How To Not Screw Up Switching Your App to Subscriptions — Matt Ronge, Astropad

On the podcast: Marcus Burke talks about the past, present, and future of Meta ads, tactics to scale subscription apps on Meta, and why you should probably exclude younger audiences in your targeting.Key Takeaways:⍰  Why Meta Ads? Its vast reach and precision targeting make Meta the best platform for discovery. Ads seamlessly integrate with organic content, providing a native experience for users and transparency for advertisers.📈 Simplify for efficiency. Kick off with broad targeting within a consolidated account structure. As your understanding and budget deepens, become more targeted with tailored ad variations. 🎯 Strategic targeting tips. To elevate conversion rates early on, sidestep users under 25 or 30 and prefer manual campaign setups. This initial focus enhances control, paving the way for more automated refinement later on.🧘 Navigating SKAN with patience. Prioritize trial events and give the data time to crystallize into actionable insights. Rushed evaluations can deceive; allowing at least a week can provide a more accurate picture of your campaign's impact.🦾 Harness creative diversity and precise placements. Scaling up means evolving your creative approach to suit distinct audience behaviors across Meta's diverse platforms. Meticulously analyzing demographic and placement data ensures your ads resonate more profoundly with your target audience. 🖥️ Tips for better ads. Study native content and competitors to design ads similar to what users already see. Test new creatives in separate campaigns to protect your main campaign’s performance.About Guest👨‍💻 Independent consultant who helps subscription apps unlock Meta as their primary growth channel.📈 Marcus has over a decade of experience with a background in both gaming and consumer tech, working with companies like Forge of Empires, Blinkist, and Tandem. You can also find him on LinkedIn sharing practical advice on Meta Ads, Web2App, optimizing paywalls, and improving user onboarding.💡 “Don’t target too narrow. These algorithms usually need a lot of reach so they can use the data to find the right audience for you. If you apply a ton of targeting restrictions on top, then usually you pay a premium for targeting more granularly while performance is not necessarily better.”👋  LinkedInEpisode Highlights[9:18] Before and after: How Meta ad marketing changed after Apple’s App Tracking Transparency (ATT).[17:56] Working within limits: The pros and (multiple) cons of SKAN 3.[20:36] Into the Meta-verse: Why subscription apps are uniquely situated to benefit from Meta ads.[23:40] (Best) practice makes perfect: How to optimize Meta ad campaigns to find the right audiences and maximize ROI.[32:56] Right on target: Unlock your app’s advertising potential with more advanced creative and placement strategies.[35:06] The other half of the equation: Ads are just the beginning of the customer journey — make sure your entire funnel is a seamless and compelling experience for potential users.[48:25] Get creative: For the best ad performance and ROI, create ad content that matches what your users are looking for on social platforms.[52:13] The future is bright: Upcoming developments like SKAN 4 and Meta’s Aggregated Event Measurement (AEM) should make creating and analyzing Meta ads easier.

On the podcast: David talks about the many failures of his recent app launch, the surprising results of his first-ever A/B test, and the many reasons why you shouldn’t plan a big app launch.Top Takeaways:🔄 Continuous evolution over big bangs: For subscription apps, frequent updates create enduring value, outpacing the impact of sparse, major launches. This steady stream of enhancements keeps your app relevant and signals relentless improvement to your audience.🌱 Opt for flexible launches: Avoid putting all your hopes in one major launch. A strategy that includes multiple, smaller launches allows for adaptability and maintains your app's presence against the backdrop of an unpredictable news cycle.📰 Press is unpredictable: Understand that media coverage does not guarantee app success. The broad reach may not always align with your target audience and many factors are outside of your control. Keep swinging, though, as some hits will indeed make a substantial impact — just keep your expectations in check. 💰 Adopt value-based pricing: Pricing should reflect what customers value in your app, not just the costs to provide it. Value-based pricing doesn't necessarily mean charging more, it just means charging the perceived value. Users don’t care about the costs of providing a service.🔍 A/B testing insights depend on the nature of the cohort. The origin of your app's users — e.g. via launch events or organic growth — plays a crucial role in interpreting A/B test results. What did or didn’t work for one group isn’t necessarily applicable for the next — so test and draw conclusions appropriately. About Guest:👨‍💻 Growth advocate at RevenueCat and indie developer of apps like Launch Center Pro and Weather Up.🍎 Although he’s neither a designer nor a developer, David has been building the kinds of thoughtful, intuitive apps he wants to use since the App Store first launched in 2008.💡 “The tough thing about getting attention is you do have to do something unique… and that’s the trade-off. The calculus for me was, ‘Let’s wait and try to make a big splash with all these things.’ But really, we could have already launched the widget, and just adding interaction would have gotten attention.”👋  LinkedIn | TwitterEpisode Highlights:[11:04] Just ship it: Don’t try to release a ton of new features at once — you’ll get more attention and benefits by releasing incremental updates.[23:11] Failure to launch: What’s the worst that can happen on your app launch day? A major Apple announcement![32:09] Riding the wave: Offering a launch-day sale on your app is a great way to increase conversions when you release a major update.[36:16] The value of value-based pricing: Set your app’s price based on your target customer’s perceived value of your solution, not your idea of how much it’s worth and costs to run.[42:54] Dog-fooding the ’cat: David used several RevenueCat features (like Paywalls and Experiments) to set up and monitor the results of the Weather Up 3.0 launch.

On the podcast: RevenueCat’s 2024 State of Subscription Apps report, the state of the app industry more broadly, and why a slight drop in renewals in 2023 isn’t as bad as it may seem.Key insights:📈 Optimize conversion rates: With a 1.7% average conversion rate from downloads to paying subscribers, there's a wide gap indicating room for improvement. North America shows higher conversions, spotlighting the need for regional price optimization.🗓️ Persistence pays off: The top 5% of apps outearn the bottom quartile by 200 times a year post-launch. If year one is tough, consider pivoting or trying a new approach.🗺️ Strategic focus is key: North America leads in app revenue, but don't overlook markets like South Korea, Japan, and India. Choosing the right platform and regional focus is crucial.💲 Retention is crucial: A 14% drop in subscriber retention highlights the need for apps to focus on retaining users who truly value their service. It's vital to distinguish between loyal users and those less engaged.📱 Reactivation grows with scale: While over 10% of churned subscribers resubscribe, reactivation becomes significantly more impactful as your app grows. Early on, prioritize acquisition and retention over win-back campaigns.About Guests 🎙️David Barnard is Growth Advocate at RevenueCat and host of this very podcast.👋🏼David’s LinkedIn💻Jacob Eiting is the CEO of RevenueCat, a self-proclaimed computer person, and often co-hosts this podcast with David. 👋🏼Jacob’s LinkedInLinks & ResourcesCheck out RevenueCat onlineEpisode Highlights [1:31] Weathering the storm: After several years of turmoil in the subscription app industry, things finally started to settle down in 2023 — and app businesses are thriving.[7:12] The business of intelligence: AI technology leapt forward in 2023, and mobile AI apps saw big wins.[14:07] Stop guessing, start acting: The benchmarks in the 2023 State of Subscription Apps report can help you make data-driven strategic decisions.[17:37] The state of the (app) union: Five key takeaways from the report that identify industry trends, potential pitfalls, and emerging opportunities.[38:44] First impressions matter: Most trial starts occur within 24 hours, so make sure your user onboarding experience is compelling.

On the podcast: How to build a content marketing flywheel, the importance of content that’s inherently valuable, and why you shouldn’t give up on content marketing even if your early attempts only get a few views.🛠️ Validate your app idea with minimal resources. Use a simple mock-up and some way to drive paid or organic traffic to gauge interest before development. Fares Ksebati tested demand for an app that didn’t exist by collecting emails via a basic website. This lean approach confirmed interest with over 200 sign-ups, showcasing an effective, low-cost validation method.🌱 Startup accelerators: a selective boost for early ventures. For newcomers like Fares, accelerators are goldmines for skills in customer discovery and networking. They're most valuable for startups without a solid network or those aligned with the accelerator's focus. While they sharpen your pitch and connect you with mentors, their benefits may wane as your business matures. Choose one that fits your app's niche for the best impact.🏃‍♂️ Content marketing is a marathon, not a sprint. Fares’s journey with MySwimPro underscores that content marketing requires patience and passion. Initially focusing on answering common swimming questions, the strategy wasn't about quick wins but building trust and brand over time. Early content may not drive immediate app usage spikes, but it lays the foundation for brand recognition and credibility. 💸 Great content transcends user acquisition and unlocks direct monetization. Establishing a significant online presence, particularly on platforms like YouTube, offers dual benefits: attracting new users and generating revenue through ads and brand partnerships. This strategy highlights the power of creating engaging, value-driven content that not only draws in subscribers but also opens additional revenue streams.🔍 The biggest mistake when experimenting with paid acquisition is not having the right analytics in place. Success in paid acquisition hinges on robust analytics for tracking campaign effectiveness and the ability to quickly adjust strategies. Without confidence in attribution and the ability to iterate quickly, budgets can be wasted on ineffective ads and you won’t be able to scale.💬 Effective value communication eases the shift from free to paid subscriptions. Transitioning users from free to premium features necessitates a clear demonstration of added benefits. While consumers are increasingly willing to pay for software, that comes with higher expectations. But it’s important to remember that some users will always complain about price, regardless of cost, while some will always be willing to pay for the most premium subscription. Getting pricing right is a constant balance of qualitative user psychology with data-driven insight. About Guest:👨‍💻 Co-Founder and CEO of MySwimPro, an app that provides personalized workouts and training plans for swimmers.🏊 An accomplished swimmer himself, Fares created MySwimPro to help swimmers of all skill levels improve their performance — even if they don’t have a team or coach.💡 “With content marketing, you have to do one of three things: You have to either educate people, entertain them, or inspire them. Now, if you're really good at any one of those, that's great. But if you're amazing, you can do multiple at the same time.”👋  LinkedInLinks & Resources:Connect with Fares on TwitterCheck out MySwimProWatch MySwimPro on YouTubeEpisode Highlights:[3:41] Fake it ‘til you make it: In 2014, Fares validated the idea for MySwimPro by driving traffic to a website for an app that didn’t exist yet.[10:07] Don’t reinvent the wheel: Use tools that already exist (like Google and YouTube) to find what potential users are searching for and get the word out about your app.[19:38] Changing the channel: Your app should have a presence on the social channels that best fit the brand and marketing acquisition funnel you’re trying to build.[23:59] Content marketing pays off (literally): Monetize your marketing content with ads and brand partnerships for an additional revenue stream.[30:33] Start simple: These days, making great marketing content is easier than ever — all you need is a smartphone and an inexpensive microphone.[42:12] The price is… wrong?: Some of your users are willing to pay more than what you’re charging, and developing new pricing packages can unlock more revenue.

