Interview | Polarities of Type with Dr. Jerry Wagner

Here’s Part 2 of our Season Finale: Revisiting Ego & Essence. To end our season, we have a deep and meaningful conversation with enneagram legends Russ Hudson and Mario Sikora on these often used, often misunderstood concepts. Lee Fields joins the Fathoms crew for this conversation, which always makes us better. [2:00] How can we move forward with these terms despite the issues? [13:05] Ego & Essence as bypassing[19:05] It’s about the process, not a destination[24:00] Individuality, Mutuality, & Unity in relation to ego and essence[31:35] Russ’ and Mario’s closing remarks for people using the enneagram[35:40] The Fathoms Cohosts provide their initial reactions to the conversation[45:05] How we’ll use the terms “ego” & “essence” moving forward[60:00] Abram shares a story[1:01:00] Linz hands out podcast awards to the guys[1:05:30] Why we do this podcast—Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

It’s here! Part 1 of our season finale: Revisiting Ego & Essence. To end our season, we have a deep and meaningful conversation with enneagram legends Russ Hudson and Mario Sikora on these often used, often misunderstood concepts. Lee Fields joins the Fathoms crew for this conversation, which always makes us better. [1:00] A quick recap of this season[5:30] We talk about (and cringe a bit) our Season 1 episode on Ego & Essence[12:30] Lindsey’s thoughts about the first episode as a listener[14:15] Our thoughts behind ending the season with the topic of Ego & Essence[18:50] Some tips listening to this conversation with Russ & Mario[23:00] Our conversation with Russ & Mario begins[25:15] What’s the conversation we need to have today about ego & essence? [27:45] Having beginner’s mind with ego & essence?[28:50] Russ & Mario’s first meeting…and first impressions![30:45] Their common fascination with zombies[32:50] What Russ and Mario admire about each other’s enneagram work[35:45] Russ and Mario’s definition of “ego” and “essence”[45:00] Examples of how they’ve changed their minds on ego and essence[55:30] How Mario interprets Russ’ view of ego and essence[1:00:00] Russ on “essence”[1:08:00] Mario’s problems with the term “essence”[1:11:45] Why are still using these words in these ways?[1:18:45] Lindsey pushes back a bitStay tuned for Part 2 of our conversation with Russ & Mario next week! —Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

Today we debrief our three-episode series on trauma. If you haven’t listened to those interviews with Sharon K. Ball, Dr. B, and Miles Adcox, be sure to check them out! We also talk about our next episode, where we revisit the concepts of ego and essence. In that episode we’re joined by enneagram legends Mario Sikora and Russ Hudson! [2:00] Reflecting on our conversation with Sharon K. Ball, including her 3 m’s: movement, meaningful connections, mindfulness[5:20] Reflecting on our conversation with Dr. B, including “resilience is not random.”[14:00] Reflecting on our conversation with Miles Adcox, including his thoughts on projection between therapist and client[19:40] Setting up our next episode, revisiting Ego and Essence. What we still think, how we’ve changed our views, etc. —Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

Today we finish our series of conversations on trauma and personhood with Miles Adcox. He is the Chairman and Owner of Onsite, an internationally-known emotional wellness lifestyle brand that delivers life-changing personal growth workshops, digital mental health master classes, emotionally smart leadership retreats, and residential emotional wellness and trauma treatment. Miles’ work at Onsite has been featured on 20/20, Good Morning America, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Dr. Phil Show, The Doctors, People, Billboard, Marie Claire, and NOW FATHOMS | AN ENNEAGRAM PODCAST! [1:45] Lightning round questions to get to know Miles[7:50] What is mental health and emotional wellness?[10:00] How does Miles approach his work amid the rise of pop psychology?[17:00] Miles’ cautions regarding the pitfalls of self-help/personal development[21:00] On “crescendo culture” and the success of Onsite[27:15] Miles’ talks about Internal Family Systems theory[30:05] Some practical advice: The 20/10/5 list[33:30] On clean and dirty pain[42:10] What should be in our “trauma kit”? [48:30] Miles’ own experience as a father[56:15] A current challenge Miles is facing[58:30] What Miles has to say to mental health professionals and other helpersFollow Miles at www.milesadcox.com // www.experienceonsite.com  —Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

