45. Investing in the nonprofit workforce with Rusty Stahl

In this heartfelt conversation, Dimple Dhabalia shares her journey from working in the government and humanitarian sectors to advocating for trauma-informed leadership and workforce well-being. Through the lens of her personal experiences and her book Tell Me My Story, Dimple explores the vital shift from “service before self” to a more sustainable, human-centered approach. This episode dives into the complexity of moral injury, the ripple effect of self-care in leadership, and how we can reframe our approach to service to prioritize both humanity and well-being.Guest Background:Dimple Dhabalia is a seasoned humanitarian professional and author of Tell Me My Story: Challenging the Narrative of Service Before Self. With nearly two decades of experience in asylum and refugee policy and operations for the U.S. government, Dimple transitioned to focus on workforce mental health and well-being, organizational trauma, and moral injury. Her work and insights are dedicated to reshaping the way we approach service, leadership, and self-care in high-stress, misson-driven environments.Top Learning Points:Moral Injury in Humanitarian Work: Dimple explains how moral injury—feeling a deep conflict between personal beliefs and professional duties—affects humanitarian workers and government employees, especially when policies conflict with their values.The Power of Self-Care and Boundaries: From the trauma of burnout to the importance of disconnecting, Dimple highlights how taking time for self-care is vital for both personal well-being and professional effectiveness.Human-Centered Leadership: Shifting from metrics-focused to human-centered leadership can create environments of trust, creativity, and collaboration that improve team dynamics and reduce burnout.Creating Space for Healing: Dimple emphasizes the importance of modeling empathy and compassion, and how small shifts in leadership style—such as fostering psychological safety and encouraging boundaries—can have a profound impact on team health.Resources mentioned:Tell Me My Story: Challenging the Narrative of Service Before Self by Dimple DhabaliaPodcast: Service Without Sacrifice–conversations on hope + healingPodcast: What Would Ted Lasso DoProject: /rōot/ by dimple dhabalia on SubstackBook Mention: Pause–Harnessing the Life-Changing Power of Giving Yourself a Break by Rachael O’Meara  Quotes:"Service doesn’t require sacrifice—well-being should be a normal part of our everyday work and life." – Dimple Dhabalia"Moral injury is a natural response when your professional role and personal beliefs don’t align." – Dimple Dhabalia"True leadership isn’t about titles; it’s about how we show up in the world." – Dimple Dhabalia"Creating space for healing starts with being authentic and modeling the change we want to see." – Dimple Dhabalia"Even in systems that feel out of alignment, small acts of compassion can create ripple effects that lead to change." – Dimple Dhabalia

In this episode of Embodying Change, Melissa Pitotti welcomes back Torrey Peace, leadership coach and expert in the humanitarian and development sectors. Together, they explore the challenge of balancing high performance with self-care, and the importance of setting boundaries and empowering your team to thrive. Torrey shares insightful strategies on overcoming imposter syndrome, delegating effectively, and why investing in your team creates a ripple effect of positive impact. Tune in to hear practical advice you can start applying today, whether you’re leading a small team or an entire organization.About TorreyAs a certified coach with twelve years’ experience in international development Torrey Peace facilitates rising and established leaders in the humanitarian and development world to become the leaders they admire, or “people centered leaders.” She has taught and coached over 400 supervisors globally from the UN, INGO and civil society to become more inclusive and caring leaders that make a greater impact while also stepping out of overwork and overwhelm. Her mission is to provide leaders the skills they need to be part of the change we want to see in the humanitarian and development world while also maintaining their wellbeing. For more information about Torrey’s work and podcast, please visit www.aidforaidworkers.com.Key Topics:● What it means to embody change as a leader● Overcoming imposter syndrome and shifting mindset● Delegating effectively to create more time and space● Practical tips for managing and empowering your team● The importance of peer support and collaboration in leadershipLinks and Resources:● Torrey’s Leadership Style Quiz● Learn more about Torrey Peace’s Modern Humanitarian and Development Leader course● Follow Torrey Peace on LinkedIn● Listen to the Modern Humanitarian and Development Leader Podcast

