Ep. 49 Making Great Things Happen with Guests Brian Sessler & Jane Shaffer of Sessler Companies

Episode 102 – From Zero To Millions; Growth in Family Business  Matt McCauley* CEO of LogoBrands joins us on this episode of The Family Biz Show. He discusses his beginnings in the business, from starting in a garage to growing into a multi-million dollar company. He also doesn’t shy away from talking about the challenges of working with family members and the transition from father to son in the business. Matt also talks about the importance of licensing and expanding into new product categories, the significance of maintaining company culture and core values, as well as the role of faith in his business.   OUR GUEST  MATT MCCAULEY*  Founder and CEO of LogoBrands, the #1 hard goods / non-apparel provider of licensed goods (NFL, NCAA, MLB, NBA, NHL, MLS, etc).  LogoBrands was started in a garage with my parents in 1999 with just the folding bag chair, and now we offer hundreds of product lines that range from chairs, shelters, coolers, drinkware, seating, blankets, and much more.  We have about 200 team members in the USA, China and Vietnam, but headquartered in Franklin, TN (just south of Nashville).    Married with 2 boys (11 & 13) who play all the different sports, so I’m always busy watching my boy’s games when not watching games for work.  -----  If you’re a family business or a family business consultant and want to be on the show, share your story and help other family businesses, send us an email to [email protected] or visit us at The Family Biz Show | Family Business Podcast With Michael Palumbos (familywealthandlegacy.com) to fill out our web form!  CRN-6486634-031824  *not affiliated with Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp.  Michael Palumbos is a registered representative of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Securities and investment advisory services offered through Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp., a broker/dealer (member SIPC) and registered investment advisor. Insurance offered through Lincoln affiliates and other fine companies. Family Wealth & Legacy, LLC is not an affiliate of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. and its representatives do not provide legal or tax advice. You may want to consult a legal or tax advisor regarding any legal or tax information as it relates to your personal circumstances.   

Episode 101 – Cobbler Nights & Continuity Plans  Join us and guest Robin Hall* President of VARC Solutions as we discussed the challenges and benefits of involving family members in the business, the importance of setting boundaries, and the process of growing the company and hiring employees. Robin also shares her insights on creating a business continuity plan, implementing dashboards and metrics, and the value of participating in business organizations like Vistage.   OUR GUEST  ROBIN HALL*  Robin Hall is the President and Principal Consultant at VARC Solutions in Friendswood, Texas, specializing in QuickBooks and Quick Base training and consulting.  VARC’s focus is on taking small and large business clients alike to the next level and teaching them to be self-sufficient within their businesses.    Robin has been a QuickBooks ProAdvisor since 1999 (Advanced Certified since 2007), a QuickBooks Solution Provider since 2006, and a Certified Quick Base developer since 2007.    Robin’s achievements include being named one of CPA Practice Advisor’s 2016 Most Powerful Women in Accounting, Insightful Accountant’s 2016 QuickBooks ProAdvisor Top Trainer/Writer as well as listed as one of their Top 100 ProAdvisors from 2014 – 2022, and Intuit’s 2016 Sales Excellence Award. She received the 2017 Quick Base Services MVP award and the 2020 Quick Base Virtual Hackathon – First Place for Partners.  In 2022 VARC Solutions became a member of the Intuit QSP Million Dollar Club, having sales of Intuit products in excess of one million dollars.  -----  If you’re a family business or a family business consultant and want to be on the show, share your story and help other family businesses, send us an email to [email protected] or visit us at The Family Biz Show | Family Business Podcast With Michael Palumbos (familywealthandlegacy.com) to fill out our web form!  CRN- 6486551-031824  *not affiliated with Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp.  Michael Palumbos is a registered representative of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Securities and investment advisory services offered through Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp., a broker/dealer (member SIPC) and registered investment advisor. Insurance offered through Lincoln affiliates and other fine companies. Family Wealth & Legacy, LLC is not an affiliate of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. and its representatives do not provide legal or tax advice. You may want to consult a legal or tax advisor regarding any legal or tax information as it relates to your personal circumstances. 