We continue our series on trauma and personhood with another conversation with Dr. Kristin Beasley. Dr. B is a clinical psychologist who specializes in trauma and early childhood development. Dr. B helps us clarify terms such as “victim” and “victimhood.” She provides practical insight on how to more compassionately work with those who have experienced trauma and is a wealth of wisdom on cultivating resilience. [1:00] What is victimhood? [3:40] The difference between states and. traits[9:20] Resilience is not random[10:00] A more compassionate response[14:50] On true Victim/victimhood and the limits of the terms[23:40] For those who struggle to acknowledge their victimhood[33:00] Dr. B’s problem with the “hood” in “victimhood”[37:30] Resilience starts in the front end of life[38:30] If Dr. B were president…[42:15] Developing resilience and respecting those who struggle[55:45] What we can do to cultivate resilience (in ourselves and in those we help)Follow Dr B’s work: https://www.drbconnections.com/ [trauma-informed care and resilience training!]—Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

In this first episode on trauma, we interview Sharon K. Ball. Licensed therapist and enneagram professional who specializes in trauma and the enneagram. Sharon is the author of Reclaiming You: Using the Enneagram to Move from Trauma to Resilience. [1:10] Abram asks Sharon for her “top strength in her Myers-briggs finder” (?)[2:00] Clarifying some terms: trauma and resilience[4:15] The 4 Types of Trauma: Chronic, Insidious, Acute, & Complex[9:30] Big T vs. little t trauma[12:00] How important is it to label one’s type of trauma?[16:10] The difference between a stressful experience and a traumatic one[22:30] On being trauma informed…and not reducing people to a type[27:40] Finding specific practices for our type[29:45] The triad of resilience/trauma resolution[33:00] The difference between an enneagram type as a coping strategy vs. a trauma response. [36:20] How knowing your type can engage your trauma work[39:05] How can we honor each other and arrive at a greater sense of unity? Follow Sharon’s work: @sharonkball // www.ninepaths.com—Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

In this episode, we reflect upon our recent conversation with singer/songwriter Andy Squyres. If you haven't listened to that episode, go check it out and then come back and reflect with us. We look forward to our next topic, trauma and personhood. Andy’s Instagram post that inspired our conversation: https://www.instagram.com/p/CgUkgrYOn6M/ Follow Andy’s work at https://andysquyres.com/ and listen to his music! —Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

In this episode, we’re joined by singer/songwriter Andy Squyres (or “song doula” to Linz). Andy is a brilliant creative and a deep thinker who challenges our assumptions about the enneagram and the broader self help world. Andy is familiar with the enneagram but by no means a practitioner. He’s the perfect guest to share much needed perspective about this work we care about so much. His observations and critiques are important for all who use the enneagram. Stick around to the end of this episode, where Andy reads an Instagram post he wrote that inspired our conversation. [2:00] Creek sets up the conversation on challenging our labels and identities with compassion & Andy’s role as a critic[5:45] Universal ache and faith deconstruction[10:15] On the tension of pursuing redemption and when to draw boundaries[18:00] Andy’s critiques and observations of the self help community[24:15] On the perils of the enneagram’s popularity[27:30] Our inability to hold multiple possibilities at the same time[30:00] On the benefits of being on the outskirts of the enneagram world. [32:00] On the tension of personal growth and learning to appreciate what simply is[39:50] Subversion vs. aggression in challenging assumptions[51:00] On being authenticAndy’s Instagram post that inspired this conversation: https://www.instagram.com/p/CgUkgrYOn6M/ Follow Andy’s work at https://andysquyres.com/ and listen to his music! —Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

Wrapping up our mini-series on aging and personhood, the Fathoms hosts reflect upon our episodes with the wonderful and wise Clare Loughrige. They also look ahead to our upcoming conversation with poet/musician Andy Squyres, who has some major and important critiques of the enneagram. Join our Marco Polo Sharecast: https://onmarcopolo.com/sharecast/dIT4N10HbBKn—Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

In this episode, we have the second of our 2 part conversation with enneagram author and teacher Clare Loughrige. Lindsey talks with Clare about the aging process and how it impacts the dynamics of personhood, especially the “Third Act” of life. Stick around to the end of this one, as Clare provides a specific encouragement for each type and a profound meditation on our futures. [0:40] The most productive years of our lives…it’s later than you think[6:05] On fear about growing older[16:40] Your enneagram type’s various expressions in different seasons of life[22:00] The wisdom and power of wrinkles to free people[25:00] The biases against aging[29:30] An encouragement for each enneagram type in the third act of life[37:30] Clare leads us through a meditation for our futures . . . our third acts. Follow Claire’s work: scottandclareloughrige.org. And buy her books! —Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm