The Reader and the Writer

Welcome to our final episode of Lila, by Marilynne Robinson. In this episode, Rhea and Shari discuss Lila as the ultimate Love Story. They talk about John’s sermon, seeing from the position of your future rather than your “deserving” or your “guilt. They talk about marriage as a prayer and baptism as a fact. They discuss the continued objects made image—the knife!—and the ways in which the entire novel itself is an imaging witness to the idea that the “medium is the message.” For our paying subscribers, look for the final outline to post later this week. For this final outline, we’ve loaded it with extra journaling prompts, discussion questions, links, and even some impromptu free-writing thoughts and connections within the discussion topics themselves. As mentioned at the top of the episode, for the rest of 2026 we will be featuring poetry by Wendell Berry. Our poems will focus from Berry’s collection The Peace of Wild Things. However, we will also include selections that can be found online with Poetry Foundation, or other proper copyrighted sites. So, whether or not you secure a copy of Berry’s collection for yourself, you can listen and be a part of the conversation!R&W schedule for the rest of 2026:* November 17th: Wendell Berry poetry* November 24th: no episode - Happy Thanksgiving!* December 1st: Wendell Berry poetry* December 8th: Big Draw Episode! (where we draw and decide our books for 2028)* December 15th: Wendell Berry Poetry* December 22nd & 29th: no episodes - Merry Christmas!* December 31st: Year in Review episodeThanks so much for listening to this final episode of Lila! If you liked this episode, please ❤️ it and restack it so others can enjoy it and find The Reader & the Writer, too. The Reader & the Writer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our literary work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to The Reader & the Writer at thereaderandthewriter.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome back to Lila, by Marilynne Robinson. In this episode, Rhea and Shari discuss the way Robinson frames moments in scene for us through Lila’s eyes, and how these scenes give deeper meaning to the story as a whole. They talk about the many repeating objects that turn into images by the way Lila “sees” them in ways that make them “mean something.” Finally, they spend time noticing the braided narrative and the way this structure is facilitating the Great Conversation happening throughout the story. Link to Ekphrastic Writing essay Shari wrote and mentioned in the episode:Here is the link to Rhea’s reading guide to Lila:If you liked this podcast episode, please restack it so others can experience Lila!Other Lila posts you might find interesting:Thanks for listening to this episode of The Reader & the Writer! If you liked this episode, please ❤️ it, restack it, and share it with your friends.The Reader & the Writer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our literary work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to The Reader & the Writer at thereaderandthewriter.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome back to Lila, by Marilynne Robinson! In this episode, Shari and Rhea discuss Lila and the “likeness of…” things, her continual questioning of the meaning of events, and the worthiness of existence—you know, just the regular old mundane things of everyday (!). They continue to consider Lila as a narrator, and how her unreliability is becoming more and more transparent, and thus more and more transforming. They talk about the growing intimacy between John and Lila, physical touch as sacramental, and the beauty of this novel as a love story. Finally, they discuss the way Robinson is a master of “making it strange.” That is, helping us see the actual miracle and mystery in what we’ve come to take for granted; and at the same time bringing what is strange and mysterious and seemingly unfathomable into a proximity that allows us to draw near.Be sure to look through Rhea’s reading guide for Lila here:If you missed last week’s episode, you can listen to it here: If you are a paid subscriber, you can find the outline for Lila | Part 1 below. Even if you aren’t a paying subscriber, you can read my thoughts on Lila | Part 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of The Reader & the Writer! If you liked this episode, please ❤️ it, restack it, and share it with others you know who love a story that “makes it strange”, like you.The Reader & the Writer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our literary work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to The Reader & the Writer at thereaderandthewriter.