Episode 100 - Resilience & Rhythm in Rochester Family Business  In this special 100th episode, Marc Iacona shares his journey in the family business, Simcona Electronics, and the evolution of the company from a distributor to a manufacturer. He discusses the challenges and growth of the business, as well as the transition from the first to the second generation. Marc also talks about the process of buying out his partners and becoming the sole owner of the company, the genesis of the Rochester Jazz Fest and how he manages both organizations. Don’t miss this one and share it with all who love our Roc City!  ----  If you’re a family business or a family business consultant and want to be on the show, share your story and help other family businesses, send us an email to [email protected] or visit us at The Family Biz Show | Family Business Podcast With Michael Palumbos (familywealthandlegacy.com) to fill out our web form!  CRN-6449354-030124  *not affiliated with Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp.  Michael Palumbos is a registered representative of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Securities and investment advisory services offered through Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp., a broker/dealer (member SIPC) and registered investment advisor. Insurance offered through Lincoln affiliates and other fine companies. Family Wealth & Legacy, LLC is not an affiliate of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. and its representatives do not provide legal or tax advice. You may want to consult a legal or tax advisor regarding any legal or tax information as it relates to your personal circumstances. 

Episode 99. Letting Go to Grow Your Family Business In this episode, co-owner of CosmosCorp Derrik Kassebaum shares his unique story of entering the family business, the history of it and how “letting go” was what ultimately revolutionized his  business and his life. He also highlights the significance of having a clear core purpose and  values in guiding the business, the importance of communication and humility and about the  learning and growth opportunities in family business, emphasizing the impact of books like  'Good to Great' and 'How the Mighty Fall’ and the development of his book “He Will  Make a Way”. Don’t miss this inspiring episode to get an idea of how your company can make  positive change every single day – starting with you! Please consider sharing this episode with  other family business owners. OUR GUEST DERRIK KASSEBAUM* Derrik has been married to Laura for 28 years & have two daughters. Derrik is Co-Owner of  three different companies including Cosmos Corporation, which is a family owned  manufacturing company that makes Health and Wellness products in the pet industry. Since  1980 the Kassebaum family have worked to create a trusted pet brand throughout the USA and  73 other countries. Derrik has traveled the world building multiple brands and overseeing the  sales of the company since 1989.  Derrik is also a published author of the book “Live And Let Go - Releasing your hold to pursue  Gods purpose”. In this book, Derrik tells the stories of the things that he learned he needed to  let go of to step into his full purpose of the life God had for him to live. The family’s nonprofit organization, GOLI (Gifts Of Love International) that was started by  Derrik’s parents, Don and Barbara Kassebaum. This family run organization oversees many  different works in Guatemala, Haiti and other parts of the world. In Guatemala GOLI oversees  Nino’s Amodas (a children home for abused Children), works directly with the care for over 65  churches, runs Gratia (an Accredited Pastoral Training Center), three years ago started CCI (a  nine month intensive young adult development program) and ministry work to government  officials. In Haiti GOLI oversees a work called Celebrate Jesus of Haiti that Feeds 800 children a  day, has a school of 325 students and a clinic that provides free medical care to children 7 and  younger among other things to help the people of Loganave Haiti.  