On 25th January, Apple published its guidance on how it would comply with the EU’s Digital Markets Act (DMA). The response, in keeping with Apple’s response to other demands for reforms, effectively disincentivizes most apps from taking advantage of the changes. The changes are complex and confusing, and the answer to whether apps should make changes isn’t completely black-and-white. To help developers navigate these changes, we pulled together an “emergency” episode featuring RevenueCat’s CEO Jacob Eiting and Head of Product Jens-Fabian Goetzmann, Runway CEO Gabriel Savit, and Nico Wittenborn, founder of Adjacent. Here are the discussion’s key takeaways:📲 The DMA Reforms How App Stores Work in the EU — The DMA mandates that app stores, like Apple's, cannot enforce the use of first-party app stores or in-app payment systems in the EU. Android already supports third-party app stores (sideloading), so Google’s focus has been on offering alternative payments via “user-choice billing”. For Apple, which does not support sideloading, the EU reforms have needed to be much more significant.   🔓 Apple Releases Opt-In New Business Terms — Apple’s response was to introduce an optional new set of business terms with a dizzying number of changes to fees and choices for developers. By opting-in, developers unlock new ways to distribute their app and charge users, but doing so comes with changes to and additions to fees paid to Apple. The changes are complex enough that developers have to analyze the implications very carefully.  🌀Fee Structure of the New Terms is a Complex Maze — Apple's new terms introduce a convoluted fee structure, where reduced commissions are coupled with the Core Technology Fee (CTF), where developers pay €0.50 for the first annual install over a 1M threshold. The CTF includes not just first-time installs, but first annual re-installs and updates from first and third-party app stores as well. This install fee effectively means that any high volume low average revenue per user (ARPU) app is likely to lose out by accepting the new terms. 🛑 Third-party App Stores Unviable for All but the Biggest Players — The new terms aren’t so rosy for potential new “marketplace apps”, either. New app stores will not be exempt from the CTF, making the first 3M downloads of the marketplace app itself cost the operator €1M — €0.50 per install over the 1M download threshold. And then apps within that marketplace also have to pay the CTF fee. This means that opening a third-party app store is unviable except for the very biggest attempts or for stores that have a high-charge per install (e.g. a game marketplace where users pay a relatively high one-off fee per game).     🔍 There Might Be Strategic Opportunities, but They Remain to Be Seen — Yes, most apps seem to be better off sticking with the original terms. But there might be opportunities for niche apps. For example, apps that have a low volume of installs but high ARPU (by having a costly yearly subscription, for example) might be able to absorb the CTF, even considering yearly updates. An additional as-yet unexplored change is that Apple has introduced 600 new APIs, meaning that there’s an opening for new third-party applications and integrations.   About Guests📱Gabriel Savit is CEO of Runway, a release platform for iOS and Android apps. Find Gabriel on X and on LinkedIn.💲Nico Wittenborn is Founder of Adjacent, an early-stage VC firm. Find Nico on X and on LinkedIn.😺Jens-Fabian Goetzmann is Head of Product at RevenueCatLinks & ResourcesThese aren’t the only concessions Apple has recently had to make. Earlier this month, the Supreme Court ordered that Apple needed to allow developers to link to alternative payment methods in the US. Read more about what those changes mean.On the RevenueCat blog, we’ve written up an overview of this podcast and included additional details that weren’t covered on the podcast and/or have come to light since the recording.Episode Highlights[2:31] What is the Digital Markets Act (DMA)? It’s a series of directives set by the EU that aim to limit the dominance of large tech platforms, dubbed “gatekeepers” (of which Apple and Google are a part), and provide more choices to developers and end-users.  [10:34] The principal decision that developers need to make in response to Apple’s changes is: do we switch to the new terms or remain on the old? Right now, there is no indication that it’s a two-way door. [13:34] When opting into the new terms, there are effectively four separate models: stay distributing through the App Store using Apple’s IAPs; stay distributing through the App Store but use alternative payment providers; distribute instead on a third-party marketplace using alternative payments; or distribute on both the App Store and third-party marketplaces. [15:47] The Core Technology Fee (CTF), in the new terms, charges developers €0.50 per first annual app install on installs above the 1M threshold. This includes first annual reinstalls and updates, and it’s the CTF that is fundamentally making the economics of new terms unviable for most developers. [30:24] Why haven’t third-party marketplaces taken off on Android? It’s probably down to the size of the opportunity. Most apps, even if they’re multiplatform, make most of their money on iOS. Now that the possibility of third-party marketplaces is available on the most profitable platform, it suddenly becomes worth looking into.[41:41] There are instances where creating a third-party marketplace would be financially beneficial, such as a premium game distribution platform — higher-priced games ($20+) would negate the disadvantages shown by the CTF. [47:03] Unless things change, 99% of developers should probably not switch to the new terms. At best, it’s a bad idea, at worst it’s a huge distraction with the risk of owing Apple more in fees than revenue generated. There is a small subset of apps that could benefit, but those apps know who they are, and they’ll find a way to test the waters and mitigate the risk involved.  [52:48] Another opportunity is the 600 new APIs that Apple is making available. It’s too early to say what that opportunity will look like, but there are likely to be some innovative third-party applications to come out of it.  

