doug Renfroand And we’ve got our age range on Gen 4 is like 23 to 38. 07:19.88vigorbrandingkind 07:23.63Doug RenfroSo you know some of them, I didn’t come back till I was 29, I think. 07:23.85vigorbrandingMm hmm. 07:27.19Doug RenfroSo there’s you know wait we’ve got lots of time. I’m not ancient yet, but you know I’ve still got some time in me. 07:33.14vigorbrandingYeah, well, yeah, sure. Of course you do. and Now you said, in one of your quotes, it was something like, ah ah if people say their family business journey, if if people have said ah their family business journey has been a smooth road, they’re a smooth liar. 07:46.85Doug Renfroso 07:46.95vigorbrandingah but Talk a little bit about the struggles and the family and all that kind of stuff. 07:47.79Doug Renfrowell 07:51.08vigorbrandingJust, you know, like some of the things you have to overcome, because it’s always amazing to me. ah ah Just, you know, what what all is involved there. 07:59.16Doug RenfroYeah, it’s it’s funny. i’ve I’ve spoken to the TCU family business class like eight years in a row now. And I usually start out with how much time do I have? um But is anyone recording this? I’m like you. But you know, one of the things you deal with is like my late uncle and my dad, they, to me, they see me in diapers when I started talking because that’s how they met me. 08:19.23vigorbrandingMm hmm. 08:19.42Doug RenfroAnd it’s hard, you know, they’ve seen you be a silly kid and get in trouble. And now I’m telling them they need to change the branding. You’re like, you know, what’s this little kid saying, shut up and get back over there. And frankly, if you don’t have, you know, if you don’t demand this much of your ego to be around, one of the secrets I tell them is get somebody without your last name to suggest the same idea you’ve been suggesting that’s been ridiculed. And suddenly, it’s a great idea. 08:42.33vigorbrandingHmm. 08:43.81Doug RenfroAnd actually, it becomes their idea. And as long as you can live with that, you know, if it’s all for the greater good, you know, foul I don’t have to get credit for everything, and I don’t have to get immediate results. It’s slow, steady progress to me. Because you and I have seen a lot of people that you know skyrocket up and then skyrocket back down. 08:59.28vigorbrandingYep, that’s right. 09:00.96Doug RenfroIt’s about gradual process. We have we have no investors. you know We just use bank debt when we need it. um It’s all still family controlled. And because of that, it’s more slow, steady path. But yeah, well I think you know I’ve told you that my dad and my late uncle had a rule. They were 50-50. They had a a little sister who didn’t work here, but she could be a swing vote, but they had an agreement. They never ever did anything important if it wasn’t a unanimous vote. They didn’t go get a tiebreaker. So now my cousins and I who run it, we have 84% of the votes of the company, and we could outvote each other on certain things. 09:30.24vigorbrandingThat’s great. 09:38.26Doug RenfroAnd we’ve done the same thing. if it’s I’m talking about a capital expenditure branding campaign, a new flavor. big things. We have to be unanimous or we don’t do it. I just assume I’m missing something if I can’t convince them both and vice versa. And now that’s key. I’ve seen friends who make a lot more money and have a lot more wealth, who have a sibling they can’t talk to, they’ve never spoken to in 20 years, and it breaks their parents’ heart. And we’ve chosen not to do that. 09:59.72vigorbrandingyeah Yep. 10:02.50Doug RenfroWe’ve we’ve gone with family harmony, so we sub-optimize, but it’s a family business. 10:02.81vigorbrandingYeah. 10:05.90Doug RenfroWe can do that. 10:06.99vigorbrandingYep. And you know, that’s, ah that’s really important. I mean, I know you obviously get it because you said all those words. and and But, but, you know, when you have the family involved, I mean, you know, the family, it’s important. 10:17.69Doug RenfroOkay. 10:18.01vigorbrandingthere’s I don’t know that there’s anything more important than family. And you’re, you know, the the company is what supports the family. And so if they can’t all be harm, if there can’t be harmony, At the end of the day, we have. and so I admire you for that, the way you’re handling it, because ah as you’re you’re right. We’ve seen a lot of ah more, unfortunately, probably more examples than not where you know somebody gets ah iced out, or they’re not talking, or you know the families are completely ah dysfunctional now, you know but maybe maybe the business survives, or maybe it doesn’t. and That’s just tragic. so 10:49.71vigorbrandingAnd so speaking of, your Uncle Bill, you said, I think one of your other quotes in an interview said something like, you can be brutally honest with each other about ideas. ah he could He could call you an idiot and it’s no big deal. So, I mean, that’s that’s that’s a benefit, right? That level of honesty. 11:03.05Doug RenfroYeah, that’s key is that we were i famously tell that story that like I would say to him or he to me that, you know, I think what you just said was the most stupid thing I’ve ever heard from a business perspective, where do you want to go to lunch? Because we didn’t, you know, there was no personal aspect to it. And and that’s key. If you take business things personally, that screws the relationships all up. 11:22.85vigorbrandingso you Now, back to the salsa. You have 20 different flavors. and how do you I know you’re the one that’s ah um coming up with a lot of the different formulas. How are you finding that inspiration? I mean, just out there in the world, i mean you said that the the the the mango habanero came from ah a meal you had somewhere. is that Is that pretty much what you’re looking at, just trends and things like that? 11:42.45Doug RenfroYeah, I tell people I’m cursed to have to eat at the nicest restaurants in the nation and, you know, read cool food magazines and see what’s going on. But yeah, it is that that simple, which is not actually simple, is always looking around. You want to see what’s on the edge. You know, I we developed a bacon queso for a customer. And as you know, a lot of what we do is creating things for other people. Our names know we’re on it. There’s no indication we made it. ah But people looked at us for ideation. I’ve had grocery chains come to me and they’re like, what should we do for a private label salsa? 12:12.69Doug RenfroIt’s going to be our first time. And I don’t mean, we’ll never make the mild, medium, and hot for the big folks, but if they want a pineapple chipotle or something, they were one of the few players that they will come to. 12:19.59vigorbrandingRight. 12:22.91Doug RenfroAnd i’ll I’ll give them my ideas. Half the time they run with that, say make some recipes for us. Half the time they do the total opposite of what I suggested. As long as they pay us, I’m fine. 12:31.59vigorbrandingYeah, makes sense. 12:31.88Doug Renfroum But yeah, you’re looking at, and and as you know with trends, most of them won’t become a mango habanero or a ghost pepper, which are in a habanero, which are top sellers. You know, I thought pomegranate chipotle was a great idea. Not many other people did. ah So, you know, you end up DC and you ski rationalization um is painful, but we do go through that. 12:49.81vigorbrandingWell, and you have to balance that. like you You can be out there too far out on the trends. I mean, a quench, we’ we’re big on trends. We do trends presentations every year, and I know you’ve seen them and been a part of them. And you know so you you see these things that are out there. You want to kind of be first to market, but that can be dangerous because you know maybe maybe the pomegranate is going to be something that will be fantastic maybe in another six months. If you’re too far out in front, you can you can you know get delisted, as you said. or But if you if you would just sit back and be hot and medium and you know mild, I mean, that’s no good either. 13:22.12vigorbrandingSo I really i admire what you’ve done. And I think that the the branding you’ve done and the flavoring you’ve done is fantastic. And just just for all honesty, I don’t do the branding. I mean, your your your design package stuff is impeccable. And I’ve always been a big fan of it. So ah congratulations on that. 13:39.90Doug RenfroThank you. 13:42.28vigorbrandingSo, I mean, now, how many do you try and make? I mean, like, ah is there in your mind, you say, hey, we should come up with two new SKUs a year? Is it sort of like when I find something I like, we’ll make it? ah how does How does that work? 13:55.53Doug RenfroBut it’s two different answers based on when it was. When I came back, we we weren’t really in grocery stores per se. 13:58.43vigorbrandingOkay. 14:02.35Doug RenfroWe were in fruit stands at the time and different things. So we were fighting for our lives. My cousins and I needed more money. Our dads wanted more money. We needed it. You were raising families. 14:12.71vigorbrandingYeah. 14:13.20Doug Renfroand so we were literally being told no constantly go away because we had hot medium mild and green taco sauce. That’s all we had. And so with no permission, one day when nobody was looking, I added black beans to the medium. Then I added the habanero, which was crazy exotic sexy at the time, you know, super hot. And we would, my sales director and I, he’s been with us 32 years and it’s non-family. We would go to retailers around the country and in Canada and say, hey, I know you have a million sauces before you throw me out. We have a black bean and a habanero at an everyday price, not a gourmet price. It gives you variety. And they started saying, yeah, that’s they’re delicious. That makes sense. We love your company and your marketing and your products. And this will give us variety. And they started putting it in and we were just you know making it up praying. And so after that, we did a 15:01.69Doug Renfrobut we A couple of years later, we did Chipotle, corn. we i We were early on Chipotle. Nobody could say it, including our own staff. I walked through the office. I’m here. Chipotle. Chipotle. 15:10.26vigorbrandingbut 15:10.84Doug RenfroI’m like, oh my god, we can’t pronounce our own product. ah Then when you when Chipotle, the chain became big, they taught everybody. And then Jack in the Box made a hilarious ad about how to power pronounce it. And so, yeah, I would look at things, you know, I saw a ghost pepper in a chocolate bar. I’d been watching it for a couple of years. When I saw it in a chocolate bar, and I told the family, I think we can put it in salsa. My uncle thought we were gonna get sued, so we put a crossbones skull on it, ex-scary hot. 15:33.05vigorbrandingHmm. 15:34.74Doug Renfroand The Today Show fell in love with it, gave us a solid minute on the Today Show back when we all watched TV and there were no streaming channels. ah Huge success. But at this point, now we’re mature. 15:45.35vigorbrandingYeah. 15:47.18Doug Renfroand frankly we’re busier than ever on rnd but it’s all for food service co-pack and private label clients with renfro what you’ll see is the big chains will want you to give them two items with a significant slotting and kick out your two slowest ones and i’m like no thank you but if you give us two if you’ll give us two more spots incrementally, we’ll take it, and that happens. But for now, when the when COVID hit, the supply chain fund and the inflation that followed that, frankly, we haven’t come up with a new item since Blackberry Serrano was our last one. 16:20.17vigorbrandingNice. 16:20.37Doug RenfroAnd we’ve kind of hunkered down. So you know maybe Pavone pomegranate is next. 16:25.34vigorbrandingThere you go. I love it. 16:26.20Doug RenfroI’m still thinking. 16:29.01vigorbrandingSo what what is the what is the mix between ah branded sales, I’ll say, and and food service ah percentages? 16:36.24Doug Renfroi And there’s there’s branded food service and then Copac Private Label. So it’s three, it’s a triad, which is really nice. It it really, you know, diversifies things for us. And we’re sort of 40, 45% Renfro and then you split the rest of it between food service and and other brands. Like I can take the national retailer usually and show you, you know, two to five other brands that we make and and not all salsas. 16:53.69vigorbrandingThat’s great. 16:59.57vigorbrandingMm 17:00.60Doug RenfroYou know, we we’re acidified foods, condiments, so we can do cheese in a jar, which God didn’t mean to happen. um barbecue sauce, relish, you know, sauces. 17:12.54vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. That’s very cool. um So I mean, the flavor thing, again, is brilliant. And I love all the different combinations and they are delicious. You know, through my career, you know, again, doing CPG for for basically, almost 30 years, I hate to say the agencies around for 33 years, but doing the CPG thing for good, I think 25 years. ah food, um the flavor thing was almost, it almost seems a shortcut because there’s a lot of expense involved in in flavors. But like I remember, okay, that as dumb as this sounds, potato chips. It’s like, you know, ah plain potato chips still sell great, but put flavors in there and we helped many ah snack food brands, currently hers, with a lot of their products and and just adding new flavors all the time. 17:43.66Doug RenfroWow. 17:52.57vigorbrandingJust the consumer loves it. It gets them excited. We even did it with tuna, which, I mean, adding flavor to tuna, ah you know, and it just, we blew sales out of the water. Now, again, the companies were the the R and&D behind it, but we were like all in for the, the you know, the Sriracha flavored and all the different types of ah tuna flavors. And, you know, for Starkus, and it blew them out and the sales went through the roof. 18:14.72Doug RenfroSo. 18:17.12vigorbrandingSo, I mean, the, I know R and&D and I know category extensions can be expensive, but I also think there’s a a sort of a hidden ah marketing excitement. ah It just you know it brings brings energy to the category. And again, when you see your products against across the shelf or those log those those labels across, it’s ah it’s a really impressive uh a lineup i mean how how you mean i do i obviously probably feel the same where you wouldn’t have so many but i mean yeah i’m sure you’re torn like do we want another skew do we not want another skew can you talk a little just a little bit about that 18:51.01Doug RenfroYeah, it’s challenging because everything in life, usually the 80-20 rule works and ours, you know, we have 28 current Renfro SKUs, the top four do have the sales, you know, the top seven or 70% of the sales. 19:01.36vigorbrandinghuh 19:03.24Doug RenfroSo you’re like, well, why don’t we just cut the rest of them because people want variety and the people who want those second tier items. It’s funny on our online platforms, those will be our best sellers because they’re so hard to get and the people don’t care what it costs. They just want it so badly. 19:16.56vigorbrandingRight. 19:17.79Doug Renfroand But and you know no matter what you do, I don’t care if you have another 10 fantastic skews, the top four or five are going to be half your sales. 19:24.24vigorbrandingThat’s right. 19:26.20Doug RenfroIf you go to a farmer’s market and they got like 30 kinds of jelly, you’ll inevitably find that two or three do most of the sales. But they they get attention. People come over there because they want to taste you know coconut marmalade, but they end up buying peach. you 19:40.92vigorbrandingRight, right, right, right. Well, I think I heard you say that the mango habanero is number two. What’s what’s number one? 19:47.21Doug Renfroof habanero, though the one I was told internally would never sell much because it was so hot, but it’d be cute to have. 19:53.27vigorbrandingWow. 19:53.65Doug Renfrothink It’s been number one for over 15 years and I can’t eat it. i Most of the things that are best sellers that I’ve created and when I create for Renfro, my cousins get votes in our sales director. If it’s non Renfro, the customer rules or I’ll make up something. but for rent bro i I first cook with Microsoft Excel because it we line price. It doesn’t matter how good it is if we lose money on it because I can’t charge more on just one item. So first I pre-cook it in Excel and if it’s going to work financially, then I i do what I think is good. and Then I bring in my cousins and a lot of like on the craft beer, we were about ready to take it to New York. 20:31.12Doug Renfrofor the big show and I was like, it’s just kind of bland. And then my cousin Becky was like, yeah, it’s, they need something. 20:36.20vigorbrandingMm hmm, mm hmm. 20:36.98Doug RenfroSo I threw in Guajillo, Ancho and Chipotle in small amounts. It’s kind of a mid range. And we’re like, she’s like, yeah, that’s better. And then James might think it needs to be chunkier who runs production and our sales director might have an opinion. And so it, you know, it is a village situation, but you’re right. Right now we’re like, oh, it gives me a headache to think about another skew. Cause how much could it sell? Your home runs are about one a decade. 21:00.63vigorbrandingyeah Yeah. So you you said something very interesting there. And again, being in a CPG world, I have experience with that whole line pricing thing. So if I can ask, like I’ll say it this way. We had a client we worked with for, oh boy, we built the brand. It was probably a good 18 years and it was Turkey Hill Ice Cream. And Turkey Hill, like most brands, had a line price. But there was an awful lot of a difference in cost to make vanilla ice cream versus, let’s say, ah like a rainforest crunch or anything with nuts and stuff. Because the expense of those nuts, and and people don’t realize that. 21:32.10Doug RenfroRight. 21:33.41vigorbrandingThey just think it’s, oh, it’s two for $5. Or, oh, the price went up. Or it’s 89 cents more. But they they don’t realize. that one flavor to another flavor could be a huge difference and in in the cost to make it. um do you run I mean, I have to imagine you run into that to a degree. And ah you know is that something you have to deal with? 21:52.47Doug Renfroand and Absolutely. I think we lost money on every jar of raspberry chipotle we sold last year. Fortunately, we didn’t sell many. but yeah Raspberry is an item that the price goes wildly up and down, fluctuates like crazy. and Most things don’t. they They go up slowly or they sit still. but Our craft beer salsa, we don’t make as much money on it, but it’s fabulous and tastes great. But yeah would I be thrilled if everybody just bought mild all day long? Absolutely. I could get a new car. 22:23.33vigorbrandingYeah, there you go. 22:23.47Doug Renfroi myself And that is that is exactly the challenging aspect. Blackberry Serrano, you know making that worthy of the name, I get really annoyed when I go to a restaurant. They got a tomatillo pecan, you know smoked watermelon sauce, and all I can taste is salt. I want i want everything on the label to be tastable, but you can’t afford always to do that as much as you’d like without losing money. 22:39.89vigorbrandingRight. Right. Right. Yeah. That’s ah well yeah that’s ah that’s the the the the difficult part of, I’ll say, what you guys do. And that’s that’s putting product ah quality product in ah in a container. Whatever your your product is. It could be ice cream, salsa. It could be potato chips. It can be candy. it’s just the the The flavoring, you can do it. But there’s always these these cost constraints, that line pricing thing. and And then there’s the evil empires of the retailers, right? so 23:12.03Doug RenfroIt’s a delicate dance. 23:12.91vigorbrandingbut its It is a delicate dance and I don’t i don’t envy you. so But hey, you sent us a bunch of salsa, so like we’ve had a lot of parties at Proven Group, and ah but we’re gonna have our first salsa party coming up, so we’re pretty excited about that. um But as we know, um you you have recipes throughout the thing, so ah your salsas aren’t just for tortilla chips. 23:29.66Doug Renfrothe 23:33.46vigorbrandingYou have tons of recipes on your website that you salsa. 23:33.90Doug Renfroright 23:37.31vigorbrandingum So we’ll have some fun. 23:37.41Doug Renfroye 23:38.43vigorbrandingI’m gonna i’m gonna name a few recipes from your site that use salsa. And you can tell me if you’ve tried it and what you thought of it. Ready to roll? 23:46.76Doug RenfroReady. 23:47.46vigorbrandingAll right, we have the Molten Chili Chocolate Brownie with raspberry chipotle salsa. 23:54.46Doug RenfroThat came out of a wine pairing dinner. I thought it was and a winery owner and we’re a charity event and I thought she was inebriated and they She would sober up later. No, she flew us out there and had her chef and they had like 80 people bought tickets and they paired a Renfro item with every course. And for dessert, they they used the raspberry chipotle. I think they blended it with maybe raspberries and sugar also. But ah on chocolate, that did pair nicely. 24:19.34vigorbrandingYeah, ah that’s interesting. 24:19.62Doug Renfroyeah 24:21.07vigorbrandingand But that was your most expensive vitamin, so maybe you don’t want to sell too many of those brownies, right? 24:24.76Doug Renfroah please Yeah, please don’t buy too much of it. 24:29.31vigorbrandingAlright, meatloaf with craft beer salsa. 24:33.21Doug RenfroI have not had that. I have had it with the roasted salsa, which has a really strong mesquite aspect to it. 24:39.53vigorbrandingNice. ah Grilled, and this is also a delicious ah one of your products, but grilled peach salsa chicken with a pe with ah with a peach salsa. 24:48.11Doug Renfroyeah Back in the day when we still had to demo at the booth, that was our go-to. 24:51.39vigorbrandingUh-huh. 24:52.21Doug RenfroAnd and it’s funny, people think they’re cooking. If you say, put a jar of peach salsa in a baggie, throw in the chicken breast, put it in the fridge for an hour or two, then grill it. They think they’re like a gourmet chef. um And it tastes delicious. 25:03.30vigorbrandingYep. 25:04.91Doug RenfroYou can reserve some. ah It’ll caramelize on the grill, and then you can reserve like a third of it and pour it over just as you serve it. 25:07.79vigorbrandingMm 25:10.15Doug RenfroAnd that is delicious and crazy simple. 