Join Dr. Regan for this episode on the quest for balance on the autism spectrum. Whether it's emotional regulation, attention, sleep, social interactions, task initiation, finances and more, finding the "just right" state is difficult for many on the spectrum.
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1 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:11,610 Hello and welcome back to the podcast Autism in the Adult.
2 00:00:11,620 --> 00:00:12,730 I am your host,
3 00:00:12,730 --> 00:00:14,390 Dr Theresa Regan,
4 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:16,120 a neuropsychologist,
5 00:00:16,130 --> 00:00:18,470 a certified autism specialist.
6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:23,930 The director of an autism diagnostic clinic for adolescents,
7 00:00:23,940 --> 00:00:29,590 adults and aging adults in central Illinois and the mother of a teen on the spectrum.
8 00:00:30,660 --> 00:00:48,140 I'm glad you're joining me today for this episode that I'm going to call autism and "just right." This is actually a great topic that was suggested by a listener from Finland and I hope that I am pronouncing the name correctly.
9 00:00:48,140 --> 00:01:07,680 I think it's Maya ... Maya wrote about questions and struggles within the topic of balance in life when you have that autistic neurology,
10 00:01:07,690 --> 00:01:09,270 Maya wrote this.
11 00:01:09,670 --> 00:01:23,030 I would so much love to hear what you have to say about autistic people and the struggle we have with striking a balance in situations where we have to create an appropriate view on or understanding of things?
12 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:29,350 I am convinced that this is the major autistic difficulty that I personally struggle with.
13 00:01:30,110 --> 00:01:34,570 It shows up in different forms for me and on many levels.
14 00:01:35,700 --> 00:01:39,890 I could take a few examples so that you understand what I mean?
15 00:01:39,900 --> 00:01:44,520 Because most often this is not linked to intelligence,
16 00:01:44,530 --> 00:01:46,350 for example,
17 00:01:46,350 --> 00:01:47,490 is this person,
18 00:01:47,500 --> 00:01:50,100 a friend who respects me or not,
19 00:01:50,740 --> 00:01:53,230 am I too skinny or even to fat?
20 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:58,050 Should I contact a doctor because of this thing that I'm feeling right now.
21 00:01:58,570 --> 00:02:01,470 How far should I stand by this person's side?
22 00:02:01,660 --> 00:02:04,500 How much should I help him or her?
23 00:02:05,210 --> 00:02:10,820 Exactly how well should I perform in this university course in order to pass.
24 00:02:11,910 --> 00:02:15,030 I want to thank Maya for writing about that.
25 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:29,300 Um this is something I've thought about as well and I think it's one of those really great ways to conceptualize autism aside from specific details.
26 00:02:29,310 --> 00:02:34,510 So sometimes to get the most meaning out of what you're feeling,
27 00:02:34,510 --> 00:02:47,890 it can help to step back and say how is it that all these little pieces of the autistic experience hang together in some ways it can feel so granular,
28 00:02:47,900 --> 00:02:51,500 like so many things are impacted.
29 00:02:51,510 --> 00:02:59,120 Why do these things happen at the same time and when we have ways of conceptualizing it?
30 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,450 Um I think it brings meaning.
31 00:03:02,460 --> 00:03:10,290 It helps these little pieces come together as why do I have trouble with these 12 things?
32 00:03:10,300 --> 00:03:11,380 Well,
33 00:03:11,390 --> 00:03:19,090 these 12 things have a thread that go through and when we can step back and see that thread that joins things,
34 00:03:19,100 --> 00:03:23,020 I think it really makes things more meaningful.
35 00:03:23,030 --> 00:03:26,210 Um and so that's what I want to do with this topic.
36 00:03:26,210 --> 00:03:32,870 Today I call this the just right state.
37 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,570 So she was talking about balance.
38 00:03:35,570 --> 00:03:38,230 That's another great way to term it.
39 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:43,950 Um A lot of times with the neurology that we're talking about,
40 00:03:43,950 --> 00:03:55,770 somebody will have difficulty finding that just right spot of balance where whatever they're attempting is not too much or too little.