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome to Lila, by Marilynne Robinson! In this episode Rhea and Shari spend a long time situating themselves in Lila’s story: the zooming in and out of the narrative distance, Lila as our narrator, her own distancing of herself from her story, her reliability as a narrator, and more. They talk about what Lila’s character is revealing about the story’s conflict, and its already developing themes. They discuss Lila’s relationships: those of her past that have shaped her present. They notice the vast number of references to water and baptism, and the Great Conversation bubbling up from beneath the surface. Same with stories and storytelling. Connect with us on Substack, to read and listen to more good stuff from R&W: thereaderandthewriter.substack.comAs mentioned at the top of the episode:Send us a message on Substack, or email us at: [email protected] to let us know what books you’d love to read with R&W in 2027!In case you missed it, here is the reading schedule for Lila:* October 20: pages 3-68* October 27: pages 68-132* November 3: pages 132-198* November 10: 199-261If you liked this post, please restack it; share it to Notes! It sure helps The Reader & the Writer find more amazing readers like you. :)Thanks for listening to this episode of The Reader & the Writer! If you liked this post, please ❤️ it and share it with others; on Substack and beyond!The Reader & the Writer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our literary work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to The Reader & the Writer at thereaderandthewriter.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome to our final episode of Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea! In this episode, Rhea and Shari try to make sense of the story’s ending by “reading like a writer,” so, as Virginia Woof says, they can “get the right end of the string.” They discuss all the ways the ending was problematic for them, and then took all those problems and considered them more closely. They examine the “argument” Verne seems to be having throughout the novel (What is the highest good?), and how this is expressed through Nemo and Arronax in the end. They talk about the narrative as presenting us with a world at once “scientifically verifiable and stable,” and undercutting that stability through narrative that Arronax presents us in his storytelling. They discuss the two Great Conversations Twenty Thousand Leagues is having: one with Virgil’s Aeneid, and the other with the Teacher of Ecclesiastes. Finally, they tease out the difference between a character’s vision and the story’s vision; and wonder how the writer behind them may be asking us to grapple with their contradictory meanings. If you’ve been reading Twenty Thousand Leagues along with us, HIGH FIVE!! You did it! Well done, good and faithful reader. ;-) We are so thankful you stuck it out with us these thousands of leagues under the sea. If you are a paying subscriber, look for this week’s show outline to post later this week. This one is full of really great information; to include all of Ecclesiastes 7, and a detailed summary of Aeneas’s wanderings. Our next deep read is Lila, by Marilynne Robinson. We will be reading it over the next four weeks. Here is the breakdown (Note: there are no chapters, thus the page breakdown):* Episode 1 | October 20th: pp. 3-68* Episode 2 | October 27th: pp. 68-132* Episode 3 | November 3rd: pp. 132-198 (end of page)* Episode 4 | November 10th: pp. 199-261As always, thanks so much for reading and contemplating with us. We love to hear from you, so send us a message or offer a comment below. Let us know what you thought of the end of Twenty Thousand Leagues! And, if you liked this episode, please consider re-stacking it so others can enjoy it, too! Thanks for listening to this episode of The Reader & the Writer! This post is public so feel free to ❤️ it and share it with deep readers like you!The Reader & the Writer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our literary work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to The Reader & the Writer at thereaderandthewriter.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome back to Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea! In this episode, Rhea and Shari discuss the levels of conflict continuing to thicken and boil over toward climax. They talk about Shari’s essay from last week on Verne’s use of scientific language and the affect it has on both their reading experience and ultimate understanding of the story’s meaning. They take close notice of those moments of extreme splendor that are also lead to extreme horror. They talk about storytelling and Verne’s wink to the storyteller’s use of the fragment of reality to create a fantastical but still viable fictional world. They agree with Ned Land that there are some things too beautiful, too fantastic… beyond what our eyes are meant to see.For our paying subscribers, the outline for Episode 6 will come out later this week.Thanks for listening to this episode of The Reader & the Writer! If you liked this episode ❤️ it and share it with other splendid friends like you!The Reader & the Writer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our literary work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to The Reader & the Writer at thereaderandthewriter.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome to our first episode in R&W’s Harry Potter series! In this episode, Shari and Rhea discuss Book One: Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone. They talk about story status quo, inciting incidents, and how the characters move on from there. They talk about the narrator, trustworthiness, and what is revealed by our narrator’s sorta-omniscient, reporter-like style. They look at the multiple layers of the story’s meaning, hidden in plain sight. They discuss genre: fairy tales, gothic romance, mysteries, and orphan tales. They wonder about the over-the-top Dursleys and characters that are caricatures. They talk about the Sorting Hat (which House are you in?), our reasoning v. what the hat sees, wands that choose the wizard, scars that can come in useful, centaurs that know much more than they’re saying—both mysterious and aloof to humans, but unwilling to see one perish, too. They discuss chess and sacrifice, two-faced professors, doppelgängers, connections to the Great Story, and how Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone is very much a story that is setting the stage; situating us in this magnificent wizarding world.If you are a paying subscriber, you will find both Rhea’s excellent chapter by chapter notes, and the show outline (broken down by the four medieval ways into meaning, with definitions, references, quotes, and links) underneath “Additional Resources” on R&W’s Harry Potter page. We have kept them as two separate documents. We hope you find them both helpful as you dive deep into Harry Potter by yourself or in conversation others.Time to start reading Book Two: Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets! Expect the next Harry Potter episode to air November 6th.Thanks for listening to this episode of The Reader & the Writer! If you liked this episode show it some ❤️ and share it with other muggles and any wizards you might know, too!The Reader & the Writer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our literary work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to The Reader & the Writer at thereaderandthewriter.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome back to Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea, by Jules’ Verne. In this episode, Rhea and Shari discuss the conflicting visions the story is continuing to present as we travel with Nemo and his captors. They talk about the ways this “enigmatic Nemo” is beginning more and more to rhyme with the “complicated Odysseus” (a liberator in the inverse? Hmmm… something to consider). They touch on the continuing conversation this story seems to be having about freedom v. knowledge, and wonder about how the story of the mythical Atlantis might be a way we can consider the meaning of the story Verne is trying to tell. And, they confess all the ways they are done with Verne’s excessive use of scientific language. Is it truly essential to the full telling of this story? Is it creating a more cohesive tale? Or fraying it at the edges? Only time, and more thousands of leagues under the sea will tell! For our paid subscribers: the outline for Episode 5 will drop later this week.For all our readers, let us know what you think about Nemo! Is he a great liberator? Or great hypocrite??Thanks for listening to this episode of The Reader & the Writer! If you liked this episode, ❤️ it and share it with some enigmatic friends you know.The Reader & the Writer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our literary work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to The Reader & the Writer at thereaderandthewriter.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome back to Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea by Jules Verne. In this episode Rhea and Shari have an extensive conversation about the developing, centering conflict framing the narrative; the conflict underneath it; and whether or not these two conflicts can be separate from one another. They discuss the several significant biblical allusions in this section and wonder how these might be informing the ultimate meaning of the story. They admit their late realization as to what “twenty thousand leagues” is actually referring. And, after meandering around in conversation of to seemingly disparate concerns, they land upon a question that might be at the center of what this story is ultimately saying.For paying members, look for the outline to come out later this week.Thanks for listening to this episode of The Reader & the Writer! If you liked what you heard, show it some ❤️ and share it with fellow scientific romance loving friends like you!The Reader & the Writer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our literary work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to The Reader & the Writer at thereaderandthewriter.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome back to Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea by Jules Verne. In this episode, Rhea and Shari continue to scratch their heads over Nemo. Who is this ever-mysterious figure?? They They discuss the narrative and wonder over the central conflict. Where is the story boiling? Who is the main character? is there a central conflict? Or simply a central question? They discuss character counterpoints, and revisit the question of freedom. They talk about isolation and the motif of time passing, and consider how these might be helping to express a deeper meaning. They talk about Twenty Thousand Leagues and the Great Conversation, especially the Great Story. Finally, they end this week’s discussion with a poetry reading: two poems they each thought of separately while reading this week’s section.For paid subscribers, look for this week’s show outline to come out later this week.Be sure to look through Rhea’s Reading Guide, especially the interactive map Rhea added that follows the Nautilus’s travels through the Pacific.Thanks for listening to this episode of The Reader & the Writer! If you liked what you heard, show it some ❤️ and pass it to some enigmatic folks you know.The Reader & the Writer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our literary work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to The Reader & the Writer at thereaderandthewriter.substack.com/subscribe