25:10.85vigorbranding-hmm. Yeah, that’s great. I mean, a very good friend of mine owns a company called Gazebo salad dressing, and he sells way more salad dressing as a marinade than he does as a salad dressing. And it’s really, truly a salad dressing, but people find figured out that you know marinating in this in these products, and I’m sure your products are are phenomenal for that. 25:32.84Doug RenfroAnd I love any recipe that’s take a whole jar and use it. 25:35.06vigorbrandingRight. That’s right. That’s right. 25:36.98Doug RenfroNo tablespoon recipes. 25:38.73vigorbrandingYeah. 25:38.89Doug Renfroyeah 25:39.37vigorbrandingYeah. He he realized that early on. It’s like, well, you know, the more, especially guys, right? Guys are grilling. So what do they do? They dump the whole jar to your point, you know, we’re not, we’re not going to spare anything. 25:45.50Doug RenfroAbsolutely. sister yeah 25:47.93vigorbrandingSo that’s, that’s the perfect consumer right there. 25:48.64Doug Renfroyeah 25:50.55vigorbrandingAll right. spag Spicy spaghetti sauce with medium salsa. 25:54.72Doug RenfroI don’t recall having that. I think we i think my cousin Becky pre-cooked everything before we would let it be on a label back and when we started doing this. I i probably sampled it, but she’s our ah she she cooks as my wife does too. ah gee They’re both excellent cooks and will actually whip these things up. I’m gluten-free too, but my wife can find gluten-free pasta to put that on. 26:16.82vigorbrandingThere you go. 26:16.93Doug RenfroI’ll tell her Michael said we had to taste it. 26:18.85vigorbrandingThere you go. That’s it. That’s it. So the last one is Mexican fudge with green jalapeno salsa. This one isn’t a chocolate fudge, it’s more of a cheese. 26:27.63Doug Renfroyeah When I came back 32 years ago, that was the only recipe we had, and it’s still the most popular. My aunt came up with that, interestingly. and it’s It’s cheddar cheese, eggs, and green salsa, and you just add more green salsa if you want it spicier, and you you put it in a pan, you throw it in the oven for 40 minutes, you go get ready for the party, whatever, take it out, slice it up, put it on triskets or whatever, and people love it. It’s gone, especially when it’s warm, and you serve it that way. ah We call it cowboy cobbler. I mean, there’s a million things, but it’s just three ingredients. like Even I can’t screw it up. 27:01.20vigorbrandingNow you said that that when you do R and&D, it’s your cousins get involved, but you also said like the the really hot, you can’t eat. Like that’s for, is that your palette? Is it just, you don’t really like super spicy or how does that work? 27:10.80Doug RenfroIt hurts. 27:14.06Doug RenfroMy assistant, it’s ah my R and&D guru that I’ve got working with me now the last few years. He’ll make me occasionally do a cutting of like ghost pepper case. So in the morning, I’m like, really? That’s my breakfast. And with ghost pepper, habanero, Carolina Reaper, I can taste two or three, four samples. And I’m done for a few hours because then I’m torched and I can’t distinguish anything different. 27:33.60vigorbrandingRight. 27:37.32Doug RenfroFortunately, I don’t have to very often when we’re coming up with something. um You know, I created a ah special ah triple hot reaper for a business group you and I are in and I tasted that till I couldn’t see my feet and then we said, okay, it must be fine. 27:53.90vigorbrandingWell, that’s fantastic. So tell me, before we wrap up, like what’s next for Renfro Foods? i mean Can you share any details about what you’re cooking up for the future? Anything you’re excited about? Anything that’s going on in the company or in the family? 28:07.24Doug RenfroYeah, that’s always a frustrating thing about doing so much private label and co-pack and food services. I can’t talk about most of it, but it’s really cool. We’re we’re doing things for people like ah the dairy-free queso, you know, that’s nut-based, the things that my 87-year-old father is like, what? 28:22.27vigorbrandingme 28:26.19Doug RenfroThat’s what my grandparents wouldn’t have known. ah We do ethnic sauces. We were always reinvesting in the plant. my My dad, my late uncle, my grandparents taught us don’t ever milk the company. So we doubled our shipping warehouse two years ago. We added a brand new two story production employee break room with QA and production offices above it. We automated some more things on the food service line. We’re always reinvesting. We’re always looking, you know, for the future we’re doing licensing agreements with other brands where we handle the marketing for them and you’ll see if yeah you’re gonna be in the new york show i think you’ll see another brand in our booth that i can talk about then. 28:55.96vigorbrandingAwesome. 28:59.33vigorbrandingYep. 29:04.36vigorbrandingSuper. That’s awesome. I mean, congratulations on all the success. and I mean, you’re, you’re a great president. You’re always very self-deprecating. Absolutely hilarious. Lots of fun. And I think that just, it sort of just, you represent the brand in my mind and in a lot, in all the positive ways, you know, and I would love to see you put a wig on and and try and emulate your camera. That would be, ah that would be fantastic. 29:23.97Doug Renfromaybe yeah yeah 29:25.99vigorbrandingThat’s how you should work the booth. You should be Mrs. Renfro. So, 29:28.46Doug Renfrolike 29:29.43vigorbrandingAll right, so I have one last question I asked this from every guest and it can’t be your product if you had one final meal What would you eat? Maybe where and why? 29:40.36Doug RenfroWell, I forgot the can’t do your problems. You gotta start with chips and salsa. And frankly, I do eat lots of people’s salsa. It’s it’s experimentation, but also, you know, I always ask people, you think the donut shop guy eats a donut every day? You know, you want to change it up. ah for lunch ah For the entree, I think I’d have chicken tikka masala. My wife and I have become big fans of of Indian food and eating it around the world. I would say one of the places in London, I think it’s Rick Road that has all their Indian restaurants. 30:05.10vigorbrandingNice. 30:06.18Doug RenfroAnd then Grand Marnier Soufflé for dessert. It’s one of those things that’s too hard to make at home, but most so hard that it’s hard to find it. There’s a French restaurant locally. I can get it like occasionally and that, now those don’t go together, but you said final meal, so it doesn’t matter. 30:20.00vigorbrandingThat’s it. Final meal. Yeah, that’s what you got to do. That’s fantastic. 30:23.12Doug Renfroah 30:23.48vigorbrandingWell, Doug, thank you very much. 30:24.20Doug Renfroyeah 30:25.29vigorbrandingI look forward to, I know you’re doing ah an event in in in Fort Worth ah for all of us. um That’ll be fantastic. And I will see you at Fancy Food. 30:34.95Doug RenfroSee you there. Thanks again for letting me play. 30:36.83vigorbrandingAll right, pal. Appreciate it.00:01.23vigorbrandingAll right, hey there, Fork Tales listeners and viewers. I am really happy to be joined today by a good friend of mine, Doug Renfro. Doug is president of Renfro Foods. And I had to say it like 25 times because somehow the word foods after Renfro, I mean, foods in Renfro is easy. 00:13.93Doug Renfrosorry 00:15.18vigorbrandingRenfro Foods, I just struggled. But anyway, ah he is the the the president of Mrs. Renfro’s Salsa. ah Not only are they a family owned company, which always is interesting, but they’re one of the most innovative companies I know. Doug, welcome and thank you very much for joining us and for your time. 00:32.73Doug RenfroThanks, happy to be here. 00:34.60vigorbrandingSo ah you know I’m going to start off by pointing out i’ve I’ve been very fortunate to know you and to ah have your product. And it’s phenomenal. And I’m not just saying that. ah Case in point, I have three jars behind me that were supposed to be props for this presentation. There were actually more than three. But my favorite one was sent to me, which I thank you for, and I ate it. So ah I don’t have as many jars here as I should probably. but Anyway, it’s a phenomenal product and you know, anyway, I appreciate you sending us some samples. So so tell us tell us about you and Renfro Foods and the story and your role in the company. 01:12.84Doug RenfroSure, we’re an 84-year-old family business and all the development has been organic. My granddad distributed grocery items in the 30s and made it through the Depression and thought, you know what would be fun, we’ll quit my job and start a company out of the house. So in 1940, he and my grandmother started out of their house and for 12 years or so they distributed grocery items and flavored vinegars and different things, spices. And around 1952, they moved into the core building that I actually sit in. We have now two city blocks in the street in between, but we were just one little brick building. And he started making syrup, and I like to point out there were no maple trees harmed. 01:50.40Doug Renfroyeah And then they made relishes. And you know, when when I do a trade show, like we’ll be in New York together two weeks from now and it’s a fancy food show and people will walk up and say, are these are grandmother’s recipes. 01:56.90vigorbrandingYep. 02:01.53Doug RenfroAnd I always say, no, but wouldn’t that be cool? ah You know, nobody ate Chipotle in 1940, 50, 60, 70. It’s all very organic dynamic. 02:07.41vigorbrandingRight. 02:09.47Doug RenfroSo when I was a kid, we just made Southern relishes, which had the velocity of a snail. So we had no money. And then we got in, my dad and my uncle got into taco sauce, thank God, in the seventies, which became macanti, which became salsa. and and ah and so And separating that you know for a moment, I went i worked at the nastiest jobs we had you know every summer, sixth grade, through high school. and In college, I lived at home and mixed the spices in the afternoon, went to school in the morning, very glamorous life. So I got out of college early, went to work for Ross Perot’s company at the time EDS. I was here when they sold it to General Motors, you know wearing a coat and tie every day, going to Detroit. My car did not smell of oregano anymore. 02:46.98Doug Renfroah Very cool, good people, smart people, good money, got my MBA, CMA, and some other acronyms. But, you know, corporate life will suck the soul out of your body. So I came back 32 years ago and working with my cousins, my dad, my late uncle, it’s been a lot of fun and to your point, You know, we weren’t getting a lot of sales with mild, medium, and hot. So we started creating things like craft beer salsa, mango habanero, tequila, I think. And not at um a gourmet store, housewarming gift price, but at an everyday in your grocery cart price. 03:18.68vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 03:19.53Doug RenfroAnd we’re fortunate now to 600 brands in the country where Mrs. 03:19.54vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 03:23.12Doug RenfroRimbros is number eight. I caution people not to get excited because we doubled would be number eight. but Big folks are big. 03:31.24vigorbrandingyeah Yeah, well, hey, they are. But you know what, though? Your product is fantastic. And in this in this day and age, we do a quench. We do a ton of CPG work, right? And craft and ah the originality and having a real story It’s super important to people and so products like yours. I mean you yeah I mean, I know you’ve been doing this or for forever you guys but but it’s a really it feels like a really great time for this type of brand and this type of product and Again, it’s all about the quality. 03:52.55Doug Renfroyou 03:59.98vigorbrandingSo I you know, the mango habanero as I said is my favorite. What’s your favorite? 04:05.52Doug RenfroWeirdly, that is also my favorite. 04:06.85vigorbrandingAh Nice 04:06.92Doug Renfroand and i’ve you know all Almost all the items now are recipes I’ve gotten to create over the years with my vast lack of culinary training. um but we you know I would look at things like Mango Habanero specifically. 04:17.07vigorbrandingThank 04:19.83Doug RenfroI was at a white tablecloth restaurant. I saw Mango Habanero on Chutney on Halibut, and I followed it away as something maybe five years later, we could sell every day in the grocery stores. 04:22.21vigorbrandingyou. 04:29.82Doug Renfroand That’s exactly how it turned out. and Even then, there was pushback internally about, you know, it sounds like a bizarre combination. And of course, it’s a better number two seller now for quite some time nationwide, Canada, UK. But ah it’s also, you know, a normal trend now. And that’s what you’re seeing like, you know, fast food places now have Carolina Reaper french fries, which, yeah you know, 20 years ago, nobody knew what it was. 04:50.78vigorbrandingYeah. 04:54.17Doug Renfro10 years ago, it was crazy, exotic, ridiculous. And now it’s almost an everyday thing. 04:58.86vigorbrandingRight, right. So we are you Mrs. Renfro then, if you’re making all these recipes? 05:03.42Doug RenfroIf you take the, my grandmother’s on the side of the label, if you put a wig on me and shave the beard, I think that’s what you get. 05:11.51vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. yeah it’ so Okay, so talking about family here. I mean, you know some family owned companies, you and I know know a lot of people are part of family owned companies. ah Some families require members and future leaders to spend time outside the company. ah Was your time required and did you find that time valuable? And then or or did you and did you always plan? I know you worked there when you were young. Did you always plan on coming back to the company? Talk a little bit about that. 05:36.67Doug RenfroSure. My time was not required. Frankly, when I got out of college, if I had come to work here, I would have been chopping cabbage. 05:43.53vigorbrandingYeah. 05:43.60Doug Renfroah they they The executive positions were filled by my dad and my uncle. <unk>s such a tiny We’re small now. We were tiny, tiny back then. So I had to go somewhere else if I wanted to not wear jeans and be covered with cabbage and onions. And I think it was wildly helpful. like When I came back, I had been you know in charge of corporate accounting for a billion dollar company in some areas. and My uncle was still doing pricing on a legal pad with his hand desk calculator. And I said, look, here’s a spreadsheet. And it’s going to instantaneously recalculate the cost of thousands of items in a millisecond. 06:16.59Doug RenfroAnd he saw what that did. And he’s like, can you do that every 90 days from now on? stick yeah Having the discipline and learning and the networking was just fabulous. And I will tell you, we needed a ah filtration system for the fourth generation. So I said, we can’t hire 14 people just because they want to work here. And I said, in that case, for that gen, yes, you have to work somewhere. You have to graduate college. You have to work somewhere else for at least two years and a real job. 06:41.34vigorbrandingyep 06:42.42Doug RenfroAnd then we can talk about management training on your management track. 06:44.65vigorbrandinghere 06:46.70Doug RenfroAnd ah today we have zero fourth-generation working here. But we have we have that off and on. About half of them have done so well they could not remotely afford to take a pay cut and come back here. 06:59.74Doug RenfroYeah. 06:59.93vigorbrandingYeah, that’s great. And my my rule has always been two years and one promotion. 07:01.41Doug Renfroyeah 07:04.61vigorbrandingIf you want to come in the family, in the business, ah you got to, you know, college education, two years and one promotion. So ah and you know what, it’s neither where my girls or seem to be remotely interested. So they’re probably smarter, they but they got a good education. 07:18.22Doug Renfroand And we’ve got our age range on Gen 4 is like 23 to 38. 07:19.88vigorbrandingkind 07:23.63Doug RenfroSo you know some of them, I didn’t come back till I was 29, I think. 07:23.85vigorbrandingMm hmm. 07:27.19Doug RenfroSo there’s you know wait we’ve got lots of time. I’m not ancient yet, but you know I’ve still got some time in me. 07:33.14vigorbrandingYeah, well, yeah, sure. Of course you do. and Now you said, in one of your quotes, it was something like, ah ah if people say their family business journey, if if people have said ah their family business journey has been a smooth road, they’re a smooth liar. 07:46.85Doug Renfroso 07:46.95vigorbrandingah but Talk a little bit about the struggles and the family and all that kind of stuff. 07:47.79Doug Renfrowell 07:51.08vigorbrandingJust, you know, like some of the things you have to overcome, because it’s always amazing to me. ah ah Just, you know, what what all is involved there. 07:59.16Doug RenfroYeah, it’s it’s funny. i’ve I’ve spoken to the TCU family business class like eight years in a row now. And I usually start out with how much time do I have? um But is anyone recording this? I’m like you. But you know, one of the things you deal with is like my late uncle and my dad, they, to me, they see me in diapers when I started talking because that’s how they met me. 08:19.23vigorbrandingMm hmm. 08:19.42Doug RenfroAnd it’s hard, you know, they’ve seen you be a silly kid and get in trouble. And now I’m telling them they need to change the branding. You’re like, you know, what’s this little kid saying, shut up and get back over there. And frankly, if you don’t have, you know, if you don’t demand this much of your ego to be around, one of the secrets I tell them is get somebody without your last name to suggest the same idea you’ve been suggesting that’s been ridiculed. And suddenly, it’s a great idea. 08:42.33vigorbrandingHmm. 08:43.81Doug RenfroAnd actually, it becomes their idea. And as long as you can live with that, you know, if it’s all for the greater good, you know, foul I don’t have to get credit for everything, and I don’t have to get immediate results. It’s slow, steady progress to me. Because you and I have seen a lot of people that you know skyrocket up and then skyrocket back down. 08:59.28vigorbrandingYep, that’s right. 09:00.96Doug RenfroIt’s about gradual process. We have we have no investors. you know We just use bank debt when we need it. um It’s all still family controlled. And because of that, it’s more slow, steady path. But yeah, well I think you know I’ve told you that my dad and my late uncle had a rule. They were 50-50. They had a a little sister who didn’t work here, but she could be a swing vote, but they had an agreement. They never ever did anything important if it wasn’t a unanimous vote. They didn’t go get a tiebreaker. So now my cousins and I who run it, we have 84% of the votes of the company, and we could outvote each other on certain things. 09:30.24vigorbrandingThat’s great. 09:38.26Doug RenfroAnd we’ve done the same thing. if it’s I’m talking about a capital expenditure branding campaign, a new flavor. big things. We have to be unanimous or we don’t do it. I just assume I’m missing something if I can’t convince them both and vice versa. And now that’s key. I’ve seen friends who make a lot more money and have a lot more wealth, who have a sibling they can’t talk to, they’ve never spoken to in 20 years, and it breaks their parents’ heart. And we’ve chosen not to do that. 09:59.72vigorbrandingyeah Yep. 10:02.50Doug RenfroWe’ve we’ve gone with family harmony, so we sub-optimize, but it’s a family business. 10:02.81vigorbrandingYeah. 10:05.90Doug RenfroWe can do that. 10:06.99vigorbrandingYep. And you know, that’s, ah that’s really important. I mean, I know you obviously get it because you said all those words. and and But, but, you know, when you have the family involved, I mean, you know, the family, it’s important. 10:17.69Doug RenfroOkay. 10:18.01vigorbrandingthere’s I don’t know that there’s anything more important than family. And you’re, you know, the the company is what supports the family. And so if they can’t all be harm, if there can’t be harmony, At the end of the day, we have. and so I admire you for that, the way you’re handling it, because ah as you’re you’re right. We’ve seen a lot of ah more, unfortunately, probably more examples than not where you know somebody gets ah iced out, or they’re not talking, or you know the families are completely ah dysfunctional now, you know but maybe maybe the business survives, or maybe it doesn’t. and That’s just tragic. so 10:49.71vigorbrandingAnd so speaking of, your Uncle Bill, you said, I think one of your other quotes in an interview said something like, you can be brutally honest with each other about ideas. ah he could He could call you an idiot and it’s no big deal. So, I mean, that’s that’s that’s a benefit, right? That level of honesty. 11:03.05Doug RenfroYeah, that’s key is that we were i famously tell that story that like I would say to him or he to me that, you know, I think what you just said was the most stupid thing I’ve ever heard from a business perspective, where do you want to go to lunch? Because we didn’t, you know, there was no personal aspect to it. And and that’s key. If you take business things personally, that screws the relationships all up. 11:22.85vigorbrandingso you Now, back to the salsa. You have 20 different flavors. and how do you I know you’re the one that’s ah um coming up with a lot of the different formulas. How are you finding that inspiration? I mean, just out there in the world, i mean you said that the the the the mango habanero came from ah a meal you had somewhere. is that Is that pretty much what you’re looking at, just trends and things like that? 11:42.45Doug RenfroYeah, I tell people I’m cursed to have to eat at the nicest restaurants in the nation and, you know, read cool food magazines and see what’s going on. But yeah, it is that that simple, which is not actually simple, is always looking around. You want to see what’s on the edge. You know, I we developed a bacon queso for a customer. And as you know, a lot of what we do is creating things for other people. Our names know we’re on it. There’s no indication we made it. ah But people looked at us for ideation. I’ve had grocery chains come to me and they’re like, what should we do for a private label salsa? 12:12.69Doug RenfroIt’s going to be our first time. And I don’t mean, we’ll never make the mild, medium, and hot for the big folks, but if they want a pineapple chipotle or something, they were one of the few players that they will come to. 12:19.59vigorbrandingRight. 12:22.91Doug RenfroAnd i’ll I’ll give them my ideas. Half the time they run with that, say make some recipes for us. Half the time they do the total opposite of what I suggested. As long as they pay us, I’m fine. 12:31.59vigorbrandingYeah, makes sense. 