On the podcast: The strategic pitfalls in modeling Total Addressable Market, how freemium should work, and why Surfline’s current success was actually 38 years in the making.Top Takeaways:🎯SAM not TAM — The total addressable market (TAM) provides an overview of the market's potential size, but it's too general for strategic purposes. The serviceable addressable market (SAM) more accurately reflects the market portion you can realistically capture.$ Understanding Price Sensitivity — Price sensitivity involves three key elements: Purchasing power (your market's ability to buy), commitment (likelihood of investing in your app), and value proposition (the value your app offers).⚖️The Freemium Balance — Success in freemium models hinges on balancing increased conversions with retaining free users. If prioritizing one over the other becomes necessary, focus on retention to allow time for app improvements.📈Growing Freemium Conversion Rates — A small percentage of free users convert to premium. The strength of freemium lies in its potential for increased conversion rates as your app improves and retains free users over time.🤝Monetizing Through Partnerships — For free users, displaying ads can monetize the audience that may not convert. For premium users, focus on partnerships offering exclusive deals or benefits to enhance value and average revenue per user (ARPU).About Guest:👨‍💻 Vice President of Strategy, Business Development, and Analytics at Surfline, an app that provides surfers updates on current wave conditions.🏄 An avid surfer himself, Paul joined the Surfline team because he was passionate about the product.💡 “The biggest issue that I see with most companies that are going out to market and putting together their commercial strategy is they'll use TAM and they'll model everything off of that… But in reality… it's really important to figure out what the serviceable addressable market is.”👋  LinkedIn🏄‍♂️ Check out SurflineEpisode Highlights:[4:11] The 38-year-old startup: Surfline was originally founded as a 1-800 phone number in 1985 and added consumer subscriptions in 2001 (before Netflix did!).[5:57] When TAM fails: Total addressable market (TAM) is an unrealistic number for modeling the number of users you’re likely to get — instead, calculate the serviceable addressable market (SAM).[14:46] Different approaches to TAM: You can calculate TAM from the top down or bottom up, whichever makes more sense for your business.[19:04] The formula for price sensitivity: To effectively price your app, you need to understand (1) your users’ purchasing power, (2) your users’ level of commitment, and (3) the strength of your value proposition.[24:40] Keeping the “free” in freemium: Remember to balance conversions with free user retention — it’s much easier to convert existing free users than it is to acquire brand-new users.[37:48] Ads for all: Consider partnering with relevant brands to provide special offers to further monetize your paid subscribers.

On the podcast: Scaling to $5M in ARR on paid ads, positive and negative results from 121 A/B tests, and why they still haven’t built an Android app. 💡 The Power of a Single Metric: Concentrating on just one key metric can be remarkably effective. In the early stages, it's common to take on too much. By zeroing in on a solitary metric, it becomes simpler to iterate and conduct large-scale testing.👀 Subscriptions as a Market Fit Gauge: The subscription model acts as a litmus test for your app's value. Gating access early and observing if users are willing to pay offers clear evidence of your app's worth.💬 Flexibility in Attribution Methods: There's no one-size-fits-all approach to attribution. Various apps adopt diverse strategies. Often, straightforward methods like asking users about their discovery path during onboarding can be the most reliable.🤳🏼 Prioritizing Creativity in Paid Marketing: If your strategy leans heavily on paid marketing, expect to dedicate at least 80% of your efforts to crafting creative content. For smaller teams, collaborating with content creators and influencers can be an effective strategy for scaling. 📱 Choosing a Single Platform for Initial Launch: Easing early-stage challenges is feasible by focusing on a single platform. Many startups overextend by launching on multiple platforms simultaneously. Opting for a single platform, such as iOS, allows you to concentrate your limited resources on achieving initial milestones before considering a broader launch.About Guest:👨‍💻 Founder and CEO of Opal, an app that helps users limit their screen time and find focus.📱 Even though iOS includes screen time management tools, Kenneth and his team believed they could improve the experience – and that users would pay for it.💡 “Essentially, if you get people to pay for your products… that's a pretty strong signal that you have something pretty valuable.”👋  LinkedInLinks & Resources:Connect with Kenneth via LinkedInCheck out Opal: https://www.opal.so/ X: https://twitter.com/kschlenker Episode Highlights:[1:09] A three-phase approach: How the Opal team tackled building a subscription business for a screen time management app.[4:54] When ad spend is worth it: Opal implemented paid marketing from the beginning – and it paid off.[10:44] Attribution made easy: Sometimes the simplest method of finding out where users came from – just asking them! – is the most useful.[13:08] Contracting creatives: Consider hiring independent contractors who care about your mission to build your ad content.[17:22] From premium to freemium: Many apps (like Duolingo) start out free, then add paid subscriptions later. Opal is doing the opposite.[25:53] Work smarter, not harder: Releasing your app on a single platform (instead of iOS, Mac, web, and Android all at once) can save your team a lot of time and money.[30:07] Lessons from 121 A/B tests: Prioritize the bigger swings that will significantly increase your uplift early on.