In this episode, Melissa Pitotti talks with Debra Peltz, founder of CollabWork and a well-being champion with a 25-year career in senior administration roles. Debra shares her journey from volunteering in Sri Lanka to working at Save the Children UK and eventually launching her own business. They explore:What it means to truly "embody change" in your personal and professional life.Debra’s work at Save the Children UK, first supporting the Exec Director for HR before moving into a Wellbeing Lead role, where she developed and implemented strategies to promote psychological safety, enhance mental health, and build resilience across the organization.The creation of her Wellbeing Forum, a community space for sharing ideas, supporting each other, and promoting employee well-being.Insights into the System Changer Sleepover retreat, designed to foster collaboration and support among women in the humanitarian space.Practical tips for maintaining well-being and balance in demanding roles.Key Quotes:"It’s not just about talking or planning change, but showing it through everyday choices.""Well-being leaders give so much to others, but they often forget about themselves until it's too late."Connect with Debra:Website: collabwork.co.ukLinkedIn: Debra PeltzMentioned in this Episode:Wellbeing Forum - This is a collaborative working group of wellbeing professionals from over 60 diverse organizations, dedicated to employee health and well-being. It’s a space where ideas flow freely, challenges are met head-on, and meaningful connections are formed. If you hold the role of Wellbeing Lead, Advisor, or HR Manager or have dual responsibility and would like to join, email [email protected]. Debra’s new venture, CollabWork Virtual Business Support, helps entrepreneurs and small business owners take their workload from overwhelming to manageable. With over 25 years of experience as an award-winning Executive Assistant, Debra’s approach is personal and tailored, focusing on understanding your unique needs to simplify your daily operations. Whether it’s managing schedules, organizing projects, or handling research, CollabWork is about making your life easier so you can focus on what truly matters. It’s virtual support, but with a human touch. If you or someone you know could use a bit of extra support, feel free to reach out and see how you could collaborate. www.collabwork.co.uk or email her at [email protected].

In this episode, Melissa Pitotti is joined by Sarah Noble, Head of Global Engagement at the Caux Initiatives of Change Foundation. Sarah shares her unique perspective on peace-building, storytelling, and how inner development can create outer change. Together, they discuss:The history and mission of the Caux Palace as a gathering place for change-makers.Sarah’s journey from working at The New Humanitarian to her current role at the Caux Foundation.The importance of storytelling in peace and conflict resolution.Practical ways to incorporate quiet time and self-reflection into your life.How the Inner Development Goals framework helps accelerate progress to tackle global challenges.A preview of the System Changer Sleepover retreat, a space for women in the humanitarian sector to connect and collaborate on systems change and workforce well-being.About Sarah NobleSarah is originally from Canada and has lived in Switzerland for more than half her life. She has dedicated her career to building a better world through storytelling and peacebuilding. In her TEDx talk, Storytelling is Our Real-Life Superpower, she highlights the power of stories to address the existential challenges of our time. With over 20 years of experience in strategic communications, fundraising, and partnerships, Sarah co-founded and curates the Peace Talks at Interpeace. She has overseen more than 20 editions across eight countries and worked with over 200 speakers. Previously, she served as Director of External Relations at The New Humanitarian, leading its rebranding and expanding its funding base. Sarah holds an MA in International Affairs and volunteers as the Country Chair of Global Dignity for Switzerland.Key Quotes:"Embodying change is about being the change you want to see, and leading from the heart, not just the mind.""Quiet time is not a luxury—it's an essential practice for inner and outer peace.""We all need to be like the hummingbird, doing the best that we can, even when the world seems overwhelming."Connect with Sarah and the Caux Foundation:Website: caux.chLearn more about their summer forums, events, and how to host your own gathering at the Caux Palace.Mentioned in this Episode:Wangari Maathai, the Kenyan environmentalist and Nobel Peace Prize laureate. She was the founder of the Green Belt Movement and the first African woman to receive the Nobel Peace Prize in 2004 for her efforts in sustainable development, democracy, and peace. The hummingbird story is a beautiful story she often shared to illustrate the importance of individual action in the face of seemingly overwhelming challenges.Here is a recording of her telling of it.PeaceTalks - website The New Humanitarian - websiteInner Development Goals (IDG) - websiteSystem Changer Sleepover – contact Melissa Pitotti on LinkedIn for more details