12:31.88Doug Renfroum But yeah, you’re looking at, and and as you know with trends, most of them won’t become a mango habanero or a ghost pepper, which are in a habanero, which are top sellers. You know, I thought pomegranate chipotle was a great idea. Not many other people did. ah So, you know, you end up DC and you ski rationalization um is painful, but we do go through that. 12:49.81vigorbrandingWell, and you have to balance that. like you You can be out there too far out on the trends. I mean, a quench, we’ we’re big on trends. We do trends presentations every year, and I know you’ve seen them and been a part of them. And you know so you you see these things that are out there. You want to kind of be first to market, but that can be dangerous because you know maybe maybe the pomegranate is going to be something that will be fantastic maybe in another six months. If you’re too far out in front, you can you can you know get delisted, as you said. or But if you if you would just sit back and be hot and medium and you know mild, I mean, that’s no good either. 13:22.12vigorbrandingSo I really i admire what you’ve done. And I think that the the branding you’ve done and the flavoring you’ve done is fantastic. And just just for all honesty, I don’t do the branding. I mean, your your your design package stuff is impeccable. And I’ve always been a big fan of it. So ah congratulations on that. 13:39.90Doug RenfroThank you. 13:42.28vigorbrandingSo, I mean, now, how many do you try and make? I mean, like, ah is there in your mind, you say, hey, we should come up with two new SKUs a year? Is it sort of like when I find something I like, we’ll make it? ah how does How does that work? 13:55.53Doug RenfroBut it’s two different answers based on when it was. When I came back, we we weren’t really in grocery stores per se. 13:58.43vigorbrandingOkay. 14:02.35Doug RenfroWe were in fruit stands at the time and different things. So we were fighting for our lives. My cousins and I needed more money. Our dads wanted more money. We needed it. You were raising families. 14:12.71vigorbrandingYeah. 14:13.20Doug Renfroand so we were literally being told no constantly go away because we had hot medium mild and green taco sauce. That’s all we had. And so with no permission, one day when nobody was looking, I added black beans to the medium. Then I added the habanero, which was crazy exotic sexy at the time, you know, super hot. And we would, my sales director and I, he’s been with us 32 years and it’s non-family. We would go to retailers around the country and in Canada and say, hey, I know you have a million sauces before you throw me out. We have a black bean and a habanero at an everyday price, not a gourmet price. It gives you variety. And they started saying, yeah, that’s they’re delicious. That makes sense. We love your company and your marketing and your products. And this will give us variety. And they started putting it in and we were just you know making it up praying. And so after that, we did a 15:01.69Doug Renfrobut we A couple of years later, we did Chipotle, corn. we i We were early on Chipotle. Nobody could say it, including our own staff. I walked through the office. I’m here. Chipotle. Chipotle. 15:10.26vigorbrandingbut 15:10.84Doug RenfroI’m like, oh my god, we can’t pronounce our own product. ah Then when you when Chipotle, the chain became big, they taught everybody. And then Jack in the Box made a hilarious ad about how to power pronounce it. And so, yeah, I would look at things, you know, I saw a ghost pepper in a chocolate bar. I’d been watching it for a couple of years. When I saw it in a chocolate bar, and I told the family, I think we can put it in salsa. My uncle thought we were gonna get sued, so we put a crossbones skull on it, ex-scary hot. 15:33.05vigorbrandingHmm. 15:34.74Doug Renfroand The Today Show fell in love with it, gave us a solid minute on the Today Show back when we all watched TV and there were no streaming channels. ah Huge success. But at this point, now we’re mature. 15:45.35vigorbrandingYeah. 15:47.18Doug Renfroand frankly we’re busier than ever on rnd but it’s all for food service co-pack and private label clients with renfro what you’ll see is the big chains will want you to give them two items with a significant slotting and kick out your two slowest ones and i’m like no thank you but if you give us two if you’ll give us two more spots incrementally, we’ll take it, and that happens. But for now, when the when COVID hit, the supply chain fund and the inflation that followed that, frankly, we haven’t come up with a new item since Blackberry Serrano was our last one. 16:20.17vigorbrandingNice. 16:20.37Doug RenfroAnd we’ve kind of hunkered down. So you know maybe Pavone pomegranate is next. 16:25.34vigorbrandingThere you go. I love it. 16:26.20Doug RenfroI’m still thinking. 16:29.01vigorbrandingSo what what is the what is the mix between ah branded sales, I’ll say, and and food service ah percentages? 16:36.24Doug Renfroi And there’s there’s branded food service and then Copac Private Label. So it’s three, it’s a triad, which is really nice. It it really, you know, diversifies things for us. And we’re sort of 40, 45% Renfro and then you split the rest of it between food service and and other brands. Like I can take the national retailer usually and show you, you know, two to five other brands that we make and and not all salsas. 16:53.69vigorbrandingThat’s great. 16:59.57vigorbrandingMm 17:00.60Doug RenfroYou know, we we’re acidified foods, condiments, so we can do cheese in a jar, which God didn’t mean to happen. um barbecue sauce, relish, you know, sauces. 17:12.54vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. That’s very cool. um So I mean, the flavor thing, again, is brilliant. And I love all the different combinations and they are delicious. You know, through my career, you know, again, doing CPG for for basically, almost 30 years, I hate to say the agencies around for 33 years, but doing the CPG thing for good, I think 25 years. ah food, um the flavor thing was almost, it almost seems a shortcut because there’s a lot of expense involved in in flavors. But like I remember, okay, that as dumb as this sounds, potato chips. It’s like, you know, ah plain potato chips still sell great, but put flavors in there and we helped many ah snack food brands, currently hers, with a lot of their products and and just adding new flavors all the time. 17:43.66Doug RenfroWow. 17:52.57vigorbrandingJust the consumer loves it. It gets them excited. We even did it with tuna, which, I mean, adding flavor to tuna, ah you know, and it just, we blew sales out of the water. Now, again, the companies were the the R and&D behind it, but we were like all in for the, the you know, the Sriracha flavored and all the different types of ah tuna flavors. And, you know, for Starkus, and it blew them out and the sales went through the roof. 18:14.72Doug RenfroSo. 18:17.12vigorbrandingSo, I mean, the, I know R and&D and I know category extensions can be expensive, but I also think there’s a a sort of a hidden ah marketing excitement. ah It just you know it brings brings energy to the category. And again, when you see your products against across the shelf or those log those those labels across, it’s ah it’s a really impressive uh a lineup i mean how how you mean i do i obviously probably feel the same where you wouldn’t have so many but i mean yeah i’m sure you’re torn like do we want another skew do we not want another skew can you talk a little just a little bit about that 18:51.01Doug RenfroYeah, it’s challenging because everything in life, usually the 80-20 rule works and ours, you know, we have 28 current Renfro SKUs, the top four do have the sales, you know, the top seven or 70% of the sales. 19:01.36vigorbrandinghuh 19:03.24Doug RenfroSo you’re like, well, why don’t we just cut the rest of them because people want variety and the people who want those second tier items. It’s funny on our online platforms, those will be our best sellers because they’re so hard to get and the people don’t care what it costs. They just want it so badly. 19:16.56vigorbrandingRight. 19:17.79Doug Renfroand But and you know no matter what you do, I don’t care if you have another 10 fantastic skews, the top four or five are going to be half your sales. 19:24.24vigorbrandingThat’s right. 19:26.20Doug RenfroIf you go to a farmer’s market and they got like 30 kinds of jelly, you’ll inevitably find that two or three do most of the sales. But they they get attention. People come over there because they want to taste you know coconut marmalade, but they end up buying peach. you 19:40.92vigorbrandingRight, right, right, right. Well, I think I heard you say that the mango habanero is number two. What’s what’s number one? 19:47.21Doug Renfroof habanero, though the one I was told internally would never sell much because it was so hot, but it’d be cute to have. 19:53.27vigorbrandingWow. 19:53.65Doug Renfrothink It’s been number one for over 15 years and I can’t eat it. i Most of the things that are best sellers that I’ve created and when I create for Renfro, my cousins get votes in our sales director. If it’s non Renfro, the customer rules or I’ll make up something. but for rent bro i I first cook with Microsoft Excel because it we line price. It doesn’t matter how good it is if we lose money on it because I can’t charge more on just one item. So first I pre-cook it in Excel and if it’s going to work financially, then I i do what I think is good. and Then I bring in my cousins and a lot of like on the craft beer, we were about ready to take it to New York. 20:31.12Doug Renfrofor the big show and I was like, it’s just kind of bland. And then my cousin Becky was like, yeah, it’s, they need something. 20:36.20vigorbrandingMm hmm, mm hmm. 20:36.98Doug RenfroSo I threw in Guajillo, Ancho and Chipotle in small amounts. It’s kind of a mid range. And we’re like, she’s like, yeah, that’s better. And then James might think it needs to be chunkier who runs production and our sales director might have an opinion. And so it, you know, it is a village situation, but you’re right. Right now we’re like, oh, it gives me a headache to think about another skew. Cause how much could it sell? Your home runs are about one a decade. 21:00.63vigorbrandingyeah Yeah. So you you said something very interesting there. And again, being in a CPG world, I have experience with that whole line pricing thing. So if I can ask, like I’ll say it this way. We had a client we worked with for, oh boy, we built the brand. It was probably a good 18 years and it was Turkey Hill Ice Cream. And Turkey Hill, like most brands, had a line price. But there was an awful lot of a difference in cost to make vanilla ice cream versus, let’s say, ah like a rainforest crunch or anything with nuts and stuff. Because the expense of those nuts, and and people don’t realize that. 21:32.10Doug RenfroRight. 21:33.41vigorbrandingThey just think it’s, oh, it’s two for $5. Or, oh, the price went up. Or it’s 89 cents more. But they they don’t realize. that one flavor to another flavor could be a huge difference and in in the cost to make it. um do you run I mean, I have to imagine you run into that to a degree. And ah you know is that something you have to deal with? 21:52.47Doug Renfroand and Absolutely. I think we lost money on every jar of raspberry chipotle we sold last year. Fortunately, we didn’t sell many. but yeah Raspberry is an item that the price goes wildly up and down, fluctuates like crazy. and Most things don’t. they They go up slowly or they sit still. but Our craft beer salsa, we don’t make as much money on it, but it’s fabulous and tastes great. But yeah would I be thrilled if everybody just bought mild all day long? Absolutely. I could get a new car. 22:23.33vigorbrandingYeah, there you go. 22:23.47Doug Renfroi myself And that is that is exactly the challenging aspect. Blackberry Serrano, you know making that worthy of the name, I get really annoyed when I go to a restaurant. They got a tomatillo pecan, you know smoked watermelon sauce, and all I can taste is salt. I want i want everything on the label to be tastable, but you can’t afford always to do that as much as you’d like without losing money. 22:39.89vigorbrandingRight. Right. Right. Yeah. That’s ah well yeah that’s ah that’s the the the the difficult part of, I’ll say, what you guys do. And that’s that’s putting product ah quality product in ah in a container. Whatever your your product is. It could be ice cream, salsa. It could be potato chips. It can be candy. it’s just the the The flavoring, you can do it. But there’s always these these cost constraints, that line pricing thing. and And then there’s the evil empires of the retailers, right? so 23:12.03Doug RenfroIt’s a delicate dance. 23:12.91vigorbrandingbut its It is a delicate dance and I don’t i don’t envy you. so But hey, you sent us a bunch of salsa, so like we’ve had a lot of parties at Proven Group, and ah but we’re gonna have our first salsa party coming up, so we’re pretty excited about that. um But as we know, um you you have recipes throughout the thing, so ah your salsas aren’t just for tortilla chips. 23:29.66Doug Renfrothe 23:33.46vigorbrandingYou have tons of recipes on your website that you salsa. 23:33.90Doug Renfroright 23:37.31vigorbrandingum So we’ll have some fun. 23:37.41Doug Renfroye 23:38.43vigorbrandingI’m gonna i’m gonna name a few recipes from your site that use salsa. And you can tell me if you’ve tried it and what you thought of it. Ready to roll? 23:46.76Doug RenfroReady. 23:47.46vigorbrandingAll right, we have the Molten Chili Chocolate Brownie with raspberry chipotle salsa. 23:54.46Doug RenfroThat came out of a wine pairing dinner. I thought it was and a winery owner and we’re a charity event and I thought she was inebriated and they She would sober up later. No, she flew us out there and had her chef and they had like 80 people bought tickets and they paired a Renfro item with every course. And for dessert, they they used the raspberry chipotle. I think they blended it with maybe raspberries and sugar also. But ah on chocolate, that did pair nicely. 24:19.34vigorbrandingYeah, ah that’s interesting. 24:19.62Doug Renfroyeah 24:21.07vigorbrandingand But that was your most expensive vitamin, so maybe you don’t want to sell too many of those brownies, right? 24:24.76Doug Renfroah please Yeah, please don’t buy too much of it. 24:29.31vigorbrandingAlright, meatloaf with craft beer salsa. 24:33.21Doug RenfroI have not had that. I have had it with the roasted salsa, which has a really strong mesquite aspect to it. 24:39.53vigorbrandingNice. ah Grilled, and this is also a delicious ah one of your products, but grilled peach salsa chicken with a pe with ah with a peach salsa. 24:48.11Doug Renfroyeah Back in the day when we still had to demo at the booth, that was our go-to. 24:51.39vigorbrandingUh-huh. 24:52.21Doug RenfroAnd and it’s funny, people think they’re cooking. If you say, put a jar of peach salsa in a baggie, throw in the chicken breast, put it in the fridge for an hour or two, then grill it. They think they’re like a gourmet chef. um And it tastes delicious. 25:03.30vigorbrandingYep. 25:04.91Doug RenfroYou can reserve some. ah It’ll caramelize on the grill, and then you can reserve like a third of it and pour it over just as you serve it. 25:07.79vigorbrandingMm 25:10.15Doug RenfroAnd that is delicious and crazy simple. 25:10.85vigorbranding-hmm. Yeah, that’s great. I mean, a very good friend of mine owns a company called Gazebo salad dressing, and he sells way more salad dressing as a marinade than he does as a salad dressing. And it’s really, truly a salad dressing, but people find figured out that you know marinating in this in these products, and I’m sure your products are are phenomenal for that. 25:32.84Doug RenfroAnd I love any recipe that’s take a whole jar and use it. 25:35.06vigorbrandingRight. That’s right. That’s right. 25:36.98Doug RenfroNo tablespoon recipes. 25:38.73vigorbrandingYeah. 25:38.89Doug Renfroyeah 25:39.37vigorbrandingYeah. He he realized that early on. It’s like, well, you know, the more, especially guys, right? Guys are grilling. So what do they do? They dump the whole jar to your point, you know, we’re not, we’re not going to spare anything. 25:45.50Doug RenfroAbsolutely. sister yeah 25:47.93vigorbrandingSo that’s, that’s the perfect consumer right there. 25:48.64Doug Renfroyeah 25:50.55vigorbrandingAll right. spag Spicy spaghetti sauce with medium salsa. 25:54.72Doug RenfroI don’t recall having that. I think we i think my cousin Becky pre-cooked everything before we would let it be on a label back and when we started doing this. I i probably sampled it, but she’s our ah she she cooks as my wife does too. ah gee They’re both excellent cooks and will actually whip these things up. I’m gluten-free too, but my wife can find gluten-free pasta to put that on. 26:16.82vigorbrandingThere you go. 26:16.93Doug RenfroI’ll tell her Michael said we had to taste it. 26:18.85vigorbrandingThere you go. That’s it. That’s it. So the last one is Mexican fudge with green jalapeno salsa. This one isn’t a chocolate fudge, it’s more of a cheese. 26:27.63Doug Renfroyeah When I came back 32 years ago, that was the only recipe we had, and it’s still the most popular. My aunt came up with that, interestingly. and it’s It’s cheddar cheese, eggs, and green salsa, and you just add more green salsa if you want it spicier, and you you put it in a pan, you throw it in the oven for 40 minutes, you go get ready for the party, whatever, take it out, slice it up, put it on triskets or whatever, and people love it. It’s gone, especially when it’s warm, and you serve it that way. ah We call it cowboy cobbler. I mean, there’s a million things, but it’s just three ingredients. like Even I can’t screw it up. 27:01.20vigorbrandingNow you said that that when you do R and&D, it’s your cousins get involved, but you also said like the the really hot, you can’t eat. Like that’s for, is that your palette? Is it just, you don’t really like super spicy or how does that work? 27:10.80Doug RenfroIt hurts. 27:14.06Doug RenfroMy assistant, it’s ah my R and&D guru that I’ve got working with me now the last few years. He’ll make me occasionally do a cutting of like ghost pepper case. So in the morning, I’m like, really? That’s my breakfast. And with ghost pepper, habanero, Carolina Reaper, I can taste two or three, four samples. And I’m done for a few hours because then I’m torched and I can’t distinguish anything different. 27:33.60vigorbrandingRight. 27:37.32Doug RenfroFortunately, I don’t have to very often when we’re coming up with something. um You know, I created a ah special ah triple hot reaper for a business group you and I are in and I tasted that till I couldn’t see my feet and then we said, okay, it must be fine. 27:53.90vigorbrandingWell, that’s fantastic. So tell me, before we wrap up, like what’s next for Renfro Foods? i mean Can you share any details about what you’re cooking up for the future? Anything you’re excited about? Anything that’s going on in the company or in the family? 28:07.24Doug RenfroYeah, that’s always a frustrating thing about doing so much private label and co-pack and food services. I can’t talk about most of it, but it’s really cool. We’re we’re doing things for people like ah the dairy-free queso, you know, that’s nut-based, the things that my 87-year-old father is like, what? 28:22.27vigorbrandingme 28:26.19Doug RenfroThat’s what my grandparents wouldn’t have known. ah We do ethnic sauces. We were always reinvesting in the plant. my My dad, my late uncle, my grandparents taught us don’t ever milk the company. So we doubled our shipping warehouse two years ago. We added a brand new two story production employee break room with QA and production offices above it. We automated some more things on the food service line. We’re always reinvesting. We’re always looking, you know, for the future we’re doing licensing agreements with other brands where we handle the marketing for them and you’ll see if yeah you’re gonna be in the new york show i think you’ll see another brand in our booth that i can talk about then. 28:55.96vigorbrandingAwesome. 28:59.33vigorbrandingYep. 29:04.36vigorbrandingSuper. That’s awesome. I mean, congratulations on all the success. and I mean, you’re, you’re a great president. You’re always very self-deprecating. Absolutely hilarious. Lots of fun. And I think that just, it sort of just, you represent the brand in my mind and in a lot, in all the positive ways, you know, and I would love to see you put a wig on and and try and emulate your camera. That would be, ah that would be fantastic. 29:23.97Doug Renfromaybe yeah yeah 29:25.99vigorbrandingThat’s how you should work the booth. You should be Mrs. Renfro. So, 29:28.46Doug Renfrolike 29:29.43vigorbrandingAll right, so I have one last question I asked this from every guest and it can’t be your product if you had one final meal What would you eat? Maybe where and why? 29:40.36Doug RenfroWell, I forgot the can’t do your problems. You gotta start with chips and salsa. And frankly, I do eat lots of people’s salsa. It’s it’s experimentation, but also, you know, I always ask people, you think the donut shop guy eats a donut every day? You know, you want to change it up. ah for lunch ah For the entree, I think I’d have chicken tikka masala. My wife and I have become big fans of of Indian food and eating it around the world. I would say one of the places in London, I think it’s Rick Road that has all their Indian restaurants. 30:05.10vigorbrandingNice. 30:06.18Doug RenfroAnd then Grand Marnier Soufflé for dessert. It’s one of those things that’s too hard to make at home, but most so hard that it’s hard to find it. There’s a French restaurant locally. I can get it like occasionally and that, now those don’t go together, but you said final meal, so it doesn’t matter. 30:20.00vigorbrandingThat’s it. Final meal. Yeah, that’s what you got to do. That’s fantastic. 30:23.12Doug Renfroah 30:23.48vigorbrandingWell, Doug, thank you very much. 30:24.20Doug Renfroyeah 30:25.29vigorbrandingI look forward to, I know you’re doing ah an event in in in Fort Worth ah for all of us. um That’ll be fantastic. And I will see you at Fancy Food. 30:34.95Doug RenfroSee you there. Thanks again for letting me play. 30:36.83vigorbrandingAll right, pal. Appreciate it. 