On the podcast: How to pitch your app to the press, the importance of focusing on differentiation, and why customizing your pitch to an individual writer is so much more effective.Top Takeaways:PR for user acquisition (UA) is best suited for acquiring very specific users. If you’re looking for big numbers then there are better channels to use. But PR allows you to pinpoint your UA to reach smaller, higher-intent audiences, such as early adopters or power users, who help you fulfill a particular goal.When working with PR agencies or consultants, know what kind of outcome you’re after. For apps that just want to reach a wide audience, a firm focused more on outreach at scale might be sufficient. But most apps will benefit more from a strategist who will help craft deep meaningful stories over the long-term.When pitching, think about the writer, not just the publication. Find the writer who will have the greatest personal interest in your story — not only will your pitch success rate be higher, but the subsequent write-up will be much more meaningful and useful to you down the road. Keep your email pitch brief and your press-kit comprehensive. Use the subject line and body copy to highlight uniqueness; feel free to use images but keep it brief. Your press kit, however, should provide enough detail for the journalist to write their story out-of-the-box — but don’t go as far as to write it yourself.To effectively pitch your app to TechCrunch, specifically, focus on what sets your app apart. A well-executed idea with quality design is just the starting point. Elevate your pitch by highlighting unique features and differentiation. Adding personal stories can further enhance the appeal and depth of your pitch.About Guest:👨‍💻 Former Editor-in-Chief of TechCrunch.✍️ With over 14 years of experience as a tech journalist, Matthew is an expert in the art of the pitch.💡 “Those stories tend to be the most potent, valuable, and interesting long term, especially for early-stage companies. You convert somebody into a believer, a believer in the thing that you’re doing, the thing that you’re trying to accomplish, the mission that you have. And those writers will become sort of chroniclers of your progress over time. If you’re able to capture one or two of those [writers] ... to get into the minds and hearts of individual writers at a publication, it’s so much more valuable than, ‘Oh, we got covered by Publication X.’”👋  LinkedInLinks & Resources:Connect with Matthew via LinkedInCheck out TechCrunch - https://techcrunch.com/ Episode Highlights:[1:12] Pitch perfect: How to pitch your app to a tech reporter in a cold email (that they’ll actually read).[14:01] Stand out from the crowd: A competitor’s downtime or failure may be a good opportunity to market your app, but it isn’t enough — you need to highlight your app’s differentiating features, too.[18:05] Know your audience: Choose not only the right publication but also the right reporter to write about your app.[26:41] Broad versus targeted UA: Getting your app featured in a publication like TechCrunch can help you acquire a highly interested group of users (early adopters, power users, and people who will send you feedback).[38:12] The big leagues: What TechCrunch is looking for in a pitch.[45:15] To PR or not to PR?: Whether or not you should work with a PR firm depends on your app.[48:18] The whole kit and caboodle: Create a press kit that makes it easy for a journalist to tell your app’s story.