Ever wonder how aid workers can stay safe in some of the world’s most dangerous environments? Rebecca Maudling, is on a mission to make sure humanitarian staff not only survive but feel confident and equipped to do their work safely — even in the toughest conditions. From co-founding an organization that helps NGOs work more safely, to reshaping how we think about mental health in crisis zones, Rebecca's insights on duty of care are hard earned. Stay tuned to the end to hear her big news about an exciting event coming up. Today’s GuestRebecca is Co-Founder & Director of International Location Safety (ILS). She co-founded the organization, growing it from a start-up to its current position as a leading provider of security risk management services within the humanitarian aid and development sector. ILS supports organizations globally to meet their Duty of Care obligations and enable their staff to work in challenging situations around the world. As the business has grown, she has built up a fantastic team and so although now less involved in the day-to-day running of the business, she retains strategic oversight and a passion for supporting organizations to protect and care for their staff. Key Topics Discussed:Embodying Change: Courage to challenge the status quo and live in alignment with personal valuesThe ILS Origin Story: How Rebecca and her co-founder started ILS to provide safety and security training for humanitarian organizationsThe Core Services of ILS: Hostile Environment Awareness Training (HEAT), which is simulation-based safety, security and first aid training for staff working in complex environments, and Duty of Care Benchmarking, which assesses organizational practices around to ensuring the safety, security and well-being of staff in high-risk environmentsPsychological Well-being: How ILS integrates psychological safety into their training and organizational supportSector Trends: Growing awareness of mental health and well-being in the humanitarian sectorAidEx 2024: Highlights of the upcoming Duty of Care Pavilion, including sessions on safeguarding, AI, crisis management, and LGBTQ+ inclusion in duty of care practicesKey Takeaway:Rebecca emphasizes the importance of connection—both to oneself and to others—in sustaining well-being, especially in high-pressure environments like humanitarian work.Connect with ILS:Website: https://www.locationsafety.com/ILS Duty of Care conference: https://www.locationsafety.com/aidex-2024AidEx website: https://www.aid-expo.com/whats-on/ils-duty-of-care-pavilion-and-conferenceILS LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/international-location-safety/Rebecca’s personal LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-maudling/Upcoming Events:AidEx 2024 Duty of Care Pavilion: Join Rebecca and her team in Geneva on October 23-24 for key discussions on aid worker safety and well-being. https://www.aid-expo.com/whats-on/ils-duty-of-care-pavilion-and-conference System Changer Sleepover (Oct 25-27): A follow-up event for women in the humanitarian sector to discuss workforce well-being and systemic change. Contact [email protected] for more details. Quotes"Embodying change requires courage—courage to challenge the status quo and live in alignment with your values, even when it's difficult." – Rebecca Maudling"We put psychological well-being at the heart of what we do. If you're not in a good mental place, you're not going to make good decisions under stress." – Rebecca Maudling"The conversations around well-being in the humanitarian sector are happening more than ever. But there's still a long way to go." – Rebecca Maudling"For us, it’s not just about teaching people how to survive hostile environments—it’s about helping them feel confident and empowered to do their work safely." – Rebecca Maudling"When it comes to duty of care, it's not enough to have policies on paper. It’s about putting them into practice and making sure they actually work on the ground." – Rebecca Maudling"Connection—to yourself and to others—is vital. You need to know what you need to sustain yourself and have a support network in place, especially when times get tough." – Rebecca Maudling"We're seeing more conversations about mental health being just as important as physical health. That’s a positive shift, but there’s still so much more we can do." – Rebecca Maudling"The humanitarian sector is facing unprecedented risks, and it’s never been more important to...

In this episode, Melissa Pitotti speaks with Deborah Doane, author of The INGO Problem: Power, Privilege, and Renewal. Deborah brings decades of experience in the humanitarian and development sectors, from leading the Ombudsman Project for humanitarian accountability to co-founding the RINGO Project, which is pushing for systemic change in global civil society. The conversation explores key themes from Deborah’s book, including the challenges of reforming the INGO sector, shifting power to local actors, and embracing new roles for INGOs in the future.Key topics covered:A perspective on "embodying change": Deborah’s reflection on lifelong learning, stepping back, and listening.The INGO Problem: Power dynamics, accountability, and how the current INGO system can sideline rather than support local actors.The RINGO Project: Systems change and prototypes like the Reverse Call for Proposals that aim to shift power and resources to local civil society organizations.The future of INGOs: where INGOs move away from direct service delivery and focus on facilitation, advocacy, and fiscal sponsorship for local actors.The role of donors: How funding mechanisms must evolve to support more equitable, trust-based partnerships.Learning from prototypes: RINGO’s innovation approach, trying out new models for accountability, risk management, and participatory grant-making.Quotes:“Embodying change means constantly learning, living my values, and interrogating my own actions.” – Deborah Doane“If INGOs truly want to show solidarity, they need to shift their role from service delivery to supporting local actors to lead.” – Deborah Doane“The bureaucracy and compliance requirements are protecting no one—they need a revolution.” – Deborah Doane“Prototyping is about trying something out, and if it doesn’t work, you’ve still learned something.” – Deborah Doane“We need to rethink the role of INGOs in the future—they must be smaller, more flexible, and in service to local communities.” – Deborah Doane"The need for system-wide change is clear, and everyone has a role to play." – Nana Asantewa AfadzinuDeborah Doane is an independent consultant and author with over two decades of experience in humanitarian and development sectors. She has led key initiatives like the RINGO Project and the Ombudsman Project, which focused on bringing accountability to the humanitarian aid sector. Her latest book, The INGO Problem, explores the power dynamics and privilege embedded in international NGOs and how to move toward a more equitable system.Connect with Deborah Doane:LinkedInResources Mentioned:The INGO Problem: Power, Privilege, and Renewal by Deborah Doane: Purchase hereThe Ringo Project: Learn more hereThe Pledge for Change: WebsiteCHS Alliance: WebsiteCall to Action:If you want to dive deeper into how INGOs operate and how they can shift power to local communities, pick up Deborah’s book, The INGO Problem. Let’s continue these important conversations on how we can all contribute to meaningful, system-wide change.

What does it mean to sit in the gray areas of change? How can philanthropy better support nonprofit leaders and staff in these challenging times?In today’s episode of Embodying Change, host Melissa Pitotti speaks with Elisha Smith Arrillaga, a thought leader in philanthropy and the leader of the research team at the Center for Effective Philanthropy. Elisha shares her journey from a childhood deeply influenced by civil rights activism to her role in shaping effective philanthropic practices. The conversation covers critical topics, including the findings from the 2024 State of Nonprofits report, which highlights the ongoing burnout crisis among nonprofit leaders, and the transformative impact of large, unrestricted gifts as seen in Mackenzie Scott’s philanthropy.Elisha also provides a sneak peek into their upcoming research, exploring the differences in grantee experiences when receiving funds directly from foundations versus intermediaries. This episode is packed with insights for anyone passionate about the future of philanthropy and nonprofit well-being.Today’s GuestElisha Smith Arrillaga is the Director of Research at the Center for Effective Philanthropy (CEP). She has dedicated her career to ensuring that philanthropic practices are grounded in research and focused on maximizing their positive impact on nonprofits and the communities they serve.Website: Center for Effective PhilanthropySocial Media: LinkedInYou’ll  hear:What embodying change means in the context of philanthropyElisha’s journey from a childhood rooted in social justice to leading research at CEPInsights from the 2024 State of Nonprofits report on burnout and staff well-beingThe impact of Mackenzie Scott’s large, unrestricted gifts on nonprofit organizationsHow funders perceive nonprofits' capacity to manage large gifts and what this says about the systemResources mentionedThe Big Gifts Report: The Impact of Large, Unsrestricted GiftsState of Nonprofits 2024: What Funders Need to KnowTrust-Based Philanthropy: Trust-Based Philanthropy ProjectHaas Fund Case Study: SSIR article on operationalizing trustWellbeing Project: The Wellbeing ProjectQuotes“Embodying change means being able to sit in the gray areas and take the best of all kinds of solutions.” – Elisha Smith Arrillaga“Supporting nonprofit leaders and staff is crucial to achieving their missions—burnout can't be ignored.” – Elisha Smith Arrillaga“Receiving large, unrestricted gifts boosts leadership confidence and allows for greater innovation and impact.” – Elisha Smith Arrillaga“Flexibility in funding allows organizations to plan effectively and respond creatively to challenges.” – Elisha Smith Arrillaga“There are assumptions about nonprofits’ ability to manage large gifts, but our research shows they can, and they do amazing things with those funds.” – Elisha Smith ArrillagaCall to ActionSubscribe to the Embodying Change podcast for more inspiring conversations.Visit cep.org to learn more about the Center for Effective Philanthropy and their research.Join or listen to the replay of the CEP’s webinar on October 15th to dive deeper into their latest report on intermediaries in philanthropy.

How can we create a thriving workplace culture in the humanitarian sector? In today’s episode of Embodying Change, host Melissa Pitotti welcomes Leanne Marega, a pioneer in humanitarian workforce well-being and a founder of Thrive Worldwide. Leanne shares her journey from Interhealth Worldwide to founding Thrive Worldwide, emphasizing the critical role of culture in fostering thriving workplaces. You’ll hear about the importance of healthy boundaries, the challenges of leadership in times of crisis, and practical steps to create supportive work environments.Leanne also opens up about her personal battle with cancer and how it influenced her perspective on well-being and leadership. Her story of hope and community support during a challenging time offers valuable insights for anyone facing similar struggles. Today’s GuestLeanne Marega is Co-Founder and CEO for Thrive Worldwide bringing over 15 years experience in the wellbeing industry. Prior to Thrive, Leanne worked with InterHealth Worldwide for eight years, 4 of those years as Regional Director for Eastern Africa based in Kenya. Leanne is an entrepreneur with a heart to see people and organisations flourish. Leanne has a Masters from University of East London (UEL) in International Humanitarian Psychosocial Consultation. She is also a trained Coach from the Awaken Coach Institute. Leanne lives between the UK and Kenya with her husband. She thrives in community, going on long walks, cooking, baking and reading a good book.Website: thrive-worldwide.orgThrive LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thriveworldwide/Personal LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leanne-marega-kennedy/You’ll LearnWhat embodying change means on a personal and organizational levelThe journey from Interhealth Worldwide to Thrive WorldwideThe importance of culture in supporting staff well-beingPractical steps for creating healthy boundaries for thrivingThe role of leadership in fostering a supportive work environmentLeanne's personal journey with cancer and how it reshaped her views on leadership and communityResources MentionedThrive Worldwide’s Website: thrive-worldwide.org2024 Burnout State of Workplace Report: gallup.comMcKinsey on Organizational Health: mckinsey.comDeloitte’s Insights on Employee Well-being: deloitte.comQuotes“Embodying change means it literally comes from the inside out.” – Leanne Marega“We need to look at the system and consider how leaders lead and managers manage to foster a thriving workplace.” – Leanne Marega“Transformation takes time and commitment, especially in the humanitarian sector.” – Leanne MaregaCall to ActionSubscribe to the Embodying Change podcast for more inspiring conversations.Visit thrive-worldwide.org to learn more about Thrive Worldwide and their work.Connect with Leanne Marega on LinkedIn for further insights and updates.