Burney Jennings is the CEO and president of Biscuitville. Burney took over the leadership reins from his father and founder of Biscuitville Maurice Jennings in 1996. Burney’s bold leadership, vision and keen sense of knowing what customers want has contributed to the company’s growth and success. Headquartered in Greensboro, North Carolina, Biscuitville Fresh Southern is a family-owned company serving authentic Southern food made fresh daily from locally sourced ingredients. Known as the Home of the Biscuit Window Since 1966, Biscuitville serves scratch-made biscuits baked fresh every 15 minutes. Biscuitville employs over 2,400 people and operates more than 70 restaurants in North Carolina, Virginia and South Carolina. In July 2023, Biscuitville was voted the nation’s Best Fast Food Breakfast & Best Regional Fast Food restaurant in the 2023 USA Today Readers’ Choice 10Best contest. Burney’s father inherited his mother’s famous biscuit recipe after his ailing mother gave him a choice of his inheritance – the recipe or the farm. Burney’s father chose the recipe and the rest is history. Biscuitville has stood out from the competition for not working with food delivery services like Uber Eats and GrubHub. According to Burney, the decision was based on several factors including the inability to accommodate to-go orders because the restaurant is so busy. Biscuitville has made headlines with its “Life After 2” program in which each of its locations close at 2pm each day. The program allows employees to pursue other interests and spend more time with their families.  QUOTES “(My grandmother) gave my dad – since he was the oldest – the choice: My biscuit recipe or the farm. He chose the biscuit recipe.” (Burney)“The key to a good biscuit is love.” (Burney)“Growing up, my dad was fascinated by chain restaurants. My dad told me, ‘We all know how to make a McDonald’s hamburger. We know the ingredients. It’s not about the burger, it’s how they do it. It’s the system they put in place. It’s the marketing, it’s the brand, it’s the people, it’s the execution.’” (Burney)“We started closing at 2pm. Our food quality went up, our food costs went down and our employees are much happier. Now of course, you need to be a morning person. If you’re not a morning person, we’re not a good place for you.” (Burney) “We really strive to work with local companies first, and if we can’t be local, we work with family businesses.” (Burney) “We’ve been able to differentiate ourselves in the breakfast space because we close at 2pm. People know breakfast is our focus.” (Burney)  TRANSCRIPT 00:00.01Burney JenningsI can, this is not too close. 00:04.65vigorbrandingNo, ye you’re perfect. 00:05.35Burney JenningsNo video? Okay. 00:06.54vigorbrandingYep. Okay. You ready to roll? 00:08.75Burney JenningsNow I’m ready to roll. 00:10.09vigorbrandingAll right. Welcome, Fork Tales fans. The best biscuits in the world are made in the South, of course. And the best place to buy those biscuits is a restaurant called Biscuitville. Today’s guest is the chairman of bisop but Biscuitville, Bernie Jennings, and we’re going to talk about biscuits, family, and a whole lot more. Bernie, thank you so much for joining us. Welcome, and we’re looking forward to hearing your story. 00:35.38Burney JenningsThank you, Michael. I appreciate you inviting me to your podcast. 00:39.08vigorbrandingVery cool. So, okay. We’ll start sort of in the beginning here. Your father founded Biscuitville in 1966 and you were raised to eventually take over the reins, which you did in 1996. You often joke that your birth date and your higher date are the same date. ah Talk about that a little bit. Talk about the start and how you got into the business and how you were raised basically in the business. 01:03.01Burney JenningsSure, so I feel like I was born into the business watching my dad as an entrepreneur, um you know, try different things in the restaurant business. He started out with, you know, really a bread store um and he was selling day-old bread and um through his travels and he was also selling flour as not flowers as in roses but flour um by the train carload um and he saw pizza and he thought that was a pretty neat concept so he started a concept called pizza to go 01:28.83vigorbrandingWow. 01:35.86Burney JenningsI eventually added biscuits in the morning because it was of as in a slow day part to no day part. And to make a long story short, change the name to Pizzaville. The biscuits were doing really well. I said, but let me just see if I can make a go at a biscuit concept without the pizza. and opened up one in downtown Danville, Virginia called it Biscuitville and the story goes on from there. Eventually converted all the pizzavills over to Biscuitvilles and we’ve been growing ever since. But to answer your question, watching my dad go through that and I remember yeah he used to do his own training videos and 02:15.96Burney Jenningsyeah middle of the night, yeah know I fell asleep at about 1130 and he woke me up at 630 in the morning when they were doing the videos and I just feel like I grew grew up in the business. um But you know how did I get into the business? 02:27.33vigorbrandingThat. 02:31.64Burney Jenningsum I call myself a late bloomer. I didn’t know what I wanted to do when I was growing up. I didn’t know if I wanted to be in the restaurant business, in the real estate business, oh just didn’t know. So when I got out of college, I started working for my dad doing odds and end jobs and eventually worked my way into a restaurant we called, what we had called the cutting board, which was a steakhouse in Burlington. um From that started managing a Pizzaville restaurant. And you know from that went over to the Biscuitville side and really worked every department in the company. 03:08.55Burney Jenningsum I didn’t run all the departments, but I got an exposure to that. And around 1996, my dad made me president of the company. But it wasn’t like I set out to the be in it. 03:17.62vigorbrandingWow. 03:22.29Burney JenningsBut once I started getting a taste of it, I loved it. 03:25.85vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. So like I have a rule like for my daughters, ah not that they’re interested whatsoever in what I’m doing ever, but if they want to get into the business, my my rule was you have to work somewhere for two years and get one promotion. Did you guys have anything like that? 03:40.12Burney JenningsRight. 03:41.12vigorbrandingOr is there any kind of rules that you set up that way or anything you know to that to that thing? Or is it just a coincidence? It just happened happened to work out. 03:48.73Burney JenningsIt just happened to work out for me. However, I also learned that rule. having you know I have four kids. One of them does work in the company, my oldest son, Blake, and he had to do the same thing. He worked about five or six years outside of our business before he joined us. And his skillset is real estate development, did that in Washington, DC in Raleigh. But I think that’s really important, joining a family business to have that outside experience before joining. 04:12.40vigorbrandingMmhmm. 04:18.74Burney JenningsAnd I’m sure I would have benefited from it. 04:19.01vigorbrandingAmen. Yeah, well, and you know, look, we I talked to a lot of folks that are part of family businesses and, you know, it’s it’s awesome, right? yeah And there’s there’s nothing more important than family, right? 04:29.60Burney JenningsYeah. 04:30.37vigorbrandingand but But family owned businesses, I mean, it can be it can be a difficult run. I mean, you know, there’s we we, you and I certainly know of a lot of of of of family businesses where there’s turmoil and problems. So ah to navigate that, I think it’s good to have those rules set up out front and And you gotta abide by them, right? I mean, it’s ah it’s an important thing. 04:49.95Burney JenningsYeah. 04:51.07vigorbrandingSo now, is your son, is he going to be, I mean, what is his role right now? 04:56.05Burney JenningsHe does a real estate development work, yeah repair which would include the construction repairs and maintenance site selection. 04:57.93vigorbrandingOkay. 05:03.21vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 05:03.88Burney JenningsI mean, that’s that’s his job. 05:07.45vigorbrandingYeah, which is not nothing, because you have how many locations? Like 50 plus, right? 05:10.79Burney JenningsYeah, we’re about 79 locations a day with four under construction. 05:13.16vigorbrandingWow. Okay. Wow. Jeez. 05:16.06Burney JenningsYeah. 05:16.19vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. So yeah I want to take it back to the beginning because I love, I always say there’s always these great stories, right? So I love this story. Your ailing grandmother called her grandsons to her bedside, which had been your father, asked them to choose their inheritance. 05:28.11Burney JenningsRight? 05:31.03vigorbrandingSo you want to tell that story? 05:33.05Burney JenningsYeah, so he she gave my dad since he was the oldest on the choice between the biscuit recipe or the farm and he chose the biscuit recipe and my brother might hit my uncle which was his brother got the farm. 05:49.20vigorbrandingSo how did the farm work out? I mean, is was he happy with that trade? 05:51.52Burney JenningsYou know, I say my dad, and and I think it’s just a great story. Interestingly enough, um my uncle used to ask me, where’s the farm? He was he he still was looking for the farm. um it’s eastern east and My grandparents lived in eastern Tennessee, in a great area. 06:09.33vigorbrandingOkay. 06:11.84Burney JenningsIn fact, there’s a Jennings Cemetery there, lots of Jennings there. 06:14.51vigorbrandingWow. 06:17.11vigorbrandingWow. So, so the farm does exist. 06:17.94Burney JenningsYeah. 06:19.03vigorbrandingYour uncle got the farm. Did he ever, was your uncle ever a part of the business? 06:20.61Burney JenningsYeah. Um, so when we look at the business side, I mentioned early on that my dad was a flower salesman. 06:28.81vigorbrandingYep. 06:28.91Burney JenningsUm, that was with, that was something that his dad or my grandfather, this is my grandfather had. And that’s a business. My uncle, who was a younger brother took over when my dad got into restaurant business. 06:40.71vigorbrandingGotcha. 06:42.31Burney JenningsMy uncle did the flower business. 06:45.72vigorbrandingThat’s funny. 06:46.46Burney JenningsYeah. 06:46.48vigorbrandingDoes a farm in Tennessee still exist? 06:49.04Burney JenningsNo, I mean, that yeah, it exists, but it’s not family owned anymore. 06:50.00vigorbrandingOkay. 06:52.36vigorbrandingNot in a family. That’s funny. 06:53.42Burney JenningsYeah. Yeah. 06:55.24vigorbrandingSo I guess without giving away the secret recipe, the thing that that your father chose, what’s what’s the key to a good biscuit? 06:55.37Burney JenningsYeah. 07:03.02Burney JenningsYeah, so my dad was very, very practical. And I’ll answer the question, the key to the good bisits the key to a good biscuit is love. And what I mean by that is growing up, my um yeah my dad was fascinated with chain restaurants. And he he told me, look, we all know how to make a McDonald’s hamburger. We know the ingredients. It’s not about the McDonald’s hamburger. It’s how they do it. It’s the system they put in place. It’s the marketing. It’s the brand. It’s the it’s a people. It’s the execution. He said, so yeah when when we look at making a good biscuit, 07:44.93Burney JenningsIt’s pretty simple ingredients. It’s self-rising flour, shortening, and buttermilk. 07:50.23vigorbrandingMm hmm. 07:50.31Burney JenningsIt’s what do you do with it? How do you market it? How are, you know, it’s a friendliness. How do you make the people who are buying it feel special? So I call it love. It’s that’s how you make a good biscuit. 07:59.82vigorbrandingYep. 08:02.26vigorbrandingYeah. Well, you know, bra I’ve known you for a long time and you’re very engaging and you can it’s amazing because it’s I can tell you care. and And you know, people might be listening saying, okay, right, you make it with love. 08:10.06Burney JenningsYeah. 08:12.71vigorbrandingBut like family, not just your family, your company, you see your company as a family. And I think that whole, that passion and that caring for people really, really comes through. 08:17.61Burney JenningsRight. 08:22.62vigorbrandingAnd I think I commend you for that. And ah I mean, I just think that’s an ah it’s an amazing attribute to you and your company. 08:29.06Burney JenningsWell, thank you. 08:30.68vigorbrandingSo Biscuitville has made some great headlines in recent years for going against industry trends. And I’m i’m always impressed by things like this. It’s hard to stand by, I’ll say, you’re your your beliefs, if you will, and you know i mean from just being open for breakfast ah you know to to you know all the other things that you that you do and that you keep sacred, I guess. um So the one of the huge trends, obviously, especially since COVID was ah third party delivery services like Uber Eats, DoorDash, and Grubhub. um you You are not working with them, is that correct? 09:05.54Burney JenningsThat is correct. Yeah, I can expand. 09:07.88vigorbrandingwhat And the thinking there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 09:09.57Burney JenningsYeah, 09:10.23vigorbrandingi’d like to yeah I want to hear a little bit about thinking there because i’ I’m intrigued. 09:14.03Burney Jenningsyeah so it’s it’s several things. One, um we have worked on our packaging so our food can travel well. um An example in in in the restaurant business is french fries. How do you keep a french fry hot and fresh for 20 minutes while it’s going from your restaurant to to be delivered? 09:30.01vigorbrandingMm hmm. 09:35.33Burney JenningsSo our biscuits are best eaten fresh. um When we look at our business, we’re opened basically eight and a half hours a day, 5.30 to 2 in the afternoon. And we do a lot of business in a short period of timeframe and getting to go order like an Uber Eats order on a 930 on a Saturday done workforce because we’re having trouble. you know, taking care of those guests that are in front of us. um yeah Chipotle, I think, has done a really good job in their restaurants of making a second makeup line just for to-go orders so that it doesn’t mess up their dining. 10:15.27Burney JenningsWith us, we we we have the dining room and we have the drive-through. Drive-throughs went from pre-COVID around 63% of sales to now 75% of sales. 10:26.94vigorbrandingWow. 10:27.69Burney JenningsIt does seem to be coming off a little bit, but it’s holding holding in that number. um So we’re doing a tremendous amount of business in a short period of time and it’s part of a capacity issue of how do you fit those orders in. So it’s on our radar. 10:42.93vigorbrandingMmhmm. 10:45.08Burney JenningsI think we’ll end up solving the packaging and solving some of the back of house stuff but for right now it’s not it’s not top of mind for us. 10:53.42vigorbrandingWell, and again, you know, going back to to like what I was saying earlier about you and the way you, ah your personality, everything, you know, you say you make these biscuits with love. Well, you’re not, you you refuse to sell them ah through a delivery service because it’s not about the delivery service, per se, it’s more about like the quality of the product that they’re going to get at the end of the day. And at the end of the day, that’s your brand, right? I mean, your Biscuitville and, you know, you don’t want to have, a you you don’t want to to have um anything happen to that product that diminishes the the experience, the consumer experience. 11:13.52Burney JenningsYeah. 11:20.02Burney JenningsRight. 11:23.16Burney Jenningsand I agree. And I like those delivery services. I use them my so my myself. 11:26.72vigorbrandingYep. 11:28.08Burney JenningsIt is definitely not about the delivery service. They’re doing a great job in providing ah a good service. 11:33.84vigorbrandingYep. The other thing, and i’m I’m curious about this too, because again, I commend you for it. So I’m not, well, by no means am I questioning it, but 5.30 a.m. ah to closing at two, I mean, you know, again, most most restaurants out there be like, okay, well, that’s great for them. 11:41.49Burney JenningsYeah. 11:47.45vigorbrandingWhat are we gonna do for the the you know lunch? You know, we’re gonna make this, we’re gonna make that. What about dinner? We’re gonna make this, we’re gonna make that. I mean, everyone would try and open up as many day parts as he absolutely humanly could. And look at some of the different QSRs, like I’ll say, like McDonald’s. I mean, they’re they’re in the basic dessert business, they’re in the coffee business, they’re in the whatever the next trend du jour is. 12:05.27Burney JenningsRight. 12:08.55vigorbrandinghow How hard was it for you to stay sort of, ah for lack of a word, true to yourself and just do this this morning, 5.30 a.m. to closing it to? 12:17.24Burney JenningsYeah, so we started out open till eight o’clock at night. We had bone-on chicken. 12:20.36vigorbrandingOkay. 12:21.92Burney Jenningsum We added vegetables. and We had a lot of different products. And to make a long story short, from about one o’clock in the afternoon till 5.30, it was pretty much dead. 12:33.71vigorbrandingMm hmm. 12:33.98Burney JenningsAnd when you’re in the quick service business, people want a great product that’s fresh. And you can imagine how it’s difficult it is to do that when you really don’t have much business between one and 530. 12:41.66vigorbrandingYep. 12:49.41Burney JenningsAnd this was before snacking, you know, the snacking concept and the coffee concepts and people, you know, going to a restaurant um in mid afternoon really existed. 12:53.51vigorbrandingMm hmm. 13:00.21Burney JenningsSo we dropped that day part, started closing it too. um Our food quality went up, our food costs went down, and our employees were much happier. 13:11.53vigorbrandingMm 13:11.84Burney JenningsSo now we call it when we’re hiring, it’s called life after two. So we use that as a selling point to hire people. Now of course you need to be a morning person. If you’re not a morning person, We’re not a good place. We’re not a good place for you. um You definitely need to be a morning person. um So that means I’d say the majority of our management team is geared towards closing it to being at home with their family, having worked out if they do have a family who’s going to take care of those kids in the morning so they can be there in the afternoon. 13:37.79vigorbrandinghmm. 13:46.54Burney JenningsIt’s a big decision staying open later and how many people are you going to lose because that’s not what they signed up for. 13:46.59vigorbrandingYeah. 13:53.07vigorbrandingThat’s right. And that’s very smart of you to look around the corner because let’s face it. I mean, I love that that life after two. I think that’s super smart. I mean, and again, I say this because knowing you for a while, I could tell that like company culture, you treat everything like family and that whole life after two plays right into that. 14:06.26Burney JenningsYeah. 14:08.75vigorbrandingSo it’s not a It’s not another gimmick or it’s not a, well, we you know we got we got to worry about our employees. It’s something you’ve always done. 14:14.95Burney JenningsYeah. 14:15.45vigorbrandingand and Candidly, I think that’s reflected in the quality of the product. you say you The biscuits are made with love. I think that’s what you know people sign up for this life after two and they’re they’re’re they’re dedicated to you and your brand and the family. i think that’s ah I think that’s very commendable and something I think people try to build or create later, but you’ve always sort of had that incorporated, haven’t you? 14:36.98Burney JenningsRight. 14:38.19vigorbrandingSo, okay, three quarters of your sales come from drive-through customers. That’s in line with most of the fast food industry, which is around 70. 14:41.54Burney JenningsYes. 14:45.17vigorbrandingLast year you opened your first drive-through only location. Do you see a lot of potential for more drive-throughs? Is that like maybe the future? ah Or is it still in the test and learn phase? 14:56.76Burney JenningsYes, in the test and learn phase, um we opened up eight restaurants last year. All of them had a dining room, except for that one. That is a test location. And then the next eight, we were planning on the the dining room. We found the dining room does add to our return on investment. And we got 25% of our guests coming in into the dining room. Now, about 10% of them are taking it to go, but another 15 are staying in the dining room. So we see it as something here to say, here to stay. 15:24.63vigorbrandingMm hmm. 15:27.23vigorbrandingOkay. Good. Good. So what do you think? What’s the best thing on your menu? Other than the biscuit? I think that’d be the obvious answer. 15:33.01Burney Jenningsah my my favorite is so My favorite is sausage, egg, and cheese with sc with scrambled egg. 15:34.25vigorbrandingWhat do you think? 15:37.33vigorbrandingOh, there you go. ah Perfect. 15:39.76Burney JenningsYou know, our our sausage is made by Swaggerty. It’s a third, and I think getting ready to go on a fourth generation family business out of Servirville, Tennessee, which is right by Dollywood. 15:46.88vigorbrandingWow. 15:50.29vigorbrandingUh huh. 15:50.62Burney Jenningsum And, you know, I didn’t mention it early on, but we really strive to go with local companies first. And if we can’t be local, We want them to be family business doesn’t always work out that way, but you know a fourth generation family business for our sausage, a third or fourth generation for baking bacon coming out of um Ohio. um yeah Our helm is made locally you know in Wiltsboro. Um, yeah, it’s that, that local or family is really important. 16:21.46Burney JenningsOh, and we decided community coffee about three years ago and they’re in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. 16:25.31vigorbrandingVery cool. Yep. 16:28.26Burney JenningsGreat, great family business. 16:30.10vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Very cool. 16:31.05Burney JenningsYeah. 16:31.56vigorbrandingWell, you know, it’s like, you you know, some of the things are like the shift to drive-throughs and then, you know, take out. 16:38.39Burney JenningsYeah. 16:38.47vigorbrandingAnd, you know, I mean, that, that happened. COVID really, you know, moved a lot of that along fast. You know, like we see things like Pizza Hut’s practically eliminating dine in, but it really feels like the Biscuitville brand and just sort of the way you feel about family and the folks. It feels like the dine-in is here to stay as far as Biscuitville, right? i mean that’s like It feels like that’s a it’s a really integral part of your brand and and your your brand promise and the the love, the fresh and all that kind of thing. 16:58.74Burney JenningsYeah. 17:05.66Burney JenningsNo, it is. Yeah. Have no, no, no plans on changing it. And even it you when we look at this drive through only um test, that’s a concept that we would put on a smaller site where we couldn’t fit a restaurant with a dining room, but we want, we definitely wanted to be in that market. 17:27.96vigorbrandingYeah, that makes total sense. 17:28.74Burney JenningsSo we we to to us, that’s an add-on, not a replacement. 17:29.00vigorbrandingand Yeah, absolutely. 17:32.16Burney Jenningsbut Yes. 17:33.48vigorbrandingSo you’ve got more than 70 locations, as you mentioned, in the Carolinas and Virginia, which is ah a lot of restaurants in a, I’ll say not a small area, but a tight, tight, tight footprint. 17:41.34Burney JenningsRight. 17:43.47vigorbrandingAll of your locations are company owned, no franchisees. ah That gives you a lot of control of the brand, the product. and But does does that does that limit growth for you as well? And talk about the the idea of not franchising versus franchising and the benefits. 17:57.73Burney JenningsSure, let’s go with the first one, the growth. ah We just moved into South Carolina two years ago and that’s a big part of our growth. 18:04.29vigorbrandingNice. 18:07.28Burney Jenningsum are Three years ago, all of our restaurants were within the two-hour drive of Greensboro, North Carolina, which is our headquarters. Now we’re in about a three and a half hour drive. So we just opened up in Columbia, South Carolina, in Florence, in Harpsville, and one in Neuber, North Carolina. um The growth rate is limited. I mean, the being company owned limits your growth rate. 18:31.08vigorbrandingMhm. 18:31.28Burney JenningsWe don’t have an unlimited supply of cash and equity to grow. So you can only grow as fast as the money that you’re borrow able to borrow or the money you’re able to put into it. 18:36.86vigorbrandingRight. 18:44.16vigorbrandingRight. 18:44.52Burney Jenningsum You could certainly grow faster having private equity come in and buy a big stake, but just not interested in going down that path. 18:48.70vigorbrandingMhm. 18:53.37Burney Jenningsanother growth Another way to grow faster is the franchising model, something I have zero experience with. We may do that one day, but right now um where we want to own it and control it, and you mentioned it earlier, we feel like it gives us a lot more control over um the operations piece. 19:16.52vigorbrandingI think it does and I think that, and um look, we have a lot of brands that are franchised and it’s great and they’re smart business models, but but just again, going back to like how you feel about it. And you know, you said your biscuits, I love it. In the be beginning, they’re made with love. Well, there has to be an extreme amount of control there. So you’re not willing to just ship them out and into through a delivery service for quality sake. 19:35.75Burney Jenningsright 19:40.16vigorbrandingYou’re not willing to just sell your your your brand to other people and put it in their hands you know with the fear that maybe it won’t be up to the to your standards. I think there’s a whole lot of ah things that you’re doing or you’re choosing not to do that are actually making you successful. I think that’s really commendable. 19:55.96Burney Jenningsyeah but Thank you. 19:55.98vigorbrandingI think it’s very difficult to do because you know business is business, right? And like you know it’s about it’s about revenue and growth and all that. So I commend you for kind of sticking to your guns, if you will, and and doing things the way you do it. um So yeah last year Biscuit Fills voted best fast food breakfast in the u and in a USA Today readers poll. that’s That’s huge and congratulations on that. 20:16.39Burney Jenningsright Thank you. 20:17.83vigorbrandingSo we’re seeing a lot of the fast food breakfast wars and and they’ve been raging for a long time. Everyone’s kind of getting into it ah and the that’s a huge win for you. do you what What do you attribute that to that win? So you’re up against all this competition. You guys are voted number one. 20:32.80Burney JenningsYeah, for us, um in fact, every now and then I’m talking to somebody and they get us confused with Chick-fil-A. And by the way, we’re not Chick-fil-A. It’s a different concept, but they go they think we’re closing on Sundays. 20:46.25vigorbrandingMm hmm. 20:46.27Burney Jenningsit’s yeah we are we’ve put us We have worked hard to put us into a premium QSR category. 20:54.35vigorbrandingMm hmm. 20:55.03Burney JenningsSo when we look at how we compare ourselves, certainly we’re comparing, um we do competitionensation competition shopping with Chick-fil-A, Bojangles, McDonald’s, and Hardee’s. 21:07.89vigorbrandingMm hmm. 21:07.96Burney JenningsAnd those are really the core ones in our market. But when we look at our pricing and the quality of the ingredients we’re using, We want to make sure we’re using better ingredients than they are. Now, granted, an egg is an egg is an egg. you can’t yeah You can’t do anything different there, but you can do something different with your bacon, with your sausage, with the, you know, using a center cut ham. um yeah the The chicken, like our chicken, is the Springer Mountain Farms label, which is what you see in high-end restaurants. 21:36.08vigorbrandingMm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 21:42.29Burney JenningsIt costs us more money, but that’s important to us because we think it’s a better product. And when you yeah when you have what we think, really which we know is a better product, you gotta charge a premium price for that. So when we look at our pricing, it’s not gonna be the same. You put our pricing up against any of the people we competition shop with, I tell our folks, it better be higher. It better be more expensive because we’re spending more money than they are putting that product in front of the guests. 22:04.64vigorbrandingRight. 22:10.85vigorbrandingAbsolutely. so we’re like ah There’s obviously a consistent thread here as far as quality. ah Working with family-owned businesses. 22:18.86Burney JenningsYes. 22:19.09vigorbrandingah you know i’ll say so I’ll say smaller types of companies. how Where did that come from? i mean like Is that all you? i mean Was that something instilled by your father? Where did that sort of dedication to, I’ll say family, quality of life for your employees, and and and and clean ingredients and and and and the like, where did that all come from? 22:39.35Burney JenningsYeah, I’ll give a, it’s a two-part answer. One, on the you know ingredient side, we did some research about 10 years ago, and it was internal and external. And it what we found, and it was just by chance, being a smaller chain and local chain, We had, by chance, been dealing with family-owned businesses and local businesses, and many of our customers knew that, but we didn’t play on it. ah like We didn’t point it out, and we said, wait a minute. 23:16.79Burney JenningsThis is something if our customers know about it and care about it, there’s probably some who don’t know about it but do care about it. So we we made that part of our strategy on a go-forward basis to really focus on local businesses first and family owned businesses second. And then the second um is is the how we treat our people. I think that’s what you were asking in how we operate in our business. 23:42.88vigorbrandingMm hmm. 23:47.78Burney JenningsPart of that is being a family businesses. I truly believe family businesses approach business and how they treat people different than public companies and different than private equity. So in part of it was my upbringing from my parents on how you treat people and treating people with respect and treating people how you want to be treated. So my team kind of knows this if there’s ever a dilemma when it comes to the people. but be yeah so How do you, if this was you how do you, how would you like to see the answer? 24:19.95vigorbrandingright 24:20.20Burney JenningsAnd sometimes it’s financially, I mean, it hurts us financially, but it I think we benefit in the long run. So, you know, I try not to be penny wise and pound foolish in making those financial decisions. 24:31.67vigorbrandingyeah 24:34.34vigorbrandingI have a strong constitution when it comes to that. I think I really commend you on it. 24:37.00Burney JenningsYeah. 24:37.76vigorbrandingI think that’s wonderful. um You know, so you’re also voted best regional fast food chain. ah There’s a lot of Southern fast food chains that wanted to win that. 24:46.13Burney JenningsYes. 24:47.59vigorbrandingCan you talk a little bit about that? Who the competition might have been and you know, why, why, why do you think that you you guys were picked? 24:54.29Burney Jenningsum you know There were several big operators who the competition might have been, um and I think they’re really good operators, and I’ve already you know i’ve already mentioned them. 25:02.52vigorbrandingMm hmm. 25:07.43Burney Jenningsum They got some great franchisees, McDonald’s, Bojangles, Hardee’s, Chick-fil-A. 25:07.67vigorbrandingYep. 25:13.23Burney JenningsThey’re all really, really good competitors and operators. um You know, for us, I think we are able to different differentiate ourselves in the breakfast space because we close it too. And we’ve already talked about that, but people know breakfast is our focus. And I think when you have that type of focus, it does put you ah in a better position to compete in that space. 25:40.12vigorbrandingamen and you know I’ll say on that focus, and I you know i know that i think you kind of answered this in a different way earlier, but I can’t help as ah as a marketer and an entrepreneur. i mean you know I have one marketing firm that does restaurant marketing, and I have another another marketing firm that does CPG, food and beverage, right two different companies. and you know you think well they are In my mind, they are very different because you know a restaurant is a retail business that just happens to sell food and beverage. and I don’t mean that to take that lightly, but CPG is you know is what it is. 26:06.40Burney JenningsRight. 26:10.39vigorbrandingit’s ah It’s branded food that is sold at at retail, usually at a gro obviously grocery store. so ah Different businesses, different business models, they just happen to both be food and beverage. 26:16.09Burney JenningsRight. 26:20.65vigorbrandingI’ve been seeing over the years a lot of crossover and you you know we have mutual friends that have restaurants on one side, but then they’ve taken their they’re they’ their primary item and they’ve moved it into the grocery chain. And I got to think with with the with the brand that you have at Biscuitville and the reputation, that if if you could figure out a way to package up those biscuits and get them in a grocer’s freezer, I gotta think that’s a home run. 26:44.98Burney JenningsYeah. 26:47.04vigorbrandingBut can you talk a little bit about that? I have a feeling it goes back to, like you were saying, fresh, fresh, fresh, fresh. So can you talk a little bit about that? Have you thought about that? Or is that maybe something on the horizon? 26:57.12Burney JenningsIf it’s not on the horizon, we have put very little thought into it. It does go back to yeah know the freshness of the product and how it would reflect on the brand. We may do that one day and you know it may be, um you know doing we have we have party biscuits. 27:11.41vigorbrandingHm. 27:15.09Burney Jenningsyeah We used to call them silver dollar. They’re just small biscuits that you’d see third on a platter or passed around around at a party. Something like that would be really good in my opinion, for yeah a freezer section in a grocery store. 27:29.85vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you see like ah some of the guys that, the you know, some of the folks have done parbake. So ah instead of it being like, for lack of but a better word, just a frozen ingredient built product, they’ll they’ll they’ll go so far as to, you know, partially bake it and then freeze it. 27:41.28Burney JenningsYeah. 27:46.77vigorbrandingAnd I think that makes one heck of a ah lot better, fresher product. And so 27:50.44Burney Jenningsyeah 27:50.83vigorbrandingthere there might That might be ah an opportunity for you. And hey, look, far bring it for me to tell you how to make biscuits. That’s the last thing I’m going to do. But from a marketing standpoint, I mean, boy, I got to tell you, I think you have such a great brand. And it comes down to just because of the fortitude and and really focusing on a ah breakfast segment, the biscuit, a time frame, fresh and making it with love that I think is 28:06.90Burney JenningsYeah. Right. 28:12.43vigorbrandingWell, that’s what makes great brands. So I think I think that’s awesome. 28:14.41Burney JenningsYeah. 28:15.70vigorbrandingSo I mean, you know, before we go here, like what’s what’s next for Biscuitville? What else? What else? you you For lack of a better word, cooking up. Is there new locations? Are you moving into any new areas? What would what excites you? what’s What’s going on at Biscuitville? 28:29.14Burney JenningsYou know, it’s the growth. We were a very slow growth company. I wouldn’t call us a fast growths growth company, but the new markets is where we’re focused. You know, South Carolina ah moving into Greenville next year, you know, just expanding in that South Carolina market is really important to us. 28:38.95vigorbrandingAwesome. 28:48.30vigorbrandingYeah that’s excellent and you know I’m a big trends guy I mean you know at Quench we do the food and beverage trends and the restaurant trends I’ve been doing it for I think it’s like 17 years now and I will say I mean you know that that focus 28:48.35Burney JenningsHope to get to Georgia one day, but that’s a good five or six years down the road. Yeah. 29:09.19vigorbrandingon a product and a focus on a day part. And if just the overall, again, the Constitution you have and the focus that you have and the fortitude you have is what makes brilliant and great brands. So I commend you for it. You check a lot of boxes. I’ll tell you as far as what’s on trend, what consumers want. And I think that’s that’s ah very, very admirable. So I guess keep up keep up the great work. 29:29.37Burney JenningsThank you. 29:31.24vigorbrandingso So now I have to have a good 29:31.64Burney JenningsThank you, Michael. But you know, hell ah you know, um I do read your material and Quench does a really good job at the market research. I love the presentations you do. They’re exciting, they’re engaging, and they are full of a lot of tidbits of information that I can walk away with. So you guys do a great job with that. 29:51.36vigorbrandingI appreciate you saying that. That’s very kind. Now before I let you go here, I have one last question. I’m going to, you know, you can’t say one of your biscuits. So it’s got, you got it. I’m going to steer you off your biscuits, right? You don’t have to mention any other brands, but if you had one final meal, What would you eat and why? 30:05.37Burney JenningsHmm One final meal my wife makes the best pepperoni pizza And I’ve had a lot of pepperoni pizza, especially since you know growing up we had a pizza pizza pizza restaurant um That’s I would say that that’s it 30:07.21vigorbrandingAnd maybe even where, if it’s a special restaurant or a special place or whatever else. 30:13.51vigorbrandingYeah. 30:22.52vigorbrandinglike ah Pizzaville. Yeah. 30:30.62vigorbrandingWell, maybe one day. 30:31.37Burney Jenningsits It’s very simple, pepperoni, cheese, sauce, and a great crust. 30:33.12vigorbrandingyeah 30:36.69vigorbrandingWe know history repeats itself. So maybe one day there’ll be this thing where, I mean, your grandmother, ah you know, gifted your father the biscuit recipe. 30:45.38Burney JenningsRight. 30:46.74vigorbrandingMaybe one day you’re your wife gifts the pepperoni ah recipe to one of your your your kids and maybe maybe it all comes back around, you know? 30:54.79Burney JenningsYou never know. 30:56.77vigorbrandingPizzaville reborn with with your with your wife’s recipe. 30:57.78Burney JenningsThat’s right. 30:59.55vigorbrandingI love it. 31:00.15Burney JenningsRight. 31:00.19vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Well, Bernie, you are fantastic as always. I really appreciate your time and thank you so much. And again, congratulations on such a great brand. And again, brands are built on promises. And I mean, your promises of of ah fresh and and love and and all that just really comes through and everything. And that’s that’s it’s very admirable. 31:21.02Burney Jenningshi Thank you. Been a pleasure. 31:25.08vigorbrandingCool. All right. i think 

Ben started Tocabe with his friend and business partner Matthew Chandra. Opened in 2008, Tocabe is one of the only restaurants in Denver specializing in Native and Indigenous cuisine and one of only a handful in the United States. Ben is a tribal member of the Osage Nation of northeast Oklahoma. Ben also created Seed To Soul, which creates prepared authentic Native American meals for people in need in Native American communities. In Ben’s words, Seed to Soul helps to create and develop a Native food system. Tocabe was featured on Diners, Drive-In’s & Dives in 2011. Before the appearance, Tocabe was struggling. After the appearance, business “skyrocketed.” Ben admits that operating a Native restaurant isn’t as easy as a burger or pizza restaurant because the food doesn’t have the built in knowledge and familiarity that other restaurants might have.  QUOTES “Whenever someone asks me ‘What is Native American cuisine?’, I don’t know. And that’s the whole point. We’re all so different depending on the region and tribal community.” (Ben) “I always like to say we’re the oldest cultures on the continent but in many ways we have the youngest cuisine because it’s not clearly defined.” (Ben) “When we started we said we wanted to create the trend for what a Native restaurant is in America.” (Ben) “We started with Osage-specific recipes, but now we’re ingredient-driven. We source from native food producers from all over the country.” (Ben) On Tocabe’s appearance on Diners, Drive-Ins & Dives: “Guy (Fieri) was amazing. He was so fun, he was engaging. He enjoyed being there. You can tell he was into it.” (Ben) “For us to be a Native restaurant, we need to support the Native food system. And since it’s so spread out, we can’t always be locally made. So we say ‘Native first, local second.’” (Ben) “We source wild rice from the Great Lakes, blueberries from Maine, huckleberries from Washington state, olive oil from California, beans from the southwest. You name it, we source from all over.” (Ben) TRANSCRIPT “Whenever someone asks me ‘What is Native American cuisine?’, I don’t know. And that’s the whole point. We’re all so different depending on the region and tribal community.” (Ben)  “I always like to say we’re the oldest cultures on the continent but in many ways we have the youngest cuisine because it’s not clearly defined.” (Ben)  “When we started we said we wanted to create the trend for what a Native restaurant is in America.” (Ben)  “We started with Osage-specific recipes, but now we’re ingredient-driven. We source from native food producers from all over the country.” (Ben)  On Tocabe’s appearance on Diners, Drive-Ins & Dives: “Guy (Fieri) was amazing. He was so fun, he was engaging. He enjoyed being there. You can tell he was into it.” (Ben)  “For us to be a Native restaurant, we need to support the Native food system. And since it’s so spread out, we can’t always be locally made. So we say ‘Native first, local second.’” (Ben)  “We source wild rice from the Great Lakes, blueberries from Maine, huckleberries from Washington state, olive oil from California, beans from the southwest. You name it, we source from all over.” (Ben) 

Roboburger is billed as the “World’s First Burger Chef In a Vending Format.” RoboBurger condenses the average kitchen by 99% into just 12 square feet, including refrigeration, heating, ventilation, prep line and cleaning. Burgers are automatically grilled and assembled in under 4 minutes. Roboburger RoboBurger was invented by Audley Wilson, a data scientist; Dan Braido, a Rutgers PhD grad; and Andy Siegel, a serial entrepreneur. Audley and his team have been working on Roboburger for about five years but Audley’s passion for robotics goes all the way back to his childhood. Audley has been passionate about robotics and automation from a young age, and one of his teenage years robotics prototypes got him a scholarship at Carnegie Mellon. RoboBurger was in beta phase up until SharkTank. They launched their first beta location in a dive bar in Jersey City in 2020. They launched an NSF-certified model in 2022. The units now – generation 5 – are UL certified and are launching in locations from Indiana to Missouri. Future locations for Roboburger machines include colleges, airports and rest stops. Friends encouraged Audley to take his idea to Shark Tank since the earliest days of the Roboburger process. Shark Tank producers noticed the media coverage about RoboBurger and reached out to Audley in 2022 with an offer to appear. It wasn’t until 2023 that Audley and his team decided the machine was reach for a prime time appearance.  QUOTES “No one ever went bankrupt trying to feed America burgers.” (Michael) “One of the biggest challenges (with Roboburger) has been the health requirements. Getting that NSF certification was a gargantuan challenge and getting our UL certification on top of that was even more.” (Audley)“We clean the griddle after every burger. We do heat sanitization every four hours. We’ve actually got our cleaning process certified by a third party.” (Audley) “(One of our goals is to) make food service accessible for vending.” (Audley)“People are starting to shift to a higher convenience lifestyle. How can I get what I want, when I want it, wherever I am.” (Audley) “When you get to Shark Tank, it’s just one go. You’re standing on a carpet. It’s live. There are no cuts.” (Audley)“Shark Tank was a really interesting experience. I’ve done thousands of pitches over the years, but I’ve never had one (like Shark Tank).” (Audley) “We’re very happy with the (Shark Tank) deal. Those are exactly the sharks that we wanted to make a deal with.” (Audley) TRANSCRIPT 00:01.57vigorbrandingHello there to Fork Tales. Today’s guest is Audley Wilson. Now, typically, I have chefs on. Typically, I have restaurateurs. But today, we have a robotics expert. ah He is a burger expert and founder and CEO of Robo Burger, the world’s first burger chef in a vending machine. That’s right. He makes burgers within a vending machine. He also recently appeared on Shark Tank to pitch his idea to the investors. Audley, thank you so much for joining us today. 00:31.42Audley WilsonWell, thank you so much, Michael, for having me on. I’m excited to be speaking with you. 00:36.82vigorbrandingAwesome. wow You and I got to meet, I think it was a little over a year ago and I i saw you then again in LA and I got to actually not only see you, but I also saw the Robo Burger. So that’s super cool and I i got to test it. I got to have the burger and it was ah it was impressive. So let’s start with some background about rogo Robo Burger. I’m sorry, it’s like a tongue twister. ah Tell us about Robo Burger and how it all got started. 00:58.35Audley Wilsonhey five times but So, oh man. Well, so it’s a long story. I’ve been working on a robo burger for in this current incarnation for about five years, but I’ve been working on food robotics over the course of my, for my entire life and burger machines for about 20. So, uh, you know, my first burger machine, my first food machine, uh, got me into Carnegie Mellon. Uh, and like, you know, then it was really focused on. residential kitchens, right? So like, how can you make an entire kitchen, fully automated? 01:31.33Audley WilsonAnd yeah so, you know, talk about really ahead of your time. um So like, that was, that was my first machine, and it was really, could do a variety of different meals. 01:34.72vigorbrandingRight. 01:40.23Audley WilsonBut really all it can make well is rice and chicken. when Yeah, it’s ah but first i college kid that’s great. 01:44.40vigorbrandingSo, but was that something that you did before? yeah Was that something you did before school? Like before you got into the into Carnegie Mellon or was it a contest or talk about that? 01:51.97Audley WilsonYeah. Yes, I was working on this since ah when I was in high school. 01:56.90vigorbrandingThat’s crazy. 01:57.18Audley WilsonSo when I was in high school, I was there, so you know, constantly working on this crazy machine because I was like, you know, I got to feed myself in college. So why not just have a crazy machine that could do it? um And but really, one of the challenges was it was trying to do so many things in one machine. So it was a super, super, super complicated. um But yeah, so that was that was what I was working on in high school. um I’ve been making food, ever since I learned, I self taught electrical computer engineer. So when I was like eight years old, my dad started teaching me how to do electronics. And then I was like, this is this is awesome. Took his college textbooks and started going through those. And I was like, you know so I taught myself electronics. And then I was like, well, if I could make motors move and lights turn on, why not make a food machine? I was watching the Jetsons a lot back then. 02:44.85vigorbrandingUh huh. 02:44.83Audley Wilsonum you know, because it was on constant replay back in the 80s. So was it was like, okay, you know, like, I can make, I can make, you know, Rosie goes up to a machine and she enters what she wants. And then she, you know, outcomes as like, you know, ham on a bone or whatever. ah yeah and I wanted to make that machine. 03:03.40vigorbrandingThat is, that’s crazy. That’s it’s wild. And you know I gotta to say, you’re probably the only human being on earth that can say, I’ve been working on a burger machine for 20 years. 03:13.02Audley WilsonYes, taking a little longer than I expected. 03:13.63vigorbrandingah but But you’re dedicated your life to the burger machine. I think that’s awesome. I mean, you know. 03:19.72Audley WilsonOh, yes, definitely. um you know In college, yeah when I got into CMU, one of the reasons I got in was actually because of that that’s residential food machine. 03:29.71vigorbrandingSure. 03:29.84Audley Wilsonum and In college, own they CMU was awesome and know they they were able to fund some of my development. I was working on the machine throughout the time period. My junior year, i was I was an entrepreneurship major there, so my junior year I had to start a business. So, that’s when I started my first business, which was actually a restaurant. um So, because I was like, okay, my robot isn’t there yet. um If I actually want to dedicate my entire life to food robotics, I should probably learn how to to cook and how a restaurant works. um So, I started a restaurant, you know, because there’s no simpler way to do that. um 04:03.50Audley Wilsonyeah But yeah that’s really yeah everyone’s like, that’s a horrible idea. Don’t do this. This this industry is hard. And you know I definitely learned that that’s the case. 04:13.68vigorbrandingyeah 04:13.75Audley Wilsonum and But to what it was excellent about that time period is they it ah enabled me to really understand what the problem was that I wanted to solve. um you know the labor What I was facing was massive labor problems, um you know tons of really really long hours that I needed to cover, a lack of consistency between my chefs on the weekend or the the late night shifts, um you know and also the size of the kitchen. right My kitchen took up a large space, like you know how can I make this all smaller? 04:39.33vigorbrandingRight. 04:43.44Audley WilsonAnd then like you data. There was like no data in my kitchen. I got data really by putting it in at the end of the day, so I didn’t really have that much data back in 2004. So you know that’s that’s what i wanted to solve like how could i just make this that and it like hit me like one night when i was uh when i was closed down my restaurants like wow what if i just like made this a lot simpler to go back to an automated food restaurant that that ma machine i was working on upset focus on commercial. One thing, just the burger, because it’s yeah like’s it’s pretty standardized for the most part. 05:16.00vigorbrandingHmm. 05:19.52Audley Wilsonright you know Top bun, bottom bun, patty, and anything else that goes on in the in the middle there. 05:22.28vigorbrandingOkay. 05:26.00Audley Wilsonso like you know It’s consistent. um so yeah I could do one thing over and over and over and over again. and At that time period, I really wanted to like automate the whole back end of a Burger King. but 05:36.58vigorbrandingYeah, that’s it’s fascinating. So when you did your restaurant i mean and obviously you summed up everybody’s issues in the restaurant business. I mean, quality of food, consistency, the the labor shortage and just the cost of labor. I mean, you know, ah you’re you’re talking to everybody here and that makes ah that makes a ton ton of sense. um but But just real quick on your on your restaurant, like when you started a restaurant, it was at one location, was it a QSR, was it a focused, it it was it one of those where you focused on just one sort of type of food or one one sort of like like li burgers or a hot dogs or anything like that. Talk talk about that a little bit. 06:11.34Audley WilsonYeah, so I was writing a trend back in 2004. I’m not sure if you remember hookah lounges. They had just came through New York City. 06:17.58vigorbrandingSure. 