On the podcast: Phil's Subscription Value Loop framework, what it means to create robust value for customers, and why A/B testing shouldn't be your first step in price optimization.Top Takeaways:📈Quantitative growth models can help inform your growth strategy. These models are built around key user actions and growth loops incorporating variables like acquisition, retention, and monetization. They serve not just to align the company around common growth objectives but also as a tool to identify strategic leverage points for driving user and revenue growth.📲The subscription value loop can model successful consumer subscription apps. This loop, devised by Phil Carter, is a framework for consumer subscription apps that focuses on value creation, delivery, and capture. It identifies the most impactful areas to allocate resources, aiding in decision-making for product development and marketing strategies. It emphasizes the importance of balancing value creation for the user with the business's need to capture value, ensuring a sustainable and efficient growth model.🔁The 4Rs of value creation — robust, rapid, repeatable, remarkable — emphasize creating a product that solves real customer problems with strong product market fit, delivering value quickly, ensuring long-term engagement and value through repeatable benefits, and being compelling enough to spark word-of-mouth promotion. This framework guides in developing products that not only meet immediate user needs but also maintain their relevance and appeal over time.💲Value delivery is efficiently connecting users to your valuable product. The playbook of relying on paid marketing to acquire users no longer works, due to increased app store competition and reduced efficiencies caused by ATT. The healthiest subscription app businesses are built on a robust organic acquisition strategy as a foundation, where paid ads are supplementary.🎯The 5Ps of value capture — paywall, pricing & packaging, payments, promotions — focus on the strategic elements crucial for monetizing a subscription app. Paywall strategies should, as well as adopt general best practices, be tightly aligned with the nature of the app; pricing & packaging perhaps offer the greatest leverage for later-stage apps; payments is about an awareness of alternative payment methods and ensuring you have a clear and transparent payment flow; and promotions should be thoughtful and targeted.About Guest:👨‍💻Founder and CEO of Elemental Growth, an advising consultancy focused on helping app businesses unlock their potential.🔁 Phil developed the Subscription Value Loop, a framework for understanding how to maximize growth in consumer app businesses.💡 “If you don't have a repeatable value prop that can sustain long-term retention, and your primary growth loop is paid ads, that's where you see a graveyard of companies that have just completely failed.”👋  LinkedInLinks & Resources:Connect with Phil via LinkedInCheck out his website - www.philgcarter.comFind Phil on X: @philgcarterCheck out his Consumer Subscription Growth CourseCompanies Phil has helped:Quizlet (https://www.quizlet.com/)Faire (https://www.faire.com/)Ibotta (https://www.ibotta.com/)Matter (https://hq.getmatter.com/)Save My Exams (https://www.savemyexams.com/)uDocz (https://www.udocz.com/)Knowunity (https://www.knowunity.com/)Rise (https://www.risescience.com/)Episode Highlights:[0:44] From consultant to growth guru: Phil’s journey into the subscription growth world began with mission-driven app businesses like Quizlet.[5:25] What you need to know to grow: Any quantitative growth model will be “wrong”… but you’ll learn so much building one, you should still do it.[8:30] The Subscription Value Loop: A framework for identifying product-market fit, building a remarkable solution, and investing profits into shoring up your competitive advantage.[13:48] The 40% rule: Determine product-market fit by how disappointed customers would be if they could no longer use your app.[23:05] Perfecting the elevator pitch: A great app onboarding experience is snappy, immersive, and packs a punch.[33:32] Avoid churn: Build repeatable experiences designed to bring users back again and again.[38:24] Go viral: Find out how to get and keep your users talking.[45:37] Organic is healthier: In today’s crowded (and post-ATT) app stores, paid ads can’t realistically be your primary growth lever.[50:22] Keep the engine running: Balancing how much value you capture versus provide can be a challenge — especially when it comes to free users.[1:11:12] The price is right: How to determine the optimal packaging and pricing for your app.