How can we create sustainable change within humanitarian and development organizations? In today’s episode of Embodying Change, host Melissa Pitotti welcomes back Mary Ann Clements, a pivotal figure in the history of this podcast and Co-CEO at an organisation working on  disability justice, ADD International. Mary Ann shares her journey from initiating Healing Solidarity to re-imagining an INGO to become a participatory grant maker. You’ll hear about the importance of embodying change, the challenges of reimagining institutions, and the role of power dynamics in achieving sustainable transformation. Stay tuned until the end for Mary Ann’s insights on creating environments that support well-being and resilience.Today’s GuestMary Ann Clements is co-CEO at ADD International and the initiator of Healing Solidarity. With extensive experience in social justice and humanitarian work, Mary Ann is committed to fostering well-being and systemic change in the sector.Website: maryannclements.comSocial Media: LinkedIn You’ll LearnWhat embodying change means and how it influences organizational cultureThe importance of well-being and resilience in creating sustainable changeHow Healing Solidarity started and evolved over timeThe challenges and benefits of collaborative leadershipInsights into the participatory grant-making process at ADD InternationalResources MentionedMary Ann Clements’ website: maryannclements.comADD International: add.org.ukHealing Solidarity YouTube Channel"We can’t hashtag our way to change" by Mary Ann Clements in Alliance Magazine"Power does not shift easily" by Fredrick Ouko and Mary Ann Clements in Alliance MagazineThe Working Well report on the CHS Alliance websiteEmbodying Change podcasts featuring Mary Ann Clements as host:Episode 5 with Dr. Peter Mills Episode 6 with Imogen Wall Episode 7 with Lana Baqaeen Episode 8 with Gemma HouldeyThe CHS Alliance Global Gathering 2021 - Living our values: Care, culture and power in aid - on YouTube Quotes“Embodying change means showing up with vulnerability and leaning into difficult conversations.” – Mary Ann Clements“Creating a supportive work environment requires us to recognize our power dynamics and work towards more inclusive and caring practices.” – Mary Ann ClementsCall to ActionSubscribe to the Embodying Change podcast for more inspiring conversations.Visit maryannclements.com to learn more about Mary Ann’s work and sign up for her newsletter.Engage with Healing Solidarity’s archived content on YouTube for more insights into creating systemic change.

Why is burnout so prevalent in the nonprofit sector? How can funders better support the people who deliver?In today’s episode of Embodying Change, host Melissa Pitotti welcomes Rusty Stahl, founder of Fund the People. Rusty shares his journey into philanthropy, the systemic issues leading to chronic underinvestment in nonprofit staff, and the innovative solutions Fund the People advocates for. You’ll learn about the harmful myths surrounding nonprofit overhead, the importance of treating nonprofit staff as essential assets, and practical steps to foster a healthier, more sustainable nonprofit sector.If you're passionate about creating a supportive and effective nonprofit environment, this episode is a must-listen.Today’s GuestRusty Stahl is the founder of Fund the People, an organization dedicated to maximizing investment in the nonprofit workforce. With a background in social justice and philanthropy, Rusty has been a leading voice in advocating for better support and compensation for nonprofit staff.Website: fundthepeople.orgSocial Media: LinkedIn, TwitterYou’ll LearnThe historical and systemic issues leading to underinvestment in nonprofit staffWhy burnout is a symptom of deeper organizational problemsThe concept of "talent investing" and how it can transform the nonprofit sectorPractical steps funders and nonprofits can take to better support their workforceThe importance of aligning funding practices with organizational needs and valuesResources MentionedFund the People Website: fundthepeople.orgFund the People – A Podcast with Rusty Stahl: subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or visit the show webpage to stream episodes, get transcripts, speaker bios, and links to resourcesState of Nonprofits 2024: view the report by the Center for Effective PhilanthropyHow Foundations are Supporting Grantee Staff Well-Being: view the research snapshot by Center for Effective PhilanthropyBlog Post (in response to Center for Effective Philanthropy research): To Ensure Nonprofit Wellbeing, Invest in Wages, Workload, and Working ConditionsThe Guru on Burnout Podcast Episode: Interview with Dr. Christina Maslach HEREQuotes“Burnout is the visible symptom of an invisible problem: the chronic deficit of investment in our workforce.” – Rusty Stahl“Nonprofits are not social change machines; they are composed of people, and funding must reflect that.” – Rusty StahlCall to ActionSubscribe to the Embodying Change podcast for more insightful conversations.Visit fundthepeople.org to explore resources and learn how to support nonprofit staff effectively.