41 00:03:56,130 --> 00:04:24,560 And ideally our neurology should help us flow in these areas that we can flow and adjust and we have this innate sense of where we should land to be just right for this context for this person for this topic and we can shift because just right will look different in one setting that it will in another setting or across time.
42 00:04:25,100 --> 00:04:30,320 So there's a lot of innit nous and flow in this ability to find just right.
43 00:04:31,650 --> 00:04:35,920 We've talked about difficulty with regulation in a very broad sense.
44 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:47,530 We did a series on regulation issues having to do with alertness and attention and emotions and getting to that just rate state in those areas.
45 00:04:47,540 --> 00:04:59,270 But I think what Maya is pointing out is that regulation and balance and just right is a thread that goes through a lot of other areas with autism as well.
46 00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:04,170 So let's take a few areas and see how this just right.
47 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:08,330 Uh this quest for just right is difficult.
48 00:05:08,950 --> 00:05:10,990 Let's take the social area.
49 00:05:11,590 --> 00:05:19,020 So some things that were struggling with that would capture this difficulty with just right would be,
50 00:05:19,030 --> 00:05:22,400 how much should I be speaking right now to this person?
51 00:05:22,410 --> 00:05:24,690 How much detail should I be giving?
52 00:05:24,700 --> 00:05:27,830 How much personal information should I share?
53 00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:34,660 What is the just right intensity and level of excitement for this context or person?
54 00:05:35,020 --> 00:05:41,240 What is just right as I'm interacting with a boss versus an acquaintance?
55 00:05:41,250 --> 00:05:43,090 How much eye contact?
56 00:05:43,100 --> 00:05:44,700 Too much or too little?
57 00:05:44,710 --> 00:05:55,420 How much emotional expression should I be using without looking false or like I'm putting on a show or that I don't care at all.
58 00:05:56,380 --> 00:05:57,410 For example,
59 00:05:57,420 --> 00:06:01,380 opening gifts without looking just flat or board,
60 00:06:01,390 --> 00:06:07,660 but without looking like an actor that's pretending to be happy with a gift.
61 00:06:08,690 --> 00:06:11,720 How much should I give this person?
62 00:06:12,830 --> 00:06:15,130 How long should I stand by them?
63 00:06:15,140 --> 00:06:17,200 How much money should I loan them?
64 00:06:17,210 --> 00:06:20,490 How many times should I give them a ride or a lift?
65 00:06:20,500 --> 00:06:24,040 How much leeway should I give in a relationship?
66 00:06:24,050 --> 00:06:25,270 For example,
67 00:06:25,280 --> 00:06:31,540 I know people are complex and I can be friends with people who do things that I don't agree with.
68 00:06:31,550 --> 00:06:34,120 But at what point do I say?
69 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:34,420 Yeah,
70 00:06:34,420 --> 00:06:37,970 this is really not a healthy relationship for me.
71 00:06:37,970 --> 00:06:40,130 I need to end this relationship.
72 00:06:41,290 --> 00:06:44,200 How close should I make this relationship?
73 00:06:44,210 --> 00:06:52,470 And how soon what is the just right closeness and the timing of a relationship?
74 00:06:52,480 --> 00:07:03,690 So some people on the spectrum struggle because they really want some definition to the relationship quickly because this in between state,
75 00:07:03,690 --> 00:07:06,770 this undefined state feels really uncomfortable.
76 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:08,600 So they might say,
77 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:20,770 well let's just get married right away because we know we're right for each other and in essence defining and structuring the relationship feels better than this.
78 00:07:20,770 --> 00:07:21,300 Huh?
79 00:07:21,310 --> 00:07:23,600 I don't know what's gonna happen with this relationship.
80 00:07:23,610 --> 00:07:27,070 It feels safer and more defined and more predictable.
81 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:36,130 Others will break up a relationship because they don't want to be in that undefined spot that in between place.
82 00:07:36,140 --> 00:07:42,420 Um So how much is just right as far as closeness in a relationship.
83 00:07:43,810 --> 00:07:52,850 What is the just right number of times to text or phone someone if they don't call you back or to extend an invitation to someone.
84 00:07:52,860 --> 00:07:58,530 Now sometimes there are rules of thumb for something like that.
85 00:07:58,540 --> 00:08:06,670 There's a nice book that I like called the Science of Making Friends that I'll link in the show notes that talks about,
86 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:06,970 you know,
87 00:08:06,970 --> 00:08:14,120 you don't text or call again once you've done so twice without a return text or call.
88 00:08:17,250 --> 00:08:28,880 I once worked with a couple and we were trying to really increase his ability to bring some nurturance and emotional content to the relationship.
89 00:08:28,890 --> 00:08:38,330 And I worked with him on being aware that one way to show his wife love is to compliment her.
90 00:08:38,340 --> 00:08:40,960 So we kind of worked on that as a goal,
91 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:41,780 practiced it,
92 00:08:41,780 --> 00:08:45,090 role played it and he put it into action.
93 00:08:45,820 --> 00:08:48,310 The problem was then his wife said,
94 00:08:48,310 --> 00:08:50,820 well now he's complimenting me too much.
95 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:54,570 It is the difficulty,
96 00:08:54,570 --> 00:08:55,820 isn't it?
97 00:08:55,870 --> 00:08:58,880 Like I can learn a strategy,
98 00:08:58,890 --> 00:09:02,390 I can apply new knowledge,
99 00:09:03,300 --> 00:09:08,690 but the getting the just right amount,
100 00:09:08,690 --> 00:09:09,880 the just right moment,
101 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:11,970 the just right compliment boy.
102 00:09:11,970 --> 00:09:13,510 That's really difficult.
103 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:15,260 It's difficult for anyone.
104 00:09:15,270 --> 00:09:16,010 Uh,
105 00:09:16,010 --> 00:09:18,580 and even more so on the spectrum,
106 00:09:20,830 --> 00:09:24,280 let's look at finances for that just right state.
107 00:09:25,130 --> 00:09:39,340 It seems common for individuals on the spectrum to either lean toward spending too much perhaps on their special interests or other things that cut their eye or to spend too little.
108 00:09:40,490 --> 00:09:41,090 Um,
109 00:09:41,100 --> 00:09:56,050 there are people that have lots of money in a savings account or other type of account but they don't want to withdraw anything to fix the roof or to buy an updated phone.
110 00:09:57,660 --> 00:10:01,970 What is the amount of spending that is just right.
111 00:10:02,830 --> 00:10:12,100 There are guides for budgeting but it can still feel really elusive to get just right in specific personal situations.
112 00:10:12,110 --> 00:10:13,490 So yeah,
113 00:10:13,490 --> 00:10:14,840 this is the principle,
114 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:16,080 this is the guideline,
115 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:17,750 this is the percentage,
116 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:25,380 but it is hard to have to look that framework up and not have a sense,
117 00:10:25,380 --> 00:10:29,070 an innate sense like yeah,
118 00:10:29,070 --> 00:10:33,180 I really need to get this roof repaired some will say,
119 00:10:33,190 --> 00:10:33,730 yeah,
120 00:10:33,730 --> 00:10:35,960 I know that I can ask for advice,
121 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:41,950 I know that I can use this budget but I wish I had this innate sense of yeah,
122 00:10:41,950 --> 00:10:46,440 I really need to update this in my home or boy,
123 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:51,570 I've spent too much on this area and not enough on this other area.
124 00:10:53,460 --> 00:10:54,240 They'll say,
125 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:54,540 you know,
126 00:10:54,540 --> 00:11:02,840 it's difficult to have a feel for it instead of having to stick to some type of formula and maybe feeling like,
127 00:11:02,850 --> 00:11:09,360 well what would that rule of thumb look like in this situation and how would it apply to this other case.
128 00:11:11,270 --> 00:11:16,490 Let's look at just right as it relates to task completion on the spectrum.
129 00:11:17,020 --> 00:11:22,400 What is the just right amount of completion for some people on the spectrum,
130 00:11:22,410 --> 00:11:30,960 completion is very important but when is something complete and what is the just right amount of accuracy and detail?
131 00:11:30,970 --> 00:11:44,080 Some may feel like I need to finish one task before I start another task or I can't go to bed until I read all of these pages assigned from the class of the previous day.
132 00:11:45,060 --> 00:11:49,120 What is the right amount of detail?
133 00:11:49,130 --> 00:11:51,290 What is the right amount of speed?
134 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:57,100 Have I done enough that this assignment is complete,
135 00:11:57,140 --> 00:12:03,440 especially when we get to adulthood tasks don't have a clear cut off.
136 00:12:04,510 --> 00:12:16,370 It's not like there are five math problems and we finish each one and we know the task is complete and maybe that we have a research paper or we have a software project.
137 00:12:16,380 --> 00:12:16,830 Well,
138 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:18,040 when is it complete?
139 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:19,620 When is it good enough?
140 00:12:23,130 --> 00:12:25,020 That difficulty knowing?
141 00:12:25,020 --> 00:12:25,480 Hey,
142 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:29,120 I haven't attended a task B at all,
143 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,420 but I've overworked on task A and how do I balance that?
144 00:12:33,420 --> 00:12:35,030 When do I know that?
145 00:12:35,030 --> 00:12:36,560 That's the difficulty.
146 00:12:38,750 --> 00:12:50,450 One person I worked with said I've always had the strong feeling that a newspaper needs to be read completely from cover to cover from every page that there,
147 00:12:50,460 --> 00:12:53,030 there is a completion that's important.
148 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,700 You can't just read an article here and there.
149 00:12:56,750 --> 00:12:58,630 That's just not right.
150 00:12:59,420 --> 00:13:06,680 Another person may feel I have to finish this test completely before I start this other project.
151 00:13:07,650 --> 00:13:18,980 Even though the first task was something a coworker asked me about and this next one I have to complete is something my boss asked me to work on.
152 00:13:22,510 --> 00:13:32,520 It's difficult sometimes for the individual with that autistic neurology to understand that all details do not have the same importance.
153 00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:38,970 Um There are people um on the spectrum who feel like,
154 00:13:38,980 --> 00:13:48,350 well every detail is going to be important so it has to be included and the neurology there just isn't helping the person know like Yeah,
155 00:13:48,350 --> 00:13:54,010 but in this instance this part is not as important as this part,
156 00:13:56,290 --> 00:14:06,880 it can be really hard to get the neurology to shift uh to adjust if a task needs to be done quickly but does not need to be as accurate.
157 00:14:07,390 --> 00:14:12,510 So meeting deadlines might really be difficult if your boss says to you,
158 00:14:12,510 --> 00:14:15,910 hey this project needs to be done quickly.
159 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:21,720 It doesn't really need to be detailed but I have to have it ready for a meeting tomorrow at noon.
160 00:14:21,730 --> 00:14:24,990 I just want to give a broad overview.
161 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:29,830 Details are not important that can feel actually very stressful.
162 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,990 Well what does a broad overview look like?
163 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,600 And will,
164 00:14:34,610 --> 00:14:41,230 will I feel okay stopping when there are other details available.
165 00:14:43,910 --> 00:14:49,200 This is also related to the topic that maya brought up about working on a course,
166 00:14:49,210 --> 00:14:50,780 a university class.
167 00:14:50,790 --> 00:14:57,460 How much work do I need to do in order to do a good job?
168 00:14:57,470 --> 00:15:00,290 What if I could have done more?
169 00:15:00,300 --> 00:15:01,820 Could have done better.
170 00:15:03,090 --> 00:15:06,500 How many a's do I need to get to be a good student?
171 00:15:06,500 --> 00:15:11,730 How can I hit the mark of balance with accuracy and speed?
172 00:15:12,910 --> 00:15:14,800 How can I balance that?
173 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,460 Everything doesn't have the same importance at the same time,
174 00:15:20,530 --> 00:15:26,400 something may be able to go undone while something else cannot wait another minute.
175 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:27,490 So triaging,
176 00:15:27,490 --> 00:15:32,400 how do I triage quickly based on importance?
177 00:15:33,210 --> 00:15:36,360 How thorough do I need to be on this project?
178 00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:41,420 If the professor said I need to cite 10 sources,
179 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,070 Can my brain let go?
180 00:15:44,070 --> 00:15:52,440 The other 25 sources I might be able to get and how can I just innately have a feel for?
181 00:15:52,450 --> 00:15:53,360 Okay,
182 00:15:53,370 --> 00:15:54,250 this is done,
183 00:15:54,260 --> 00:15:58,120 this is this project is finished and it's good to go.
184 00:15:59,020 --> 00:16:11,500 Maya also noted in her email that sometimes the approach to dealing with this difficulty is to get input from others about what might be just right in a situation,
185 00:16:12,310 --> 00:16:15,570 but that approach doesn't always feel practical.
186 00:16:15,580 --> 00:16:23,180 Like who could I ask or there's a deadline and people aren't around this just isn't practical.
187 00:16:23,190 --> 00:16:25,520 It also takes a lot of energy.
188 00:16:25,530 --> 00:16:32,760 And do I always bother the same person or how many times do I ask for input and who do I ask?
189 00:16:34,050 --> 00:16:35,610 So first of all,
190 00:16:35,620 --> 00:16:40,850 let's talk about that difficulty finding the just right state.
191 00:16:41,510 --> 00:16:46,470 So this could be within alertness and behavioral activation,
192 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,310 it can be within attention.
193 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,790 Like what is the just right amount of attention.
194 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,210 It's somewhere between distractible and hyper focus.
195 00:16:56,220 --> 00:17:08,840 What is the just right space for our emotions while it's to be psychologically present and um clearheaded and calm.
196 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,010 What is just right for test completion,
197 00:17:12,010 --> 00:17:15,280 finances working out nutrition,
198 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,130 dieting all of these things.
199 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:26,470 Let me give you an example for my own life that has to do with another physical just rate dilemma.
200 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:35,250 So one of the things that I think about that I think also highlights this is that personally,
201 00:17:35,260 --> 00:17:42,950 it's kind of a joke in my family that I have really bad depth perception and again,
202 00:17:42,950 --> 00:17:51,470 it's kind of a joke because at some point you just have to laugh and luckily I always think I have less room.
203 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:55,770 So it's not that I go around hitting things with the car,
204 00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:57,870 but you know,
205 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,350 there's lots of room left and it does get kind of funny,
206 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:12,470 I wish so in the back of my mind that I could learn to compensate for that because I do get tired of laughing at myself and having to be a good sport about this,
207 00:18:12,490 --> 00:18:18,620 just silly thing that I've parked so far away from where I could have parked,
208 00:18:20,790 --> 00:18:29,250 I realized that I always leave two ft from where I could have pulled up.
209 00:18:29,780 --> 00:18:37,640 So there's this remarkable consistency for me in that area that I can't tell what's just right,
210 00:18:37,650 --> 00:18:42,600 but somehow I'm always two ft from where I probably should be.
211 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:43,650 So I thought,
212 00:18:43,660 --> 00:18:45,100 okay,
213 00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:57,570 well I will compensate for this difficulty with just right by going an extra two ft because I actually think I can Gauge what two ft would be.
214 00:18:59,020 --> 00:19:06,830 So I started to do that and lo and behold I that just does not work.
215 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:16,110 I cannot compensate to get to intellectually get to the where the just right status.
216 00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:31,770 So as you can imagine I'm either to end up touching the wall or the um edge of the parking space with my car or I end up still being well below where I could be.
217 00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:48,420 So for me that's just another example that if my eyes in my brain are not able to show me the just rate state,
218 00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:54,700 there's not much I can do about that unfortunately.
219 00:19:55,990 --> 00:20:02,700 Um And even though I intellectually think of a strategy to compensate,
220 00:20:02,710 --> 00:20:06,940 it still doesn't mean that I can hit the just right spot.
221 00:20:06,950 --> 00:20:08,680 Well I should do this more,
222 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,140 I should do this less.
223 00:20:10,150 --> 00:20:29,430 Um So I actually believe and in my experience with clients I think that ability that flow for that feel for the just rate state is something that is very difficult to compensate for.
224 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,770 And I'm not sure that there are great ways to do that.
225 00:20:34,900 --> 00:20:46,350 I think what we typically do is we suggest intellectual compensations kind of like what I tried to do for my uh driving and parking.
226 00:20:46,360 --> 00:21:15,230 Um And I think those things are helpful in some ways but there's still this gap between where we would want to be as far as having a flow and an efficiency a feel for that would be so great rather than having to try to gauge to hit that spot a little bit better.