On the podcast: Profitably scaling TikTok ads, price optimization, and what the team learned from burning hundreds of thousands of dollars on Instagram ads.Top Takeaways📈 Use Micro-Influencers for Early Growth: Niche influencers with between 10k-100k followers provide a direct source to a highly relevant audience. Ladder incentivized Instagram influencers, while the app was in a very early stage, by offering a revenue share; this reinforced the collaborative nature of the partnership and made it financially viable for Ladder. (00:02:39)💲Adapt Your Pricing Based on Your Core User: Be adaptable with your pricing model based on customer research and feedback. Ladder shifted from a higher price point to a lower one as they learnt more about what value proposition was for their core users. To reach this conclusion, they surveyed their users and analyzed the data using Van Westendorp's pricing analysis. (00:19:36)🕺🏽Maximize TikTok by Tailoring Your Content: Whereas on Instagram you’re gradually building up an audience, on TikTok you should assume posts are reaching a unique audience every time. This means content on TikTok needs to be made for TikTok — it needs to either entertain or educate, edited in the TikTok style, and should work in isolation without prior knowledge. (00:41:04)🕸️Using a Web Funnel to Optimize Ad Spend: Ladder efficiently targets the right TikTok audience by directing them to a web quiz. This strategy quickly reveals user preferences, bypassing longer conversion funnels. By embedding pixels in quiz questions, they gain real-time insights into ad performance, enabling rapid optimization of ad spend. (00:49:38)🪜 Building a Retention Mechanism within the App: By building your product around retention metrics, you’ll naturally build a retentive product. For Ladder, its use of team chats are wildly popular, creating accountability and motivation in its users. And because these social elements drive so much consistency and retention, they work hard on driving users to these chats as quickly as possible. (01:04:49)About Greg Stewart📱CEO and Founder of Ladder, a fitness app dedicated to providing the world's best strength training plan from the world's best coaches, every single day.💪 Greg took Ladder from zero to a million dollars in ARR with a zealous early focus on product iteration.💡 “As a consumer business, I have learned that there is no muscle more important than growth — investing in growth, product-side growth, [and] retention. To have those learnings and that dial being controlled outside the building now makes no sense whatsoever to me.”👋 LinkedIn | X, formerly known as TwitterLinks & Resources‣ Connect with Greg via LinkedIn‣ Connect with Greg on X‣ Join Ladder‣ Ladder on XEpisode Highlights[0:54] Covid obstacles: Ladder launched during the pandemic but was initially geared toward gym goers. Early UA wasn’t about focus on revenue, but on product iteration to validate product-market fit.[4:35] Loyal followings: Instagram microinfluencers were a key part of Ladder’s early strategy for driving UA — aiming for “perfect alignment” with fitness coaches.[8:34] Onboarding: Ladder had a specific method for recommending programming based on lead source.[12:41] From influencer to team member: The right partners were a fundamental part of Ladder’s success, not as a creator or tool-based platform but as a consumer business.[16:46] Hardcore product iteration: Greg and his team built a set of tools for coaches after they hit a million dollars in ARR.[22:54] Honest ad lessons: Instead of focusing on ad optimization and efficiency, Ladder asked how to tell the right stories to the right people.[24:40] Decreasing price: The team went deep on analysis before lowering the price, with a single-minded commitment to Ladder as a customer-based business.[30:35] New Year’s resolutions: A lack of growth following their best month ever mobilized Ladder to create a framework leading to effective growth loops.[34:07] TikTok tactics: With diminishing returns from their Instagram efforts, Greg and his team decided to forge a new path via TikTok, which ultimately paid off.[39:20] Money where your mouth is: “Organic is the best indication of winning content,” Greg says. But engaging content needs an effective CTA. The roundabout but telling answer is to understand your customer and provide value rather than paying too much attention to acquisition or monetization.[48:29] CTAs that work: To reel them in, be upfront and direct to customers — and offer verifiable results.[49:56] Hacking algorithms: Web quizzes are winners for identifying buyer personas, driving a critical move for managing spend.[57:05] Bye-bye, LTV:CAC: Payback period is much easier to grapple with than variables that are out of the control of the team, helping Ladder to iterate on its annual offering thanks to a good handle on retention.[1:05:06] High retention: Relentless focus on the customer’s view and experience is the key to driving UA and retention.[1:14:56] Skeptical prerogative: Rather than building copycats and raising money, ensure there’s a clear differentiator around which the entire business is built. That way lies growth and scaling.