06:19.21Audley WilsonSo one of my friends dragged me to a hookah bar in LES, you know, checked out the scene. I was like, this is actually pretty cool. This is an experience I haven’t had before. And, you know, it didn’t exist in Pennsylvania at the time. So, you know, I was the first hookah bar in Pittsburgh. um yeah so I opened opened the the concept there at first it was a hookah bar mediterranean tea and drinks and then i then i built out the kitchen myself and with my friends and my fraternity brothers built out the kitchen so went through the whole ah you know process of getting all the like the licenses and everything there so that’s what i learned about the permitting processes which. 06:59.52vigorbrandingUh-huh. 06:59.86Audley Wilsona big part of our life now. And yeah and then then after that, we turned it into a whole music scene. We had like lines around the block. It was it was pretty cool. um and It was Mediterranean food was the ultimate focus. um Because it was so hard to build out the kitchen, we ended up going all electric um you know using these huge pizza ovens to heat up legs of lamb because we couldn’t do a stack. And that’s really one of those things I think my machine really solves for. you know it’s a vetless solution So you can put it anywhere, just plug it in literally, cleans the air, filters it. 07:27.98vigorbrandingYeah. 07:35.57Audley WilsonBecause they told me it was like 100,000 to put in my vent, ah just just the vent solution. 07:37.84vigorbrandingOh, sure. 07:40.66Audley WilsonI was like, really, this is crazy. um So I unfortunately limited the options that I had in my my establishment. 07:48.17vigorbrandingYeah, and you are obviously a serial entrepreneur. I feel like you you can see something and you can, you know, and it’s not a problem. It’s an opportunity, right? And everyone says that, but I think it’s obvious you’ve executed on that all across the board from evolving your hookah thing to the to the robotics. to If I can do electronics, why can’t I make burgers with it? too I’ve got to eat. So therefore, I should make something that can feed me. It’s pretty crazy. That’s that’s awesome. And you know it just goes to show, I guess, that that that drive and positivity and and the and the willing to have your eyes wide open and and execute. 08:20.60vigorbrandingThat’s the key, execute. 08:21.19Audley WilsonAll 08:21.52vigorbrandingAnd I think it’s awesome. So I get to talk to a lot of entrepreneurs, but I’m really i’m really impressed by all that you’ve done. 08:26.79Audley Wilsonright. 08:27.36vigorbrandingIt’s really, really super cool. So, okay, we’ll get to Robo Burger here. 08:29.93Audley Wilsongo 08:31.40vigorbrandingNow, why why not pizzas? why and but eat Why not hot dogs? Why not chicken wings? Why why burgers? 08:37.09Audley WilsonYeah, again, it’s the standardization. um One of the hardest parts of food machines and in general, when I’ve been building them, has been dispensing the ingredients, right? So, you know, if you have like too wide a variety of ingredients, then it could be like challenging. um But really, I love burgers. ah Back in the day, I was eating probably about five burgers a week. um yeah know So it’s pretty ah pretty high pretty high percentage of burgers. 09:07.61Audley Wilsonum and you know And I think they’re really the design of it. I love the sandwich. yeah It’s like ah the perfect meal on the go. 09:14.05vigorbrandingYep. 09:16.30Audley WilsonYou know you could grab it. You could take it in your car. I think it’s just a very convenient form of of heating yeah what I think it’s a little more sloppy. 09:25.77vigorbrandingWell, look, yeah and no one’s ever going to, yeah no, no, one I don’t think anyone ever go really bankrupt trying to feed America burgers. 09:28.80Audley Wilsonyeah 09:33.69vigorbrandingCause I mean, that’s definitely, uh, it’s definitely on the forefront of, uh, I think America’s palette for, uh, uh, for a lot of reasons, but. 09:34.35Audley WilsonYeah. 09:40.37vigorbrandingSo, but like, okay, vending machines, they’ve been around for a while as far as food, hot food, but obviously pre-made and, you you know, soggy thing, not necessarily good for sure. 09:49.14Audley Wilsonyeah 09:50.50vigorbrandingah You know, what what were some of the challenges with putting the process into a 12 square foot box? And talk about the process of your burger because it is not just you know, ah just reheated. It’s not just a microwaved pre-made sandwich. I think maybe that might be even a drawback. Maybe people might think, well, geez, this is probably what this is, but it’s not. It’s it’s it’s made fresh. 10:10.34Audley WilsonYeah. 10:11.16vigorbrandingSo can you talk a little bit about that and then some of the um some of the challenges? 10:15.55Audley WilsonYeah, throughout this journey, I’ve been blessed to have two really good co-founders, Andy Siegel and Dan Bredo. Dan was my CTO. hes Me and him went to Carnegie Mellon together. So he’s really been faced with having to conquer these insane hurdles of really taking an entire commercial kitchen and putting it into 12 square feet um and getting and NSF and UL certified as such. 10:30.03vigorbrandingThanks. 10:40.26Audley Wilsonum So you know one of the biggest challenges, again, was ah you know the, you know, all the health requirements, right? You know, getting that and NSF certification was a gargantuan challenge, and then getting our UL certification on top of that was even more. You know, you always hope that there is some governing body that is ultimately saying, is this good is this safe and am I going to die by eating this? what these these um These groups are there for, um you know, their standards really have pushed us to the next level in making a much better, safer um thing, but ultimately the the ah challenges are or great. um So some of them, you know was you know, most vending machines start with food in a pre-packaged container and they stay there the entire time. 11:30.83vigorbrandingMmhmm. 11:31.17Audley Wilsonhours actually starts in a package. We open the package, dispense the part, the components from there, close those packages, then cook and assemble everything and then put it into a second, into a final packaging. So, you know, due to that, the food touches, you know, food touching zones for all the chefs out there, you know, obviously everything needs to be cleaned. You know, so how do you actually cook? So we, like I guess you could go through the cooking process for ah listeners who don’t know how this machine works. So Roamer Burger, when you after you’ve done ordering what you like on the screen and paying, it’s going to then take a frozen patty out of the freezer, put it onto a griddle, and cook it on both sides. 12:14.66Audley WilsonWhile that’s cooking, it’s going to dispense buns from the toaster into the toasters from our sealed dispensers, and and then start toasting those. Once the buns are toasted, it’s then going to grab a box, put the buns into the box, add the chosen condiments, get the patty, and then get grab go over and get cheese a layer of cheese on top, and then go out to the user and where the user will see it come out, and then the clamshell box will close. So that’s ultimately the process. That’s our our patented procedure for making a burger. 12:46.19Audley Wilsonum We have five patents there. So those are like we have five different inventions. um First one is the oven system, the way we actually cook it on a griddle. 12:50.62vigorbrandingMm hmm. 12:55.89Audley Wilsonyeah So that like yeah we’re actually cooking that. Making it really you know, you really get to the char we really you know, it’s the same way you would want a patty cooked the toasters or another patent that we had because ultimately we had to toast the but toast the bun and also perfectly dispense it our first burger machine back in 2019 that we put that we we were we put live in Andy’s Bar in Jersey City it would flip the buns half the time like ah 13:26.69Audley Wilsonah Every time, just with the buns half the time. It was, it was, it was the worst. We called it a lucky burger because they just kept it. But it was like, we were always lucky. It was horribly unlucky with the the buns. 13:36.98vigorbrandingMm 13:38.74Audley WilsonIt’s, you know, but that’s the thing, you know, these simple, these products are very soft and delicate, you know, the bun. 13:43.78vigorbrandinghmm. 13:44.11Audley Wilsonum And you actually have to get it there right side up every single time. um And, you know, every, everyone’s, everyone is used to having a burger but prepared one way. So, you know, if it’s ever done wrong. um The next, next patent we had was our dispenser, which is actually what holds all these, uh, these a bench, all these, uh, the buns and the top on the bottom button and the paddy sit in different dispensers. So that was a real challenge because, you know, the buns are soft. Um, sometimes, sometimes things can stick. How do you actually you know dispense it every single time? Um, so that was a huge challenge for us. 14:20.49vigorbrandingMmhmm. 14:20.83Audley Wilsonevery Every step was just huge hurdles, but my team must have a really good team, people really solving these problems. it The list just keeps going, but you now now everything is really down to the hardware mechanisms have been perfected, and now we’re getting to do some really, really cool things on the software side, which is really exciting. 14:42.88vigorbrandingYeah, very cool. And it is amazing because, excuse me, the the the the burger is grilled and it’s not just nothing. And that’s the thing, I guess I wonder that that you have to not not overcome, but I think people would just assume because why wouldn’t you that, oh, it’s pre-made, pre-packaged, it’s in a microwave and that’s not it at all. And in fact, I’ll say, I’ll give some plugs here. You know, um Quench, our agency does CPG, food and beverage. ah We started in Pennsylvania and your buns are Martin’s potato rolls, which are very famous here in Pennsylvania, and they are making their rounds around the country, and it’s a really quality product. And and I think Heinz Ketchup is what you’re using too, another Pennsylvania brand. 15:19.59Audley WilsonYeah, so yeah, yeah we love Heinz. The machine that you know has these Heinz bagged products in it. So pretty much all of our condiments start in the Heinz bags and then they get stayed sealed throughout the entire system and that’s like one of those big tests that they also make sure. 15:37.29vigorbrandingYeah. 15:37.29Audley WilsonHow do you actually clean these lines? Have you guys ever had a beer line in your in your restaurant? right Lines are the worst. 15:41.48vigorbrandingYep. Yep. 15:42.87Audley WilsonYou got to clean them. 15:44.02vigorbrandingThat’s right. 15:44.03Audley WilsonSo like you know the machine also has like automatic processes to clean our condiment lines and systems like that because Every line is a problem um if you don’t have an actual cleaning solution. 15:54.10vigorbrandingYep. 15:54.22Audley WilsonSo a machine will automatically do soap, sanitizer, hot water. It has built-in hot water heater. Pretty much, we have as many many things that you could possibly fit into 12 square feet. um and you you know Everything that you would expect to be in your in a restaurant is inside of this. 16:12.20vigorbrandingYeah, and candidly, there’s there’s there’s there’s ah I mean, you guys are cleaning after every burger. So we hear about health inspectors. We hear about, oh, don’t go back in their kitchen, you know about restaurants. Oh, boy, you don’t want to see what it looks like back there. But you guys are actually cleaning after every every burger. and and and and you know and and So the the sanitation part of this thing, the the health part of this thing is like first, foremost, and and extremely well thought out. 16:27.01Audley WilsonYeah. 16:37.05vigorbrandingIs that correct? 16:38.22Audley WilsonYeah. 100%. You know, that’s been, uh, from the very beginning, it was like, you have to get the and NSF certification. Otherwise we can’t do this. We have to be able to really scale this across the country. Um, you know, in the and NSF, you know, that blue sticker that says and NSF, that was our goal from the beginning. 16:51.00vigorbrandingMm hmm. Mm hmm. 16:53.73Audley Wilsonum So, you know, like we clean off clean the the griddle after every burger, we do heat sanitization after every four hours, we do every day, it does a the daily soap, sanitizer, hot water treatment, you know, the three bin sink that you, you know, obviously required by the health department, um we do that process. And we’ve actually gotten our cleaning cleaning procedure certified by a third party. um like, you know, after you months and months and months of usage and doing the cleaning process, you know, in like, indetectable levels of microbes. So, you know, we did the whole culture growth and everything. My, Dan, he’s a PhD, so it’s been ah insane to have him on, you know, fighting this battle because he’s 17:37.98Audley Wilsonyeah He’s really been leading the charge. We’re actually going to the American ah the Association of Food and Drug Officers’ Apto conference next week to present the machine to all of the health the big health officials around the country because you know we’re we’re we’re not we’re we’re not shy now to show what we’ve done because it’s it’s been challenging to get here, um but it’s pretty cool. 17:54.22vigorbrandingVery cool. 18:01.29vigorbrandingYeah, ah yeah you should be you should be incredibly proud. and You know, you always are smiling and you’re always laughing. and I can only imagine how many obstacles you faced. And so you you’re you have the perfect attitude as ah as an entrepreneur because you’re you’re willing to smile and figure out the next thing. And that’s that’s ah that’s a gift. It sounds obvious, but boy, it’s so hard. And yeah, yeah. 18:21.34Audley WilsonOh man, yeah, those was hard days where it’s just like, you’re just like, you go home, you’re like, I don’t even know how we’re gonna, I don’t know how to put a smile on the face. 18:28.18vigorbrandingYeah. 18:29.13Audley Wilsonit And then you go in the next day, it’s like, gotta kick, gotta kick ass today to enter. 18:32.63vigorbrandingYeah, that’s right. That’s right. That’s absolutely right. All right. So you opened up your first row robo burger pop up in Jersey city in 2022. 18:36.44Audley WilsonYeah. 18:39.98Audley Wilsonyeah 18:41.01vigorbrandingHow many locations you have now and then where do you see your machines being successful? 18:45.62Audley WilsonYeah, so it’s been we’ve been in the beta period up until Shark Tank. so That was actually when we had pulled our our machines for all of our beta machines from the market. so First, we and we actually launched our first um unit to the market in 2020. That was in that that dive bar in Jersey City. 19:00.78vigorbrandingOkay. 19:03.87Audley WilsonThen in 2022, we introduced our and NSF certified Mark II generation Two model to the mall and then we then after that we went to a pilot flying J and a couple other locate in the college in Queens and a couple of the locations um to you know, just perfecting the technology getting up to the next levels and then now we just got our and NSF or UL certification for our generation five units and those are the units now we’re rolling into the market. 19:28.50vigorbrandingMm hmm. Hmm. 19:33.91Audley WilsonSo we have ah we we just launched our first units like a month ago into the market in ah in a business in a business and a business location with Pfizer. And now we’re and we’re launching with Penn Entertainment some casinos. in Pennsylvania they’re who are actually launching in their location in Indiana and then in their location in St. 19:51.77vigorbrandingMmhmm. 19:57.67Audley WilsonLouis this month and then next month we’re launching with another location for that same business and then machines after machines so going into a bunch of airports in terms of where we see the best bits you know convenience It’s really like where we are the the kitchen for convenience, both unattended retail as well as the traditional convenience store. So we we really are we really are looking forward to working with partners there. Bending, obviously. Bending partners, who we’re now able to 20:32.03Audley WilsonMake food service accessible for vending, which has really never been the case before. Food service previously was always prepared food, and distribution just dropping it onto to a cold case. and Now we’re talking about real food service, you know being able to offer their customers a higher so higher level solution. airports. We’re going into Orlando, MCO, and we’re going to be going into a few other airports throughout the country when our partners in the travel hospitality industry. And, you know, we’re excited to go into a few colleges. 21:05.70vigorbrandingSure. 21:06.61Audley WilsonHopefully our album amount is over the course of the next few months. So I’m just really excited to start getting this technology out there. 21:11.14vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Well, it makes sense. Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. You know, it’s kind of interesting because, ah you know, candidly, I was watching the your episode of Shark Tank, and we can talk about that. yeah But when I was watching, I was watching with my wife, and my you know, my wife’s smart. 21:23.90Audley Wilsonyou 21:26.40vigorbrandingShe’s like asking questions like, yeah do you really need um a vending machine that serves burgers? She was impressed by how fresh it was and all that. and i said to her i said well but like Someone did the first vending machine for a soda. and At the time, you could get a soda at your house, you get a soda at a grocery store, you get a soda probably at a convenience store. so There’s plenty of places to get a soda. Why did you need to build a refrigerator, put it somewhere? and and When you think about it from that perspective, i mean it probably seemed a bit outlandish and maybe almost unnecessary But yet, let’s face it, ah soda vending machines are huge. 21:58.43vigorbrandingSo why not burgers? why i mean it makes total When you look at it from that perspective, I think it makes total sense. 22:00.66Audley WilsonIndeed. 22:02.65vigorbrandingBecause again, to your point, like colleges or airports, there’s people that want to have a decent, ah you know a good quality food experience, and places aren’t open. And especially now after COVID, there’s so many issues with employees and you know cutting down hours and and and all of that that you you’re you’re actually answering. You’ve been working on the solution to a problem that probably has been exacerbated over the last couple of years. you know it’s a 22:27.50Audley WilsonYeah. it It’s interesting as well. 22:28.14vigorbrandingso 22:29.57Audley WilsonThink back to like even like 2000, like there were so many more cafeterias, like, you know, in every business that was open, c catering to the office. 22:34.22vigorbrandingRight. 22:38.83Audley WilsonObviously there’s more work from home now, which has sort of caused a sort of shift, right? 22:40.66vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 22:43.75Audley WilsonSo people have gone from like these, the cafeterias and people sort of moving back into this unattended retail. 22:46.82vigorbrandingRight. 22:50.78Audley WilsonVending solution. Um, you know, so going back to the world where the the automat was a solution, right? You know, so if you think back about that back in the 50s, there was the automat Um, so I think people are really starting to shift back to this high high convenience, right? How can I get what I want when I want it wherever I am? um And at the same time businesses need to handle for the fact that there’s ah you know, there’s less labor out there um at ah significantly higher rates than it was yeah I’m thinking back to minimum wage when I had my restaurant in 2004 was six dollars six dollars an hour 23:22.47vigorbrandingYeah, sure. Yeah. 23:25.27Audley WilsonI’m like, wow, I can’t even imagine. so you like having like you know I had 20 people. like I can’t imagine having that many people in a tiny small business with today’s minimal wages and increased food costs. 23:33.43vigorbrandingRight. Right. 23:41.09Audley Wilsonso you know like the The challenges are getting are bigger for the operator than ever. But yeah know by by going to the small unattended footprint, people are able to you know the distribute their costs over multiple locations, and make more money, um and and find new opportunities for growth. 24:01.13vigorbrandingThat’s great. so i mean we We talked briefly about the Shark Tank episode. I think people are really interested because it is ah as an entrepreneur, i mean i like I said, it’s one of those things where I’d sit there and and and focus on. I couldn’t watch it late at night because my brain would be spinning. you know i I loved it trying to figure out the angles. Would I do the deal? If I was selling the idea, how would I sell it? you know Looking at it from a marketing perspective, looking at it from a business perspective, it’s just you know my head’s going to explode. so Talk about that. like did you Did you pitch your idea? Did they come to you? What was the experience like? Did they do run-throughs? Talk a little bit about that and how the whole thing came together. i mean we see you know What do we see? Like 15 minutes, 12 minutes of any segment. um and you know but But what all is in there? i mean how How does that all work? I’d love to hear hear sort of like the behind the scenes a little bit. 24:51.43Audley WilsonYeah. Yeah, I remember when I started working on my burger machine back in the day, you know, Shark Tank had came out and they were everyone was like, you should go on Shark Tank with this idea. So it was crazy to to actually go on Shark Tank eventually. The way it all came about was through, I guess, you know media When we launched our first mission our first Gen 2 machine in the mall here in Jersey, we got 4.4 billion impressions, like 43 million in earned media value. 25:22.69Audley WilsonSo like we just got so much media. 25:23.32vigorbrandingMm hmm. 25:24.93Audley Wilsonum like I remember my wife ah my wife’s mom from Moldova saw us on TV and filmed it and sent us the video in Moldova. 25:30.52vigorbrandingMm 25:35.28Audley WilsonI was like, wow, this is… And I think that shows that like you know people have a lot of interest in this type of technology, and burgers specifically burgers are completely automated in a vending format. 25:39.48vigorbrandinghmm. 25:48.13Audley Wilsonum So that’s when we got the eye of the, I think, Shark Tank team. 25:54.63vigorbrandingGotcha. 25:54.68Audley Wilsonum So at that point they you know they reached out to me back back in 2022. I didn’t even respond because I’m like, there is no way I’m going on Shark Tank with this machine. It is way too early. I need to itate iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate. And then we did probably about 100 more iterations after that. 26:14.76vigorbrandingwow 26:14.72Audley WilsonAnd then you know a year later, i yeah like i get ah i get a response I get the same email again. It’s like, hey. I was like, wait, hold on. Did I respond the last time? And that’s what I realized. I didn’t respond like, wow, I’m a horrible person. ah hu So like, you know, it’s like, all right, you know what? I think we’re ready. So we responded, then then that pretty much got us into the process. And then we we had to do our practice pitches where, um you know, the producer’s feedback to me was usually around, you know, like every everyone did great, upset oddly, more energy. 26:49.93Audley Wilsonbut So my other two partners, they’re like very photogenic. So they like yeah they they really love being on camera. um but So yeah that was that was ah that was a fun process of you know just trying to you try to actually get nailed the pitch, because you get to practice, or they’re practicing it amongst ourselves um with some of our friends, trying to like, you this is you know this is what we’re, or what do you think about this these lines guys? 26:56.32vigorbrandingah 27:14.59vigorbrandingMm hmm. 27:15.64Audley Wilsonum And then, Yeah, but yeah we never when you actually get to Shark Tank, it’s just one go. it’s You get on stage, and you know that youre you’re there that you’re standing on this carpet, and the next, to you know the door’s open, and and it’s it’s live. it’s a the never no no No cuts. 27:36.12vigorbrandingGot it. 27:36.28Audley Wilsonyou and there you know they The team there is amazing. There’s so many cameras trained on your every move. um they’re you know they’re They’re amazing. um Yeah, it but it was ah it was really it was a really interesting experience. It was, you know, I’ve done thousands of pitches, you know, over the over the years, you know, thousands, but this one was, you know, I never had one. It was, you know, quite the same film where, you know, it’s going to be viewed by everyone and with everyone’s ah full ego and energy and enthusiasm coming for television, you know, in terms of the the judges on the other side. So, you know, it was quite an experience. 28:13.83vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. so So I read somewhere that that entrepreneurs who appear in the show required to meet with a show psychologist afterwards, just to make sure you weren’t beat up too bad or tortured by the experience. Was that true? Did you guys talk to somebody afterwards? 28:24.62Audley WilsonThat’s 100% true. That’s 100% true. I know, like, everywhere they told us before, it was like, ah that’s weird. And then author words, it was like, it actually was it was nice to talk. Like, we were all very over the moon and excited. So it was nice to, you know, they they really, you know, they’ve been doing it for 15 years. 28:40.86vigorbrandingYeah. 28:45.31Audley WilsonThey know what they’re doing. It’s an impressive of organization. 28:46.60vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. I mean, I’m sure. Hey, and you guys got a deal. Congratulations. I’m sure some people are over there and they’re in the fetal position crying in the corner. You know, like I spent most of my life, bill you know, dedicated to this business and they’re telling me it’s a terrible idea. So, ah but but yeah. 28:58.91Audley WilsonYou know, at one point, and you you know you you saw the episode, at one point in the middle of the episode, it’s like, wow, that’s good to be me. 29:05.63vigorbrandingYeah. Well, my wife said, Oh, they’re not going to get a deal. I’m like, well, just watch. Let’s see. You know? And, uh, you’re, by the way, you said about not being photogenic. I disagree with you, but your, your, your partner, the CMO was hilarious because he got a lot of closeups because in the beginning they were saying some stuff that wasn’t so nice and his eyes are just like, you look like a deer in the headlights. It was awesome. So he made he made for good TV. That’s for sure. That guy’s he’s a character you can tell. 29:26.93Audley Wilsonyeah 29:28.22vigorbrandingUh, but. 29:28.42Audley Wilsonyeah he’s so He’s definitely a character. He used to be on ah TV commercials back in the day, like Mr. Bubbles and all this other stuff. And and he’s ah you know he he’s is ah quite a character. 29:41.26vigorbrandingYeah. And so you you you got in with Mr. Wonderful, Kevin O’Leary and Michael Rubin. So you got a $1.5 million dollars loan at 9%. And are you are you happy with the deal? Have you guys ah gotten any traction? 29:52.16Audley WilsonYeah, we’re very happy with the deal. These are exactly the sharks that we wanted to work with. 29:54.39vigorbrandingOK. 29:57.73Audley Wilsonyeah We wanted to we wanted to know work with Mr. Wonderful. We wanted to have him ah up on stage and interacting with the machine. ah And that that was before we found out who the guest shark was going to be. 30:08.71vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 30:08.88Audley WilsonAnd it was Michael Rubin. And we’re like, wow, Michael Rubin. That’s really cool. So like you know we ended up getting exactly the sharks that we wanted to do a deal with. two sharks and especially after coming to a point where we thought we were going to have like zero sharks at one point. 30:23.43vigorbrandingYeah, yeah. 30:23.51Audley Wilsonis So you it was it was ah was it it was just a it was ah it was a lot of fun um after it was done. It was the most intense 34 hours and but of my life, the most intense 34 hour trip to LA ever. 30:41.85vigorbrandingYeah, I’ll bet. 30:41.91Audley Wilsonum It was just nonstop. 30:44.97vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Okay. So let’s talk back to back on the rubber burger. Can you share some details about what you’re, you’re cooking up for the future? I mean, like, you know, some people want bacon on their burgers. You know, we know the lettuce and tomato thing and fresh vegetable. That can be obviously comp an issue. Can you talk a little bit about maybe some of the decisions you made to do things, not to do things and some potential ideas of what you might do next? 31:00.46Audley WilsonYeah, 31:04.12Audley Wilsonyeah so so let let’s talk about lettuce and tomatoes first. The reason we didn’t do do lettuce and tomatoes first is Dan would always say is because of E. 31:08.15vigorbrandingYeah. 31:13.30Audley Wilsoncoli and some of the challenges there and being able to detect it. 31:13.77vigorbrandingHmm. 31:16.27Audley Wilsonum It actually is just another hurdle for the operator and our goal is trying to reduce hurdles for the operator to be able to deliver road burger to their end consumer. So yeah that’s why we’re not offering it our first first iterations of these units. um In time, we’d like to operate. But actually, the operators that we’ve been working with haven’t been asking for that so much. But we’d love to be able to do it so that we can do more brand partnerships with you some of the bigger fast food companies that are out there that do use lettuce and tomatoes. In terms of bacon, we would like to do bacon. 31:52.30Audley WilsonWe’re not sure how or when. We definitely want to add it to our lineup. In terms of coming soon, what we’re working towards, we want to be able to make the unit smaller. We want to have a smaller unit that we can even reduce the cost to the operator even more. 32:05.61vigorbrandingMm 32:10.34Audley WilsonWe want to be able to make a bigger unit that can really be able to do really high volume. you If you think about replacing the back end of burger production for any of the big fast food companies. and So we want to be able to go about bigger and smaller while constantly just trying to reduce the cost to the operators that way. Because at the end of the day, like yeah I’m an operator, Andy’s andy’s had ah three restaurants as well. 32:32.35vigorbrandinghmm. 32:33.68Audley Wilsonum you like We know how how annoying it is to actually take a portion of your profits out of your pocket to fund X and Y expenses. So we just want to make it lower and lower and lower so that way they can make more money. 32:46.69vigorbrandingthat’s fantastic 32:47.31Audley WilsonThat’s really where our focuses are on. Um, and, uh, you know, faster, you know, it’s currently takes us about four minutes to make a burger. We like to be able to get more throughput, you know, cause at the end of the day, you know, it’s all, if you’re there, which is multiple people right now, we can, we can spread, if there are multiple machines, we can spread orders across a few, the cluster of units, but you know, we don’t want to be ah that same unit to be able to make burgers two times as fast. 33:11.36vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. And if I remember correctly, your, your machine currently can hold like 50 burgers, right? Like so, uh, it stacks. 33:17.53Audley WilsonYeah. 33:18.40vigorbrandingYeah. So, and I mean, depend obviously depending on how many you sell that someone’s got to come in and then service the machine and, and restock it and everything else. 33:25.40Audley WilsonExactly. 33:26.22vigorbrandingSo yeah, that makes total sense. 33:27.31Audley WilsonExactly. 33:27.63vigorbrandingSo so 33:28.47Audley WilsonSo in some of the airport applications in the busy or high volume, then yeah what we’re they’re doing is putting multiple machines, two, three, four machines in like clusters and then multiple clusters throughout the locations. So that’s ah really what we’re building towards that world where you have food anywhere, anytime. Because we’ve all been to that airport where yeah um the your flight gets delayed. 33:48.16vigorbrandingYeah. 33:50.29Audley WilsonYou’re there till like 2 AM. m yeah The bar closed down at 8 PM. 33:52.45vigorbrandingYeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, no doubt. 33:56.34Audley Wilsonjust there waiting 33:57.88vigorbrandingYep, I totally, totally. 33:58.23Audley Wilsonyeah so well 33:59.76vigorbrandingI’ve experienced it pretty much every week. you know I’m on a plane every week and ah you know every other week umm I’m in a situation similar to that. like When do I eat? When should I get something? What can I get? What’s the quality I can get? you know And then with delays and layovers and canceled flights, you never know when where you’re going to be. So I think it’s i think um it makes a ton of sense. Now, I have a couple of other just really simple questions for you. 34:21.39Audley WilsonAnd you’re just there waiting. 34:21.65vigorbrandingAnd I know your burger’s great. I’ve had it. So between, I’ll say, Burger King, McDonald’s, and Wendy’s, who makes the best burger? 34:28.40Audley Wilsonah wendy um Wendy’s, Dave Thomas all but all day long, but Shake Shack is definitely my my favorite here as a New Yorker. 34:33.92vigorbrandingYeah, right. 34:39.09Audley Wilsonum yeah I’m a big Shake Shack fan. 34:42.94vigorbrandingYeah, I totally and you know what i agree with exactly what you said. I do agree with Wendy’s out of those three. And I i love Shake Shack. I’m a diehard Phillies fan. They have one down outside the stadium or inside the stadium. And that’s that’s usually my go to that or hot dog. Of course, it’s a baseball game. um And, you know, I was at Burger America in New York and who does the smash burger? and ah the Mr. Mott’s and he said he dedicated his life to the hamburger. So you two have a lot in common. You ought to yeah you you ought to connect. 35:07.38Audley WilsonOh, man, yeah. 35:08.79vigorbrandingHe’s a 35:09.12Audley Wilsonum but i ever I think that’s I’d love to connect to it. another 35:11.99vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. And so now like one final meal, if you have to, you could pick anything other than your burger. I can’t let you just pick your burger, but anything, what would your, yeah what would your final meal be? 35:19.30Audley WilsonOh, definitely. Yeah, let’s see. 35:22.01vigorbrandingWhat would it be? And where would you have it? Why? 35:26.91Audley WilsonProbably lobster and oysters um on a beach in Jamaica. 35:30.29vigorbrandingVery good. 35:33.31vigorbrandingOh, nice. Well done. I like that. I can, I can picture that. That’s fantastic. 35:37.01Audley WilsonBecause I’m Jamaican, because I’m Jamaican, and whenever me and my wife are down there, I love love hitting up a nice lobster um but from like the rust, the shack on the beach. 35:41.71vigorbrandingThat’s great. 35:50.49vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. Ollie, you were wonderful. Is there anything else you want to mention about what you’re up to or anything else about the ah Robo Burger? 35:58.65Audley WilsonYeah, well, you know, so right now we’re offering robo burger for sale for the first time really to the general public. Previously, we’ve only been working with like some of the, the biggest players that manage food and, uh, and convenience. So now we’re actually, uh, selling these units. 36:14.19vigorbrandingFantastic. 36:14.15Audley WilsonSo if anybody is interesting in getting their hands on the unit, we’d love to speak with you. Um, come check us out on our website, the robo burger.com th E robo burger.com. Um, and, uh, looking forward to speaking with you. 36:27.91vigorbrandingAli, you are awesome. I appreciate your time and I love your passion and congratulations on your success and your fortitude, I’ll say. You just smile and keep going forward. So, I mean, it’s amazing and I’m really, really impressed by what you’ve done. Thank you. 36:41.09Audley WilsonWell, thank you so much. I appreciate speaking with you. 36:44.92vigorbrandingGood deal. 

Craig is the founder of Doc B’s Restaurant & Bar. The restaurant is named after Craig’s late father, “Doctor B,” Doc B’s was first opened in Chicago in September 2013 and is a fresh, casual dining concept. Doc B’s has 10 locations in Chicago, Tampa, Ft. Lauderdale, and Coral Gables, FL; Austin, Dallas, and Forth Worth, TX. Craig was inspired to follow a career in the restaurant industry after meeting Morton’s Steakhouse legend Allen Bernstein at a Knicks game. Craig and his dad talked to Allen at his courtside seats and he later formed a mentor relationship with Craig.  Craig interviewed Allen Bernstein for a career report in the sixth grade about being a restaurant owner. Allen would later industry Craig to other restaurant industry leaders.  Doc B’s started as a fast casual restaurant and transformed into a full service restaurant. That shift allowed Doc B’s to offer an elevated food offering and establish a better relationship with customers.  Different layouts of each Doc B’s location provides opportunities for different design elements and features within each location.   QUOTES “(Allen Bernstein) really transformed my life to a certain extent. Allen drove me to pursue a career in the restaurant industry.” (Craig)  “For me, the idea of hospitality and really going above and beyond for every guest was always really innate in the philosophy of our business. That’s why we transferred to full service.” (Craig) “It’s about slow and steady growth. Not just growing for growth sake. Really trying to get great real estate, grow organically, grow from within and build the team from within.” (Craig)  “I know the last chapter of our book. I just don’t know all the pages between today and then.” (Craig)  “We don’t want to cut costs just to get more bodies inside the restaurant. We want to maintain our integrity, we want to maintain our value on the plate and we don’t want to trim the quality that we offer.” (Craig)  “We’re traveling. We’re in our restaurants. We’re engaging with the team and engaging with guests. We’re doing constant evaluations of the food and service.” (Craig)  “It really comes down to letting the general managers own their business and operate it like it was their four walls.” (Craig)  “What’s fun about my job is you can have a day that’s the easiest day in the world and then you can have another day where nothing is going right.” (Craig)    TRANSCRIPT 00:00.60vigorbrandingHey there hey I’m really excited today to talk to a guest ah a gentleman I met probably a couple months ago something happened there got an error message you the phone expensive fiction problems. She’s got internet connection. 00:20.20vigorbrandingIt’s still going just gonna let rather than stop it ended I think we’ll just I’ll trim this up so you let’s start over. Okay hi I’m really excited about today’s guest mainly because I love a good origin story. Our guest today is Craig Bernstein he’s the founder of dock be’s fresh kitchen restaurants Craig I really appreciate you joining us today. Um, ah you and I met like ah I don’t know a couple months ago out in l a and I got to talking to you and I just love a good story. So welcome to the show. 00:36.61Craig Yeah, thank you so much. Thanks for having me Michael and it was great to meet you and share with you. My story and tell you more about it today. 01:00.21vigorbrandingSounds great. So you know when I first heard you talk about doc bees. Um I was fascinated by it for 2 reasons. First of all as I said I’m a marker right? So I love a good story. Ah, ah, original stories or or what brands are made of so we have doc bees and also ah you know Doc Bee was your father. 01:11.97Craig Um, yeah. 01:18.23vigorbrandingAnd my dad was my best friend so the whole thing just kind of fit together for me and I was really ah, really excited. Ah for you to be on here today so can can you tell me tell me a little bit about the whole thing about your dad and and and how this whole thing about the doc bees got started. 01:19.90Craig Full I have to go way back way back? Um, you know my father was a doctor um, like you mentioned my last name is Bernstein so Doc B is ultimately where the name for the business came from but um I grew up in New York long island and me my father and I you we you know we used to go to the New York Knickscapes and we had a great you know great experiences going to madison square garden rooting on the knicks in the 90 s Patrick Ewing Charles Oakley John Starks still remember it like it was yesterday. And so if I go into the story about how Doc Bees and the restaurant started. Um, yeah I could go into that detail if that’s what you’d like yeah so so it’s it’s kind of a cool story. So I’m ten years old I’m a middle child I have ah a younger sister. 02:08.55vigorbrandingIt’s awesome. 02:13.75Craig Sarah she’s 5 an older brother Jonathan at the time he was 12 and I remember like it was yesterday. My dad calls the house ma we all ran to the phone at that time you actually wanted to answer the phone now when the phone rings nobody wants to answer it and we picked up the phone. 02:14.96vigorbrandingYeah I’d love. Yeah, absolutely. 02:31.14Craig And my dad says I have 2 kni tickets for tonight’s game and says to my mom who can come and we all we all raised our hand I want to go I want to go and my mom said all right here’s what we’re gonna do. We’re gonna cut straws into a hat. And whoever gets the smallest straw gets to go to the gate. So I can’t imagine my sister by the way 5 was gonna be allowed to go to the Knicks game that late at night but she was included because she always got anything she wanted and so we all picked straws. And I ended up picking the smallest straw and I won to go to the game with my dad so you know I was happy I got to go upstairs and change I remember long story short. it’s it’s raining he drives home from work picks me up. We drive into Manhattan which was always like. Like still just I still remember it so vividly and we get to the garden and I’m thinking we have these great seats see. We’re gonna have a great time and we’re walking up and it just we don’t stop up and up. We have the highest seats in in the whole garden. And you know as I was ten years old it didn’t matter where we were sitting but I wasn’t expected to be in the nosebleed section and so we have a great time I remember at that time there was a restaurant called ranch one and that was like a. 03:57.94Craig Chicken finger place and that’s all I ever wanted. It was ranch one chicken fingers and they gave you french fries and they served it in a big cup overflow with fries. So I got my ranch one and during halftime my dad points down to celebrity row which at that time was a. Still is a big deal but it was a big deal spike Lee and Bill Murray and he points down to celebrity where says Craig do you see that guy down there and I said dad we’re so high I I can’t see anything. He says the guy who’s sitting at the courts. That’s my friend. 04:27.86vigorbrandingSure and. 04:35.80Craig And I sat to him I said well if he’s sitting on the courts I Want to go meet it and he said I don’t know if we’ll make it down in time but let’s try so we hurried downstairs. We try to get to the court before the buzzard you know goes off that halftime’s over. 04:44.31vigorbrandingUm. 04:52.12Craig And we’re we’re blocked by the velvet rope to get through to the very bottom of the court and my dad’s yelling and he’s saying Allen Allen this guy Allen turned around and waves to my dad and ultimately tells the usher. He’s safe. You could let him in. And so I go down and I’m standing on the court of madison square garden and I’m like this is unbelievable. This is incredible. The ball comes to me I catch the ball and I’m just you know just in like all so the you know halftime ends I shake this gentleman Allen’s hand I say thank you so much and. We walk all the way back up to our top row seats you want me to keep going I mean there’s a lita and so we finished the game. We have the best time and the next day Allen calls my dad and he says Rob he says you never told me that. 05:44.23vigorbrandingOh yeah, it’s awesome. It’s great. 05:47.52Craig Craig was such a precocious young. You know great kid and my dad said well I didn’t know it never came up I forgot to tell you them and so he says I want to give you tickets to the game to take the family and you know you guys can have our seats a couple weeks. Go by. We get the tickets. Keep in mind there’s 5 people to our family three kids and mom and dad and alan from what I was told was the only guy who had 4 tickets on celebrity row. Everybody else had 2 and now this is back in the day so we we go to a restaurant we eat dinner. 06:07.85vigorbrandingAh. 06:24.80vigorbrandingUm. 06:26.27Craig And then we go to Madison square garden now remember with 4 Seats my dad puts my little sister on his shoulders and says Sarah pretend like you know they can’t see you and somehow gets us in and 5 of us sat on 4 seats on celebrity row unbelievable. It was like. Those things don’t happen anymore and and so we have an amazing time and the high fiving the players it was it was memorable. Okay, fast forward I’m in the sixth grade the same year that this happened and I have to do a career report. 06:49.20vigorbrandingBut that’s great. Yeah now. 07:01.79Craig What do you want to be when you grow up and so I go home and you know one of the things that we were so passionate about as a family is we always had dinner together as a family came around food. Maybe that comes full circle and my I say to my dad I said I said dad I said ah. 07:12.67vigorbrandingUm. 07:20.82Craig Ms Collins gave us a report.. What do you want to be when you grow Up. He says oh do you want to be a doctor like me I said no I said I want to be like the guy who has the tickets at the Nick game. What does that Guy. Do. Oh to make money and so he says well remember that restaurant that we went to before the game I said yeah, he said well he owns that restaurant I said all I fine when I grew up my career report’s going to be restaurant owner and I did the career report and I was 10 and. 07:47.48vigorbrandingI Want to I want to make money. Yeah. 07:56.70vigorbrandingAh. 07:59.17Craig I don’t know if that was a good thing or a bad thing but here we are today. 08:06.33Craig No relation. Yeah yeah, so I don’t know so he didn’t he didn’t he wasn’t the founder. You know I think Arnie Morton and the morton family founded it but he ultimately became the you know chairman Ceo of the business I think around store 6 or 7 08:16.26vigorbrandingThat’s awesome and of course the report was about ah Alan Bernstein no relation to you it just happens on the same last name and he is the founder of mortons is that correct. 08:25.24Craig And you know gruident you know I think the household name that that everybody knows today. 08:30.15vigorbrandingAh, okay. 08:33.23vigorbrandingYeah, he ran it. Okay. 08:40.51Craig Almost goingus. Yeah. 08:41.26vigorbrandingSo you wrote this report that you wanted to be this restaurantauur and we actually had a copy that report in a little bit I’m going to ask you some of the questions that you asked Allen in your report and see if you if you feel that those questions still hold water today if you would answer them differently. Okay. 08:53.39Craig Yeah I mean the whole way I mean he really? um you know he he really transformed my life to a certain extent I mean you know I went to Emory University in Atlanta and I started you know business and entrepreneurship and I got into some little groups of. 08:57.68vigorbrandingUm, so anyway, so the relationship with Alan continues after that meeting he was he was like a mentor to you through your college years is that correct want to talk a little bit about that and that relationship. 09:10.73Craig Just you know the entrepreneurial idea when I was in college I worked on a business plan to open a restaurant in emory village and the the concept was called Bernie’s New York Delhi and you know I would float this idea by Alan and other people but I was always pitching you know I mean I always was like. 09:16.55vigorbrandingAh. 09:30.32Craig Who wants in and as a 20 year old kid. Um, nobody really wanted in I mean a little little you know little bites here and there but but nothing like we were ultimately able to to secure in the future. 09:41.52vigorbrandingUm, no. 09:44.55Craig And so you know Alan really changed my life. You know ultimately I went on to work for Houston’s hillstone restaurant group and you know Alan really drove me to to go pursue that he didn’t have any you know relations or um introductions to make but he did say. You know it’s such a highly regarded bestin class restaurant company and if I could get my foot in the door there. Um, that would really be an incredible foundation to becoming a restaurant manager and ultimately I followed his advice and through that advice. Um. I got into that company and another quick story after I was with Houstons I remember Alllan called me and he said we’re opening up a 5 guys burgers Alllan became a big franchisor of a franchisee of of 5 guys and he said you have to come I said Alan I’m working I can’t he said you have to come you have to come. I drove to this opening of 5 guys in Queens New York and I go when I was there for maybe like 30 minutes and I said I have to go he said just sit down shut up I have somebody coming. You need to meet I said all right fine and so I waited I waited I waited all of a sudden David Overton 10:44.87vigorbrandingAh. 10:55.57Craig The you know chairman founder of cheesecake factory comes in and I had lunch with Alan Bernstein David Overton Mrs. Overton and we’re eating burgers fries and hot dogs at the opening of 5 guys burgers in queens. 11:08.28vigorbrandingYeah. 11:12.50Craig And I mean these stories where I share them. They just give me chills I mean nothing came of it except just to hear these industry Titans talk about the restaurant business and these are memories that I’ll never forget. 11:38.18vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. You know I get to in this podcast I get to talk to a lot of founders. A lot of entrepreneurs which of course you’re one and they always have unique stories and they’re they’re always like um, what’s intriguing to me is a lot of times. They’re not just things weren’t just handed to to you or to them. Or to any of us. There was a lot of hustle involved right? A lot lot of struggle. A lot of lot of grit and I always I love that about the about the industry and about the entrepreneurs side of this I they say it’s super cool I know you know Alan taught you a lot about hospitality. Um, you know and the importance of hospitality in a restaurant you know. 12:04.80Craig Well, you know listen we we transformed our business from you know, a more fast casual although it was ah an elevated fast casual experience into a full-service you know, dining atmosphere and. 12:13.42vigorbrandingAnd today’s era of of quick service is hospitality dying art. 12:19.43Craig You know everything from you know, hostesses up front to full service at at the tables to more expansive bars. Um elevated management teams um team members in the kitchen who could execute a little bit of a higher quality food food offering. 