Derrik currently sits on a few boards in the St. Louis area including the Barnes Jewish Children’s  Foundation of St. Charles County. BJCF helps people through the expense of medical care and  treatment. Derrik also works with many other ministries in the St. Louis area to help bring  unity, resource and Kingdom Culture to these ministries. If asked what his gifting is, he will tell  you that it is Envisioning Organizations, Connecting People and Encouraging individuals to  stretch the gifts that God has planted in them. ----- If you’re a family business or a family business consultant and want to be on the show, share  your story and help other family businesses, send us an email to  [email protected] or visit us at The Family Biz Show | Family Business Podcast  With Michael Palumbos (familywealthandlegacy.com) to fill out our web form! CRN-6205160-010824 *not affiliated with Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Michael Palumbos is a registered representative of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Securities  and investment advisory services offered through Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp., a  broker/dealer (member SIPC) and registered investment advisor. Insurance offered through  Lincoln affiliates and other fine companies. Family Wealth & Legacy, LLC is not an affiliate of  Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. and its representatives do not  provide legal or tax advice. You may want to consult a legal or tax advisor regarding any legal or  tax information as it relates to your personal circumstances

Ep 98. Adapting to Survive; How Businesses Can (and should) Utilize AI  In this episode, guest Anthony DeSimone of You’re The Expert Now talks about the use of AI, specifically ChatGPT, in family businesses. Anthony shares his background and journey to becoming an AI expert and they discuss the importance of AI in business and how family businesses can utilize ChatGPT to improve communication and productivity. They explore various use cases for ChatGPT, such as editing emails, generating social media content, and transcribing meetings and emphasize the need for businesses to embrace AI and stay ahead of the curve. Share this episode with EVERY family business owner you know!  OUR GUEST  ANTHONY DESIMONE*  I love small businesses and I love helping people accomplish their goals!  I enjoy the problems that business owners and executives have because I love playing a small role in helping them overcome their obstacles and accomplish more than they ever thought possible.  I am a CPA (certified public accountant) and a CMA (certified managerial accountant) and I have played the role of CFO, COO, President and trusted adviser in many small businesses over my 23 year career.    I began my accounting career at Deloitte and quickly realized that I hated auditing but I loved all those small businesses that I was performing the audit on.  After a few years, I left Deloitte, moving over to a Controller position in a small business and I never looked back!   I have a passion for "cleaning up" small businesses.  The more disorganized and dysfunctional, the better!  I enjoy creating a solid foundation for the business by adding cash flow forecasting, reliable, timely financial reporting, operational process, goals, mentoring and creating effective teams. Throughout the process of building the foundation, I educate the team (the owner and key employees) to understand the tools and techniques I implement to allow for continued success and a timely exit strategy for me.  I am an adjunct professor at the State University of New York at Buffalo and I also teach at the University at Buffalo Center for Entrepreneurial Leadership (CEL) which is a special class for owners of small businesses and high level executives to overcome business challenges, create new opportunities and develop meaningful connections within the business community.  -----  If you’re a family business or a family business consultant and want to be on the show, share your story and help other family businesses, send us an email to [email protected] or visit us at The Family Biz Show | Family Business Podcast With Michael Palumbos (familywealthandlegacy.com) to fill out our web form!  CRN-6205135-010824  *not affiliated with Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp.  Michael Palumbos is a registered representative of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Securities and investment advisory services offered through Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp., a broker/dealer (member SIPC) and registered investment advisor. Insurance offered through Lincoln affiliates and other fine companies. Family Wealth & Legacy, LLC is not an affiliate of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. and its representatives do not provide legal or tax advice. You may want to consult a legal or tax advisor regarding any legal or tax information as it relates to your personal circumstances.   