227 00:21:17,430 --> 00:21:23,400 Some of the compensations that are helpful would be,
228 00:21:23,410 --> 00:21:24,330 um,
229 00:21:24,340 --> 00:21:28,280 I think having the self awareness is helpful.
230 00:21:28,290 --> 00:21:29,750 So for example,
231 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:33,660 I know that I have this difficulty,
232 00:21:33,660 --> 00:21:36,480 so if I have a passenger in the car and they're like,
233 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:37,040 you know,
234 00:21:37,050 --> 00:21:42,450 you can pull up some more because I have that self awareness.
235 00:21:42,460 --> 00:21:45,850 I have a place for that to integrate that comment.
236 00:21:45,850 --> 00:21:47,070 And I can say,
237 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,080 oh yeah,
238 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:50,320 I probably can,
239 00:21:50,330 --> 00:21:51,520 I can't really tell you,
240 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:52,840 tell me when to stop.
241 00:21:53,470 --> 00:21:54,000 Um,
242 00:21:54,010 --> 00:21:57,510 so I'm able to say yes to that comment.
243 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:58,060 Like,
244 00:21:58,070 --> 00:21:58,480 oh yeah,
245 00:21:58,480 --> 00:21:59,640 I have a place for that.
246 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:00,680 That makes sense.
247 00:22:00,690 --> 00:22:01,900 I have that awareness.
248 00:22:01,900 --> 00:22:05,930 I have that understanding of myself and I can't compensate myself.
249 00:22:05,940 --> 00:22:09,010 But if you're here and you're willing to help,
250 00:22:09,010 --> 00:22:09,940 let's do that.
251 00:22:11,310 --> 00:22:14,460 So having a place to put comments like,
252 00:22:14,470 --> 00:22:15,650 um,
253 00:22:15,660 --> 00:22:16,350 you know,
254 00:22:16,350 --> 00:22:25,390 you don't have to call me so many times or um I really don't think that person is mad at you.
255 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:25,840 You know,
256 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:27,590 when we get feedback like that,
257 00:22:27,590 --> 00:22:30,950 it it does help us to have a place where we say,
258 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:31,650 oh,
259 00:22:32,250 --> 00:22:33,400 I didn't realize that,
260 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:39,570 but I do know I can make errors in that in that area sometimes.
261 00:22:40,420 --> 00:22:41,170 Um,
262 00:22:41,810 --> 00:22:47,440 I also think that the awareness can be about what we lean toward.
263 00:22:47,450 --> 00:22:50,780 So if we have trouble finding the just right spot,
264 00:22:50,780 --> 00:23:03,780 sometimes we lean toward going toward too much or too little and in my case I lean toward uh leaving too much room or thinking I don't have enough room.
265 00:23:03,780 --> 00:23:05,790 So I lean in the same direction.
266 00:23:07,100 --> 00:23:07,800 Um,
267 00:23:07,810 --> 00:23:17,440 in the case of autism and the categories that we've talked about sometimes that's true for individuals in those categories as well.
268 00:23:17,450 --> 00:23:28,640 So I have clients that always lean toward thinking that they haven't done enough or they always lean toward thinking,
269 00:23:28,900 --> 00:23:29,500 um,
270 00:23:29,510 --> 00:23:36,160 someone's mad at them or thinking that they shouldn't spend money on something.
271 00:23:36,170 --> 00:23:40,680 So they have a way that they lean so they can say to themselves,
272 00:23:40,690 --> 00:23:46,090 I realize about myself that when I am off of just right,
273 00:23:46,090 --> 00:23:48,780 I'm usually in this direction in this category.
274 00:23:50,230 --> 00:23:51,840 That's also helpful.
275 00:23:51,850 --> 00:23:52,600 Um,
276 00:23:52,610 --> 00:23:54,780 because I do think again,
277 00:23:54,780 --> 00:23:56,510 it gives us a place to put things.
278 00:23:56,510 --> 00:24:06,800 So let's say that someone is working on a university project and there's nobody there to guide them through and they're thinking,
279 00:24:08,050 --> 00:24:14,600 I've checked all these specific boxes that the professor asked for,
280 00:24:14,610 --> 00:24:17,390 but I just have this feeling that I should do more.