12:38.90Craig And so I think for for me and for us the the idea of hospitality and really going above and beyond for every guest experience was always really innate into the philosophy of the business and. So I think that for for us. We were always a little bit more on the elevated side and that’s why we we transferred to the full service I mean we were able to make greater connections be at the tables longer walk guest to tables and really kind of see the thing. 13:03.60vigorbrandingFrom here. 13:14.40Craig From the start to the middle to the end with this above and beyond um gesture of hospitality and I think that’s really what was like ingrained in me I mean anytime I would ever go to Morton’s with Alan you know it was every dessert on the table. Every appetizer on the table. And even after you had every dessert he was like you gotta try this other one. That’s not yet on the menu and you gotta taste it put Allen I’m full. Ah you could. You could take 1 more bite and that’s really you know how how we how we run the business I’ll tell you 1 quick story about hospitality. Um, you know I was. 13:43.98vigorbrandingHe. 13:51.56Craig I started the the first restaurant and died in Chicago in the Gold Coast neighborhood about ten and a half years ago and I was in the restaurant every single day I mean morning tonight and I got to really create amazing relationships with so many spectacular guests as the business has expanded. 14:05.64vigorbrandingBut. 14:09.52Craig I can’t be in every restaurant every day and but those connections are everlasting so one day I think it might have been during covid so you know twenty twenty I’m sitting outside and a guest walks into place in order and she recognizes me. She says oh my goodness I haven’t seen you in so long and I’m so proud of you. We were your first guest in this whole thing and she sort of started to tear up and I said what’s the matter she said you know my husband has since passed away and we used to always come here every Friday night. And we would always come here and we would get pizza and we used to serve pizza and and you no longer have pizza and I said oh my goodness I said you know what I’m going to do for you tonight. We’re going to make you a pizza and I was sitting there with my chef and we found you know dough. We made her pizza. And so it’s like you know those types of connections and relationships I mean that’s really why we got into this business in the first place and to make somebody so happy from pizza dough and marinara and fresh mozzarella. 15:17.00vigorbrandingA. 15:21.29Craig You You can’t do that in any other walk of life so to be able to have those types of connections and that type of special relationship. You know I would trade this for nothing. 15:34.50vigorbrandingYeah, um. 15:43.32vigorbrandingYeah, yeah I mean food is love and it’s ah it’s a great way to connect with people and you know a lot of people’s best memories are revolve around food. You were saying earlier about your your family always ate dinner together. It’s sort of a law start unto itself. But. 15:49.28Craig Yeah, yeah, big big time. 15:57.17vigorbrandingIt’s just ah, it’s a wonderful part of life and it’s it’s something that you know we we all cherish and it it really does evoke a lot of great memories. That’s for sure So when when you started now you have this full-serce restaurant you really you really weren’t planning on that. 16:05.33Craig Yeah, so you know what I worked um so I worked for Houstons and I grew up to become a general manager with them and during my tenure. You know you started to see and this was in the in the sort of 2007 2008 2009 16:11.69vigorbrandingRight? At at first it was not it was more of ah of a digital menu right? Fast casual kind of concept. 16:21.96Craig And you started to see people come in and place orders at the bar cheeseburgers, chicken salads, ribs and get the food delivered on a plate and then ask for a box and take it to go with them. And at the time we weren’t doing at least that that company delivery pickup to go. It didn’t exist and so as an entrepreneur I mean you know in 1920 years old I was trying to build a restaurant called Bernie’s deli 16:48.62vigorbrandingSee. 16:52.24Craig Ah, was always thinking about you know what could we? What could be the first concept that we we try to create and so the idea was how do you take casual dining and turn it into an order at the counter. Um service experience sort of think A. Panera bread but on steroids so digital menu boards and we had Gps table trackers and I think the one saving grace that that ah that we implemented is we had a full liquor wine beer program at the restaurant and we had a bar component. 17:24.32vigorbrandingFool. 17:28.25Craig Where you could get full service at the bar or you can go order at the counter sit down at the table and then the service team would sort of take care of everything else. Drink refills catch up run your food bust your tables things like that and what we noticed is. Guest would walk in and they would say hey you see that menu over there at the bar go bring me that menu and you know come take my order at the table and I’m being a little facetious the way that they they spoke but not so far off. And and ultimately you know it was through having this hybrid model right? from the get go. We trained the service team to have elevated service points. We had a full liquor program. We had full service at the bar so we weren’t just one 1 or 1 or nothing. 18:06.32vigorbrandingUm, sure. Yeah. 18:16.87Craig We sort of had all these little things going so long story short We we started to take orders at the table. We started to notice that more people preferred at least in our restaurant that model and what I thought was this amazing entrepreneurial innovative idea. 18:29.61vigorbrandingFrom who. 18:35.80Craig Take casual restaurant food and serve it in it to go order at the counter environment. You know we we soon realized that you know most people again for us in the gup coast neighborhood of Chicago wanted to sit down be taken care of but also have a ah casual go to spot. Where they could dine with us multiple times a week 19:07.50vigorbrandingYeah, well I mean that’s it’s smart and customers. They vote with their mouths right? They’re going to you got to follow them and what their their needs are and their wants are and you have to evolve and and roll with the punches and and and change your model if you need be That’s ah, that’s very very smart. 19:19.00Craig Ah, very true would I Just think that I’m just like a regular a regular guck you know and like sometimes I’m in the mood for fried chicken Sometimes I’m in the mood for a salad sometimes I’m in the mood for a fried chicken sandwich. So I think. 19:21.33vigorbrandingI have ah I’m going to jump on a side here. It’s kind of funny because one of the things I read about you you know I’m sitting here saying you have to like listen to the customers and listen to what their needs are but your menus based on your on your favorite things isn’t it. 19:36.81Craig You know the menu is really built around something for everyone any day of the week whatever they’re in the mood for and you know so far I think my taste buds align with the most people you know we’re operating now in 5 states and so. 19:42.21vigorbrandingYeah, ah. 19:55.54Craig So I think it’s it’s resonating. Yes, so we have 10 restaurants and um, yeah, it’s it’s an exciting time. You know it’s sort of like slow and steady growth. You know, not just growing for growth sake but really trying to get great real estate grow organically um. 20:07.40vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. How many locations total. Okay, fantastic. 20:14.76Craig Grow from within build the team from within I mean we have people on our team from day one and I mean when you look back and you see ah an opening line cook from our kitchen now running the kitchen of our first restaurant I mean that’s like you can’t you can’t beat that. 20:20.10vigorbrandingGreat. Um. 20:33.85Craig Amazing. 20:41.26vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you got to feel good about that. So one of the things I think is really interesting. Is you know we talk about these you know the dock bees and or any kind of a restaurant and and the and the main thing about a restaurant I Know it’s not a franchise. It’s all they’re all owned by you. But. 20:50.86Craig Yeah I mean I don’t know if it’s a good thing or a bad thing but it certainly makes my architect you know, happy to to build. But no, you know I think I think what it is is you know we’re constantly trying to. 20:58.22vigorbrandingThey typically want to resemble the same look and feel. So yeah that that consists Ram your decor, an atmosphere for each location is a bit different. Can you talk about that and the thinking behind that. 21:09.95Craig Innovate and think outside the box and you know we’re we’re traveling looking at what other restaurants and other people in the hospitality whether it’s hotels whether it’s fast casual whether it’s full service. You know it’s all these different visual cues that. You know we’re constantly looking to incorporate into how we can make our restaurants better. So I think the the architecture and the atmospheres in the layouts are generated more around. We don’t have a cookie cutter box. So. Each restaurant some are four Thousand Square feet some are six Thousand Square feet some are in lifestyle centers some are in general mall some are in urban downtown markets and so the the atmosphere sort of forces us. 21:45.48vigorbrandingWho. 22:00.68Craig Have to look at each buildout just a little bit different so that patios that then how do you incorporate that into the dining room and and and so I think it’s it’s it’s we still haven’t figured out exactly who we are. You know what I sort of say all the time is you know? and and I say this. 22:15.31vigorbrandingYou hear. 22:19.13Craig Somewhat facetiously I know the last chapter of our book I just don’t know all the pages between today and then and so we’re still telling our story. We’re writing our story. We. We’re constantly looking and saying what can we do? better. How do we make our kitchens a little bit bigger without sacrificing dining space. So again, a little long winded but the the architecture is more predicated on constantly trying to be better operationally and then that turns into aesthetically. 22:38.58vigorbrandingYou Yeah, they go. 22:54.46Craig You know, something different for for each and every store. 22:54.73vigorbrandingUm. 22:59.18Craig Yeah, but that goes back to also you know like we we have this we have this menu item ah in Indianapolis which one which is our most recent restaurant. It’s called killer grill trip. So amazing. It’s awesome. It has nothing to do with Indianapolis and so you know sometimes people will say well. 23:07.66vigorbrandingAnd the menus a little different depending on the location too correct. 23:18.14Craig You know the menu caters to the local clientele. Yes, and no I think all of our food caters to the local clientele. It’s it’s straightforward. You know, casual American themed themed restaurant. But I think again, it’s more about this innovation. 23:28.10vigorbrandingUm, and who is. 23:36.24Craig Putting our chefs to work constantly exploring new taste buds and and trying also as we’ve gotten bigger to overlap use of product so that we’re not bringing in just 1 item for 1 menu but really trying to see if we can expand upon it. So The menu is also about constant curation of um tasting trying and ultimately it makes it onto to new bad news. 24:08.54Craig Yeah, for well yeah, there’s there’s 14 day parts in a week and you could you could test me but I’ve been there I’ve done it and I still haven’t gotten sick of it. Yeah, but you should watch us at a tasting it tasing is fun to watch because. 24:15.95vigorbrandingAnd as long as you like it because I think you said in 1 of your articles you you could eat there fourteen days in a row or something like that. Okay, yeah. 24:27.43Craig You know what tastes right? to 1 person you taste off to another and it’s just so funny how you get into all the intricacies and just try to make the best product possible. 24:34.15vigorbrandingAh, that’s great. Let’s fantastic. Um, what? oh yeah, yeah. 24:41.91Craig Yeah I mean you know the the costs are certainly you know continue to Rise and I think our business. It’s certainly a for profit business. Don’t get me wrong, but because we have a long horizon on how we. 24:50.12vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. What do you think is the best or the best The biggest challenge facing restaurants these days. What are you seeing is the biggest challenge. 25:01.35Craig Look at the the company as a whole I think we could be a little bit more patient but you know the the costs continue to go up and you know we don’t just take price just because everybody else is and sort of keep up with those rising costs the wages. 25:06.40vigorbrandingE no. 25:19.76Craig Construction costs the the the day parts of delivery versus dine in work from home versus coming to the office all of those I think are real challenges I mean when you when you look at the business as a whole you’re just constantly competing with. 25:24.48vigorbrandingIn here. 25:39.59Craig With your next door neighbor and we don’t want to cut costs just to get more bodies inside of the restaurant. We really want to maintain our integrity. We want to maintain our value on the plate. We don’t want to trim down on. The the quality or the specs that we offer and so I think what we’re blessed with is this long horizon but the the costs right now are definitely the most challenging part of our business. 26:01.47vigorbrandingMoon. 26:22.26vigorbrandingYeah I mean that that makes an awful lot of sense. Sorry, let’s have some fun. So ah, back to your your sixth grade. Ah, ah you meet Alan Bernstein and you write a report. Okay and it’s for school. 26:24.60Craig I Mostly gotten help from my mom there. 26:34.10vigorbrandingAh, you interviewed Allen in the report and you asked them really I’ll say some really incredible questions I’ll say for a 12 year old it was good. In fact, there are better questions. Ah okay, that’s a good mom right there and I would say there’ are actually better questions that I’m asking you so I mean but yeah, you got lots of credit for that or your mom does I should say. 26:34.66Craig Yeah. 26:50.14vigorbrandingSo um, I’m going to ask you the same questions and and I want to see I mean let’s see if you answer them the same way that Allen answered them in his ah in his ah ah in his answers in the report. So the modern day you let’s go when you hire a manager and people ah to work for for you. What do you look for. 26:55.12Craig Yeah, you know number 1 is genuine friendliness I mean one of the pillars of our company is genuine hospitality and I think the way somebody presents themselves and um, the. The truthfulness in the way that they engage it really tells everything we can teach you how to run one of our restaurants we can put you through our sixteen week training program and teach you all the different intricacies from the kitchen to the front of house but genuine friendliness is. Is something that can’t be taught. 27:45.59vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Allen’s answer was very very similar and it’s’s I think it’s it’s dead on because I would do this all day long up and down I look for attitude. This is what he said and the ability to communicate and I get such a huge thing I taught my kids I mean my my daughters. The 1 thing I got instilled in them. Ah, being very young I said look you got to look people in the eye. You’ve got to talk to them. Don’t be afraid tell them what you think just be sincere and communication skills are are huge. All right next question at what point did you know to expand now you asked this of Allen and I’ll see what the. 28:06.55Craig Yeah, yeah, you know the the business the business model always was to have more than one. Um, so store 2 for example in Chicago we signed that lease before store one opened. 28:20.29vigorbrandingBut your answer would be. 28:22.40Craig And that was probably the most dangerous part of the whole business because store one if I could tell you the war stories that we had there would be unbelievable. So I think we knew to expand once we got store 1 and 2 under under our our footing. 28:33.40vigorbrandingWow. 28:41.40Craig And we felt like the team was able to grow from within and we were able to start promoting hourly employees to managers managers to general managers general managers to new Store Openers and so I think the the growth from within from a people standpoint. I think put us in ah in a confident position to start growing the business. 29:12.63Craig Um, and keep in mind he was swapping to a 10 year old 29:14.10vigorbrandingVery good. His answer was because I had a plan for how many to build so sometimes sometimes that could be revisionist history right? Like you know he’s just giving you like he’s 1 word like these little short sentence answers. It sounded pretty like he had all figured out. Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. 29:21.10Craig Um, yeah, yeah and I did gain about 60 stores at the time by then. 29:28.50Craig Yeah I’ll show you my American Airlines travel app you know we’re traveling we’re we’re in the restaurants we’re we’re engaging with the team. We’re engaging with guests. We’re doing. You know we’re doing constant evaluations on food and service. 29:30.25vigorbrandingBut I think he’s trying to impress you by the the way he’s throwing these these answers down. So how do you maintain? How do you maintain the quality of all your restaurants. 29:48.29Craig But I think that’s a little bit. You know it sort of comes from um you know, really trying to give the general managers ownership of their restaurants and so even if we’re in 1 restaurant today. We’re still not in 8 other restaurants and if we’re we’re in 1 store. 29:48.57vigorbrandingAh. 30:07.81Craig And so I think it really comes down to letting the general managers you know own their business operate it like it was their 4 walls and you know we we do a lot of follow ups. We try to give them the tools to be successful. Um, but ultimately I think the. 30:09.19vigorbrandingAre 8 30:26.20Craig The the businesses is as successful as the people who who run them and that’s really where we spend a lot of time and emphasis. Um on trying to grow. 30:41.70Craig Ah, well I think what’s fun about my job is you can have a ah day that is the easiest day in the world and everything is just moving right? along and nothing comes up and then you can have another day where it seems like nothing’s going right. 30:45.10vigorbrandingUm, yeah, that’s excellent, all right? So how challenging is your job. 30:59.40Craig And so I think the the job is gonna always ebb and flow. Um, it’s gonna always have peaks and valleys I think the the what I try to focus on now is not getting you know too far deep into the valleys and let that. 1 instant Trump or overshadow all the positives that we have going on so the the job is challenging. But I think any job is challenging and and I think our our job is equally rewarding. 31:32.76vigorbrandingIn here. 31:34.28Craig For as challenging as it is and we can go to a restaurant and we could see all the smiling faces and we can see all the repeat guests that we’re so privileged to serve and I think seeing that in real time helps to offset. Maybe some of the challenges that you know running running restaurants come with. 31:52.75vigorbrandingIn who. 32:00.47Craig Ah, ah, ah. 32:04.11vigorbrandingYeah, yeah, that’s great. That’s great. Allan answered that by my job is very challenging because I’m always trying to be on the top’ ah, that’s great. That’s great. You know and but you know with some of the things you say my. My family’s always had restaurants. My brother-in-law ah runs a restaurant now in ah in a small town in Pennsylvania and it’s sort of like the it’s sort of like the community center of the town and to me it’s it’s kind of really cool. In fact, so much so that he put up pictures black and white photographs from the old town. Historical picture. So people who come in and look at them and as crazy as it sounds. It’s the same people like night after night night after night they’re in there regularly, some people are in there every day some people are in there like once a week on the same night. They eat the same things. It’s just like I don’t know it’s it’s a really unique thing and and boy if you can get that. 32:57.48Craig Yeah, no to to totally I mean I think I think for us, you know we’re trying to you know again as we write our story and and you know history will be able to look back and determine Ultimately what type of restaurant we created. But I think. 32:57.68vigorbrandingAnd get that kind of patronage. It’s just a wonderful thing and they’re all like friends and it’s just it’s just wild you end up like you said you take care of these folks and you you treat them right? and and they have a great experience and it just becomes ah a part of their life. It’s pretty cool, pretty cool. 33:13.30Craig You know the the goal is to kind of be the the community neighborhood restaurant with some you know chain systems that make the experience consistent from visit to visit and and I think if we can do that and go into these markets. 33:14.71vigorbrandingYou know. 33:25.27vigorbrandingUm. 33:28.63vigorbrandingE. 33:32.37Craig And be a place where the community can come after soccer games on the weekends and come after graduations and come for date night or come with the family I mean those are the types of memories that ultimately growing up. We always went to. The local restaurant for different experiences each time if Doc Bees can become that consistently. Um in each location that we have I think that you know that that’s ultimately what I think our mission is is inevitably going to be. 34:05.20vigorbranding3 34:18.24Craig Yeah, yeah, well I’ll say this way I know nothing else. So I my only answer is yes you know what what I try not to do now is I I don’t try to get caught up so much in the everyday. 34:19.68vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. So the last question in your question for him and I’m going to answer it that and you can I want to know your answer if you could start all over would you stay in the same business and and of course ah Alan said yes I love it. What’s your answer Greg. 34:35.27Craig Because I think if you get caught up in the everyday you can become overwhelmed I mean the the daily grind of business in general and specifically the restaurant business can definitely overwhelm somebody and so what I try really now to do is be be a couple of. 34:46.17vigorbrandingWho. 34:53.75Craig Couple of steps ahead and think about you know where we’re trying to go with the business and the growth and the team be thankful for the past and all of those experiences ah have got us to hear and so my answer is yes I would do it all over again. Just sometimes wish that you know the the lessons that I’m now learning 10 years into it came a little earlier and I’m sure in ten more years I’ll wish what I know then I thought about now and just to kind of get through some of the more challenging days. 35:14.83vigorbrandingRight? well. 35:23.30vigorbrandingIt’s awesome. 35:33.83Craig Yeah, the next restaurant is under construction in Carry North Carolina which is adjacent to Raleigh in the Durham area. Super excited about it. It’s a new lifestyle center called Fenton and I think um, you know’s it’s it’s going to thrive and in that again. 35:39.20vigorbrandingYeah, yeah, no doubt So what’s next for duck bees. Any new markets anything new and exciting coming up. 35:49.42Craig Neighborhood community environment and then from there you know, sort of like slow and steady wins the race you know one 2 restaurants a year looking across across the country where we think what we know has worked up until this point can. 35:51.23vigorbrandingUm, yeah. 36:01.37vigorbrandingMe. 36:07.92Craig Hit the repeat button and work again, you know it’s amazing. The the people and the team and the real estate is really the recipe for success and if we can get those 2 things right over and over and over. 36:08.61vigorbrandingYeah. 36:17.70vigorbrandingLike. 36:24.37Craig I Think we’re gonna have a really successful business on our hands. Yeah. 36:38.96Craig You know I wish I could give you some like crazy over the top like grand answer for that. But the truth is I would have 2 slices of New York pizza and I’d have it served with a Coca-cola. 36:40.19vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. No no, no argument there all right? So your very last question. Okay and can’t be your restaurant even though I know you love your food. Ah if you had 1 final meal. What would you eat and why. 36:56.36Craig And I would go to any pizzerie in New York city it doesn’t need to be Joe’s or John’s or Rays could be anywhere I’d sit at the counter I’d take some greasy ah parmesan cheese and red chillli flake and poured on my two slice of pizza and. 37:10.21vigorbrandingYeah e. 37:13.60Craig I would be in heaven. And how I old in Chicago so I hope I don’t get out. 37:19.59vigorbrandingUm, yeah, it’s not a bad answer me and I’ll tell you there’s something about New York pizza that’s tough to beat. So listen I yeah yeah, right. 37:26.84Craig There. 37:37.23vigorbrandingAnd they do that fixed off you know I like a nice nice thin New York pizza you know so hey Craig you were awesome I really appreciate this. It was a lot of fun I mean obviously I never got to meet your father but I can tell you I know he’d be really proud of this and it’s a shame. He didn’t get to see. 37:40.42Craig That’s very small. 37:47.22Craig Thank you for having me Michael this was great. 37:52.30vigorbrandingWhat you’ve created and and and even Allen I mean it would Allen I’m sure would just be thrilled to death so that’s that’s all great stuff. Thank you? So so much for your time I really enjoyed talking to you all right? buddy.