Episode 97. 200 Years of Sweet Treats and Survival in Family Business  In this episode, Janice Jucker of Three Brothers Bakery takes us on a fascinating journey, from the bakery's humble beginnings in Poland 200 years ago to its current status as a beloved Houston institution. She shares the inspiring story of her aunt Jenny, who saved her three brothers from the Nazis during World War II, and how these brothers later founded the bakery in Houston in 1949. We discuss the importance of understanding insurance policies and having proper coverage, as well as the need for cash reserves during a disaster. Janice shares her thoughts on the dynamics of family business succession plans, the search for retail space, and her top priorities for the next year. She highlights the importance of continuous learning and developing a strong business culture. Share this episode with those you know who might love any of these topics!  OUR GUEST  JANICE JUCKER*  Janice Jucker, co-owns Three Brothers Bakery with her husband, Bobby.  They like to say they are “memory makers who happen to be bakers®” because their family has been baking for almost 200 years, 74 in Houston, Texas.  Three Brothers Bakery was originally founded by Bobby’s father and 2 uncles after surviving the Holocaust.  Today Three Brothers Bakery has 4 locations and are currently working toward a fifth and employ approximately 75 wonderful people.  The Juckers call themselves the “king and queen of disasters” as they have survived 4 floods, a fire, a hurricane, pandemic and freeze and are  proud they were able to pay their employees even while closed.  In 2018 they were awarded the SBA Phoenix Award for Small Business Disaster Recovery and has used the accolade as a platform to advocate for disaster reforms that can help small businesses recover quickly after natural disasters.  Janice currently is on the board of the Houston Restaurant Association, NFIB Texas Leadership Council and National Vice Chair of Goldman Sachs 10000 Small Businesses Voices. Previously she was on the Advisory Board of the Holocaust Museum Houston, Susan G. Komen Houston and Hadassah Houston.  She is a breast cancer survivor and number 10 on her mother’s maternal line to have this type of cancer and encourages everyone to do their well-women checkups each year which includes mammograms and pap smears.  Janice graduated from the University of Texas at Austin and Masters from Oklahoma State University.  -----  If you’re a family business or a family business consultant and want to be on the show, share your story and help other family businesses, send us an email to [email protected] or visit us at The Family Biz Show | Family Business Podcast With Michael Palumbos (familywealthandlegacy.com) to fill out our web form!  CRN-6204746-010824  *not affiliated with Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp.  Michael Palumbos is a registered representative of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Securities and investment advisory services offered through Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp., a broker/dealer (member SIPC) and registered investment advisor. Insurance offered through Lincoln affiliates and other fine companies. Family Wealth & Legacy, LLC is not an affiliate of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. and its representatives do not provide legal or tax advice. You may want to consult a legal or tax advisor regarding any legal or tax information as it relates to your personal circumstances. 

Episode 96. A Legacy in Motion; Dylan’s Journey from Agriculture to Transportation  We had the pleasure of talking to Dylan Rexing*, CEO of Rexing Companies. We discussed the evolution of Dylan's family business from agriculture to transportation, the complexities of working with family, and the growth from a small team to a company with nearly 100 employees. Dylan shares his journey from reluctant bookkeeper to a CEO focused on serving his employees and the importance of hiring good people. We also explored the significance of culture, leadership development, and the use of business operating systems for growth, conflict resolution & generational transitions. Share this episode!  OUR GUEST  DYLAN REXING  Dylan Rexing currently serves as President and CEO of Rexing Companies, an Evansville-based network of family owned and operated companies specializing in the supply chain process.   Dylan is also the fifth generation in his family’s farm operations, where he grew up learning the value of hard work and financial responsibility while working on the farm.   Under Dylan’s leadership, Rexing Company’s logistics division, PFL Logistics, has earned recognition on the Inc 5000 Fastest Growing Private Companies for the past four years.  Rexing is a graduate of the University of Southern Indiana with a Bachelor of Science degree in accounting.  He serves as a Board member for the Boys & Girls Club, Evansville Regional Economic Partnership - Family Business Alliance Executive Member, EREP Transportation Committee and the Evansville Sports Commission.  He is also a member of the Vistage CEO Peer Advisory Group.  Dylan and his wife, Alexandra, reside in Newburgh, Indiana and enjoy volunteering at the Warrick County Humane Society, traveling with and being parents to Loretta and Eleanor and playing with their dog, Rosie.  -----  If you’re a family business or a family business consultant and want to be on the show, share your story and help other family businesses, send us an email to [email protected] or visit us at The Family Biz Show | Family Business Podcast With Michael Palumbos (familywealthandlegacy.com) to fill out our web form!  CRN-6050544-102523   *not affiliated with Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp.  Michael Palumbos is a registered representative of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Securities and investment advisory services offered through Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp., a broker/dealer (member SIPC) and registered investment advisor. Insurance offered through Lincoln affiliates and other fine companies. Family Wealth & Legacy, LLC is not an affiliate of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. and its representatives do not provide legal or tax advice. You may want to consult a legal or tax advisor regarding any legal or tax information as it relates to your personal circumstances. 

Ep 95 - Brewing Up Success: Turning Coffee into a Family Empire  In this episode of the Family Biz Show, we sat down with Lisa Smoot* from San Francisco Bay Coffee. Lisa, who is a regular listener of our podcasts on her incredible daily commute, shares the incredible journey of her family's business, from a bankrupt company to a thriving $200 million enterprise. Lisa opened up about her personal experiences of entering the family business and the challenges they faced along the way, the company's strong partnership with Costco and how it has contributed to their growth and her commitment to employee development and the significance of investing in their team members' growth and well-being.     OUR GUEST  LISA SMOOT*  Lisa is a second generation family member running a large vertically integrated coffee roasting business with operations in the U.S., Central America and  UK.  Her current role is CEO of San Francisco Bay Coffee Company. She oversees all aspects of her business from growing coffee to roasting coffee that is purchase in your local store. She has worked for our family business for 40 years in all aspects of the business.  Before taking on the role of CEO, she was in charge of private label.   Lisa currently sits on the Board of Directors for the Pacific Coast Coffee Association where she is the Chair of the Mentorship Committee. She is also a member of the National Coffee Association, Specialty Coffee Association, Vistage and Chief.  Lisa is a graduate of University of California Berkeley and lives in the Bay Area with her husband of 29 years and her 4 grown children.  -----  If you’re a family business or a family business consultant and want to be on the show, share your story and help other family businesses, send us an email to [email protected] or visit us at The Family Biz Show | Family Business Podcast With Michael Palumbos (familywealthandlegacy.com) to fill out our web form!  CRN-6050524-102523  *not affiliated with Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp.  Michael Palumbos is a registered representative of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Securities and investment advisory services offered through Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp., a broker/dealer (member SIPC) and registered investment advisor. Insurance offered through Lincoln affiliates and other fine companies. Family Wealth & Legacy, LLC is not an affiliate of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. and its representatives do not provide legal or tax advice. You may want to consult a legal or tax advisor regarding any legal or tax information as it relates to your personal circumstances. 

    Ep 94 - From Bricks to Community Engagement in a Multi-Generational Family Business    On this episode of The Family Biz Show, Andy Breuer from Hueber-Breuer Construction Company. Andy shares his journey of joining the family business and the company's 151-year legacy and we discuss the importance of maintaining a good reputation, the significance of company culture, and the role of managing a construction business. Andy highlights several community-oriented projects and the company's focus on sustainability, succession planning, leadership development, community involvement, and the challenges of running a construction business in New York State.   OUR GUEST  ANDREW BREUER* Andy Breuer, President of Hueber-Breuer Construction Co., Inc., represents the sixth generation of Central New York’s oldest, continuously operating construction company. Andy displayed an early interest in the family business and throughout his adolescence spent his summers immersed in Hueber-Breuer projects. He graduated from Emory University in 2000 and returned to Syracuse from Atlanta in 2002. Since that time, Andy has been at the helm of many projects for Hueber-Breuer, in the capacity of Project Manager, Project Executive, and now President of the 151-year-old business.  The origins of Hueber-Breuer date back to the Hueber family’s arrival as stone masons who immigrated from Europe and ultimately found work in Central New York with the construction and ongoing maintenance of the Erie Canal. The earliest records of Hueber Brothers performing as independent contractors date back to 1872, and the family has been consistently building and developing Central New York ever since! Today, Hueber-Breuer’s offices remain on the south side of Syracuse, within blocks of where they have been for nearly one hundred years. The roots of the family business in Syracuse run deep and remain central to the values, vision, and operations of the company. Andy leads Hueber-Breuer with an eye towards building on the legacy of his family through a culture of community, caring, and innovation.   Some of Hueber-Breuer’s recent projects delivered under Andy’s leadership include the Nexus Center, NYS Fairgrounds EXPO Center, the SUNY Poly Hilltop Residence Hall, the Lakeview Amphitheater, and the Destiny Embassy Suites Hotel. Hueber-Breuer consistently reaffirms their commitment to build to the benefit of both client and community; presently this includes the Syracuse Community Health Center project, which will bring a state-of-the art facility providing affordable healthcare to the south side of Syracuse. Also currently under construction is the revitalization of the Moyer Carriage Lofts, which will provide 128 quality, affordable housing units to the north side of the city.   