281 00:24:17,390 --> 00:24:19,290 I know I could do more,
282 00:24:19,300 --> 00:24:21,910 at least they're able to say to themselves,
283 00:24:21,910 --> 00:24:22,590 you know,
284 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,720 when I'm uncertain about whether I've done enough,
285 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,410 usually I've already done too much.
286 00:24:29,420 --> 00:24:30,060 Um,
287 00:24:30,060 --> 00:24:34,730 so that can be a guide for them of sorts where they could say,
288 00:24:34,730 --> 00:24:35,150 okay,
289 00:24:35,150 --> 00:24:36,170 I'm gonna,
290 00:24:36,180 --> 00:24:38,730 I'm gonna complete this task,
291 00:24:38,730 --> 00:24:42,370 I'm gonna call it completed because um,
292 00:24:43,210 --> 00:24:47,890 I know I lean in that direction and I feel like I've ticked the basic boxes.
293 00:24:52,170 --> 00:24:58,140 Another thing that can be helpful then is to have some way to communicate.
294 00:24:58,150 --> 00:25:06,210 Maybe some uh sentences or phrases or ways of putting things that you've practiced ahead of time,
295 00:25:06,890 --> 00:25:13,520 that communicate to others about your difficulty finding just right in a specific area.
296 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,880 So let's take some examples.
297 00:25:17,890 --> 00:25:26,920 And this could be communication beforehand or uh in the midst or after something has happened,
298 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,720 an example would be,
299 00:25:29,730 --> 00:25:42,750 let's say someone is starting a new romantic relationship and they have the self awareness that sometimes when they come home from work,
300 00:25:42,750 --> 00:25:48,130 they are really shut down psychologically and they're in their own head,
301 00:25:48,140 --> 00:25:48,780 you know,
302 00:25:48,780 --> 00:25:53,590 that they don't talk a lot to their partners,
303 00:25:53,590 --> 00:25:59,110 they don't interact much and sometimes partners need something that they aren't,
304 00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:00,180 aren't giving.
305 00:26:00,190 --> 00:26:02,410 So with that awareness,
306 00:26:02,420 --> 00:26:06,300 they could say to the partner ahead of time,
307 00:26:06,930 --> 00:26:07,640 hey,
308 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:17,420 I'm I've been learning about myself uh and one of the things I've learned is that I guess I tend to be shut down after work when I come home.
309 00:26:17,430 --> 00:26:20,940 So if you need help with something,
310 00:26:20,950 --> 00:26:23,620 if you um you know,
311 00:26:23,620 --> 00:26:27,580 want to tell me a specific story or something that's happened,
312 00:26:27,580 --> 00:26:39,820 you might really just have to um have me look you in the eye and tell me exactly what you need because I might not read the situation very well on my own.
313 00:26:40,550 --> 00:26:43,360 So that would be a case where,
314 00:26:43,370 --> 00:26:44,020 you know,
315 00:26:44,020 --> 00:26:45,950 you have difficulty finding just right,
316 00:26:45,950 --> 00:26:49,600 you're not going to be able to compensate after work,
317 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,210 you're already kind of offline,
318 00:26:52,220 --> 00:27:02,410 but you could explain a bit of the context even though you can't compensate yourself or shift that you could give some context.
319 00:27:03,990 --> 00:27:08,890 I think the value of that is not only giving the person that information,
320 00:27:08,890 --> 00:27:15,040 but I think telling people that you're trying to learn more about yourself,
321 00:27:15,050 --> 00:27:19,350 I think is just a really good thing to communicate.
322 00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:32,340 People value that we all know we're imperfect humans and we're learning about ourselves and we're growing and that we're open to feedback.
323 00:27:32,350 --> 00:27:33,350 So,
324 00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:33,830 you know,
325 00:27:33,830 --> 00:27:36,280 if feel free to give me feedback,
326 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:49,630 if I'm if I'm offline and and I can try to adjust an example of communicating after the fact or maybe in the midst of a fact.
327 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,540 So let's take a different example.
328 00:27:52,540 --> 00:28:06,350 We're going to take the example of being at work and there is a project that you've been put in charge of and you miss the deadline and your boss is gonna do coaching with you about that.
329 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:15,290 Um So you get feedback from your boss who is frustrated that the deadline was missed.
330 00:28:15,860 --> 00:28:16,890 That you know,
331 00:28:16,890 --> 00:28:25,660 he he really needs to be able to count on someone that can meet deadlines because these are very important to the bottom line of their department.
332 00:28:25,670 --> 00:28:30,540 And if you can't be a team player and get those deadlines done,
333 00:28:30,540 --> 00:28:34,670 then the whole team suffers again.
334 00:28:34,670 --> 00:28:39,980 This would be an opportunity for you to say in your head,
335 00:28:39,990 --> 00:28:40,380 you know,
336 00:28:40,380 --> 00:28:43,970 to think uh here here,
337 00:28:43,970 --> 00:28:44,860 this comes up.
338 00:28:44,860 --> 00:28:53,530 I know that I do tend to focus on accuracy more than speed and I didn't realize it,
339 00:28:53,530 --> 00:28:58,300 but uh that's come into play here and so out loud to your boss,
340 00:28:58,310 --> 00:29:01,140 you could say a similar thing,
341 00:29:01,140 --> 00:29:02,330 you could say,
342 00:29:03,230 --> 00:29:04,700 you know,
343 00:29:04,710 --> 00:29:07,410 I'm really sorry that that happened,
344 00:29:07,420 --> 00:29:31,260 I've been learning about myself that I really do tend toward getting into the detail and sometimes I sacrifice speed without really meaning to and what I realize helps me is and then you can give a specific thing that you would like.
345 00:29:31,270 --> 00:29:36,870 Um so one of the things an employee might ask for would be,
346 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:55,720 it would help me if I could set uh deadlines for parts of the project rather than the completion so that I really stay on pace and what I'd like to do for this next project you've given me is break it into six parts and I'm going to,
347 00:29:55,730 --> 00:29:56,390 you know,
348 00:29:56,390 --> 00:30:04,290 give you dates for my deadlines for each of these parts and you can tell me if the deadlines need to be adjusted.
349 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:11,090 Um so what you're doing is saying I have this self awareness and I'm growing in this area,
350 00:30:11,630 --> 00:30:19,600 you're showing that you're open to feedback and then you're also showing that you're going to try a new strategy.
351 00:30:20,650 --> 00:30:31,310 So sometimes there can be ways of trying to um navigate this difficulty with just right,
352 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:38,760 we talked before about how another navigation tool might might be rules of thumb or general principles.
353 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,900 So here's my budget,
354 00:30:40,900 --> 00:30:50,230 this is what I'm supposed to spend or not spend or um rules of thumb for completing a university course.
355 00:30:51,540 --> 00:31:10,790 But I think the truth of that struggle of not having that innate feel for just right really is something core in the autism neurology that I haven't found um a way to shift.
356 00:31:10,790 --> 00:31:20,690 I think that's really a core neurologic piece that I'm either too much or too little and if I hit just right,
357 00:31:20,700 --> 00:31:21,590 that's great.
358 00:31:21,590 --> 00:31:23,760 But I have such a hard time staying there.
359 00:31:25,490 --> 00:31:39,900 I want to thank my again for that insight and um I think even when there aren't answers to correct a challenge or to kind of make it easier over time,
360 00:31:39,910 --> 00:31:46,180 I think that awareness that conceptualization that oh why do I do this?
361 00:31:46,180 --> 00:31:48,650 Why am I really good at detail?
362 00:31:48,650 --> 00:31:50,590 But I really struggle with deadlines.
363 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,390 Well this all hangs together neurologically,
364 00:31:54,390 --> 00:32:05,120 it's part of that difficulty finding just right and I do think that that conceptualization that self awareness is important in and of itself.
365 00:32:05,130 --> 00:32:10,960 Um and I do think the understanding that that crosses over categories,
366 00:32:10,970 --> 00:32:21,170 social and task completion and sleep and attention and all of these other things that are really difficult to balance.
367 00:32:22,410 --> 00:32:26,960 Thank you Maya and I hope you all join me for our next episode
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