Andy’s numerous charitable and philanthropic passions include recent terms as board president of both the Central New York Community Foundation and the Syracuse Area Landmark Theatre. When he’s not working, you can likely find him with his family enjoying live music or exploring the ski slopes, woods, or rivers of Central New York.  ---- If you’re a family business or a family business consultant and want to be on the show, share your story and help other family businesses, send us an email to [email protected] or visit us at The Family Biz Show | Family Business Podcast With Michael Palumbos (familywealthandlegacy.com) to fill out our web form!  CRN-6050488-102523  *not affiliated with Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp.  Michael Palumbos is a registered representative of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Securities and investment advisory services offered through Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp., a broker/dealer (member SIPC) and registered investment advisor. Insurance offered through Lincoln affiliates and other fine companies. Family Wealth & Legacy, LLC is not an affiliate of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. and its representatives do not provide legal or tax advice. You may want to consult a legal or tax advisor regarding any legal or tax information as it relates to your personal circumstances. 

Ep 93 - The White Brothers' Recipe for Family Business Resilience  In this episode of The Family Biz Show, we sat down to talk to twin brother owners Eric & Scott White of Denver Machine, a family business started by their great grandfather in 1910. The brothers share their journey into the business, their outside experiences, the company's growth and diversification into various industries, and the challenges they faced, including a severe recession and a lawsuit threat. The brothers also share their future priorities, the benefits of being part of a CEO roundtable group, and the importance of industry associations. Don’t miss this episode and share with other family business owners who might enjoy!  OUR GUESTS  ERIC WHITE*  Eric White, alongside his twin brother Scott, has co-owned Denver Machine Shop for over 20 years. Together, they expanded their business by acquiring three more companies, leading to a sixfold revenue growth since taking over from their parents.  Before venturing into entrepreneurship, Eric served as a Captain in the US Army Corps of Engineers for five years, including a deployment to Germany. He then worked in Caterpillar's Marketing Group for Large Mining Shovels for four years. Returning to Colorado, he managed airbag inflator production at Autoliv, Inc. Eric holds a Bachelor of Science and a Master of Science in Mining Engineering from the Colorado School of Mines and is proud to be an Eagle Scout. In his community involvement, Eric serves as a Board Member of American Legion Post 17 in Edgewater, Colorado. During his leisure time, he enjoys exploring destinations like Key West. He has been happily married for 30 years and has two accomplished adult children.  SCOTT WHITE*  Scott White has been co-owner of Denver Machine Shop, a fourth generation family business for the past 21 years with his twin brother Eric White.  Together, they have acquired three additional businesses and have grown the total revenue in their operations by six times since buying the company from their parents.  Previous to this, Scott worked for 13 years as a Manufacturing and Metallurgical Engineer for Caterpillar and at Autoliv.  Scott is a graduate of the Colorado School of Mines, a former officer in the Army Reserves where he served for 8 years, and an Eagle Scout.  He enjoys serving others through Rotary and his industry association, the National Machining and Tooling Assn.      -----  If you’re a family business or a family business consultant and want to be on the show, share your story and help other family businesses, send us an email to [email protected] or visit us at The Family Biz Show | Family Business Podcast With Michael Palumbos (familywealthandlegacy.com) to fill out our web form!  CRN-5972743-092523  *not affiliated with Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp.  Michael Palumbos is a registered representative of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Securities and investment advisory services offered through Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp., a broker/dealer (member SIPC) and registered investment advisor. Insurance offered through Lincoln affiliates and other fine companies. Family Wealth & Legacy, LLC is not an affiliate of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. and its representatives do not provide legal or tax advice. You may want to consult a legal or tax advisor regarding any legal or tax information as it relates to your personal circumstances.